Theories about Nomad and Aux

[bmcclure7]

32 minutes ago, Nameless said:

While the bond was almost completely broken, Syl wasn't dead, as she could still talk. The Stormfather was preventing her from going to Kaladin, only relenting when he swore the oaths. The Stormfather told Kaladin that Syl was completely dead, and there was no way to save her. We see this to be an obvious untruth when Syl speaks to Kaladin and the Stormfather at the end of WoR, completely conscious and sentient.

Shallan's straight up resworn oaths. How is Sig's spren so functional if he just broke his oaths?

Pretty much every spren we've met, and basically every side character for that fills the same role as Aux, has the annoying habit of forcing their Radiant/friends to be honest with themselves.

If he broke his oaths without justification, why would he say that they 'ended'? That's the whole point of this thread, after all. To try and theorize about why Sigzil says it this way.

"While the bond was almost completely broken, Syl wasn't dead, as she could still talk. The Stormfather was preventing her from going to Kaladin, only relenting when he swore the oaths. The Stormfather told Kaladin that Syl was completely dead, and there was no way to save her. We see this to be an obvious untruth when Syl speaks to Kaladin and the Stormfather at the end of WoR, completely conscious and sentient."

 

This is all you speculation not in the text. Even if it was it fits into my argument even better then yours because if you can "half way" break your oaths then we can dismiss any inconsistencies with Nomad by saying he "half way " broke his oaths. 

Come to think of it this might explain why Axu isn't mad at him and why he says his oaths "ended" without taking about them being broken.

 

"Shallan's straight up resworn oaths. How is Sig's spren so functional if he just broke his oaths?"

Wrong again Shallan sworn new oaths to pattern not testament. She has no need to reswear to testament.

 

 

"If he broke his oaths without justification, why would he say that they 'ended'? That's the whole point of this thread, after all. To try and theorize about why Sigzil says it this way."

And I answer it. Either his just using a  euthanism or your "half way" broken oath theory is correct. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by bmcclure7

[NameIess]

6 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

This is all you speculation not in the text. Even if it was it it in my argument even better because if you can "half way" break your oaths then we can dismiss any inconsistencies with Nomad by saying he "half way " broke his oaths. 

First off, no, it's not speculation. We see everything that I describe occur in WoR.

Second off, Aux wouldn't be dead if Sigzil 'half way' broke his oaths. Unless he's a CS.

10 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

Wrong again Shallan sworn new oaths to pattern not testament. She has no need to reswear to testament.

Then how come Testament's still dead?

11 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

And I answer it. Either his just using a  euthanism or your "half way" broken oath theory is correct. 

'half way' breaking his oaths (or breaking them as Kaladin did in WoR) would not kill Auxiliary.

[bmcclure7]

10 hours ago, Nameless said:

First off, no, it's not speculation. We see everything that I describe occur in WoR.

Second off, Aux wouldn't be dead if Sigzil 'half way' broke his oaths. Unless he's a CS.

Then how come Testament's still dead?

'half way' breaking his oaths (or breaking them as Kaladin did in WoR) would not kill Auxiliary.

"First off, no, it's not speculation. We see everything that I describe occur in WoR."

No, what we see is:

1.Syl died 

2. Stormfather confirmed her death. 

3. Kaliden brings her back to life

4.she tries to reunite with him but is stopped by the stormfather. 

5. Kaliden says the 3 ideal overriding the stormfather.

 Everything else is in your imagination. Never once dose syl say anything about being imprisoned by the stormfather. Never once did she or anyone else call the storm father a liar.

Hell  The fact that Spren can lie was a major  Reveal in rhythm of war . Do you really think Brandon Sanderson would make a major reveal out of something that he already revealed literally 2 books ago. 

 Besides this there's the fact that syl has said that it should be possible for the Spren killed in the recrience to be revived if only thier knights were still alive.  Are you suggest that the old night's radiance only half way killed thier Spren?

 Never once has anyone in the books said anything about halfway breaking an oath,  Or half way killing a Spren.  If I'm wrong show me. 

 

"Second off, Aux wouldn't be dead if Sigzil 'half way' broke his oaths. Unless he's a CS."

Sly died. Besides If Aux is CS then there would be no oaths to break in the first place. 

 

"Then how come Testament's still dead?"

Another easy question, as we saw with Kaladin, one has to confront the contradiction that caused you to break your oaths in the first place. For Kaladin that ment risking his life to save the king (a reverse of the decision to let the king die).

With  Shallan  Things are a bit more complicated her ideas are truths That she acknowledges about herself. After her mother's death she begins to suppress her memories. The very opposite of acknowledging truths. This is  Probably what caused her Spren to die. While it was not a conscious decision nevertheless it was a decision To suppress the truth to herself and is the very opposite of the ideals of the lightweavers.  To resurrect her spren she must deal with the trauma  That caused her to break her oaths in the first place. 

 

This has been her arc throughout the entire book. It is almost complete now I suspect it will be complete by the end of book 5, Once that happens she should automatically resurrect her Spren.  Just like we saw with Kaliden. 

 

"half way' breaking his oaths (or breaking them as Kaladin did in WoR) would not kill Auxiliary."

It killed sly. 

Edited July 27, 2022 by bmcclure7

[NameIess]

7 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

1.Syl died 

2. Stormfather confirmed her death. 

3. Kaliden brings her back to life

4.she tries to reunite with him but is stopped by the stormfather. 

5. Kaliden says the 3 ideal overriding the stormfather.

 Everything else is in your imagination. Never once dose syl say anything about being imprisoned by the stormfather. Never once did she or anyone else call the storm father a liar.

Hell  The fact that Spren can lie was a major  Reveal in rhythm of war . Do you really think Brandon Sanderson would make a major reveal out of something that he already revealed literally 2 books ago. 

 Besides this there's the fact that syl has said that it should be possible for the Spren killed in the recrience to be revived if only thier knights were still alive.  Are you suggest that the old night's radiance only half way killed thier Spren?

 Never once has anyone in the books said anything about halfway breaking an oath,  Or half way killing a Spren.  If I'm wrong show me. 

First off, Syl was hurt not by Kaladin breaking his oaths, but by because she used their weakened bond to get him Stormlight:

Quote

Questioner

So how did Shallan rescue Kaladin when they fell in the chasm?

Brandon Sanderson

She did not. It was actually Syl, but he was in the process of breaking the bond, and so she was able to get some Stormlight to him. But that is what really set it really poorly. Like you can imagine, she-- this bond was really a strain for her to use at that point, so it was her. But doing what she did just about destroyed her, which is why you don't hear from her after that.

Salt Lake City signing (March 29, 2014)

Second, when Kaladin gets his vision from the Stormfather, he is told that Syl is a deadeye. This is an outright lie, as deadeyes do not weep, yet Kaladin heard Syl weeping while he was trying to get Stormlight to fight the Chasmfiend. Importantly, the Stormfather also tells Kaladin, that Syl "Cannot be fixed. She is broken." This is even more of a lie than the first one, as even if she is broken Kaladin could heal her, and the Stormfather expresses no surprise when Syl is revived. In fact, when speaking to Dalinar, this is what he says when he leaves:

Quote

I am called. I must go. A daughter Disobeys.

WoR ch. 83, p. 1005

When speaking to Syl, the Stormfather's argument is not 'he killed you once, he'll do it again' it is 'he betrayed his oath, and he will (Future tense) kill you'

What does this all mean? Well, putting it all together, here's what I've got:

After Kaladin fell into the chasm, Syl was hurt, and the Stormfather ordered her to stay away from Kaladin, then told him that Syl was dead and there was no way to bring her back. If she had actually been dead, the Stormfather would've looked for a way to save her, not destroyed her only hope of survival by telling Kaladin he couldn't fix it. Syl of course ignored the Stormfather's order, returning to Kaladin to get him to swear the Third Ideal and revitalize their bond. The Stormfather notices this, goes to stop her, and Kaladin's Third Ideal scene plays out as we see it.

7 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

Hell  The fact that Spren can lie was a major  Reveal in rhythm of war . Do you really think Brandon Sanderson would make a major reveal out of something that he already revealed literally 2 books ago. 

Was it a major reveal? I never got that impression.

7 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

Besides this there's the fact that syl has said that it should be possible for the Spren killed in the recrience to be revived if only thier knights were still alive.  Are you suggest that the old night's radiance only half way killed thier Spren?

 Never once has anyone in the books said anything about halfway breaking an oath,  Or half way killing a Spren.  If I'm wrong show me. 

Their spren are quite dead. As evidenced by the fact that they're incapable of weeping.

7 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

Sly died. Besides If Aux is CS then there would be no oaths to break in the first place. 

The oaths would be from Sigzil's Honorspren, not Aux.

7 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

Another easy question, as we saw with Kaladin, one has to confront the contradiction that caused you to break your oaths in the first place. For Kaladin that ment risking his life to save the king (a reverse of the decision to let the king die).

With  Shallan  Things are a bit more complicated her ideas are truths That she acknowledges about herself. After her mother's death she begins to suppress her memories. The very opposite of acknowledging truths. This is  Probably what caused her Spren to die. While it was not a conscious decision nevertheless it was a decision To suppress the truth to herself and is the very opposite of the ideals of the lightweavers.  To resurrect her spren she must deal with the trauma  That caused her to break her oaths in the first place. 

Well... Shallan kinda did all that. She confronted the fact that she killed her mother, and killed her spren. She has her memories back. Unless you subscribe to the Shallan's mother was a Herald theory.

7 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

It killed sly. 

It hurt Syl. And breaking the oaths also broke the bond. How do Sig and Aux have a bond if Sigzil broke it?

[Frustration]

4 minutes ago, Nameless said:

This is an outright lie, as deadeyes do not weep, yet Kaladin heard Syl weeping while he was trying to get Stormlight to fight the Chasmfiend.

Their spren are quite dead. As evidenced by the fact that they're incapable of weeping.

Deadeyed blades scream however.

What's to say that bellow third ideal they don't cry? Or that they don't cry when bonded to their original radiants.

[NameIess]

Just now, Frustration said:

Deadeyed blades scream however.

What's to say that bellow third ideal they don't cry? Or that they don't cry when bonded to their original radiants.

Possible, but how would the Stormfather be able to command Syl enough to be able to say she was 'disobeying' if she was merely a deadeye?

[bmcclure7]

32 minutes ago, Nameless said:

First off, Syl was hurt not by Kaladin breaking his oaths, but by because she used their weakened bond to get him Stormlight:

Second, when Kaladin gets his vision from the Stormfather, he is told that Syl is a deadeye. This is an outright lie, as deadeyes do not weep, yet Kaladin heard Syl weeping while he was trying to get Stormlight to fight the Chasmfiend. Importantly, the Stormfather also tells Kaladin, that Syl "Cannot be fixed. She is broken." This is even more of a lie than the first one, as even if she is broken Kaladin could heal her, and the Stormfather expresses no surprise when Syl is revived. In fact, when speaking to Dalinar, this is what he says when he leaves:

When speaking to Syl, the Stormfather's argument is not 'he killed you once, he'll do it again' it is 'he betrayed his oath, and he will (Future tense) kill you'

What does this all mean? Well, putting it all together, here's what I've got:

After Kaladin fell into the chasm, Syl was hurt, and the Stormfather ordered her to stay away from Kaladin, then told him that Syl was dead and there was no way to bring her back. If she had actually been dead, the Stormfather would've looked for a way to save her, not destroyed her only hope of survival by telling Kaladin he couldn't fix it. Syl of course ignored the Stormfather's order, returning to Kaladin to get him to swear the Third Ideal and revitalize their bond. The Stormfather notices this, goes to stop her, and Kaladin's Third Ideal scene plays out as we see it.

Was it a major reveal? I never got that impression.

Their spren are quite dead. As evidenced by the fact that they're incapable of weeping.

The oaths would be from Sigzil's Honorspren, not Aux.

Well... Shallan kinda did all that. She confronted the fact that she killed her mother, and killed her spren. She has her memories back. Unless you subscribe to the Shallan's mother was a Herald theory.

It hurt Syl. And breaking the oaths also broke the bond. How do Sig and Aux have a bond if Sigzil broke it?

"Their spren are quite dead. As evidenced by the fact that they're incapable of weeping."

 Then either you're wrong or syl lied to Kaliden.  Because syl said they could be brought back,   And you say That that isn't possible unless thier "half way" dead.

 

"After Kaladin fell into the chasm, Syl was hurt, and the Stormfather ordered her to stay away from Kaladin, then told him that Syl was dead and there was no way to bring her back."

 This is all in your imagination never once does the storm father say he ordered Syl to do anything till after  Kaliden brings her back.   Syl never says " Don't feel bad kaliden I was never dead at all I was just a little hurt" 

 

  Besides why would the storm father lie in the 1st place what good would it do. It's not like distance  Could have saved her if  Kaliden made her a dead eyes. 

 

"When speaking to Syl, the Stormfather's argument is not 'he killed you once, he'll do it again' it is 'he betrayed his oath, and he will (Future tense) kill you'"

 It would still be the future if it did again I don't see what's your problem with this phrasing.   Because the storm far they're specifically did not say the word "again"  He could have just implied it he doesn't have to say everything outright. 

 

"not destroyed her only hope of survival by telling Kaladin he couldn't fix it."

 He didn't know. What happened to syl  Was unprecedented. No dead Spren   Had been  Revived up to that point, Because all of the former Knights radiance were long dead. 

 

"This is an outright lie, as deadeyes do not weep"

 Now you're just making things up, Show me one passes where it says dead eyes don't weep. Besides are you sure it said she was weeping and not screaming?  It's been a while since I reread that part in words of radiance. 

 

 

"Well... Shallan kinda did all that. She confronted the fact that she killed her mother, and killed her spren. She has her memories back. Unless you subscribe to the Shallan's mother was a Herald theory."

 

 I do but that's irrelevant. If Shallan  Had completely recovered from my from her trauma she wouldn't need brightness radiant. And would have absorbed her  As well. And she doesn't have all her memories as she does not remember fighting the Unmade as a child. 

 

"Was it a major reveal? I never got that impression."  

 

Seriously what do you think was the whole point of the shallan, pattern story line in row?

 

"It hurt Syl. And breaking the oaths also broke the bond. How do Sig and Aux have a bond if Sigzil broke it?"

 Again I've already explained this look at syl,  Or look at Testament.  Bonbs that are broken still remain.  Everything else can be explained by dawn shard. 

[NameIess]

2 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

 Then either you're wrong or syl lied to Kaliden.  Because syl said they could be brought back,   And you say That that isn't possible unless thier "half way" dead.

Full deadeyes are much harder to revive, as evidenced by Testament not being revived despite Shallan overcoming the trauma that caused her to go back on her oaths.

2 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

 This is all in your imagination never once does the storm father say he ordered Syl to do anything till after  Kaliden brings her back.   Syl never says " Don't feel bad kaliden I was never dead at all I was just a little hurt" 

Then why did he say "A daughter disobeys"? can Syl disobey if he didn't order her to do anything?

2 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

  Besides why would the storm father lie in the 1st place what good would it do. It's not like distance  Could have saved her if  Kaliden made her a dead eyes. 

Exactly. Why would he lie and doom Syl to becoming a deadeyes forever? The only explanation is that Syl wasn't dead, or the Stormfather didn't know she could be revived. Given that even Syl thought deadeyes could be revived if their Knight was still alive, I'm sure the Stormfather knew that as well, so it makes no sense for him to lie unless Syl was still alive.

2 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

 Now you're just making things up, Show me one passes where it says dead eyes don't weep. Besides are you sure it said she was weeping and not screaming?  It's been a while since I reread that part in words of radiance. 

Yes, it was weeping. I looked up the reference. Throughout the series deadeyes, besides Maya who is partially revived, have only ever screamed or whimpered. We've never seen them weep.

2 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

 I do but that's irrelevant. If Shallan  Had completely recovered from my from her trauma she wouldn't need brightness radiant. And would have absorbed her  As well. And she doesn't have all her memories as she does not remember fighting the Unmade as a child. 

Where are you getting that from? Shallan didn't fight an Unmade as a child. She fought the Unmade's influence on her family. And she said that she's going to absorb Radiant, once she's properly rested.

2 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

Seriously what do you think was the whole point of the shallan, pattern story line in row?

I don't know, but even Shallan knew that Pattern could lie. She just thought he was completely trustworthy. Never once did she go "oh snap, spren can lie? Storms, my whole life's been a lie!"

2 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

 Again I've already explained this look at syl,  Or look at Testament.  Bonbs that are broken still remain.  Everything else can be explained by dawn shard. 

Kaladin had no powers and could not talk to or see Syl. Shallan had a deadeye Blade, and apparently had powers, but we never really see her use them unless I'm mistaken. Neither Shallan nor Kaladin had a shapeshifting Blade, let alone a bond strong enough to do what Sigzil does.

[bmcclure7]

1 hour ago, Nameless said:

Full deadeyes are much harder to revive, as evidenced by Testament not being revived despite Shallan overcoming the trauma that caused her to go back on her oaths.

Then why did he say "A daughter disobeys"? can Syl disobey if he didn't order her to do anything?

Exactly. Why would he lie and doom Syl to becoming a deadeyes forever? The only explanation is that Syl wasn't dead, or the Stormfather didn't know she could be revived. Given that even Syl thought deadeyes could be revived if their Knight was still alive, I'm sure the Stormfather knew that as well, so it makes no sense for him to lie unless Syl was still alive.

Yes, it was weeping. I looked up the reference. Throughout the series deadeyes, besides Maya who is partially revived, have only ever screamed or whimpered. We've never seen them weep.

Where are you getting that from? Shallan didn't fight an Unmade as a child. She fought the Unmade's influence on her family. And she said that she's going to absorb Radiant, once she's properly rested.

I don't know, but even Shallan knew that Pattern could lie. She just thought he was completely trustworthy. Never once did she go "oh snap, spren can lie? Storms, my whole life's been a lie!"

Kaladin had no powers and could not talk to or see Syl. Shallan had a deadeye Blade, and apparently had powers, but we never really see her use them unless I'm mistaken. Neither Shallan nor Kaladin had a shapeshifting Blade, let alone a bond strong enough to do what Sigzil does.

"Full deadeyes are much harder to revive, as evidenced by Testament not being revived despite Shallan overcoming the trauma that caused her to go back on her oaths."

 I've already explained  that Shallan  Has not overcome her trauma read my last comment.

 

Never once has the word fool dead eyes or half at dead eyes been used in the book or in words of Brandon you're literally making up terms. This isn't a thing if it is show me in the book. 

 

"Exactly. Why would he lie and doom Syl to becoming a deadeyes forever? The only explanation is that Syl wasn't dead, or the Stormfather didn't know she could be revived. Given that even Syl thought deadeyes could be revived if their Knight was still alive, I'm sure the Stormfather knew that as well, so it makes no sense for him to lie unless Syl was still alive."

 Syl  Didn't think that tell After she had been revived.  It was only with the knowledge that could be done that she could speculate on that. Before that she wouldn't have known neither would have any one else. 

 

You seem to be missing the point of what I was saying. My point is that the storm's father lie makes no sense in your theory  lying would not have saved syl. 

 

"Where are you getting that from? Shallan didn't fight an Unmade as a child. She fought the Unmade's influence on her family. And she said that she's going to absorb Radiant, once she's properly rested."

 No she said she would absorb radiant when when the time was right like she did veil. It's not like it takes energy to absorb a personality she doesn't have to rest up.

And yes that's what I am talking about fighting the unmade's influence. She hasn't said anything about fighting any of the unmade influence on her family so I would assume that then she has not fully unlocked her memory the rest is probably in brightness radiant.

 

 

"Kaladin had no powers and could not talk to or see Syl. Shallan had a deadeye Blade, and apparently had powers, but we never really see her use them unless I'm mistaken. Neither Shallan nor Kaladin had a shapeshifting Blade, let alone a bond strong enough to do what Sigzil does."

 Again all this can be explained by a dawnshard.   And your contradicting yourself,  you laid earlier that Kaladin could hear sly.

 

 

"I don't know, but even Shallan knew that Pattern could lie. She just thought he was completely trustworthy. Never once did she go "oh snap, spren can lie? Storms, my whole life's been a lie!""

 Actually she does do you not remember rhythm of war. 

 

 

 

"Yes, it was weeping. I looked up the reference. Throughout the series deadeyes, besides Maya who is partially revived, have only ever screamed or whimpered. We've never seen them weep."

 But it never says anywhere that they can't. Again you're making stuff up.  And you're also wrong you whimper when you're weeping. I have never ever seen anyone whimper without weeping.  

Edited July 27, 2022 by bmcclure7

[NameIess]

24 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

 I've already explained  that Shallan  Has not overcome her trauma read my last comment.

She's started overcoming her trauma, I would say she is very close to doing so. Yet there is hardly any difference in her spren.

25 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

Never once has the word fool dead eyes or half at dead eyes been used in the book or in words of Brandon you're literally making up terms. This isn't a thing if it is show me in the book. 

Actually, you're the one making up terms. I never used those. I was just making a distinction between what happened to Syl and what happened to Testament, because the outcome was clearly very different. Testament is not revived even after Shallan has sworn multiple oaths, and Syl was definitely alive even before Kaladin swore the third ideal, and implied to be alive even before that.

30 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

 Syl  Didn't think that tell After she had been revived.  It was only with the knowledge that could be done that she could speculate on that. Before that she wouldn't have known neither would have any one else. 

The Stormfather did not act even the slightest bit surprised when he realized Syl was alive, trying to rebond with Kaladin. If he was absolutely certain that Syl was dead forever, with no way to bring her back, he would have had at least some reaction beyond 'oh shoot, my daughter's being disobedient. Gotta go deal with that'.

32 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

You seem to be missing the point of what I was saying. My point is that the storm's father lie makes no sense in your theory  lying would not have saved syl. 

Well, he was obviously lying, as evidenced by Syl's revival and his reaction to it.

33 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

 No she said she would absorb radiant when when the time was right like she did veil. It's not like it takes energy to absorb a personality he died his personality she doesn't have to rest up 1st.

She said she would do it 'when they found the right path' as in, when they figure out how to do so. Shallan is actively working towards overcoming her trauma, and has faced the trauma related to Testament.

38 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

And yes that's what I am talking about fighting the unmade influence. He hasn't said anything about fighting any of the unmade influence on her family so I would assume that then she has not fully unlocked her memory the rest is probably in brightness radiant.

Did you miss her flashbacks? That's what she was doing. Her father's anger, Nan Balat's sadistic tendencies, Rushu's gambling addiction, Wikim's suicidal depression, those are all due (mostly or partially) to the Unmade's influence.

Quote

Questioner

There's a scene where you can see from the perspective of Nan Balat, Shallan's brother, where he's maiming an insect. It's described as soothing his aches. Is that in any way related to how Kaladin feels depressed and down during the Weeping even in his early childhood?

Brandon Sanderson

What's happening to Nan Balat is magically enhanced. What's happening to Kaladin is mostly just chemical depression. Be he is really too young to be diagnosed with depression during some of these events, but he's got the seeds in there. So Kaladin is not magically depressed. Kaladin is just legitimatly a person with depression. Nan Balat... What's up with him is... ah... being exaggerated by certain forces moving in on Roshar. (last bit is a bit indistinctive)

Leipzig Book Fair (March 24, 2017)

 

41 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

 Again all this can be explained by a dawnshard.   And contradicting yourself,  you laid earlier that Kaladin could hear sly.

Why would a Dawnshard fix the bond? Kaladin could only hear Syl when he was straining for Stormlight so that he could protect Shallan. He couldn't hold a full conversation with her like Sigzil can with Aux.

45 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

 Actually she does do you not remember rhythm of war. 

No, she doesn't. Her exact reaction when considering Pattern as a traitor is:

Quote

He loved lies, but she doubted he could manage one himself. At least not one that would fool Veil.

RoW ch. 36 p. 459

Then when she catches Pattern in a lie, this is her reaction:

Quote

Pattern was lying to her. Pattern was lying. Veil couldn't take anything for granted any longer. She couldn't assume anyone was trustworthy. She had to be careful, redouble her defenses, and keep Shallan safe.

Nowhere does she go 'wait, spren can lie?'. She has what is, in my opinion, a very rational reaction to realizing that the being whose soul is literally bonded to her own is lying to her. Take out Pattern and replace him with Adolin, she'd likely have the same reaction.

51 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

 But it never says anywhere that they can't. Again you're making stuff up.  And you're also wrong you whimper when you're weeping. I have never ever seen anyone whimper without weeping.  

Dalinar when holding Oathbringer:

Quote

They weren't the shrill, painful shrieks he'd heard when touching other Blades, but more of a whimper. The sound of a man backed into a corner, thoroughly beaten and facing something terrible, but too tired to keep screaming.

OB ch. 28 p. 287

whimpering, not screaming. And not weeping either. We've never seen a deadeye weep, and we know that Syl was different from other deadeyes because of the ease of her revival (If such a revival even took place)

[bmcclure7]

3 hours ago, Nameless said:

She's started overcoming her trauma, I would say she is very close to doing so. Yet there is hardly any difference in her spren.

Actually, you're the one making up terms. I never used those. I was just making a distinction between what happened to Syl and what happened to Testament, because the outcome was clearly very different. Testament is not revived even after Shallan has sworn multiple oaths, and Syl was definitely alive even before Kaladin swore the third ideal, and implied to be alive even before that.

The Stormfather did not act even the slightest bit surprised when he realized Syl was alive, trying to rebond with Kaladin. If he was absolutely certain that Syl was dead forever, with no way to bring her back, he would have had at least some reaction beyond 'oh shoot, my daughter's being disobedient. Gotta go deal with that'.

Well, he was obviously lying, as evidenced by Syl's revival and his reaction to it.

She said she would do it 'when they found the right path' as in, when they figure out how to do so. Shallan is actively working towards overcoming her trauma, and has faced the trauma related to Testament.

Did you miss her flashbacks? That's what she was doing. Her father's anger, Nan Balat's sadistic tendencies, Rushu's gambling addiction, Wikim's suicidal depression, those are all due (mostly or partially) to the Unmade's influence.

 

Why would a Dawnshard fix the bond? Kaladin could only hear Syl when he was straining for Stormlight so that he could protect Shallan. He couldn't hold a full conversation with her like Sigzil can with Aux.

No, she doesn't. Her exact reaction when considering Pattern as a traitor is:

Then when she catches Pattern in a lie, this is her reaction:

Nowhere does she go 'wait, spren can lie?'. She has what is, in my opinion, a very rational reaction to realizing that the being whose soul is literally bonded to her own is lying to her. Take out Pattern and replace him with Adolin, she'd likely have the same reaction.

Dalinar when holding Oathbringer:

whimpering, not screaming. And not weeping either. We've never seen a deadeye weep, and we know that Syl was different from other deadeyes because of the ease of her revival (If such a revival even took place)

"She's started overcoming her trauma, I would say she is very close to doing so. Yet there is hardly any difference in her spren."

And there should be it's a switch not a process we learned that from sly

 

"Nowhere does she go 'wait, spren can lie?'. "

If i recall correctly those are almost her exact words I suggest you reread it

"Actually, you're the one making up terms. "

Then show me where " half dead, half broken, half deadeye" appear in the text

 

"whimpering, not screaming. And not weeping either. We've never seen a deadeye weep,"

So just because we haven't seen it doesn't mean it's unusual.  If it were Brandon Sanderson would have put it in the text.

"and we know that Syl was different from other deadeyes because of the ease of her revival (If such a revival even took place)"

We have never seen another Spren brought back How could we possibly make a comparison that doesn't exist?

 

 

Did you miss her flashbacks? That's what she was doing. Her father's anger, Nan Balat's sadistic tendencies, Rushu's gambling addiction, Wikim's suicidal depression, those are all due (mostly or partially) to the Unmade's influence.

" Perhaps I reread the word of Brandon.  But I'm pretty sure he talked about prior to her mother's death. 

 

[NameIess]

Just now, bmcclure7 said:

And there should be it's a switch not a process we learned that from sly

Syl was alive before Kaladin swore the Third ideal. How come Testament's still basically completely dead, unable to speak at all?

1 minute ago, bmcclure7 said:

If i recall correctly those are almost her exact words I suggest you reread it

I literally quoted those words exactly, and explained why I didn't think they were intended to be seen as a reveal.

3 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

Then show me where " half dead, half broken, half deadeye" appear in the text

I don't believe I ever used any of those terms. You're the one who started using them. I think that Syl was hurt when she got Kaladin some Stormlight, and the bond was practically broken. However, I don't think she was a true deadeye. Otherwise it would have been much harder to heal her. We know spren can get hurt, Syl hibernated for years after her Knight's death and Notum got hurt by being stabbed a bunch, so I'm not making too big of a stretch.

7 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

So just because we haven't seen it doesn't mean it's unusual.  If it were Brandon Sanderson would have put it in the text.

Why would he put that in there? It's not that important of a point.

8 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

We have never seen another Spren brought back How could we possibly make a comparison that doesn't exist?

We have seen Testament, a spren deadeye who has not been revived as easily as Syl.

[teknopathetic he/him]

Another possibility for being released from the Oaths Team Rosier really really losing in book 5. It could be anything from the magic system being totally remade by cultivation and Odium all the way to Rosier being completely exploded and the entire idea of oaths goes away entirely. 

Edited August 31, 2022 by teknopathetic

[Humble_Knight]

I think the simplest explanation is that Aux was his spren that he killed at some point. Probably when he chose to hide rather than protect some group of people. Yes, I know he says his spren is female in RoW, but Aux was originally female when Brandon wrote this book. Aux 's speaking mannerisms seem pretty honorspren-y to me, they have that same casual moral and positionally superior that Syl has sometimes. 

Aux asks "What oaths?" as a sarcastic response to Nomad relying on broken oaths to prevent his torment. Aux says Nomad killed him, in a way that sounds like how spren talk about deadeyes. The deadeye we know best is Maya, who starts to recover when Adolin treats her as a person and bonds with her, even without oaths. Nomad has had centuries to millennia to restore Aux, as compared to the decade or so Adolin has had.  

Nomad produces a shardblade and makes a jump similar to Kaladin's from TWoK. Both happen when Nomad is thinking about and acting on protecting people. I think involving weird edge cases is unnecessary, when each weird thing is easily explained by concepts we already know about.