RShara

Official Hemalurgy Chart!!!!!

41 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Someone on Reddit who lives near Brandon posted a pic! https://reddit.com/r/Cosmere/comments/acocyt/oooooh_hemalurgy_chart/

konbnwgqvh821.jpg

 

Looks like the alloys are a lot more versatile than the elements, and holy crap the Spiritual and Temporal metals!!!!!!

 

Edit: By stealing all abilities, does that mean lerasium can steal and hold all abilities at once in a single spike?!??!?!?!?!??!?!

Edited by RShara
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So, just going through some thoughts.

There of 47 total bindpoints that can be used for an Inquisitor. 11 are physical. 12 are mental. 12 are temporal. 12 are spiritual. 

The only physical bindpoints within the limbs are in the upper thighs. Similarly, a majority of the non-physical bindpoints are in the limbs, with the exception being four in the chest.

You need 32 spikes to make a fullborn: 8 physical, 8 mental, 8 spiritual, 8 temporal. This leaves room for 15 more spikes. Assuming one of them has to be blank to be the lynchpin, that's still an additional 14. Of those remaining, 2 can be physical, and 4 spiritual, mental, and temporal.

Those are my initial observations.

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Wow. There's a lot more going on in here than I expected we'd get at this time. Some thoughts:

  1. What timeframe is this chart from, in-universe? Since it specifically concerns creating Inquisitors (see the linchpin spike comment), that leads me to believe it's a Final Empire document, one that was actually used to create Inquisitors. Which has some interesting ramifications, with regards to the knowledge of metals like cadmium and lerasium. This information must have been from TLR, gained through his Ascension, which is why it was so comprehensive.
  2. I wish I had a better eye for color. Based on the thigh spikes (which aren't any of the four colors next to the quadrant labels), each spike is actually colored according to the specific metal it is. So even though the specific spike placements aren't written down, we'll be able to figure out a large part of it, if someone can appropriately dissect the colors. The Feruchemical and Allomantic tables have colors to use as a go-by.
  3. No Hemalurgic symbols. I was expecting a third set of symbols.
  4. The linchpin is not explained. It's just there on the chart; but how does it work? Is it a Physical Allomancy (like A.Pewter) that has an added benefit based on its placement? Does it perform a different function entirely, and it doesn't actually steal anything from anyone?
  5. Atium needs to be refined. Why? This is a big shot-in-the-arm to an old theory around the internet that had pretty much puttered out, that said atium as they knew and obtained it was actually already an alloy. It acted like a Temporal metal because it was actually a Temporal alloy of a god metal; that was just how the Pits produced it. Refining would be required to remove the "impurity" of the alloyed metal, giving you a "purified atium" (patium? p-atium? atium prime? atrium?) that could be used as a Hemalurgic wildcard. This would also have implications on the last Wax and Wayne title - the Lost Metal being this purified atium.
  6. Lerasium's function in Hemalurgy, I'm not sure if it's a confirmation or a refutation of some of my ideas. I thought that all god metals could act like atium, stealing any ability. And technically, lerasium does function like that. But by stealing all, it makes me wonder if the pattern can be extended. Specifically to trellium, which I currently believe is Autonomy's god metal. I was thinking it could steal anything, with the added effects of hiding from Shards that we saw in SoS. But lerasium is sufficiently different from atium (with regards to Hemalurgic usage) that I'm a little less confident in that idea.
  7. There is an interesting distinction made on the chart between powers (atium, aliuminum, and eight of the base metals that steal Feruchemy and Allomancy), Investiture (nicrosil), and abilities (lerasium). My gut instinct is that that "powers" is the most limited, and that the other two are each expansions of the concept. Investiture extends beyond Allomancy and Feruchemy - that's how you'd steal Sand Mastery or Surgebinding or other off-world Investiture. And that "abilities" extend to strength, senses, Identity, and the other attributes that can be stolen by Hemalurgy.

So, yeah. Lots of fun stuff. Can't wait for the poster.

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Posted (edited)

This photo has been commandeered by the Dark Alley. Thank you for your contribution and good day.

(But seriously this is great. I'm gonna buy one.)

Edited by Dr. Dapper
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Just picked up my copy at the BYU store, and wow, it's beautiful! Not just this chart, but all the artwork inside... wow! :wub:

 

Now I have the whole trilogy, and Elantris!  Looking forward to Warbreaker, which will hopefully come out this year.

IMG_20190104_1832355.jpg

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Soooo when it says "Lerasium steals all abilities" does that mean that if I spiked a mistborn with a lerasium spike it would take all their abilities in one go? Meaning you could make someone a mistborn with a single spike? 

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6 minutes ago, Steel Inquisitive said:

Soooo when it says "Lerasium steals all abilities" does that mean that if I spiked a mistborn with a lerasium spike it would take all their abilities in one go? Meaning you could make someone a mistborn with a single spike? 

Didn't we have a WOB from a while back to the effect that yes, you could do exactly that, but it would be incredibly wasteful as, with a smaller amount of lerasium than it would take to make a spike you could already make someone a Mistborn?

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7 minutes ago, Steel Inquisitive said:

Soooo when it says "Lerasium steals all abilities" does that mean that if I spiked a mistborn with a lerasium spike it would take all their abilities in one go? Meaning you could make someone a mistborn with a single spike? 

Well, you could make someone a mistborn without the spike :P

I find it more interesting you could make someone a full feruchemist.

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I picked mistborn because..... It was the first thing that jumped into my head..... but anyways you could use it to steal a feruchemist's powers then? 

Or better yet.... spike Hoid and get all his accumulated powers, hmmmmm.......

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Posted (edited)

2 minutes ago, Steel Inquisitive said:

Or better yet.... spike Hoid and get all his accumulated powers, hmmmmm.......

Holy crap, that's a scary thought!  With the WOB we just got about how Hoid wants to avoid Nightblood because he believes/worries that it's one of the few things that could actually kill him, it makes me wonder if he's aware of this power...

Edited by Mason Wheeler
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O

12 hours ago, Pagerunner said:

Wow. There's a lot more going on in here than I expected we'd get at this time. Some thoughts:

  1. What timeframe is this chart from, in-universe? Since it specifically concerns creating Inquisitors (see the linchpin spike comment), that leads me to believe it's a Final Empire document, one that was actually used to create Inquisitors. Which has some interesting ramifications, with regards to the knowledge of metals like cadmium and lerasium. This information must have been from TLR, gained through his Ascension, which is why it was so comprehensive.
  2. I wish I had a better eye for color. Based on the thigh spikes (which aren't any of the four colors next to the quadrant labels), each spike is actually colored according to the specific metal it is. So even though the specific spike placements aren't written down, we'll be able to figure out a large part of it, if someone can appropriately dissect the colors. The Feruchemical and Allomantic tables have colors to use as a go-by.
  3. No Hemalurgic symbols. I was expecting a third set of symbols.
  4. The linchpin is not explained. It's just there on the chart; but how does it work? Is it a Physical Allomancy (like A.Pewter) that has an added benefit based on its placement? Does it perform a different function entirely, and it doesn't actually steal anything from anyone?
  5. Atium needs to be refined. Why? This is a big shot-in-the-arm to an old theory around the internet that had pretty much puttered out, that said atium as they knew and obtained it was actually already an alloy. It acted like a Temporal metal because it was actually a Temporal alloy of a god metal; that was just how the Pits produced it. Refining would be required to remove the "impurity" of the alloyed metal, giving you a "purified atium" (patium? p-atium? atium prime? atrium?) that could be used as a Hemalurgic wildcard. This would also have implications on the last Wax and Wayne title - the Lost Metal being this purified atium.
  6. Lerasium's function in Hemalurgy, I'm not sure if it's a confirmation or a refutation of some of my ideas. I thought that all god metals could act like atium, stealing any ability. And technically, lerasium does function like that. But by stealing all, it makes me wonder if the pattern can be extended. Specifically to trellium, which I currently believe is Autonomy's god metal. I was thinking it could steal anything, with the added effects of hiding from Shards that we saw in SoS. But lerasium is sufficiently different from atium (with regards to Hemalurgic usage) that I'm a little less confident in that idea.
  7. There is an interesting distinction made on the chart between powers (atium, aliuminum, and eight of the base metals that steal Feruchemy and Allomancy), Investiture (nicrosil), and abilities (lerasium). My gut instinct is that that "powers" is the most limited, and that the other two are each expansions of the concept. Investiture extends beyond Allomancy and Feruchemy - that's how you'd steal Sand Mastery or Surgebinding or other off-world Investiture. And that "abilities" extend to strength, senses, Identity, and the other attributes that can be stolen by Hemalurgy.

So, yeah. Lots of fun stuff. Can't wait for the poster.

Peter kind of sort of answered 1 in the reddit post 

Quote

It is an in-world chart according to the knowledge of some people at a certain stage in the history of Roshar.

 

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You can steal destiny ? What does that even mean ? Hemalurgy is rad

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What does that even mean, and more to the point, how did anyone manage to discover that in the first place?!?

(Also, this power is less awesome than it sounds, because what if you manage to steal the destiny of someone who had a really bad destiny?) :P

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2 hours ago, goody153 said:

You can steal destiny ? What does that even mean ? Hemalurgy is rad

I think it might be Fortune?

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5 hours ago, Kalinovsky said:

I think it might be Fortune?

I think it's that whoever made the chart (Spook I think) didn't know about Fortune, and it's very hard to prove that you've stolen someone else's luck/destiny/future.

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If you had enough Lerasium to make a spike, you have enough to make yourself a mistborn and a spike.  So, pop a Lerasium pill, and spike your fellow Ferruchemist.  Then grab your friendly neighborhood Soulcaster and do the same to him. And your Elantrian second cousin's roommate.  The only problem is finding enough Lerasium.

Can a Soulcaster make God metals?  

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11 minutes ago, Tglassy said:

If you had enough Lerasium to make a spike, you have enough to make yourself a mistborn and a spike.  So, pop a Lerasium pill, and spike your fellow Ferruchemist.  Then grab your friendly neighborhood Soulcaster and do the same to him. And your Elantrian second cousin's roommate.  The only problem is finding enough Lerasium.

Can a Soulcaster make God metals?  

A soulcaster cannot make god metals. It would take more investiture that the caster can possibly hold.

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10 minutes ago, Tglassy said:

Can a Soulcaster make God metals?

Quote

Phantine

Could you soulcast atium from god-metal into god-wood?

Brandon Sanderson

Soulcasting atium would take a heap-ton of Investiture. You'd need a huge source to power that. 

source
Quote

ninch

Could a person Soulcast more atium and lerasium if they had a bead?

Brandon Sanderson

No. Investiture messes things like that up.

source

You could take a godmetal and make it something else with enough power(but that's a lot of power needed), but you can't really make more.

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On 1/4/2019 at 9:03 PM, Steel Inquisitive said:

Soooo when it says "Lerasium steals all abilities" does that mean that if I spiked a mistborn with a lerasium spike it would take all their abilities in one go? Meaning you could make someone a mistborn with a single spike?

Being that hemalurgy is Ruin's power, why is lerasium more powerful than atium?

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That has always bothered me a little bit..... Allomancy is Preservation's magic system and yet atium is the most powerful metal for allomancy. Now Lerasium seems to be the most powerful metal for Hemalurgy. 

Well.... I  guess it works. Atium (ruin's metal) makes you good at killing things with allomancy. Lerasium (preservation's metal) makes you good at preserving powers with hemalurgy. (no power lost.)

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I think abilities refers to things like mental fortitude, physical strength or perhaps even cooking, because we already have Nicrosil, which steals investiture and Atium, which steals any power. So having Lerasium steal literally everything makes no sense.

What I propose is that Nicrosil steals Investiture (= Magic), Lerasium steals abilities (certain skills, bodily features like strength or mental fortitude) and Atium can steal all powers (= all magics + all abilities (given that physical strength and so on could also be considered a power, in the case of strength quite literally)).

7 hours ago, Steel Inquisitive said:

That has always bothered me a little bit..... Allomancy is Preservation's magic system and yet atium is the most powerful metal for allomancy. Now Lerasium seems to be the most powerful metal for Hemalurgy. 

I disagree with this quite strongly. Yes Atium turns you into a ridiculous killing machine, but Lerasium gives you 16 differnt powers +X. And Atium is only powerfull combined with other powers, when fighting someone with other powers. We see this when Yomen fights against Vin (?). Lerasium and Atium are the strongest metals in there respective magic systems.

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For the abilities, powers, Investiture topic, I think in the chart ‘powers’ refer to any Allomancy or Feruchemy. And, as said previously, Investiture is just magic in general. So, for example, if you wanted to steal Elantrian-status you could with a Nicrosil spike.

So, with Atium (refined). I think when it says it can steal any power, that means that it can steal any metallic art. But that means it can’t steal any Investiture like we thought. That’s Nicrosil, which is (scarily) way way less rare than Atium.

And then there’s abilities, which I agree is things like senses, strength, identity. I think spiking someone with Lerasium would effectively be a ‘soul transplant’, putting everything, including the esscence of the person into the body.

As we know, if you have a power and spike yourself with the same power, it just enhances it, not overrides it. So by adding this other soul, you’d effectively have two people share one body.

What I think this means is: Lerasium allows you to transplant everything about a person, their soul, into something else. And this makes so much sense. Lerasium is Preservation’s God Metal, and using this soul transplant allows you to preserve yourself, putting your consciousness in a spike and switching bodies. This could have some ‘Altered Carbon’ type effects.

But, I think that while you can transfer everything about a person in a new body, you can’t transfer their powers or Investiture, which require other spikes.

And since Lerasium is essentially grafting your soul onto someone else’s, including experiences, connections, it makes sense your physical body would change to match your previous one, since all the Spiritual DNA is transferred.

Or, if it’s shared between two people, maybe the body goes half way and finds a mix of both people.

I think we’ve figured out the secret behind the Sovereign’s scars, and I think the eye- spike is Lerasium.

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56 minutes ago, I think I am here. said:

I think we’ve figured out the secret behind the Sovereign’s scars, and I think the eye- spike is Lerasium.

Afraid not:

Spoiler

Questioner

So I just finished Secret History about an hour ago.

Brandon Sanderson

Okay.

Questioner

And I just have a simple yes or no question? Is Kelsier's spike made of lerasium?

Brandon Sanderson

No... Good question.

source

 

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A couple of thoughts from me, including a couple of new things people haven't really talked about, but that seem interesting to me:

  • Duralumin: This steals Connection and Identity. While probably not as useful as feruchemical duralumin and aluminum, this still seems like a metal that has a lot of possibilities,.
  • Aluminum: Removes all powers. My take on this is that this works by first killing someone with this spike, and any person you stick it in afterwards will lose all their powers. The other possibility is that you don't have to charge it, and that sticking an aluminum spike in someone is enough to remove all their powers, without having to kill them. This could have some interesting consequences for dealing with criminal magic users, where you remove their abilities to use magic if they break the law (assuming this is permanent of course, though this could still create easy inhibitor bracelets otherwise).
  • Nicrosil: Something I haven't heard people talk about is whether this refers to kinetic or innate investure. It seems most people are (logically) assuming innate investure, since it's a spiritual property from someone you can steal. Still, it might be nice to get some kind of clarification on this.
  • Chromium: Might steal destiny. I agree with the others that this probably refers to Fortune, but it does have some interesting implications on the nature of Fortune. The standard way it seems to be interpreted is that it works as in manipulating luck, manipulating chances. This however (together with being grouped among the spiritual metals in feruchemy), indicates that it is an actual property related to the Spiritual realm. Taking into account Odium's conversation with king Taravangian, where he was surprised the Diagram was writing without future sight or access to Fortune, I think that this indicates that Fortune is a property of the Spiritual realm, possibly involving something of a sixth/innate unconscious sense of the future, or Connection, but (since time doesn't exist in the spritual realm) to future events/people/places instead of past ones.
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