Tamriel Wolfsbaine Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 Given that we see a certain person using stormlight to keep divine breath satisfied I am curious if other avenues are able to do the same. If a returned got access to a medallion could they store their attribute and then feed the divine breath with that? How much do you think it would take to keep them from dying? Likewise do we know if it can also be fed by allomancy? How would you... I guess... choose to do that through that avenue? Would certain metals feed the breath faster or more efficiently? Would it take away from your use of it as an allomantic power? For the godkings do we know if they choose to only feed it one breath a week or is it literally that it only takes one breath a week? I am not sure if it is a ticking count down and it simply takes all it needs at once or if it is a more gradual thing. It seems that once the breath is fed it becomes duller over the time... Is the divine breath receiving all of the investiture to use until it is gone and you simply are allowed to use it as well or do you recieve all of the other breaths and the divine breath takes from your pool as it sees fit? Would divine breath be happy with a constant slow drip of investiture all the time by skimming off the top of some allomancy or stormlight consumption or does it require being fed all at once till it is filled up like a tank of gas in a car? Keep it topped off and it doesn't matter but if it runs out once you are dead. 1
Stormtide_Leviathan Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 It seems that the divine breath just needs a certain amount of investiture, and it doesn't really matter what kind. So you could almost surely fuel it with allomancy or feruchemy, yeah. Basically, if you burn a metal, you get a big burst of Investiture that normally is channeled for a specific purpose (like pushing on metal with steel), but if you know what you're doing you could channel that investure for something like fueling divine breath (or nightblood). Same with tapping from a metalmind. So yes, it would take away from the allomantic effect of the metal cause you're basically diverting the power to something else. 1
NameIess Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 I don't know if storing an attribute and then tapping it would work. My best guess would be that storing a feruchemical trait would accelerate the rate at which the returned requires investiture in order to sustain their soul, and tapping it would just increase that time back to normal.
Frustration Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 29 minutes ago, Nameless said: I don't know if storing an attribute and then tapping it would work. My best guess would be that storing a feruchemical trait would accelerate the rate at which the returned requires investiture in order to sustain their soul, and tapping it would just increase that time back to normal. I have to disagree, you should still be able to store attributes, besides maybe nicrosil, and then use the store as raw invetiture. It wou;d probably requires some hacks but I see no reason it shouldn't work.
NameIess Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 11 minutes ago, Frustration said: I have to disagree, you should still be able to store attributes, besides maybe nicrosil, and then use the store as raw invetiture. It wou;d probably requires some hacks but I see no reason it shouldn't work. A returned's soul takes investiture to upkeep, when a normal human's does not. They would be able to store, but it doesn't make sense for it to work like you're suggesting. A feruchemist doesn't add investiture to their system, they simply store it and then release it. So storing investiture and then tapping it is, in terms of investiture in a system, unchanged from simply not storing or tapping. If a returned dies in one scenario, why wouldn't they die in another? Their Divine breath already feeds off their soul once their breaths run out, doesn't it? How is feruchemy different?
Frustration Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Nameless said: A returned's soul takes investiture to upkeep, when a normal human's does not. They would be able to store, but it doesn't make sense for it to work like you're suggesting. A feruchemist doesn't add investiture to their system, they simply store it and then release it. So storing investiture and then tapping it is, in terms of investiture in a system, unchanged from simply not storing or tapping. If a returned dies in one scenario, why wouldn't they die in another? Their Divine breath already feeds off their soul once their breaths run out, doesn't it? How is feruchemy different? It converts an attributre into investiture for storage.
NameIess Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 Just now, Frustration said: It converts an attributre into investiture for storage. But that attribute would be consumed along with the rest of the soul when the Divine breath eats that.
Frustration Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, Nameless said: But that attribute would be consumed along with the rest of the soul when the Divine breath eats that. What? How is the soul consumed if investiture is provided?
NameIess Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 Just now, Frustration said: What? How is the soul consumed if investiture is provided? if investiture is not provided, then the soul would be consumed. Storing an attribute would require that attribute to be replenished, through investiture from the Divine Breath, upkeeping the Returned's body as it normally does. However, now that I think about it, there probably are some attributes that would work. F-pewter, gold, zinc, steel, copper, tin, bronze, electrum, and aluminum wouldn't work, as they store attributes that come from the investiture of a Returned's soul (Or in aluminum's case might not be tappable). I'm not sure how chromium and duraluminum would work, but I'd guess that since Connection and Fortune are part of a soul, they wouldn't work either. F-iron, brass, cadmium, and bendalloy probably would work, as they get investiture from external sources. So a Returned could probably get a ton of food to eat, then store the calories and tap that later. Not quite as easy as living on Roshar or Taldain, but very portable.
Some Random Spren he/him Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 apart from weird attributes like aluminium and copper, the feruchemical attributes only get diminished while you are storing so if you managed to get the charge into pure investiture i see no reason that feruchemy wouldn't be a good option for that F-Iron would probably work the best, although depending on your lifestyle you could always do something like F-Pewter if you don't normally need a lot of strength (say if you work as a scribe or something)
Tamriel Wolfsbaine Posted June 13, 2022 Author Posted June 13, 2022 14 minutes ago, Nameless said: if investiture is not provided, then the soul would be consumed. Storing an attribute would require that attribute to be replenished, through investiture from the Divine Breath, upkeeping the Returned's body as it normally does. However, now that I think about it, there probably are some attributes that would work. F-pewter, gold, zinc, steel, copper, tin, bronze, electrum, and aluminum wouldn't work, as they store attributes that come from the investiture of a Returned's soul (Or in aluminum's case might not be tappable). I'm not sure how chromium and duraluminum would work, but I'd guess that since Connection and Fortune are part of a soul, they wouldn't work either. F-iron, brass, cadmium, and bendalloy probably would work, as they get investiture from external sources. So a Returned could probably get a ton of food to eat, then store the calories and tap that later. Not quite as easy as living on Roshar or Taldain, but very portable. So a breath is a net neutral power? Awakening would be considered net neutral on a cosmere view of things due to the fact that there really isn't anything gained... however individuals receiving more than their own inherent breath get a net positive benefit from the power... This is the only way I can think this point of view. Returned need outside investiture... it isn't necessary that it come from a net positive source just that it needs to not be their own self that is feeding it. In fact I would look at Nalthis and think due to the nature of The Returned the planet as a whole might end up being net negative. I know they reproduce enough to pay for those returned but most societies once they advance far enough actually go negative in population growth. If Nalthis ever were to hit a point where there were fewer children being born each year than breaths being used to feed returned it would definately spell doom for the system... until all the returned died and some drabs started having children again. Which is totally a possibility considering you can't recover breath from lifeless and if a war of awakeners broke out you would have hundreds and thousands of breaths being lost forever each time one of them dies. Side tangent over I can see the argument that some attributes wouldn't work for feruchemy. This idea that returned are at their best right after getting a new young breath would also imply that every day that goes on they loose vitality. If you have a bucket full of water and it had a leak in it (signifying that the returned soul gets closer to dying every day without new investiture) it would be difficult to take water out of the bucket and then refill it with that same water thinking you will run empty slower... if fact you will run out just as fast only with the removal and replacement of water you run the risk of running out before replacing what you removed. I definately see your point about those certain metals. Bendalloy or cadmium would probably work great as it is just storing outside things... strength and health are already tied to your vitality.
cometaryorbit Posted June 14, 2022 Posted June 14, 2022 (edited) I think technically it's not the Divine Breath that needs to be fed Investiture, it's the Returned body. There's a WoB that a living human with a Hemalurgically stolen Divine Breath wouldn't need to do the same thing. The Divine Breath is one (normally*) inseparable chunk of Investiture, so without another source of fuel the Returned body consumes the Divine Breath all at once... and as the Divine Breath is what's keeping the soul/Cognitive Shadow around that's fatal. I think any external source of Investiture should work, if Vasher ate a bead of lerasium or got the Bands of Mourning or an Allomancy granting Hemalurgic spike he should be able to fuel himself from metals, if he were somehow taken by the Shaod he should be able to use the Dor, etc. But that power wouldn't be available for its actual Allomantic or AonDor effect. The details here are interesting though-- did Vasher have to do anything special to gain the ability to inhale Stormlight, or are Returned just inherently "Investiture eaters"? Would he be able to inhale Preservation's mist or absorb Taldain's sunlight? *though the Royal Locks are supposed to come from 'a fragment' of Divine Breath so there must be a way around that Edited June 14, 2022 by cometaryorbit spelling
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