When They Cry

[aneonfoxtribute]

Going to just say, Battler in Episode 1 meets everybody except Kinzo. He meets all 17 people. 

[Eluvianii he/him]

...

Well that is a bit of a brain break.

I might go for Beatrice killing herself early from Episode 5 onwards, thus she becomes just a piece. Idk.

Now, I know myself, I do not think I'm making it to the end of the day without starting Episode 8. So in case they outright answer the question, I guess I should make a stand on the identity at least. I won't go for the route that seeing everything through Shannon's pov was misdirection, as they implied by showing Clair, there are literally no other candidates. A servant, around the cousins' age, that was around six years ago, and is also present the day of the conference. Has to be her.

Now, while that happens, I guess I'll try to back up that other theory or look for new ones. Damn, should have taken more notes...

[aneonfoxtribute]

1 minute ago, Eluvianii said:

I might go for Beatrice killing herself early from Episode 5 onwards, thus she becomes just a piece. Idk.

No, there's 16 people on the island at the start of every Episode. Beatrice is someone who is on the island.

Also, they don't answer the question of who Yasu is. That's reserved for the manga, the VN never says it outright.

[Eluvianii he/him]

Oh, so the 16 people rule applies since Episode 1. But Battler can count 17 also in Episode 1. I'm lost...

Well, Shannon will have to be my guess. It does feel like I'm falling for something since, well, they made her too obvious during the confession, which usually means misdirection, but they just have narrowed down the requirements too much. Unless they pull some switching places shenanigans that would make no sense whatsoever, I can't think of anyone else.

And I still don't know what's up with Battler not being Asumu's son. Hell, didn't the call him "not the real Battler" at some point? I'm right at the end here...

And a bit of crackpot I forgot to add. Imagine Kyrie being Kinzo's grand niece or something. I bet even in the Ryukishiverse white hair has to be rare. Would be fun. Like her family treated her like crap while trying to recover for being disconnected from the main family, and she steals the gold as revenge or something. Don't take this seriously.

[Eluvianii he/him]

Alright. I did a little bit of sinning.

I decided to revise the theory a little bit, remove Kanon from the equation, make that my final theory, and check my answers. I had already reached the point where no new theories were being born and I was just second guessing myself about everything without really explaining why, so it seemed like a good point to stop. So I went ahead and read those chapters.

I don't regret doing it, exactly, but I am very, very frustrated at all the times I actually arrived to the truth and immediately discarded it.

Was Shannon Kanon with a skirt? The other way around, but yes.

Was she choosing between George and Jessica? Yes.

The paraplegic theory I only made because it was the easiest conclusion to make for a body that can't bear children. No wheelchair, but she indeed can't bear children.

It's frustrating because I know I wouldn't have reached the truth. Because those are things I had already discarded, and I don't really go back to consider things I discarded. My thinking was flexible enough, but I screwed myself over. How's that for irony?

At least I was right about Shannon and about the whole ritual being a bet to make Battler solve the thing, though my reasoning was backwards. She didn't plan to get Battler's attention and stake everyone's lives on it. She risked everyone's lives and decided to involve Battler last minute. In that sense I was closer to the truth like 4 episodes ago, when I thought the game was Beatrice's try to stop the tragedy. She just happened to also be the perpretrator.

Oh yeah, I guess I was also right about everyone being so taken with the gold that they missed something in the room, though it wasn't a corpse.

I did skip over the part where she explains specific crimes though. I want to think a little longer on that one.

Now, even though it was extremely depressing, this is the first thing that gives me some hope for an everyone lives ending. Now I know that the purpose given to Battler wasn't just to solve the crime, but to prevent it. I think Episode 6 might have been supposed to be that, but Erika screwed that up. So I'll let myself get my hopes up for the last episode.

I also wanted to have a clear answer on the culprit because I wanted to be able to track them in this last episode. See if there are any hints about, idk, something good. An unnecessary concern it seems.

I only did the prologue and chapter 1, but this does seem like what I was afraid of. A final memory for Ange to treasure 12 years from now. Magic in its purest form, a lie designed to make you like your world a little more. It's a beautiful sentiment, but knowing that this isn't possible makes me sad.

Now, Ange did notice that this reality makes no sense, and she will have to choose whether to leave or stay, which I guess is similar to choosing whether to accept it or not.

I loved the scene, and it's really heartwarming to see a Kinzo that adores his family, I definitely don't regret seeing that. But it feels wrong. I just don't know what to expect from this point on.

Well, gotta stop. Yesterday's session was a little too long and it's kinda bringing me down, so I need a break for a day or so, but I also needed to at least start the episode to get some peace of mind. Don't know how to explain it. Now it's done so I'll try to distract myself. Gosh, these stories are dangerous for my mental health...

[aneonfoxtribute]

Confession of the Golden Witch is, like, the peakest of peak fiction

 

[Eluvianii he/him]

Seriously, I thought it was an exaggeration when you talked about how sad her backstory was given that the confession in the vn was rather tame. Then the manga made me eat my words. 

I also should hurry with this. Youtube is relentlessly recommending Umineko content. The war to avoid spoilers for the next couple weeks is on. 

[aneonfoxtribute]

6 minutes ago, Eluvianii said:

Seriously, I thought it was an exaggeration when you talked about how sad her backstory was given that the confession in the vn was rather tame. Then the manga made me eat my words. 

Yeah, the things the VN hides from the backstory is brutal stuff. 

[Eluvianii he/him]

I'm this close to let Battler gaslight me...

This Beato is looking awfully similar to the original. Even that reunion between her and Battler felt like it was a long time coming. Like hey, we haven't talked since Episode 4.

It's curious how Ange in 1998 seems aware of the game. Like this is happening in her dreams. So this would indeed be a parting gift of sorts. Family is not coming back so don't waste your life dwelling on it. Damn this thing is sad.

Fake or not, I'm loving this fragment. It feels wrong but it's so heartwarming when you accept it. Battler and Beato acting like old-friends-maybe-couple is a really fun dynamic that feels so, idk, happy after all the fighting. Cool grandpa Kinzo is everything I wanted his character to become. Sayo, Yoshiya, and Beato living as different people just means they can all achieve what they want. It would be so ideal.

Hell, I can't even discount all of it. It's already been said that it's a farce, but Battler does talk about certain things like they're memories for him, like cool grandpa Kinzo. Some of it he didn't even mention to Ange, like the event with the stakes, so I can only be inclined to believe this person existed.

Was it all affected by Sayo's perception  to some degree? Was she so focused on her hatred as she wrote the letters, that she depicted all of the sins without the good qualities?

Speaking of, wdym there was a Land of the Golden Witch? Nani nani, lost episode? Doko?

Also, can Battler do this? I mean, he's doing it so obviously, but he has broken a  few laws of physics already, Sayo and Yoshiya sharing the same room with Ange present and all. Is this alright since there's no mystery going on?

Either way, gonna enjoy this. however long it lasts. I considered binging, and while I might not resist the temptation once I'm close to the end, I think I'm better off going back to the 2 chapter pace for now. I'm not quite prepared  for this story to be over, so I should at least savor it.

Wonder when Bern will make her move.

[aneonfoxtribute]

2 minutes ago, Eluvianii said:

Speaking of, wdym there was a Land of the Golden Witch? Nani nani, lost episode? Doko?

That's the original Episode 3. I believe I told you about that. 

Also, the thing about Kinzo is, we know next to nothing about the man himself. We literally only see him once outside of flashbacks to the PARENTS childhoods. For all we know, this IS what he was like in his older age. This is certainly consistent with how he acts in Confession of the Golden Witch. We never see the real him interact with the cousins. Never.

Edited May 7 by aneonfoxtribute

[Eluvianii he/him]

Ah I see. The one with evil Virgilia?

14 minutes ago, aneonfoxtribute said:

Also, the thing about Kinzo is, we know next to nothing about the man himself. We literally only see him once outside of flashbacks to the PARENTS childhoods. For all we know, this IS what he was like in his older age. This is certainly consistent with how he acts in Confession of the Golden Witch. We never see the real him interact with the cousins. Never.

This is my truth now. I choose to believe this.

Edited May 7 by Eluvianii

[aneonfoxtribute]

37 minutes ago, Eluvianii said:

Ah I see. The one with evil Virgilia?

Yeah. He was split into Virgilia and Erika. From what we know, he was basically Erika 0.5

[Eluvianii he/him]

I shudder to think what that is like...

[Eluvianii he/him]

They're going to hide a bad ending inside one of these cake slices and I'm going to get it!!

Alright, maybe not. I just think this is really cool and I'm unreasonably excited about it.

[aneonfoxtribute]

The cake slice is always scripted to be the same thing.

However, that's not the only gameplay in this Episode. You're going to be told to do some puzzles soon. It's IMPERITIVE that you get them all correct. You will miss scenes if you don't get the questions right.

[Eluvianii he/him]

That's so cool.

I like this trend of putting some gameplay only in the last episode. Helps bring home the point that this is the end. Guess I'll have to use more than one save for once.

Also, drunk Ange is cute!!!

[Eluvianii he/him]

First half done! Man, I'm overthinking some of these. I chose ice cream in the food one because ice cream has a lot of fat, meaning in the long run it heats you up instead of cooling you. Same result but still. And for the one about the ambulance I even started looking up kanjis and stuff, yet it was so simple.

And my brain completely short circuited on Genji's. I was looking for 1cm and completely glossed over 10mm. After that I figured that I had to make the division after all and got it wrong. So that was embarrassing, I did reload though.

Man, this thing is killing me. Eva's history with Ange makes all the sense in the world, but they made sure to make her easy to hate back in Episode 3. And my heart broke when Natsuhi talked about how much she regretted the thing with Lion, and I straight up melted when Beato hugged her. I'm not surviving this, dude, spread my ashes somewhere nice.

I gather you get the scenes after Ange leaves by getting the riddles right? It's absolutely beautiful and painful. Like if anyone has any character development and/or redemption arcs left, we're doing them right here, right now. No time to wait, enjoy solving the puzzles because that's the only break time you get. Better yet, Kyrie and Rosa are in the back half, this is gonna hurt.

[aneonfoxtribute]

The scene with Natsuhi and Beato is so WHOLESOME, it's one of my favorites!

No, the scenes you get are the ones that are in between. The scenes with Natsuhi and Eva without Ange present are the scenes you can miss.

[Eluvianii he/him]

Yeah, that's what I meant. Pretty big reason not to fail any riddles then.

[Eluvianii he/him]

Done with second half.

Ok that was extremely cute but also extremely sad.

Kanon and Shannon fighting was an interesting way to end their story. At this point it really is like they're separate pieces with wills and emotions of their own, tied down by Lion's choices. That's pretty sad.

No Rosa, oh well. Still, Maria's bit was interesting. Way this was put, every Maria scene so far is there to teach Ange something. Oh and her puzzle was evil. I got it right the first time but it was not immediately obvious that it was the correct answer. It made me believe I was wrong in fact. So there go another 10 minutes of me believing I actually have to solve the thing. Pain.

What if Ange is stuck in her own loop Rika style? No? Too much wishful thinking? But like, she's died a couple times in the future already. I think. Neither of those were really explicitly told. Really, I'm just clinging to my only hope of a perfect ending here. Although I get that going the "Ange is stuck and just has to wake up" route may undermine Beatrice's story. ALTHOUGH if Ryukishi doesn't want to state Beatrice's identity, he has to go a different route to wrap up the story, which he is, through Ange. So this angle is still technically possible? Maybe? I'll just keep reading, reasoning time is probably over.

Now look. Kyrie is fine, she does the mature thing treating Battler like a son and all, sure, whatever. I'll just never understand why this is something that she had to force herself to do. I didn't understand this with Natsuhi and I understand it even less with Kyrie. No matter how much you hate the parent, the kid is sinless and deserving of love. Actual love, not just pretending. Yes, I'm aware she can't exactly control how she feels about him, you don't choose your emotions. I know I'm being unreasonable here but this is a point I'm unable to let go of, in any context. I disliked Catelyn for the entirety of GoT because of her attitude against Jon in S1. All the cool moments and good deeds in the world didn't make up for that in my eyes, and I'm having an equally hard time here. Now that she knows that it's her son, she looked like she felt guilty. Good. I hope she did.

George's puzzle I got right, only because I had heard it before. Probability and I don't get along. I like the message behind it though. It kinda supports the idea that none of this happened and she's letting herself be convinced by Beatrice's tales. We continue along that line and Sayo just wrote the things, sent them ashore, the island exploded, Ange grew bitter, she read the tales, and she believed them. Not the magic parts but the part about it all being a murder case. Ruining the memory of her family within her, which is the actual thing closest to the truth.

I loved the scene where she fell asleep, everyone's goodbye was adorable. I really loved Kinzo's. Now, this has been about 7 hours, probably not even halfway through. I can't even begin to guess what happens from here on out.

Edited May 21 by Eluvianii

[aneonfoxtribute]

15 hours ago, Eluvianii said:

I didn't understand this with Natsuhi and I understand it even less with Kyrie. No matter how much you hate the parent, the kid is sinless and deserving of love.

Kyrie and Natsuhi have two very different reasons for it. Kyrie sees it as proof of her failure in love, someone else stole her man first and Battler is the proof of that. Natsuhi sees it as proof of her failure as a woman, she couldn't get pregnant so she was just given a baby out of pity. Neither of them are very rational. Who'd have seen that one coming.

[aneonfoxtribute]

When will they cry again

[Eluvianii he/him]

Sorry, life got busy with end of semester and looking for internships. I severely underestimated how much of my time that would occupy. 

Things got kinda back to normal recently though, I'll try to play today. I do want to finish this before Daybreak (which I won't be getting for another couple weeks anyway). 

[Eluvianii he/him]

Well, that was both a lot of progress and no progress at all.

I have been challenged to a duel by Ryukishi. And dammit that's really exciting!

I have zero confidence I can solve this without hints, but I really really want to. So I will give it a fair shot, I have some time. A few days rereading the thing sound doable.

I do want to confirm a couple of the rules if that's alright.

"A culprit must carry out all murders directly, by their own hands." Am I to understand this as all the murders they're involved in, or all in general? I guess this would translate to if I'm looking for one person or if there can be several.

"A culprit must not die." I take this one as saying that the culprit(s) is/are alive, but faking death is valid. Right?

I find it interesting that Beatrice's identity's rules seem to apply, but only partially. Shannon dies and immediately Kanon is counted as dead too, but before that they were in the same room at all times in front of everyone.

Of course, even though it was said that there are no falsehoods here, it could still be possible that they were switching around from scene to scene, and whenever they both talk in the same scene they are supposed the same persona to everyone else. That would be kinda sneaky but still the truth. I don't know how to phrase that without making it sound confusing... I also don't know if doing that is possible without a Reader though.

Speaking of Readers, is that why the story is so dry? There was emotion there but everything was said so concisely and matter-of-factly. Only the necessary facts were presented, it barely could be considered a story. Would a Reader turn this into a full blown episode with all the bells and whistles?

Also what's with the whole "Bern is being so brave by participating."?

Battler now considers Erika a friend. He's a bigger human than I'd dare to be... Well, if she does come back I hope she does something cool.

Well, if you need me I'll be hitting my head against my notes. I'll post if I can come up with a theory. Or if I eventually give up but I'd prefer not to consider that possibility.

[aneonfoxtribute]

Ah, Bern's game. It's very fun. I couldn't do it.

9 minutes ago, Eluvianii said:

"A culprit must carry out all murders directly, by their own hands." Am I to understand this as all the murders they're involved in, or all in general? I guess this would translate to if I'm looking for one person or if there can be several.

This isn't talking about the number of culprits, but the method of murder. Anyone considered a culprit must commit murder directly, by their own hands. No traps, no proxies, no accidents. If someone is dead, then the method was perfectly straightforward.

10 minutes ago, Eluvianii said:

"A culprit must not die." I take this one as saying that the culprit(s) is/are alive, but faking death is valid. Right?

Correct. By the end of the game, if someone committed murder, then they are alive.

Don't worry too much about Shannon and Kanon. Their dual identity is irrelevant to Bern's game.

12 minutes ago, Eluvianii said:

Speaking of Readers, is that why the story is so dry? There was emotion there but everything was said so concisely and matter-of-factly. Only the necessary facts were presented, it barely could be considered a story. Would a Reader turn this into a full blown episode with all the bells and whistles?

This is because it was written by Bern. She has no love, and she doesn't care. Everyone talks unnaturally because Bern doesn't care enough to write them as people, she writes them as props, things to move the story forward and nothing else.