Jump to content

When They Cry


Recommended Posts

Given the subject matter of this story I can't fathom why I feel like this, but after taking a break and coming back to this I feel so cozy. The Ushiromiya mansion feels like home. Not the home you live in but the home your great grandma lends to the family for parties. The anticipation of exploring a familiar place I don't see very often with my sister and cousins. I could stare at the parlor and watch the rain beating the window for hours.

Well anyway, first twilight done. It took me an embarrassingly long time to figure out that's what was happening. Which means the people involved are in for a nasty surprise. So much for only affecting other fragments.

Regarding Young Beato's weakness to mirrors. I'd like to tentatively keep my first theory, but it also seems she's only weak to Natsuhi's mirror? Maybe she just hasn't tried others, it did seem like it was the reflection that repelled her. Also, Natsuhi got a bit chuuni there "This mirror repels all evil!". That was cute.

I have gained a cautious respect for Rosa's resolve. I just wish she wasn't spending all her energy on it. Maria should be the silver lining saving her from the hell her partner put her in, not the shackles chaining her to it. As for the partner himself. I swear, I won't even be surprised if he comes back like, embarrassed because he didn't make it big overseas. Didn't answer her calls because he couldn't face her, a classic case of a situation that would have been exponentially better for everyone involved if they just talked. That's just wishful thinking at the moment though, with current data he sucks.

Ok, I did remember Battler had decided to be gentler with Beato. I did not expect however for him to find out she was fighting for his hand in marriage and immediately agree. Wonder how that'll turn out.

I don't like this philosophy that if you lose at love you're miserable forever.

As for layer 3 out of 4 in the story (aka human Ange and the writer), I guess the idea here is that if Beatrice just sent the truth out into the world, it would be immediately drowned in a sea of fake theories. So by turning the truth into a puzzle, one that prompts the people who solve it to create more variants, the realization people feel when they arrive to the truth is stronger than simply reading one theory among many. Therefore once enough people arrive to it, the real truth will overwrite every other version of it out there, and that's the reward for Beato's efforts. If so, that's really convoluted. I love it.

Oh yeah, I wonder how much freedom you have in a locked room. Natsuhi started screaming really loud back there, wonder if that was "real", and therefore if someone heard it.

Gosh, I can't believe I was looking at a hard magic system all this time. It just so happens that one of the rules is that you have to convince everyone that it's a soft one. Sneaky.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 132
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

On 2/9/2024 at 1:14 AM, Eluvianii said:

Gosh, I can't believe I was looking at a hard magic system all this time. It just so happens that one of the rules is that you have to convince everyone that it's a soft one. Sneaky.

Yeah, part of it is also that the story just doesn't explain it very much. Like it can do just anything, but it's all based on belief. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

This is at least the third game in a row that everyone is like "This is the final game, nothing else beyond this point, no sir". I wonder how long they can keep this up. 

Erika is scummy, moving on. 

So apparently this is a murder mystery in the first place because of Bern? I thought Beato was indebted to Lambda. Well, whatever, they like each other, may have decided on that beforehand. 

Also, Battler can take Beato out of the game once the board is destroyed? If nothing else this would mean Beatrice is something physical, which I was convinced of but the game refused to confirm it. Now, whether that something is a person or like a marble chess piece is a different matter.

Oh yeah, that insult Bern came up with for Erika, gerokasu. I'd never heard that word and wanted to confirm if it even existed because pukespittle sounds absolutely gross, and it turns out it's the title to another Ryukishi novel? I legit can't tell if this is a coincidence. 

Battler is great. I don't care if he's being arrogant or naive, if he's being manipulated or if he's the one doing the manipulating, he's just great. He had a lot of cool moments back when he was just stumbling in the dark. Now that he owns it it's even better. 

Oh yeah, poor Gohda. We got a sacrificial lamb for Erika's weird investigation techniques. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Eluvianii said:

So apparently this is a murder mystery in the first place because of Bern? I thought Beato was indebted to Lambda. Well, whatever, they like each other, may have decided on that beforehand. 

 

She is indebted to Lambda. I'm.... not sure how it's Bern's fault. What's the line you were referring to? If you don't remember it, where is it, I can check on my own. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, aneonfoxtribute said:

She is indebted to Lambda. I'm.... not sure how it's Bern's fault. What's the line you were referring to? If you don't remember it, where is it, I can check on my own. 

 

Crap, I don't have the chapter number. Uhh right before the scene where they trick Battler into giving Erika duct tape. Bern is venting about how much she hates Battler's victory in Episode 5 and says that she killed his family over and over with the goal of making Battler want revenge against Beatrice. She mentions being the one to turn Ange into mincemeat too. 

Granted, the whole scene is supposed to be an act so this might have been made on the spot. But this was way before Battler even arrived to the room and honestly lying about this would be kinda pointless. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay I read the scene. We knew she was the one who did that to Ange, because she was the one who made the deal with Ange to bring her to Battler. As for Bern saying that "she had his family killed over and over again", I'm.... not sure why she says that. It was Lambda who gave Beato power, and Beato who wanted to kill them. Bern was quite literally just an observer who helped Battler a bit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote

Well in reality, everything that happens is kinda a result of Lambda and Bern's manipulations. Bern is the one who brought Ange along in the first place, and she's also someone who kept encouraging Battler to keep fighting Beato, playing the role of his ally so he wouldn't quit, just so he would keep playing the game against Beatrice. Lambda, on the other hand, pushed Beato's side and put the rule on Ange that she couldn't reveal the name.

You could also interpret it as Bern speaking as a personification of miracles, allowing no miraculous scenario where Battler's family survives.

Both Lambda and Bern are responsible for this, in their own way.

NEW

Lambda took interest in Sayo first, but the continuous game of killing happened because Bern came along and wanted to play with Lambda.

Posited the question to my Discord server and this was one of the responses.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/23/2024 at 5:10 PM, Eluvianii said:

That last one has implications that I'm better off not asking about, but makes sense. They're enemies but in a frenemies sort of way. They'll fight but will decide on the game board together. 

Well we've known that for a while. We've known about their relationship and stuff

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okok this is really cool. It's not a "Battler is invincible" episode, it's a "Now we know how Beato felt" episode. I would never have guessed that she could just rewrite the plot. Wonder how many times she had to change things because Battler actually got it right. 

I swear, retroactive seals were a terrible idea. It should have been a rule that she had to specify when and where at the very least before the next move. This is some "I poisoned your cup" "Oh yeah? Well I'm immune to poison" crap. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

Erika refuses to let me get used to her. Every time I get used to her antics she pulls some other crap that makes me remember "Oh that's right, I hate her." 

Anyway she can do that? Killing everyone herself is such a ridiculous move. 

Well, we're back at the prologue I guess. It is nice knowing that the puzzle does have a solution, but I most certainly can't see it. Looking forward to the answer if it's ever revealed. Gonna try to come up with one of my own until then. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Ok, all these little tidbits that explain nothing and just hint at bigger things. 

Lambda talking about Bern's hell was unexpected, at least this soon. We are talking about Higurashi here, right? If so, is Hanyuu Bern's master? 

Was the whole deal about a happy ending being impossible just her giving up on a goal she imposed on herself? That would actually make the ending to Minagoroshi make so much more sense. Rena blaming their deaths on her for not believing always felt rather unfair to me. But if getting out of the loop was Hanyuu's responsibility in the first place, it fits a lot better thematically. Hell, if we continue down that train of thought, one could even consider her being able to stay in that last fragment and live a normal life as a reward for taking up that responsibility again.

"As a Reader, you too have the right to enjoy thinking. ......And I enjoy watching you as you do." This is a really cool quote. Perfect summary of everything this dude writes. 

Ok so, Beatrice is 19. That feels a lot more significant than just stating an arbitrary age for the avatar of the game's rules. I feel like this helps ground her as a real person. And I really want to find out who this person is. Also, she's not blonde, nor bad mouthed. The latter became clear at the beginning of the episode, but I guess that hint from Episode 3 was correct. This is not her real appearance. Just Battler's ideal girl. 

Oh yeah, I started reading Malazan. Therefore I have now decided that Oponn looks like Zepar and Furfur. 

Dlanor looks funny with glasses.

 

Bit of an update as I wrote as I wrote this post in two parts. I thought I was about to finish today's session but this last segment was too much of a page turner. So, main portion of Episode 6 done. Tea party pending.

Virgilia yelling at Beato to do her best was adorable. She sounds like a mom cheering for her daughter at a school competition.

Kanon, you hero, unveiling new personalities for all the people you know at the last moment. So Kinzo's stern and unreasonable persona that everyone remembers and exaggerates was a mask huh? Or at the very least, not the full package. Somehow childish, playful Kinzo fits just right.

Knowing that even Krauss was kind to Kanon, and that he understood Natsuhi is a very nice farewell on his part too. 

Ok, time for the main question. "That still makes 17"?! What is that? Is it related to Kanon and Shannon? Kanon, Shannon, and Beato form a single soul, I think. But like, that's the witch's explanation, doesn't work for the human side. What the hell, who's dead?

Not to mention, this is too good a note for the ending. Erika is gone, Battler is alive, Beato pretty much became Beatrice. No reason to continue this. No reason to kill this Beato either. Battler can now just say a long red truth detailing the whole mystery and the story will be gone. 

Well, I guess that's the reason Bern is nowhere to be seen. She'll do something, and it will be sickening. This mirrors Tsumihoroboshi quite well actually. That too had a happy ending with no reason to continue the story, and yet everyone died anyway. I guess it's time to see what they pull during the tea party. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Eluvianii said:

Lambda talking about Bern's hell was unexpected, at least this soon. We are talking about Higurashi here, right? If so, is Hanyuu Bern's master? 

That is the implication, yes. Hanyuu is heavily implied to be Featherine's Piece.

 

11 hours ago, Eluvianii said:

Ok, time for the main question. "That still makes 17"?! What is that? Is it related to Kanon and Shannon? Kanon, Shannon, and Beato form a single soul, I think. But like, that's the witch's explanation, doesn't work for the human side. What the hell, who's dead?

Figure it out :cackle:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First theory is going to be that either Kanon or Shannon aren't real. All this about only one of them being able to fulfill their love might be because literally only one of them can, being alive and all. I do not like that option however, so I'll try to disregard it for the time being.

Oh yeah, one of my braincells hit the corner of the dvd screensaver I call brain and I remembered a couple things about the results sheet. I don't recall the whole thing and the version in the menu is outdated, but was it just me or did it not include Erika's killings? Furthermore, both Battler and Kanon appear as dead. That was strange. Did Kanon commit suicide in the closet to stop existing?

I like that in the wedding all the characters were just casually attending dressed as goats. It also is the Golden Land, so most of the events there can probably be counted as not real, but still, it was cute to see Eva accepting her son's relationship for once. Rosa's "Marriage isn't the goal, it's the beginning" kinda stings on the other hand.

I'm glad that this particular Ange got some closure, even if there's about a 50/50 chance she'll die within a couple days. At least she's aware. Sad to see Okonogi's still shady, hell, he was very much worthy of respect back in Higurashi, so if anything, this would count as a fall. Amakusa seems to have enough doubt within him to turn around though. I'm going to trust that.

By the way, they are going to revisit what Ange saw in that old man's house back during her trip to Niijima, right? It was such a short event and it hasn't even been referenced so far, I'm starting to think I was supposed to understand it and just didn't.

Ohhh right, Tohya promised (or at least said she'll think about it) to write a miracle! Look, I'm not necessarily expecting this story to have an everyone died and the whole game is just a long eulogy ending, but I'm also not 100% sure it won't. That one comment has given me a lot of hope for an actual happy ending.

That said, she's a bit of a sadist. An episode with Bern as the master is not unexpected, but it definitely won't be pretty. She's already taken control of Beato too, this one will probably be up to Battler alone.

And the number comes back in the ending, time to find out what it means. Wait, what am I saying, this is Episode 7, they're going to unveil all the big secrets, of course the numbers came back. Well, looking forward to it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Eluvianii said:

and the version in the menu is outdated

What do you mean it's outdated? How could it possibly be outdated?

 

9 minutes ago, Eluvianii said:

By the way, they are going to revisit what Ange saw in that old man's house back during her trip to Niijima, right? It was such a short event and it hasn't even been referenced so far, I'm starting to think I was supposed to understand it and just didn't.

No, they don't. You were supposed to figure it out. Did I not tell you? The thing she saw was in the background, it was a bunch of Sakutaro's in a bag

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, aneonfoxtribute said:

What do you mean it's outdated? How could it possibly be outdated?

Ok, my bad there, I should say different. The deaths you can see in the menu are the ones you were made aware of during the Episode, but they are different from the ones in the "credits". In the credits Battler appears as killed during the first twilight and Kanon during the second. Yet in the character list Battler is unconfirmed and Kanon you can't even try to kill. It was strange.

10 minutes ago, aneonfoxtribute said:

No, they don't. You were supposed to figure it out. Did I not tell you? The thing she saw was in the background, it was a bunch of Sakutaro's in a bag

Oh, I see. I guess I'll try to take  the clues in an eventual reread, as of right now I couldn't figure it out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Eluvianii said:

Ok, my bad there, I should say different. The deaths you can see in the menu are the ones you were made aware of during the Episode, but they are different from the ones in the "credits". In the credits Battler appears as killed during the first twilight and Kanon during the second. Yet in the character list Battler is unconfirmed and Kanon you can't even try to kill. It was strange.

That's intentional. There's nothing for the ones based on the credits. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Did a couple chapters in Episode 7. Intriguing doesn't begin to cover it.

If I got this right, this should be the imitation board in Featherine's place. So I won't be surprised if Battler is nowhere to be found.

For just a split second, I thought Diana was a human. It was terrifying.

I suppose Lion is the baby Natsuhi was supposed to take care of? Bern said she just put Beatrice's box inside a bigger box, and I suppose that means a bigger time frame. So saving the baby and Kinzo should be possible. At least I think. The idea of will could work to prevent most choices from being made, but Kinzo freaking died. From natural causes no less. Did she undo his years of drinking or something?

Lion's introduction was perfect. It took like 5 lines to establish both that he's the kindest person around, and that Will is the only person who can get on his nerves. Must. Not. Ship.

Wait, I skipped something important. They showed the outside world! There is stuff out there! Once it became clear that characters like the bunnies and the stakes were literally Maria's toys I started to doubt if any of the witch side characters were real. Save for Bern, Lambda, and Featherine of course. But the prologue to this chapter, that one is hard to doubt. There really is a second plane of existence somewhere that happens to be entirely based around murder mysteries. Damn.

I read somewhere that the tea party for this episode is something like a third of the episode. So main portion is going to be short. Given that and the weird start it had, I wouldn't be surprised if the whole episode is in the chapel.

Master doesn't want us to see Kanon and Shannon in the same room. Are we sure Shannon isn't Kanon in a dress? It's interesting that they're the only ones that don't remember Lion. Furthermore, Lion doesn't remember them. What if the pieces that aren't supposed to exist recognize one another? Lion was supposed to die and was brought to the present day artificially. Maybe it's the same for those two.

Oh, and speaking of will and artificial means, I guess the same method could be used to prevent that Battler exists, or him getting the name Battler, or him coming back to the main family. Either way, haven't seen his piece anywhere but it's not that unexpected.

"There is a bit of difficulty". Alright, so not the answer sheet I was anticipating. Cool.

Edited by Eluvianii
Another thing
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's ominous...

Alright, two chapters a day. A pretty nice pace that totally won't be broken once they start being three hours long.

Not a lot to say beyond a small detail namely HOLY CRAP THAT'S BEATRICE.

I don't know why I wasn't expecting it but I wasn't expecting it. It makes so much sense too. It was clear that Kinzo had gotten gold somewhere, but the element of some lady lending Kinzo 10 tons of gold alone was ridiculous enough that any "logical" explanations people came up with were similarly crazy.

But seeing now how similar they actually were, yep, makes sense. Gold wasn't even strictly hers so I'm wondering how this is going to go down but at least explaining how they met and fell in love is a massive piece of the puzzle falling into place.

Man, Ryukishi sure likes referencing WW2. He's pretty good at it though. He's avoiding pointing fingers at anyone and just focuses on the lives of the people from a ground level. I like it.

Oh yeah, forgot to mention this bit yesterday but isn't it strange that the family just readily accepts that this stranger is attending a funeral, that was likely a private affair, taking place in private property, that you have to take a boat to get to? Just a bit weird.

Lion had a bit of a reaction when Kinzo confessed to directing his love at the wrong people. Is Lion among the wrong people?

Wait. No. Waitwaitwaitwait.

Dude is 19. Beatrice II died 19 years ago. He has the blondest hair out of anyone currently alive in the family. Man, please tell me I'm reading too much into this...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Eluvianii said:

Oh yeah, forgot to mention this bit yesterday but isn't it strange that the family just readily accepts that this stranger is attending a funeral, that was likely a private affair, taking place in private property, that you have to take a boat to get to? Just a bit weird.

If this was a normal circumstance it would be very strange, but Will is very abnormal. It's a result of his ability that he isn't causing any questions, though I don't know if that ability has been mentioned yet

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...