2Shanez

Roshar itself is a fabrial

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Have this half-baked theory that Roshar itself, as in the whole planet, is a fabrial.

Urithiru seems to be one big ol' fabrial. So city sized fabrial's aren't out of the question. Several other cities are depicted to have similar odd strata, though of course no other giant gem cores mentioned.

What if Roshar's core is a humongous gem?

How this could be relevant or used is the question. Please prove my crazy theory wrong.

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I had a sort of similar thought a while back, but the main issue with that is the amount of Stormlight needed to power something that large, no matter the use.

It would be interesting if the fabrial was there to help with the Oathpact/trapping Odium thing or with putting Honor back together.

Or the most crazy thought: it's there to combine all the Shards together, which would mean due to the fact that there's not enough of them for each Shard, more multi-Shards are on their way.

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Remember that Roshar predates the Shattering, and was created by Adonalsium. So any motives for it being a giant fabrial (if that's even possible pre-Shattering) would have to predate the arrival of Honor, Cultivation, and Odium.

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7 minutes ago, RShara said:

Remember that Roshar predates the Shattering, and was created by Adonalsium. So any motives for it being a giant fabrial (if that's even possible pre-Shattering) would have to predate the arrival of Honor, Cultivation, and Odium.

Is it possible that Adonalsium saw that he/she/it was going to be shattered and created Roshar to help facilitate it's recreation?

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Anything is possible, but I don't believe so, myself.

As I've said in the past, I feel like reassembling Adonalsium would feel too cyclitic, and thus, too similar to Wheel of Time for Brandon (or editors) to want to touch with a ten foot pole.

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I've believed that Roshar has a gemheart core for a while. IDK how gravity would fit into it, though, plus as I found out the island-greatshells are the largest greatshells so if the planet had a gemheart it would be an anomalous non-living (or non-greatshelled) one.

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9 hours ago, 2Shanez said:

Have this half-baked theory What if Roshar's core is a humongous gem?

Ok I might be crazy, but I feel like there was a wob that confirmed this

Edit: Did some light wob hunting, and I think I'm just crazy

Edited by Gray to
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Hmm I forgot about gravity! 

Just more crazy positing here. So on Roshar there's a buttload of free investiture. The spren are proof of that, investiture gaining sentience. The stormfather being a major one. Not a stretch to reason that Roshar has a spren then. Could make quite a powerful fabrial maybe? 

A fabrial of the gods. 

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1 hour ago, 2Shanez said:

Hmm I forgot about gravity! 

Just more crazy positing here. So on Roshar there's a buttload of free investiture. The spren are proof of that, investiture gaining sentience. The stormfather being a major one. Not a stretch to reason that Roshar has a spren then. Could make quite a powerful fabrial maybe? 

A fabrial of the gods. 

Investiture is free if it comes from the Power of Creation through the initial Investment of a Shard. The Stormfather is the largest remaining Splinter of the Shard that was Honor, alongside all the contingent of sentient spren. Hence the Power of Creation that flows through them and hence over Roshar is indeed the body of Honor.

Given that, Investiture can only be granted to those that have the pieces of the their soul arranged correct, or to artificial construct that are arranged such that they can (temporarily) hold Stormlight and use it by the perfection of gems.

I've said in other threads that like Hemalurgy, the ability of Investiture on Roshar/generally to accept the design of fabrials is another of those "killer features" that have Cosmere wide significance. If an artificial construct can register for Investiture or at least catch it temporarily you've essentially got something as powerful as a computer chip for creating programmable magic!

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I don't know about Roshar, but I have had suspicions about Aimia, and something there binding Odium. 

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8 hours ago, Odium's_Shard said:

Investiture is free if it comes from the Power of Creation through the initial Investment of a Shard. The Stormfather is the largest remaining Splinter of the Shard that was Honor, alongside all the contingent of sentient spren. Hence the Power of Creation that flows through them and hence over Roshar is indeed the body of Honor.

Given that, Investiture can only be granted to those that have the pieces of the their soul arranged correct, or to artificial construct that are arranged such that they can (temporarily) hold Stormlight and use it by the perfection of gems.

I've said in other threads that like Hemalurgy, the ability of Investiture on Roshar/generally to accept the design of fabrials is another of those "killer features" that have Cosmere wide significance. If an artificial construct can register for Investiture or at least catch it temporarily you've essentially got something as powerful as a computer chip for creating programmable magic!

Wouldn't there have been some early version of the stormfather before any Shardic influence occurred on Roshar?

What you describe reminds me of those harmonium cubes on Scadrial, definitely seems possible!

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On 2/6/2019 at 2:03 PM, 2Shanez said:

Have this half-baked theory that Roshar itself, as in the whole planet, is a fabrial.

Urithiru seems to be one big ol' fabrial. So city sized fabrial's aren't out of the question. Several other cities are depicted to have similar odd strata, though of course no other giant gem cores mentioned.

What if Roshar's core is a humongous gem?

How this could be relevant or used is the question. Please prove my crazy theory wrong.

Is there any reason to believe that Roshar is a fabrial? It may be theoretically possible, but there doesn’t seem to be any real reason that points toward this. Not to mention the amount of Stormlight it would take to power that.

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All I have is that weird strata that keeps popping up all over and extrapolation.

If Uritheru can be a fabrial why not the whole planet? The planet itself must have a spren right?

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Random side note: 

17 hours ago, 2Shanez said:

Hmm I forgot about gravity! 

My friend looked over my shoulder and saw this sentence and was really confused. :D

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8 hours ago, 2Shanez said:

Wouldn't there have been some early version of the stormfather before any Shardic influence occurred on Roshar?

What you describe reminds me of those harmonium cubes on Scadrial, definitely seems possible!

If I recall correctly, the Stormfather did in fact predate Honor and Cultivation's arrival to Roshar. 

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19 hours ago, 2Shanez said:

Hmm I forgot about gravity! 

Well, first my thought was, "Wouldn't the gravitational pressure of the surrounding planetary mass* being pulled inward, crush the crystal? CAN a planet even temporarily form with a crystal core of the gemheart kind?" I also thought, "But Roshar's gravity is lower than Earth's," and, "Adonalsium directly created this planet," so who knows...

*Though, for all I know, if a planet had a very thin mantle and its interior was all one massive gem-like structure, the internal structural integrity of the gem might prevail against the mineral veneer...

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4 hours ago, IGetLIFTed said:

Not to mention the amount of Stormlight it would take to power that.

Could it be deactivate or out of power?

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2 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

If I recall correctly, the Stormfather did in fact predate Honor and Cultivation's arrival to Roshar. 

This is really interesting. Given that he can now engage in the Nahel bond, presumably he was transmogrified into an expression of a Splinter of Honor. But he does talk about his siblings and I've always been thinking "three, one for each Shard"... if they predate the Shards then is that even valid?

51 minutes ago, Atium said:

Could it be deactivate or out of power?

Or it could be that it was powered by a Connection to Honor and His Splintering has changed the kind of Connection that is required? Like a fabrial which has trapped no spren.

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I guess the biggest question is if this theory is true, then what would the fabrial do? I doubt it’s currently working, as I think people would have noticed a giant gemstone pillar sitting somewhere on Roshar. It would have to be hidden, and Stormlight wouldn’t be able to reach it easily, meaning that it couldn’t currently be powered up.

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1 hour ago, Odium's_Shard said:

This is really interesting. Given that he can now engage in the Nahel bond, presumably he was transmogrified into an expression of a Splinter of Honor. But he does talk about his siblings and I've always been thinking "three, one for each Shard"... if they predate the Shards then is that even valid?

2 hours ago, Atium said:

Yes, the Stormfather was merged with Tanavast's Cognitive Shadow. I don't think we know if the Nightwatcher was also there before H&C arrived, so there's no way to tell if she came from Cultivation or was just warped by the same.

1 hour ago, Odium's_Shard said:

Or it could be that it was powered by a Connection to Honor and His Splintering has changed the kind of Connection that is required? Like a fabrial which has trapped no spren.

I think if it were going to be anyone, Cultivation would power it, not so much Honor, because of how she and the Nightwatcher as described as somewhat melding with the earth and vines around her, and Cultivation is described as trailing into the planet (I think, I could be misremembering). 

15 minutes ago, IGetLIFTed said:

I guess the biggest question is if this theory is true, then what would the fabrial do? I doubt it’s currently working, as I think people would have noticed a giant gemstone pillar sitting somewhere on Roshar. It would have to be hidden, and Stormlight wouldn’t be able to reach it easily, meaning that it couldn’t currently be powered up.

It might help with the odd stuff on Roshar like the movement of the continent maintaining its fractal. It also could be a perfect gem, so it might still be going, depending on certain other circumstances.

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2 hours ago, Odium's_Shard said:

This is really interesting. Given that he can now engage in the Nahel bond, presumably he was transmogrified into an expression of a Splinter of Honor. But he does talk about his siblings and I've always been thinking "three, one for each Shard"... if they predate the Shards then is that even valid?

Or it could be that it was powered by a Connection to Honor and His Splintering has changed the kind of Connection that is required? Like a fabrial which has trapped no spren.

Prior to the arrival of the shards honor and cultivation the dawnsingers were a part of Rosharan ecology. They personified the storm into the stormfather who oversaw their changing forms. When honor and cultivation showed up, they co-opted the native investiture. That changed the stormfather over time. Then when the humans came and they came to personify the stormfather in a different way, he began to change more. 

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10 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

When honor and cultivation showed up, they co-opted the native investiture. That changed the stormfather over time.

The question is, was the Stormfather always made from mostly Honor's Investiture, or did Honor steal it from someone else?  

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I think Roshar already functions in some capacity as a fabrial because Honor and Cultivation are invested there.  You don't need a massive amount of stormlight to power it, because the shards themselves have permeated the landscape and fuel whatever function the fabrial would be performing.

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There have been some theories that the strata mentioned in several different cities is due to either the method used to create them, or they're related to The Sibling, who could be the spren of the Earth(aka Roshar). Thus the great spren would be stone, life, and storms, which basically defines Roshar. 

I doubt the planet itself could be a fabrial. This far all fabrials have a gem core, and usually metal to connect things, with the exception of the tower which is connected by gems. I have wondered if maybe the dawncities are connected by massive underground lines of gem or other material, although I still think that unlikely. 

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On 2/7/2019 at 10:17 PM, Invocation said:

It might help with the odd stuff on Roshar like the movement of the continent maintaining its fractal. It also could be a perfect gem, so it might still be going, depending on certain other circumstances.

Perfect gems can hold Stormlight forever, but they still lose it if the Stormlight is going into something. A perfect gem could power Roshar for a little bit, but it would still run out very soon, if it’s not recharged by Stormlight.

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