Tamriel Wolfsbaine Posted June 30, 2022 Posted June 30, 2022 I think I remember a RAFO in regards to what Arsteel could do if given enough breaths to awaken. My question is what about other magic systems? If a mistborn dies and then gets awakened is it still able to matabolize metals? Could you then have under your command a lifeless with mistborn powers to do your bidding? How about with fabrials and medallion tech. Can lifeless use the tech? What would happen if you gave one of Kalad's phantoms a medallion and commanded it to use it? What if it was Arsteel or another human you were using as a lifeless instead of a rock golem? Can a lifeless use an honor blade and access stormlight? 1
Elegy he/him Posted June 30, 2022 Posted June 30, 2022 I don't think so since the Lifeless is not the same person, it's just the body inhabited by completely unrelated Investiture. I feel the body would be treated like a thing in this case, albeit a thing that kind of remembers having been alive once. Abilities like being a Mistborn are determined by Identity, and I suppose that's gone when the original Investiture leaves the body. There's also this WOB: Quote Phantine Would a lifeless Koloss still be super strong? Brandon Sanderson You see, what is happening to create a koloss is a human soul is taken, sliced up, and sutured back together--with the spikes being the "stitches" that holds it all together. That's a problem, since the various forms of investiture don't play very well together. In Awakening, you're basically giving something a counterfeit soul. (But without the skill or knowledge of something like an Essence Mark.) This means that in investing the corpse of the koloss, you have troubles. It's going to want to snap back to the original human shape and strength. If you COULD overcome this, then yes, it would be stronger. /r/books AMA 2015 (Aug. 11, 2015) ... but I'm not quite sure what to make of some of it. 1
That1Cellist he/him Posted July 1, 2022 Posted July 1, 2022 I'm more curious if a lifeless could bond a spren. I believe on the Coppermind, it says that Nightblood could bond a spren in some very, very unusual circumstances. What about a lifeless? 1
Quantus he/him Posted July 1, 2022 Posted July 1, 2022 (edited) Radiance is actually pretty open since all it actually requires is the consent of the Spren, the basic mental capability to speak Ideals with Intent, a cracked soul, and a physical Body (since the spren needs that as an anchor to manifest). Nightblood is weird because he's a "robot spren", but with a native physical Body, which arguably puts him closer to a Robot Returned/Herald in terms of realmic state. So he might be viable as a Radiant in the same way Nale is. He is objectively growing in Investiture and abilities so there's no reason to think he cant evolve enough to step through some Truths/Ideals if he and a Spren come to an understanding. A Lifeless is being reanimated by somewhat blunt and undirected investiture, and as we've seen it really doesnt get them all the way back. Arsteel was most likely reanimated with his own original breath which could explain his noted improved retention of skills from life. But there are also multiple ways to create what they commonly call a Lifeless, and I they would have different realmic implications on Bonding. The "old" Command took 50 breaths and I suspect was a more brute force reanimation of the meat-body and that the improvement to a single breath was a Command to replace/recharge the Spirit rather than the body. Per several WOB's a Lifeless barely has any Soul left (for the purposes of hemalurgy, etc) so to get them charged up and mentally awake enough to Bond would (I think) take a lot more Breaths/Investiture and a new & more specific Command. One WOB says it could be possible to dump enough in them to create something like a Cognitive Shadow, which should then be playing on Returned/Herald rules for Radiance purposes. Quote Wyrmhero (paraphrased) Can you could Hemalurgically spike a dead thing, similar to how Breath goes into dead things? Could you spike a Lifeless? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Yes, if there was enough of the soul left for the spike to take. London signing (Aug. 4, 2014) Quote Pechvarry (paraphrased) Could you make a spike from a Lifeless? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) "Oooo interesting!" He said their soul is so drained there wouldn't be much left, so you could only get the barest hint. Pechvarry (paraphrased) But you COULD technically get a charge? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Yes, but it would be very weak. Words of Radiance Dayton signing (March 19, 2014) Quote Doc_John (paraphrased) Hey! If you had the correct Intent in mind, could you Command a Lifeless to follow a Knight's Radiant Ideal? Like could you command it to "Protect those who cannot protect themselves" Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Yes, this would be possible, though it would depend on the Lifeless and circumstances on how good a job they do at it. The command is a little abstract, and could end up not working as well as you want it to. General Reddit 2020 (Sept. 22, 2020) Quote TurtletheFlsh What would happen if you created a Lifeless with more Breath then is necessary? Would they be more or completely human or just a Lifeless that's holding more Breath? Brandon Sanderson Lifeless with more Breath are an interesting situation. It's quite possible for the BREATH to start taking on a personality, much like a Cognitive Shadow, related to the individual. Whether or not it is actually them, though, is a big question. Note, this doesn't always happen. Often, dumping a lot of Breath in them is like sticking it in an inanimate object with no Command. /r/books AMA 2015 (June 24, 2015) For Mistborn/Feruchemists, short answer is No: Quote little wilson Can a Mistborn turned into a Lifeless still use Allomancy? Brandon Sanderson *long-ish pause* Uh, no. little wilson So I would assume that is the same for a Feruchemist? Brandon Sanderson Yeah if you-- taking some-- Yeah. No they can't. Holiday signing (Dec. 12, 2015) To use Medallions you need to be able to recognize the tech for what it is and provide the Intent of the equation, so they'd need sapience for that like awakening (I believe). Quote Oudeis16 If Bob the Awakener Awakened fifty straw men to dance around, then died, then Returned as FormerBob the Appropriately Named, would FormerBob be able to reclaim the Breath from the straw men in the normal fashion (once he learned the "Your Breath to Mine" Command)? Brandon Sanderson Yes. He has enough of his original Identity, and the spiritual connection would remain. sonofstannis What if he instead were reincarnated as a lifeless? Is there a way he could reclaim it then? Brandon Sanderson Lifeless have someone else's investiture replacing their own. (As opposed to Returned, who are augmented.) Depends on how much of them is left, and if they can achieve sapience again, but I'd say this is unlikely. WeiryWriter What if the Lifeless is Awakened with their own Breath? (i.e. they gave it away right before they died and the person they gave it to then used it in the Awakening) Brandon Sanderson This has happened already in the world, and it does help. -Nayrb Did this happen "on screen"? Brandon Sanderson RAFO. /r/books AMA 2015 (July 30, 2015) Edited July 1, 2022 by Quantus 3
cometaryorbit Posted July 14, 2022 Posted July 14, 2022 Yeah most of these won't work, but I think fabrial tech would as that is just machinery anyone can use. (Not sure about Surge Fabrials like Soulcasters as given that they cause savantism Investiture must still flow through the user's spiritweb - but those are really different things from artifabrian fabrials anyway.) Medallions... as we know them probably not, due to the needed Intent as @Quantus says. But there are probably forms of ettmetal powered Metallic Arts tech that would work. But if one somehow became sapient I guess more things would be possible.
Stormtide_Leviathan Posted July 14, 2022 Posted July 14, 2022 On 7/1/2022 at 8:29 AM, Quantus said: Hey! If you had the correct Intent in mind, could you Command a Lifeless to follow a Knight's Radiant Ideal? Like could you command it to "Protect those who cannot protect themselves" Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Yes, this would be possible, though it would depend on the Lifeless and circumstances on how good a job they do at it. The command is a little abstract, and could end up not working as well as you want it to. I wonder if this is affected at all if you reanimate someone who was a radiant of that type
Duxredux he/him Posted July 16, 2022 Posted July 16, 2022 Actually, yes for the original post @Tamriel Wolfsbaine, and for @Quantus, confirmed that Lifeless can use Medallion tech, and doing so may be dangerous for keeping your Lifeless a Lifeless. Quote AndyGranny If you used a Lifeless body, would a Lifeless be able to access an untapped metalmind... Brandon Sanderson An unkeyed type of metalmind? AndyGranny Thank you, I could not think of that word. Would they be able to access an unkeyed metalmind if the intent when the Lifeless was created, if the intent was that they could... Brandon Sanderson Right, I see what you're getting at. Yes, they could. As they could access and use any tool that is appropriate for what they're Commanded to do, they could indeed access a metalmind in the same way. In fact, doing so may, depending on the metalmind, be dangerous for keeping your Lifeless a Lifeless. JordanCon 2021 (July 17, 2021) Do we think Brandon is implying that specific Metalminds are capable of restoring a Lifeless either controlled by their or personality or the personality of the Breath that had made them Lifeless? If that's what that last comment means, then there may be similar issues with giving Lifeless access to Stormlight healing, more with a Radiant bond than through an Honorblade which cannot heal Shardblade wounds to the soul. If a Lifeless can use a medallion, I think there's a fair chance they could use an Honorblade. My initial though was that while mechanically it seems possible for a Lifeless to bond with a spren, it seems very unlikely for a spren to bond with a being that must do as it's owner Commands, obeying even Commands that are violations of Oaths. However... Okay, very possible scenario: Radiant Vratim dies in combat, Honorspren Yunfah remains sapient in the Physical Realm after Vratim's death. A passing Awakener takes pity, revives Vratim as a Lifeless with a single Breath and gives Yunfah the core security phrase. The Awakener tells Yunfah that if they can reform their bond with Vratim to the extent that Vratim starts drawing in Stormlight, then Vratim's soul could be healed (let's assume that this is stated but not confirmed yet). What happens if Yunfah Commands Vratim to speak again the Oaths?
Cosmerenomics Enthusiest. Posted July 17, 2022 Posted July 17, 2022 (edited) I would say there needs to be more Intent behind the Oaths for them to have an effect. Maybe he could become a squire and that would allow him to draw in Stormlight. But could he even do that as a Lifeless? I'm guessing Lifelesses abilities come from muscle memory largely with a small amount of consciousness imparted by the breath Edited July 17, 2022 by LightweaverWannabe
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