Rusito

Skybreakers vs Windrunners

11 posts in this topic

Hi all!

I've been trying to get more info about each order's "special talents"

for what I have read so far both seem similar in very aspects. Could you help me distinguish them? Is it all about the ideals and law commitment?

Thanks!

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Windrunners follow protection, while Skybreakers follow justice. Think of them like the deffence and prosecution in a court. Two sides of the same coin.

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13 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

Windrunners follow protection, while Skybreakers follow justice. Think of them like the deffence and prosecution in a court. Two sides of the same coin.

Thanks! And what about their "powers"? 
I see like Shallan can change her look and Lift can become "slippy"...besides the fact they can both fly and stuff...what are the main differences?

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They share the Gravitation surge but Skybreakers have Division as their 2nd surge while Windrunners have Adhesion. 

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12 minutes ago, Rusito said:

Thanks! And what about their "powers"? 
I see like Shallan can change her look and Lift can become "slippy"...besides the fact they can both fly and stuff...what are the main differences?

Here's a handy chart

heralds6b.png

 

And good definitions

https://coppermind.net/wiki/Surge

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I’ve been ninja’d multiple times, but I’ve spent a lot of time on this, so I’ll post it anyways. Here’s my perception of the ideological differences between Windrunners and Skybreakers.

At the beginning of their oaths, Windrunners are focused purely on protecting others. People’s well-being and safety are what matter above all else, even if they don’t deserve it in the Windrunner’s opinion. This is a huge difference between the Skybreakers and the Windrunners. Notice that the Windrunner’s don’t care about fairness, whether or not somebody deserves to be saved. Their ideology is that everyone is worth saving, including  their enemies. Reconciling this belief with the belief that some people need to be opposed and fought against is a core part of their journey. Another part of a Windrunners journey is learning how to let others fend for themselves and let go of some of the responsibility they feel for everyone.

The Skybreakers, meanwhile, focus on justice, which to them means punishing those who’ve done wrong in order to protect those who are innocent. Unlike the Windrunners, they don’t believe everyone deserves protection. There are those who do harm, and they must be stopped in order to protect those who are innocent. Skybreakers begin with the ideology that the law is to be upheld above all else. Much like Nale, novice Skybreakers generally follow the law because they don’t trust in their own ability to determine what is right and wrong, and how severely different crimes must be punished. So, they look towards an external code, or law. Much of their journey is centered around becoming confident in their own ability to discern right and wrong and mete out justice. The 5th ideal, after all, is “I am the law.”

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It's a little hard to assess the Skybreakers currently as they are largely serving under the direct intent of Nale, who has admitted he is at least partially insane (he no longer feels the compassion that he once did).  A lot of Nale's statements to Szeth seem quite contradictory.  The only really consistent one I could pick out was that the Skybreakers try to swear themselves to following an external code/truth as they believe their individual decision making is flawed.  This external truth (the 3rd oath) is usually to follow the law, but can also be to follow a specific person (some Skybreakers swore to follow Nale, Szeth swore to follow Dalinar).

I think the two orders are alike in that they both seem extremely idealistic and devoted to single-mindedly pursuing what they believe is morally right.  They differ in that the Skybreakers seem to focus more on an external definition of what is right, while the Windrunners need to adhere to what their conscience believes is right.

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I have to say, this is of course personal preference

Though the difference in battle strategy is windrunners are very much scouts (adhesion and gravitation) , while Skybreakers (having division as well as gravitation) 

Now comes to the oaths, we can all agree that the Skybreakers imitate nale, who is -or was- justice. The Skybreakers follow an external code, no matter how fundimentally flawed. The windrunners imitate jezrien himself, the king of heralds. How this works in differencr to the other orders, who follow their leaders personalities, the windrunners are not leaders or kings, but rather scouts as I mentioned earlier. The windrunners, follow their own code, what they think is right, which can also be flawed, as nale said himself that men are flawed. There may actually be some kind of moral clash between Kaladin and Szeth later on. 

Though I am a fan of the Skybreakers (hence the username) there isn't really a better option

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I think far too much attention is put on what the ancient Windrunners did in terms of their stereotypical profession as "scouts." 

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5 hours ago, ILuvHats said:

I’ve been ninja’d multiple times, but I’ve spent a lot of time on this, so I’ll post it anyways. Here’s my perception of the ideological differences between Windrunners and Skybreakers.

At the beginning of their oaths, Windrunners are focused purely on protecting others. People’s well-being and safety are what matter above all else, even if they don’t deserve it in the Windrunner’s opinion. This is a huge difference between the Skybreakers and the Windrunners. Notice that the Windrunner’s don’t care about fairness, whether or not somebody deserves to be saved. Their ideology is that everyone is worth saving, including  their enemies. Reconciling this belief with the belief that some people need to be opposed and fought against is a core part of their journey. Another part of a Windrunners journey is learning how to let others fend for themselves and let go of some of the responsibility they feel for everyone.

The Skybreakers, meanwhile, focus on justice, which to them means punishing those who’ve done wrong in order to protect those who are innocent. Unlike the Windrunners, they don’t believe everyone deserves protection. There are those who do harm, and they must be stopped in order to protect those who are innocent. Skybreakers begin with the ideology that the law is to be upheld above all else. Much like Nale, novice Skybreakers generally follow the law because they don’t trust in their own ability to determine what is right and wrong, and how severely different crimes must be punished. So, they look towards an external code, or law. Much of their journey is centered around becoming confident in their own ability to discern right and wrong and mete out justice. The 5th ideal, after all, is “I am the law.”

I really like your description of this, thanks for putting it together 

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27 minutes ago, Karger said:

I think far too much attention is put on what the ancient Windrunners did in terms of their stereotypical profession as "scouts." 

I agree entirely. Two things in particular that people don’t seem to keep track of.

1) They are the most numerous, and martial, Order (except for the Stonewards on the martial side, I think) and constitute a major part of the ‘Army’ of the Knights.

2) They would be leading armies of non-Knights, much like Kal does in Kholinar

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