Pathfinder Posted December 24, 2021 Posted December 24, 2021 1 minute ago, KaladinWorldsinger said: I just popped into the discussion because I did not think Brandon's fanbase was any more religious than others. Then I went on an Ill-considered tangent about how people can still be comfortable with the core motifs. I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. Sorry if I was rude No worries. I did not take any offense. I just didn't want my posts to come across with any ill intent. I was genuinely perplexed. 1
Frustration Posted December 24, 2021 Posted December 24, 2021 3 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said: I just popped into the discussion because I did not think Brandon's fanbase was any more religious than others. Then I went on an Ill-considered tangent about how people can still be comfortable with the core motifs. I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. Sorry if I was rude There are rather large groups of Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and members of the Jewish community here.
Sp00ks Posted December 24, 2021 Posted December 24, 2021 3 hours ago, Pathfinder said: No worries. I did not take any offense. I just didn't want my posts to come across with any ill intent. I was genuinely perplexed. Your ill Intent likely wasn't felt by anyone, as it lacked ill Command
KaladinWorldsinger Posted December 25, 2021 Posted December 25, 2021 15 hours ago, Frustration said: There are rather large groups of Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and members of the Jewish community here. Huh, interesting. Large as In how large? Does anyone know?
Frustration Posted December 25, 2021 Posted December 25, 2021 6 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said: Huh, interesting. Large as In how large? Does anyone know? Well I haven't sat down to get the actual number, but there's a decent amount.
Sp00ks Posted December 25, 2021 Posted December 25, 2021 @Frustration 8 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said: Huh, interesting. Large as In how large? Does anyone know? I honestly didn't expect there to be that many, but judging by this thread, there's actually a LOT. This is surprising to me since I personally don't interact with many irl, though that's probably since I live on the East Coast
cometaryorbit Posted December 28, 2021 Posted December 28, 2021 I'd actually say Jasnah's ethics are probably much more consistent than most people's*, but they are rather unusual, and so it's not easy to say how she'd come down on an issue like this - especially since what I'd expect to be the key issue (what exactly does Jasnah think 'soul damage' means) is unknown. *Jasnah comes across as having thought her beliefs and actions through much more than most people do, and there's a WoB backing this up - so I think this is actually true, not just how she wishes to present herself. Her small number of POVs makes it kind of hard to tell how much of her hyper-rational approach is really who she internally is vs. how she wants people to see her. the way she reacts to the truth about the Heralds in Oathbringer implies a deep-seated fear of mental instability, but on the other hand Ivory's comment about how she wasn't bothered by the truth about the Recreance but it might still break most Radiants implies she really is very exceptionally far to the rational side of a rational/emotional divide.
Pathfinder Posted December 28, 2021 Posted December 28, 2021 11 hours ago, cometaryorbit said: Her small number of POVs makes it kind of hard to tell how much of her hyper-rational approach is really who she internally is vs. how she wants people to see her. the way she reacts to the truth about the Heralds in Oathbringer implies a deep-seated fear of mental instability, but on the other hand Ivory's comment about how she wasn't bothered by the truth about the Recreance but it might still break most Radiants implies she really is very exceptionally far to the rational side of a rational/emotional divide. Personally I believe that to be emotional resilience. It does not require logic to over rule emotion. If you wish me to elaborate I will at request.
cometaryorbit Posted December 28, 2021 Posted December 28, 2021 4 hours ago, Pathfinder said: Personally I believe that to be emotional resilience. It totally could be. I don't know, just something about the wording of that Jasnah/Ivory exchange struck me as Ivory implying that Jasnah actually approaches things in a radically different way than most people - a qualitative difference rather than a quantitative one.
Pathfinder Posted December 28, 2021 Posted December 28, 2021 (edited) 54 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said: It totally could be. I don't know, just something about the wording of that Jasnah/Ivory exchange struck me as Ivory implying that Jasnah actually approaches things in a radically different way than most people - a qualitative difference rather than a quantitative one. Totally respect your reading of it. My question is not to prove anything or offer any commentary. Just to understand better. The implication I got from your earlier post was that Jasnah was "running the numbers" as it were, which you believe is different than most people who examine the situation at hand. Quantitative deals in numbers. 6 out of 10 people chose A over B. Qualitative examines concepts. So for instance interviews and questions to find out why a person chose A over B. I am not trying to imply you don't know the terms. I just want to make sure I understand what you are saying. Are you saying Jasnah makes decisions more towards numerics, or values? and now re-reading it, I may have misread. That it is not that she examines things qualitatively or quantitatively, but that the situation itself is more qualitative rather than quantitative? But then again, I am unsure. Could you elaborate? Just so I can understand better. Edited December 28, 2021 by Pathfinder
cometaryorbit Posted December 28, 2021 Posted December 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, Pathfinder said: and now re-reading it, I may have misread. That it is not that she examines things qualitatively or quantitatively, but that the situation itself is more qualitative rather than quantitative? Yes, exactly. I meant that the difference between Jasnah's approach to the world and that of other Radiants/other people is a qualitative difference (she looks at the world in a fundamentally different way) not just a quantitative difference (e.g. she is more emotionally resilient than most people). Not saying this is necessarily correct, but that's what I thought the implication was... (Oathbringer chapter 47) Quote "Ivory, you think all humans are unstable." "Not you," he said, lifting his chin. "You are like a spren. You think by facts. You change not on simple whims. You are as you are." She gave him a flat stare. "Mostly," he added. "Mostly. But it is, Jasnah. Compared to other humans, you are practically a stone!" Quote "We must tell the others what we learned from Wit, Ivory. Eventually, this secret must be known." "Jasnah, no. It would be the end. Another Recreance." "The truth has not destroyed me." "You are special. No knowledge is that can destroy you. But the others..." This chapter is probably our best insight so far into who Jasnah actually is vs. the role she is nearly always playing. My 'rational/emotional divide' phrasing is probably actually not the right wording, Jasnah says she's not really that much less emotional than other people... Quote "You call me logical," Jasnah whispered. "It's untrue, as I let my passions rule me as much as many. In my times of peace, however, my mind has always been the one thing I could rely upon." Except once. A better way to phrase what I really meant is that she doesn't seem to have the tendency/temptation toward wishful thinking/denial or the cognitive biases that most people do. She always faces the facts as they are - "You think by facts". This is IMO probably a result of having trained herself this way, since it seems that her core fear is of insanity, so she has probably focused her self-image around rationality. 1
Pathfinder Posted December 28, 2021 Posted December 28, 2021 14 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said: Yes, exactly. I meant that the difference between Jasnah's approach to the world and that of other Radiants/other people is a qualitative difference (she looks at the world in a fundamentally different way) not just a quantitative difference (e.g. she is more emotionally resilient than most people). Not saying this is necessarily correct, but that's what I thought the implication was... (Oathbringer chapter 47) This chapter is probably our best insight so far into who Jasnah actually is vs. the role she is nearly always playing. My 'rational/emotional divide' phrasing is probably actually not the right wording, Jasnah says she's not really that much less emotional than other people... A better way to phrase what I really meant is that she doesn't seem to have the tendency/temptation toward wishful thinking/denial or the cognitive biases that most people do. She always faces the facts as they are - "You think by facts". This is IMO probably a result of having trained herself this way, since it seems that her core fear is of insanity, so she has probably focused her self-image around rationality. So I do disagree with this and have my reasons to, but as I was asking just for clarity and to better understand, I will leave things there. Thank you for explaining!
Pathfinder Posted December 29, 2021 Posted December 29, 2021 On 12/25/2021 at 3:20 AM, KaladinWorldsinger said: Huh, interesting. Large as In how large? Does anyone know? So only commenting on this to give a little peak behind the curtain as how qualitative and quantitative research is done. Finding out is theoretically easy, but time consuming. The thread that sp00ks mentions that is a public poll asking an individual's religious affiliation is not the only way to determine that data. I have listed them below: 1. That is not the only thread that has done so. I believe there are two others that specifically polled regarding religious affiliation 2. There are two or more threads that inquire as to whether an individual went on their mission, what the content of their mission was, and where the mission took place. It is reasonable to conclude that an individual that replies to such a thread, stating that they undertook a mission or intend to do so, would be affiliated with such a religion 3. On threads that have nothing to do with Jasnah (for instance discussing Dalinar and the Rift. There are others), there have been posts where the posters voluntarily chose to state their religious affiliation, that said affiliation informs on their ethics and morality, and then proceed to explain how that affects their view of the scenario. So the reason why I say it is easy, is because no permissions would be required. No issues of privacy. No approval necessary. All metrics were provided voluntarily, in a public forum, at the user's own choosing without any prompting. Now obviously if I were to actually conduct the study, I would feel more comfortable confirming approval with the individuals who run the site, as well as reach out to all participants to check they are ok with being included in the study. This would also be beneficial as some of the metrics may have changed over time, (people changing their religious affiliation one way or the other since the time of posting). So following up and asking would be just good practice. Given the threads that would need to be tracked down, coupled with the variable response time of the participants (some have not posted in some time, could be on a mission, or just not active any longer) is what mainly results in the issue of the study being lengthy. This is just my way of geeking out and explaining. Not meant to prove any point, or endorse any view.
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