teknopathetic he/him Posted July 26, 2022 Posted July 26, 2022 (edited) Now, I don't actually believe this, but I thought I would bring it up for discussion. I am still 100% with the Shallan theory, but I wanted to try exploring another possibility: Information About Lift Her mother died x years in the past. Lift says that her mother wasted away. Possibly about 3-5 Years ago. Lift says says she is 10 for the 3rd time in TWoK (so maybe 3 years of not changing?) Who know how long it took her to find the Nightwatcher after her Mother died and Lift left her city. LIft travelled to many places as an orphaned child "After her mother died, she’d been here. She’d been here dozens of times since, in cities all across the land. Places for forgotten children". Lift felt that her wish should be that she should never have to change or grow up Lift knew about and believed in the Nightwatcher. Maybe? Or accidentally found the Nightwatcher? Lift went to the Nightwatcher Cultivation took personal interest in Lift Lift expresses abilities not seen by anyone else Lift was specifically sent a spren to bond her (a spren did not decide to bond her based on compatibility) Nightblood takes a liking to Lift immediately. Information About Lift's Mom "When you were always busy, you didn’t have to think about stuff. Like how most people didn’t run off and leave when the whim struck them. Like how your mother had been so warm, and kindly, so ready to take care of everyone. It was incredible that anyone on Roshar should be as good to people as she’d been. She shouldn’t have had to die. Least, she should have had someone half as wonderful as she was to take care of her as she wasted away. Someone other than Lift, who was selfish, stupid. And lonely." Conjecture from Other Characters: Wyndle believes that Cultivation altered her to exist partially in in the Cognitive Realm. However, Wyndle is just assuming that this occurred because he knows of no other way for that to happen. He is unware that children of Returnedlike-entities may have special abilities innate to their identity. Coppermind: "the Ring viewed Lift's youth and her experience with the Old Magic as positive traits in a candidate.[3] Wyndle found that bonding with Lift was easier than expected[6] and speculated that the Old Magic had caused her to exist partially in the Cognitive Realm" This reminds me of Vivenna having a natural connection to the magic that makes Commanding easier. Maybe Lift has a similar aptitude. Questions Why would a little girl get it in her head that Not Ageing would be a reasonable wish? Did her mother not age? How does a little girl know about the Nightwatcher? How does A little girl get to or find the Nightwatcher? Why does Cultivation agree to give a little girl such a strange boon? Is Lift's Cognitive-Realm-Slippage even the boon? Are we just assuming that? Could Lift be somewhat like a Vivenna? Why are Cultivation spren so insistent on bonding her? Why does this little girl have a foot in the cognitive realm? Is Nightblood liking Lift so much supposed to remind us of Nightblood liking Vivenna so much? What is her boon and what is her curse? Possibilities Lift's affinity for the cognitive realm sure does remind me of Vivenna and other children of Cognitive entities. We assume that Cultivation "changed" Lift, but what if Lift's powers are because she is the daughter of a Returned-like entity? Edited October 6, 2022 by teknopathetic 1
alder24 Posted July 26, 2022 Posted July 26, 2022 We know Lift was in Rall Elorim for some time, and that's in Iri, and they know about Old Magic (Evi). That quote about her mother tells me that she looked after Lift, but when she felt ill, Lift did not do the same, as a selfish kid she ran away from responsibility, and maybe instead of facing grimm truth, she decided to be kid forever so noone would ever blame her for what's happened to her mother as "she is just a kid who don't know better". Also her mother "wasted away" so she was probably dying for prolonged time of some illness tying her to bed and as Returned are immune to ilnesses, Heralds would be too. But as this is quite literally the only thing we know about her past, that may be the possibility. But if her mother doesn't fit as a Herald, there is zero information about her father soo I'm betting on Nale!
Brgst13 Posted July 27, 2022 Posted July 27, 2022 6 hours ago, teknopathetic said: Questions Why would a little girl get it in her head that Not Ageing would be a reasonable wish? Did her mother not age? Her wish was to not change. She assumed that meant she would not age as a result.
Treamayne Posted July 27, 2022 Posted July 27, 2022 14 hours ago, alder24 said: maybe instead of facing grim truth, she decided to be kid forever so nobody would ever blame her for what's happened to her mother as "she is just a kid who don't know better". 8 hours ago, Brgst13 said: Her wish was to not change. She assumed that meant she would not age as a result. She is fairly explicit about her motivations in RoW (I-5) Spoiler “I asked not to change,” Lift whispered, opening her eyes. “I said, when everything else is going wrong, I want to be the same. I want to stay me. Not become someone else.” “Those are the exact words?” Wyndle asked. “Best I can remember.” “Hmm…” Wyndle said, snuggling down into his vines. “I believe that is too vague.” “I wasn’t! I told her. Make me so I don’t grow up.” “That is not what you said, mistress. And if I might be so bold—having spent a great deal of time around you—you are not an easy person to understand.” “I asked not to change! So why am I changing?” “You’re still you. Merely a bigger version.” She squeezed her eyes shut again. “Mistress,” Wyndle said. “Lift. Will you tell me why this bothers you so much? Everyone grows. Everyone changes.” “But I’m … I’m her little girl.” “Whose little girl?” he asked gently. “Your mother’s?” Lift nodded. Stupid. It sounded stupid and she was stupid. Mother was dead. That was that. Why hadn’t she said the correct words? Why hadn’t Cultivation just understood? Cultivation was supposed to be some sort of starvin’ god. It was her fault if a little girl came and begged for a promise, and the god deliberately misinterpreted and … And Lift liked who she was. Who she had been. She wouldn’t be the same when she got older. Crawl through dark tunnels? Sure. Fight against Fused? Eh, why not. But feel your own body changing you into someone else, and not be able to stop it? Every human being lived with a terrible terror, and they all ignored it. Their own bodies mutated, and elongated, and started bleeding, and became all wrong. Nobody talked about it? Nobody was scared of it? What was wrong with them? The last time things felt right, Lift thought, I was with her. Before she got sick. And I was her little girl. If she saw me now, she wouldn’t recognize me. 2
alder24 Posted July 27, 2022 Posted July 27, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Treamayne said: She is fairly explicit about her motivations in RoW (I-5) That's even better motivation, and there is nothing more to add, it answers first question. Nightwatcher would always grant her visitors wishes, this time it was above her abilities, so Cultivations got involved (with whatever end goal she had in mind). But Lift's wish was against Cultivations intent, as its all about changing and growing (there was WoB about it), so Cultivation messed up with her spiritual web - probably gave Lift ability to heal herself according to her self perception (similarto Returned). And about boon and curse it's not always so easly distinguishable, Taravangian needed both intelligence and compassion to have his wish granted, with Lift it maybe similar. Edited July 27, 2022 by alder24
HavingTheHasHoidAPurpose? Posted October 6, 2022 Posted October 6, 2022 Perhaps her mother wasn't really wasting away physically (EG with Tuberculosis), but rather mentally, with the effects of heraldic madness, perhaps eventually taking her own life. Her mother could have reminisced to lift about all her children who she had to watch slowly pass with time, thus motivating lift's desire to stay the same.
SpinningSky he/him Posted October 7, 2022 Posted October 7, 2022 It seems to me like the quote you posted about her mother already kind of works against this theory, I can hardly see a herald going mad being remembered as " Like how your mother had been so warm, and kindly, so ready to take care of everyone" I also feel that if Lift was aware of her mother's heraldic nature, then "not changing" would not be what she would ask for, as she would have seen how bad it gets for immortals in the cosmere Even if she was too young to understand, running away from a past scarred by an unchanging being by becoming an unchanging being doesn't feel like the way the story would progress to me. This plus the fact that having two heralds children would be a bit repetitive, and the Shallan theory rocks as you mentioned In general, my feeling is that we just don't have enough information to theorize about Lift's past. I do have a theory about what happenend with the Nightwatcher and her connection to the spiritual, it's in my signature if you're curious
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