Why Did Vin Avoid Hoid?

No, what he's saying is that Hoid has every Innate Investiture, so there is a possibility that he awoken the Feruchemical aspect of it. This awakening might need to be external factors, like Mistborn; or can just happen, like Returning, or the Shaod.

WARNING! A shameless plug for a personal theory is about to occur. Please take any safety precautions you deem necessary.

If you like the idea of Hoid having an innate investiture that allows him to potentially use any shardic magic system, I invite you to peruse my 'Yolen DNA is Archetype DNA' conveniently accessed by clicking on the appropriate link in my signature below.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Shardlet

I'd speculate that identity attunement to feruchemy would involve a form of spiritual balance or a zen-type philosophical outlook. That attitude prevailed Terris culture. It could also be something like being born on Scadrial or living on the planet for a time. 

 

Back to the main post, I've always assumed Hoid was actively using lightweaving to change his appearance and Vin noticed the ripples of his actions with her double seeker powers. 

I think you may be reading real world cultures you associate Terris with, into the Terris culture (if that makes any sense).  Yes, keepers would go into a trancelike state when filling multiple metalminds.  But, we have very little info, that I can recall, about Terris culture, pre- or post-ascension.  And I suspect that pre-ascension Terris culture bears very little resemblance to post-ascension (at least at the time of TFE) Terris culture.

Lurking around looking for other things I just came up with another idea, why Vin avoided Hoid.

 

I could imagine that Vin kind of feels (burning bronze, as I think she permanently does) that Hoid had the lerasium bead; more concretely: that Hoid incorporated the lerasium bead and therefor is a "Mistborn." 

 

We know that Hoid has a bead of lerasium. 

 

Mike Cockrum (23 January 2013)
How many shards has Hoid received powers from, whether taken, stolen, given, etc.?

 

Brandon Sanderson (23 January 2013)
Well, he has a bead of Lerasium.

 

source

 

 

And we know that ingesting lerasium the first time one burns it. 

 

17th Shard

If a Mistborn burns lerasium, as in, not just ingests it, what effect would it grant Allomantically?

 

Brandon Sanderson

That is a RAFO. It would do something, but the thing you've gotta remember is that, when ingesting lerasium for the first time and gaining the powers, your body is actually burning it. Think of lerasium as a metal anyone can burn. Does that make sense?

 

 

source

 

 

In The Letter Hoid tells the (yet unknown) recepient: 

 

 

Let me first assure you that the element is quite safe. I have found a good home for it. I protect its safety like I protect my own skin, you might say.

 

TWoK, Epigraph Chapter 14 

 

 

NeverKnowsBest
In Mistborn 3, what spooked Vin off from meeting Hoid? (My theory is Ruin's influence, because he didn't want Hoid interfering(sub question that just occurred to me. Was Ruin aware of Hoid on Scadrial?)

Brandon Sanderson
Ha. Well, by this point Hoid had been to the Well--getting there just before Vin--and had retrieved something from it. That should have been enough to get him to leave the planet entirely, but he got involved in events. (He tends to do that.) It's pie in the sky, but I would someday like to do parallel novel to the Mistborn series with Hoid in the background like they did in the second(?) back to the future move. I don't know that I'll ever be able to do it, but we shall see. I would answer this question there.

Footnote
Brandon has since confirmed that the thing Hoid took from the Chamber of Ascension was a bead of lerasium. (my annotation: that's quoted above)

 

source

 

 

 

All this together let me come up with this idea. I think Hoid became a Mistborn (or sort of a Mistborn) and, living on Scadrial with Allomancy around, he might have given away allomantic impulses that Vin felt but seemed strange to her (as for Hoid isn't native to Scadrial and his allomantic powers might "sound" different to those Vin is used to.

 

 

edit -- I forgot an important part  (the fourth quote)

Edited August 3, 2013 by Meg

I should think that allomantic pulses are allomantic pulses, and if she'd felt strange allomantic pulses it would have been mentioned specifically.

I think... that everyone who has commented so far in this thread makes me think of Elend.

 

I don't have the quote on me (I'll try to find it once I get back from lunch). I can't even recall which book it's in. But Vin doesn't need a reason for what she does, which is what fascinates and somewhat confuses Elend. He sometimes has trouble accepting that she sometimes does things just because they seem right at the time, and she never feels compelled to explain why it should be so, or to justify her actions.

 

So. I don't think Hoid was putting off any odd Allomantic pulses, I don't think she picked up his lightweaving or realized he wasn't a native Scadrian, I don't think she found it odd a beggar would hum or anything. Has anyone on this thread ever just had a gut reaction? Just decided to take one action rather than another, and not really been able to explain why? It doesn't take magic, it doesn't take metaphysics. Maybe it's your subconscious putting together a thousand little clues and presenting you with an answer without bothing to explain to you the question. Maybe it's your soul's intuition of the spiritual aspect.

 

I always thought, from a literary viewpoint, that THAT was the point of this scene. Don't read the passage with an Elend mind, trying to pick it apart logically and find the gears turning behind the face of the clock. Read it with a Vin mind, and know that sometimes things just happen because they happen. Dismantling a clock won't find you the 'tick'.

That's a fair point, which is why most if us think that it was something she subconsciously noticed that caused her to make a snap judgement that she didn't even know the reasons for. But the fact remains that Brandon said she is too observant for her own good, so there must have been some thing for her to "observe".

In many ways, Darnam, I agree with you.  But the quote from BS in the OP suggests that she observed something that spooked her.  Whether or not she was concious of the observation is obviously open to discussion.  But, this thread is largely speculative in nature.  And, since Vin's story is closed, it is unlikely that we will ever know without additional info direct from brandon.

 

Edit:  The kolat, Windrunner, has struck again  .

Edited August 16, 2013 by Shardlet

Gut feelings don't come from nowhere.  They are still based on things we sense.  They are actually a very important survival mechanism, most of the time.

 

Our rationalizations and descriptions of them are often wrong, however.

 

Thus looking for a reason why Vin left is sensible.  It doesn't have to be a fully developed rational reason, it just has to be something that she sensed.  For instance, if she somehow sensed that Hoid was a planet-hopper, I doubt she would know what that meant.  It certainly isn't a logical reason not to talk to somebody.  Far from.  But it would make sense for Vin to respond that way, especially if she didn't know what it meant.

I'm a fan of the theory that she subconsciously detected with bronze the ripples in creation caused by lightweaving, personally.

 

This has all been said before (possibly in this very thread... I'm pretty tired, so I apologise, and kindly ignore this post) We know it's possible to sense Allomancy with Bronze, and theoretically possible to sense Feruchemy (Phantom GO! Use your "Word of Brandon" attack!). Further Seeking can sense the ripples created by the well of ascension, and given off by the Ruin and Preservation mist spirits. Seeking is clearly not just the ability to sense Allomancy, but the ability to sense the ripples in creation created by Allomancy and other manifestations of investiture like Feruchemy (and even Shards!). However, as Brandon said somewhere (Phantom, follow up with your "Timely Quote" attack!") learning to detect Feruchemy must be pretty difficult if the Inquisitors, with all their Seeking power, couldn't figure out the trick in 1000 years. So the theory goes that what Vin experiences here is a very subtle manifestation of Lightweaving's impact on the pattern through her Bronze sense. She can't explain it consciously because she's unaccustomed to these ripples, but she has observed... something and it gives her the vibe.

Here is your requested quote Kadrok:

 

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/1729-a-late-breaking-report/

 

Quote

We asked if it was possible to use bronze to Seek Feruchemy. He said it could be possible. If it were to happen, it was very hard, because the Inquisitors would desperately like to be able to find Feruchemists that way, and it was implied they had not discovered this power. So, it is a freaking hard technique to learn, if possible at all.

Upvote. Thankyou kindly, I knew it was somewhere... I guess I need to fix Phantom's pokeball

So I've another idea why Vin left that square where Hoid sat.

Shortly after her leaving that square she felt she was followed. Later, when the Elend's camp was attacked she hunted a "mistborn", too. She thinks that both times it had been the same person.

 

She'd gotten close enough to the figure that he was no longer shadowed in mist, and she could see that he was real and corporeal, not some phantom spirit. She was increasingly certain that this was the man she'd sensed watching her when she'd first come into Fadrex.

 

HoA Ch. 37

 

 

I'm fairly sure, she is right. And the Annotations give a hint, who had followed/distracted her.

 

 

Edit: added something to the spoiler-section.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Meg

As a far more mundane option, it's quite possible that Vin just noticed that Hoid looked unlike someone from Scadrial. If you take a look at the interlude with the 17th Sharders in TWOK, you can see that the worldhoppers are described as looking unlike people from Roshar.

 

There were three of them. Two were dark-skinned Makabaki, though they were the strangest Makabaki he’d ever seen. One was thick limbed where most of his kind were small and fine-boned, and he had a completely bald head. The other was taller, with short dark hair, lean muscles, and broad shoulders. In his head, Ishikk called them Grump and Blunt, on account of their personalities. The third man had light tan skin, like an Alethi. He didn’t seem quite right either, though. The eyes were the wrong shape, and his accent was certainly not Alethi.

...

The third man had light tan skin, like an Alethi. He didn’t seem quite right either, though. The eyes were the wrong shape, and his accent was certainly not Alethi.

 

While I'm sure Hoid is quite skilled at disguise, it's very possible that he just didn't look like someone from Scadrial (or his disguise was imperfect) or he didn't have the right accent. Syl had a similar reaction to Vin.

 

And with that, the storyteller turned and broke into a jog, heading off toward the warcamps. He didn’t move to go up into them, however. His shadowed figure turned to the south, as if he were intending to leave the camps. Where was he going? Kaladin looked down at the flute in his hand. It was heavier than he had expected. What kind of wood was it? He rubbed its smooth length, thinking. “I don’t like him,” Syl’s voice said suddenly, coming from behind. “He’s strange.”

 

He was whistling when Vin went to see him, and Vin may have picked up on the fact that he was ever so slightly different. Can you pick up someone's accent from their whistling? She's quite observant and was burning tin. Straff was capable of smelling poisons... could Vin hear an accent?

 

As for Hoid's Feruchemy, my initial suspicion was that he used the bead of lerasium (or part of it?) to grant himself it — but then how did he manage to get to the Well in the first place? From my understanding, he uses Feruchemy to "know where he has to be". And how would he have used Shadesmar without a magical system? I feel he did too much before Mistborn to not have had Feruchemy during that time, but I'd need a global timeline to know for sure. Perhaps Mistborn is just really early in the Cosmere timeline post-Shattering. Or perhaps Feruchemy is not Scadrial-specific? That seems... unlikely.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Moogle

Or perhaps Feruchemy is not Scadrial-specific? That seems... unlikely.

 

And this is the part where I refer you to one of Shardlet's theories I personally believe: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/3473-shardworld-dna-blueprint-based-on-yolen-dna/?hl=%2Byolen+%2Bblueprint

 

Basically the thread of it is that Hoid is from Yolen, and is of the human stock that existed before Adonalsium was shattered. Rather than being of just Ruin and Preservation (like the Scadrians), these humans are presumably of all the Shards (as their original whole). Thus, Hoid has potential access to all manifestations of investiture because he has the seeds of all of them within him, just as the Southern Scadrians have the seeds of all the metallic arts in them, even without ancestors who burned lerasium. I assume that Hoid has found a way to wake up his Feruchemical potential.

 

As I recall I speculate in that thread that it is possible Hoid's Feruchemy doesn't use metal as a focus, given the whole metal thing is presumably a result of the interplay between Ruin, Preservation and Scadrial. I now think that is unlikely given that preshattering systems are meant to be limited. I think it's more likely that Feruchemy came about on Scadrial and Hoid worked out how to awaken his potential in it while visiting Scadrial, back around the time the Worldbringers were a big deal (there are other theories that connect Hoid to the founding of the worldbringers, but I've rambled enough about this already).

 

Short answer: Hoid probably has Feruchemy because he both has the master sDNA of the humans (presumably) created by the unshattered Adonalsium, and has worked out how to draw Feruchemy out of that potential by examining the manifestation of Feruchemy on classical Scadrial.

Edited September 2, 2013 by Kadrok

I bet Hoid spooked Vin because, as a Sliver, Vin has some connection to the power of creation, and could thus sense something off about Hoid.

 

Note that others characters have noticed odd vibes from our favorite worldhopper as well. Vin is probably the only one paranoid enough to act on her instincts.

I bet Hoid spooked Vin because, as a Sliver, Vin has some connection to the power of creation, and could thus sense something off about Hoid.

 

Note that others characters have noticed odd vibes from our favorite worldhopper as well. Vin is probably the only one paranoid enough to act on her instincts.

What an intriguing notion! Upvote! Perhaps Vin intuitively detected the absence of Preservation and Ruin in Hoid, or more accurately the fullness of Preservation and Ruin as a whole with the other unbroken Shards.

I know I'm late to this party, but I got an idea of what might have spooked Vin. Maybe it's a bit of a stretch, but it does at least include the one bit of information we're given about the scene: Hoid is humming. Maybe Vin subconsciously picked that it was perfectly on-tune, which someone idly humming would generally not be, and it felt odd to her.

 

I think this theory is a little weak because surely musicians hum on key all the time. It's more likely that her brass was picking something up, but since it wasn't allomancy, she couldn't feel a pulse. I just can't think of any other reason for the humming being significant, and I can't imagine that the passage was intended to be completely without a clue to its meaning.

Yeah, a little late to the party. At this point, it might be better to start a new thread.

I was going to, but I've been on message boards where people act like the world is ending when you start a duplicate thread, no matter how long it's been since it's been posted in. I'm new around these parts and didn't want to accidentally offend the community.

DSC01,

 

I for one am grateful you resurrected this thread, just to see all the interesting theories.  As I was reading through it, I too came up with that same possibility (perfect pitch) as a possible reason she left.

It's possible, since Hoid had the Lerasium, that he burned it, became Mistborn with some unknown level of ability and was either able to Sooth or Riot some emotion  in Vin to make her avoid him.

I seem to remember a WoB on Hoid not using the Lerasium the way we would have thought.

I seem to remember a WoB on Hoid not using the Lerasium the way we would have thought.

This one indicates what you remember (though I'm not sure you meant this):

 

Q: Is Wit/Hoid an Allomancer?

A: He did steal a bead of Lerasium off of Scadrial. If he were to make use of that bead, certain powers would have been gained.

source