Most Powerful Magic System

[The First Gem he/him]

Okay when I say most powerful I wasn't clear. I apologize on the part. What i mean what is the best magic system to complete tasks or allows opportunity to complete tasks. Killing someone, getting somewhere, making something. What's the average. of these criteria what one fits them the most. Someone said Awakening is the best average. Im starting to be convinced of this what do you guys think?

[The First Gem he/him]

3 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Absolutely the way I view it.  Pure investiture and the ability to replicate other systems I would say awakening is near the top... which is crazy since it is (as a system) only net neutral.  Given other systems that are net positive exist it could well be argued that investiture wise there are more powerful systems but those systems pull investiture from other sources to use it.  Breaths are innate and so limited that learning the upper limits is super challenging.  

The fact that the scholars were replicating (it would seem) other systems in their testing of commands says a lot about the limits of biochromatic breath.  Not that it isn't possible to replicate some other magics but that the correct command and imagery hasn't been seen or used.  Perhaps there is a command to mend the awakener and offer a form healing.   Perhaps there is a command to help someone fly... we saw the ribbons carry awakeners but it is not the same as gravitation or steel/ Iron allomancy.  I do think there is a so far unused strength in awakening in the form of draining color from other systems energy sources. 

As for the 10 surges.  All offer a powerful end positive result.  It is difficult to argue a end neutral or end negative system vs an end positive one except in how invested the users actually are.  One breath makes your average Nalthis citizen more invested and capable than any other base citizen from any other system.  A breath of stormlight makes the average squire more dangerous than that Nalthis person.  The only difference here is that everyone on Nalthis has access to that and they can invest in eachother where as Squires are even rare on Roshar.  

The biggest argument against awakening as a system is that to make the most powerful awakener you have to make 50000 drabs.  And if that godking gets killed in battle that single death might as well have been a kill worth half that in men. 

Someone with access to 10 surges would probably be in contention with the godking and a fullborn for the most powerful being in the cosmere.  I will say in terms of there always being a godking and not always being someone with access to 10 surges or a fullborn Nalthis at any given time likely has the single most powerful non shard being in the cosmere.  Limited by education on how to use it but the potential in Nalthis is on average always higher than other places.  The times someone has access to fullborn powers are more limited (although the bands could change that) but those powers still require outside fuel where the godkings do not.  Likewise the times there is access to all 10 surges on one person is far more limited than the godkings existence.  You could argue that a person with all 10 surges has access to infinite stormlight and I would have to submit that that being is the most powerful, however it is so rare that systemwide I don't know that it makes a difference as system as a whole.  

World vs world right now I think Nalthis has a really good shot in the numbers game... plus if every kill you make you can raise up the dead it could end up a zombie army vs everyone.  The minute nalthis falls behind they are in deep trouble though.  But so long as they keep numbers advantage they can really put the hurt on other systems.  

Amazing argument. I love this one alot. you explain the power of other systems and give a good argument on how it is and I agree. Awakening is currently the best but it could change and fall behind.

[SteelBagel]

12 hours ago, Frustration said:

Considering we aren't factoring for rarity just burn more Lerasium.

I wish to contest this statement in every possible way.

Gravitation allows you to remain in the air, and is much faster over short distances, as well as giving momentum to weapons. And transportation can act as teleportation, though whether Radiants can use it that way is up for debate.

 That's true but they are far faster and easier to use.

Every order except maybe Bondsmith has at least one surge they can use at a distance. Most of them going up to line of sight.

Division is ranged, Gravitation is ranged, progression is ranged, Abrasion effectively makes you ranged, Illumination moves at the speed of light, Transformation is ranged, Transportation is ranged, Cohesion is ranged and so on.

I still don’t think lerasium Allomancers are strong enough to compete with a high tier awakener or a skilled and unchained Bondsmith.

 

As for versatility, afawk most surges just let you do 2 things, whereas Awakening gives you a ton of stuff you can do, anything you can find the Command for.

 

As for mobility, gravitation is better in the air, and faster short range (maybe, we still don’t know enough about AonDor to say for sure. If you can create a reusable Aon ahead of time that teleports you 15 feet ahead everytime you use it, I think that’d put them somewhat equal.) 

Buf I was mostly considering Radiant surgebinding, in which Transportaion specifically takes you to the Cognitive Realm.  
 

its also true that cohesion and Tension are easier to use than forgery, but if we’re ignoring Rarity, I’m taking a Forger at their peak, with a bunch of premade SoulStamps, and skill in forging to equal Cohesion and Tension. 
 

man’s yeah, plenty of surges have range, but none have as much range as Awakening, which can work from the next country over if you have enough time for the Awakened object to get there.