lukaash Posted December 24, 2021 Report Share Posted December 24, 2021 If fortune is the ability to see the future, does that mean that ever shard holds a lot of innate fortune? Or does the future sight come through some other means (this can include just being a shard gives foresight and there is no real explanation)? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Trusk'our Posted December 24, 2021 Report Share Posted December 24, 2021 4 hours ago, lukaash said: If fortune is the ability to see the future, does that mean that ever shard holds a lot of innate fortune? Or does the future sight come through some other means (this can include just being a shard gives foresight and there is no real explanation)? Seeing the future always involves access to the spiritual realm, but doesn't necessarily require the manipulation of Fortune. The use of Fortune does allow access to the spiritual realm, however. Quote Chaos Odium said to Taravangian, "You did this without access to Fortune or the Spiritual Realm?" How does one access Fortune without the Spiritual Realm or Feruchemical chromium, as almost all future sight tends to utilize the Spiritual Realm in some way? Brandon Sanderson So, that line is mostly just me saying... *long pause* I think you're picking apart those things too much. Chaos Right, that makes sense. Hey, Odium said it, so I didn't know-- Gotta take that seriously, so. Brandon Sanderson So, yeah, don't read too much into picking apart those two things. You can read it as-- Honestly, that is me making sure I am being clear in the text. Chaos That there are those are two different things. Brandon Sanderson Yeah those are two different things, but they are just interrelated. Fortune is a property, and the Spiritual Realm is a place, but not a place. Do you know what I mean? To use Fortune, you're always involving the Spiritual Realm, but in the Spiritual Realm, you're not always involving Fortune. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Lightblood Posted December 24, 2021 Report Share Posted December 24, 2021 I always saw those two things as separate but related. We know that Hoid uses Fortune to know where he's supposed to be all the time, and sometimes its even wrong (like when he attempted to become an elantrian). Fortune, Hoid's at least, which is the only fortune we've seen so far as we haven't seen any chromium mistings. (right?) So as far as I've been able to piece together Fortune nudges the user to where he's supposed to be when he's supposed to be there. Often times Hoid has stated he doesn't really know why he is where he is or is suprised by who he meets there (Shallan when he's driving the cart in WoR). So my view on fortune is it takes your goal as seen through your spiritual self, your perfect self, and while not allowing you to actually see into the spiritual realm just gives you hints on how to get there. Glimpses into the future using the spiritual realm are normally more definite, not nudges as much as this is a possibility that could happen. Instead of verbal directions its more of a road map (albeit one that could change do to the nature of the ever changing future). The only beings that ever gain access to the Spiritual realm itself is the returned, though infrequently, and of course the shards themselves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Frustration Posted December 24, 2021 Report Share Posted December 24, 2021 13 hours ago, Trusk'our said: Seeing the future always involves access to the spiritual realm, but doesn't necessarily require the manipulation of Fortune. The use of Fortune does allow access to the spiritual realm, however. I read that the complete opposite way, future sight always requires the use of Fortune, and Fortune requires the SR, however the SR does not require the ue of fortune. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 +Oltux72 Posted December 24, 2021 Report Share Posted December 24, 2021 37 minutes ago, Frustration said: I read that the complete opposite way, future sight always requires the use of Fortune, The WoB is pretty clear that Futuresight is different from Fortune. Futuresight is what atium and electrum give allomancers. It allows seeing the future. That cannot be what Hoid uses, or he would know why he is needed at the places he needs to be. 37 minutes ago, Frustration said: and Fortune requires the SR, however the SR does not require the ue of fortune. Futuresight also requites the SR. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Frustration Posted December 24, 2021 Report Share Posted December 24, 2021 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Oltux72 said: The WoB is pretty clear that Futuresight is different from Fortune. Futuresight is what atium and electrum give allomancers. It allows seeing the future. That cannot be what Hoid uses, or he would know why he is needed at the places he needs to be. Connection can be used to speak any language, but duralumin medalions can only allow you to speak the native tounge of the land you are on. Can you name a future sight that we know for certain does not use Fortune? 40 minutes ago, Oltux72 said: Futuresight also requites the SR. That would not change if it required Fortune. Edited December 24, 2021 by Frustration 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 +Oltux72 Posted December 24, 2021 Report Share Posted December 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Frustration said: Connection can be used to speak any language, but duralumin medalions can only allow you to speak the native tounge of the land you are on. That may be because the users or the chargers have no clear idea of what they are doing. 1 hour ago, Frustration said: Can you name a future sight that we know for certain does not use Fortune? Certain is a very big word. The mechanics of what atium, electrum and Renarin are doing are incompatible with what Hoid and the assassin we saw in Elantris were doing. But to be certain we'd have to have comparable time frames. 1 hour ago, Frustration said: That would not change if it required Fortune. Yes. But how would you steal futuresight with hemalurgy? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Frustration Posted December 24, 2021 Report Share Posted December 24, 2021 Just now, Oltux72 said: That may be because the users or the chargers have no clear idea of what they are doing. Or that Medallions are more limited than other forms of Investiture, why would invested forms of Fortune be different, some being better than others, and others showing different points in time? 2 minutes ago, Oltux72 said: Certain is a very big word. The mechanics of what atium, electrum and Renarin are doing are incompatible with what Hoid and the assassin we saw in Elantris were doing. But to be certain we'd have to have comparable time frames. How are they incompatable? They would just be different kinds and forms, Atium when burned with duralumin lets you see the future in similar ways to the shards, same with electrum. 7 minutes ago, Oltux72 said: Yes. But how would you steal futuresight with hemalurgy? Aside from stealing the invested art that provides it, my guess would be Chromium. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 NameIess Posted December 24, 2021 Report Share Posted December 24, 2021 4 hours ago, Frustration said: Can you name a future sight that we know for certain does not use Fortune? Taravangian saw the future without Fortune. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Frustration Posted December 25, 2021 Report Share Posted December 25, 2021 3 hours ago, Nameless said: Taravangian saw the future without Fortune. Did he see the future, or was he just smart? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 NameIess Posted December 25, 2021 Report Share Posted December 25, 2021 6 minutes ago, Frustration said: Did he see the future, or was he just smart? He saw the future. By being smart. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Frustration Posted December 25, 2021 Report Share Posted December 25, 2021 56 minutes ago, Nameless said: He saw the future. By being smart. If it's all intelligence than it isn't future sight. Someone who has memorized all the positions a chess board can be in after 2 turns didn't see the future, they were just smart. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 NameIess Posted December 25, 2021 Report Share Posted December 25, 2021 9 hours ago, Frustration said: If it's all intelligence than it isn't future sight. Someone who has memorized all the positions a chess board can be in after 2 turns didn't see the future, they were just smart. For all effects and purposes, he saw the future. His predictions for the future were as accurate as a shard's, although on a smaller scale. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Frustration Posted December 25, 2021 Report Share Posted December 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Nameless said: For all effects and purposes, he saw the future. His predictions for the future were as accurate as a shard's, although on a smaller scale. You have to remember that his predictions were supported by death rattles, and continuously modified. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Trusk'our Posted December 25, 2021 Report Share Posted December 25, 2021 5 hours ago, Frustration said: You have to remember that his predictions were supported by death rattles, and continuously modified. I suppose that 'future sight' as an ability on it's own wouldn't count as what Taravangian was doing, really, even if he predicted the future using a combination of tools to do so. I would count 'future sight' as any kind of ability to accurately predict the future, whether it be Feruchemical chromium, allomantic electrum, Renarin's visions, or Sak's death prediction. 16 hours ago, Nameless said: He saw the future. By being smart. Yeah, Tarivangian accurately predicted the future, even if he used indirect methods of doing so. But I'm not sure that I would count it as 'future sight' since he didn't personally see into the spiritual realm, but he did predict the future without needing it. I suppose a good way of putting the question to rest of whether he actually used future sight after a fashion would be if his own predictions tampered with others' abilities to predict the future, just as when anyone who uses future sight with interfere with anyone else trying to use it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Question
lukaash
If fortune is the ability to see the future, does that mean that ever shard holds a lot of innate fortune? Or does the future sight come through some other means (this can include just being a shard gives foresight and there is no real explanation)?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
14 answers to this question
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.