Infusing Syl

[blad3mast3r]

So, if shallan can infuse pattern, can kaladin infuse syl?

 

we have seen her make people trip. could she do more with stormlight?

 

what if you infuse a spren in blade form? does it get better/extra properties?

 

discuss.

[Moogle]

I think it's less that Shallan can infuse Pattern, and more than Pattern is Shallan in some Spiritual sense, since they're bonded, and Shallan can put illusions on herself. So... probably yes, Kaladin could infuse Syl with Stormlight, but I'm not sure what it would do. Maybe sticking a Full Lashing on her would let her trip people in hilarious fashion. But then he wouldn't have his Shardblade...

 

I'm not sure if you could do anything to a Blade. Objects with lots of Investiture in them (like Nightblood/Shardblades/Shardplate) are resistant to magic in general. Maybe you can do special things to your own spren, though? I'd like see a Basic Lashing'd spinning Syl-saw cut through an entire army of monsters. (Actually, thinking on this, it reminds me of the Wheel of Time.)

Edited May 8, 2014 by Moogle

[blad3mast3r]

"ten people, with shardblades alight.." is a death rattle. 

 

Although maybe it's just a herald thing.

[Swimmingly]

Hmmm.... The thing is, Pattern seems to act as a focus for the illusions; it's a passive effect and he can't control it. I'm trying to think of a good use for Syl as an infusion focus, and I can't. My imagination may be limited, though!

[blad3mast3r]

syl has tripped people.

[Arondell]

Perhaps Kaladin could place a reverse lashing on her.  She could fly around in ways to pull incoming projectiles off course.

[Moogle]

Perhaps Kaladin could place a reverse lashing on her.  She could fly around in ways to pull incoming projectiles off course.

 

Very good idea here. Reverse Lashings require the Surgebinder's constant touch, and take very little Stormlight, so this seems like an ideal use for Syl. I've always thought trying to draw projectiles to something nearby that you were touching was silly...

Edited May 8, 2014 by Moogle

[Swimmingly]

Keep it going long enough, and Syl would get a Katamari ball of spent ammunition around her

[Left]

It's just like a lurcher, except it doesn't have to be focused on your center, so I think that's a definite advantage. Can he infuse her so that she has enough power to do full strength lashings? because that would open up all manner of crazy things.

[NeutroniumAlchemist]

The Question is: can Kaladin break his oath/kill Syl,then have Vasher Awaken her into an evil-killing-spen? 

or would that just be a lifeless spren? 

[Arondell]

I was wondering if the Adhesion surge is still officially associated with Atmospheric Pressure.  If it still is then one somewhat nasty trick would be to get Syl to fly around sucking air away from an opponents lungs.  I'll admit I'm still not entirely sure how the Atmospheric Pressure surge is supposed to work so I don't really know if that kind of trick would be possible.  Isn't the adhesion part based on creating a vacuum?

 

Edit : It is a rather nasty tactic.  I can't really see Syl using it as a matter of course kind of thing.

Edited May 9, 2014 by Arondell

[PorridgeBrick]

I was wondering if the Adhesion surge is still officially associated with Atmospheric Pressure.  If it still is then one somewhat nasty trick would be to get Syl to fly around sucking air away from an opponents lungs.  I'll admit I'm still not entirely sure how the Atmospheric Pressure surge is supposed to work so I don't really know if that kind of trick would be possible.  Isn't the adhesion part based on creating a vacuum?

 

Edit : It is a rather nasty tactic.  I can't really see Syl using it as a matter of course kind of thing.

As far as I know, it is.

[Pathfinder]

syl has tripped people.

Yep, I am currently rereading WoKs, and as Kaladin realizes his stickable powers, he also realizes that's how Syl trips and pranks people. Its what cinches in his head that she is not a WINDspren, and she admits she is something else. So that could possibly allow Kal to affect foes gravitation at range instead of like Szeth who has to always touch, or "spray"

 

"You're not a windspren, are you?" She hesitated, then shook her head. "No" "What are you, then?" "I don't know. I bind things." Bind things. When she played pranks, she made items stick together. Shoes stuck to the ground and made men trip. people reached for their jackets hanging on hooks and couldn't pull them free."

Edited May 9, 2014 by P4thf1nd3r

[Seloun]

I'm not sure Pattern being the focus for an illusion is really the big thing here (for example, Shallan 'throws' an image of Kaladin near him without needing to use Pattern); she really does infuse Pattern in the sense that she divides her Stormlight and puts some into Pattern:

 

 

“Here,” Shallan said, pressing her hand down on him, muffling his words to an annoyed buzzing . It was an odd sensation, as if she’d trapped an angry cremling under the bedsheets. She pushed some Stormlight into him. When she lifted her hand, he was trailing wisps of it, like steam off a hotplate fabrial.

 

Essentially Pattern works like a Stormlight reservoir. The big deal here seems to be less that Pattern is attached to the illusion, but that Pattern can _power_ the illusion without drawing Shallan's Stormlight.

 

Pattern's capability of holding Stormlight is also described as being inferior to Shallan's. This does not seem like a throwaway line considering that this distinction is also one of the big difference between an Honorblade and the Nahel bond:

 

 

Well, it was the best they could do for the moment. Shallan took a deep breath and pulled on her hat, breathing out a second image, one that covered her over and transformed her into Veil. The one on Pattern would remain so long as he had Stormlight. That Stormlight drained from him a lot faster than it did from Shallan, though. She didn’t know why.

 

It's almost like spren are half of the stormlight affinity while Surgebinding is the other half (making Nahel bond wielders more efficient than Honorblade wielders or spren) - or being human is half and being spren is the other half.

 

Potential applications of this might be to 'hide' Stormlight or just have an extra buffer of Stormlight that doesn't require gemstones. She can likely maintain lashings much like how Pattern can maintain illusions. We don't have any direct evidence that the spren can Surgebind (while Syl does bind things as a trick, it's implied in TWoK that this is also a common windspren trait, and there's no indication that Syl is actually spending Stormlight for her tricks in the same way Surgebinding works) but she could likely at least e.g. keep Kaladin's personal lashings if he runs out of Stormlight at an inopportune time.

 

This function may also be somehow related to what happens when Kaladin falls into the chasm (though WoB doesn't really seem to go in this direction).

[SmurfAquamarineBodies]

@ Seloun: "but she could likely at least e.g keep kaladin's personal lashings if he runs out of Stormlight at am inopportune time.

This would be a huge advantage. Because if they didn't need to worry about managing the personal Lashings and could just fight, they would be more effective fighters.

[Kasimir]

Moogle, on 09 May 2014 - 06:38 AM, said:

I'm not sure if you could do anything to a Blade. Objects with lots of Investiture in them (like Nightblood/Shardblades/Shardplate) are resistant to magic in general. Maybe you can do special things to your own spren, though? I'd like see a Basic Lashing'd spinning Syl-saw cut through an entire army of monsters. (Actually, thinking on this, it reminds me of the Wheel of Time.)

See, this is something I've been wondering about for a while because I get that it's hard to do things to objects with lots of Investiture, but I'm wondering if that happens to your own sprenblade since you're bonded to your spren. I don't know if that might change how things work.

Off-hand, that might let him do his arrow trick again. Syl can turn into a shield and if she could maintain the Lashing, like Seloun suggested, then Kaladin doesn't have to worry about the arrows--at least until he makes it through the intervening distance and needs a blade again.

[Aleksiel]

This thread got me thinking if Jasnah soulcasted those thugs from afar in WoK by infusing Ivory. Seems like a neat explanation.

[Seloun]

This thread got me thinking if Jasnah soulcasted those thugs from afar in WoK by infusing Ivory. Seems like a neat explanation.

 

It's a neat theory, and I re-read the passage looking for any shadow weirdness (I didn't notice any). The main problem with the explanation is that she soulcasts two targets at the same time, who are on opposite sides of her; this leads me to think it's not really a matter of using her spren for that function. Shallan also describes bolts of stormlight that streak from Jasnah to the targets, which presumably wouldn't have been necessary if Ivory was the delivery mechanis,.

[Aleksiel]

It's a neat theory, and I re-read the passage looking for any shadow weirdness (I didn't notice any). The main problem with the explanation is that she soulcasts two targets at the same time, who are on opposite sides of her; this leads me to think it's not really a matter of using her spren for that function. Shallan also describes bolts of stormlight that streak from Jasnah to the targets, which presumably wouldn't have been necessary if Ivory was the delivery mechanis,.

 

I thought about it as well. Ivory seems to be able to teleport himself around, so if he can do it fast enough, it might seem like two things happening at once to outsiders perspective. Another possibility is Jasnah infusing Ivory and another spren/something else.

 

Shallan's rescue at the beginning of WoR by the santhid seemed to me like she somehow unconsciously communicated with him and Lift certainly felt what that larkin in Nale's hands felt. I speculate this as foreshadowing that Radiants had more than their surges and human squires.

 

Jasnah seems quite ahead of both Shallan and Lift with her six years of experience and Elsecallers were said to be the true masters of Shadesmar. Thus I speculate she either used Ivory and something yet unknown or Ivory who teleported fast enough to make it seem like two things. Or some spren might be able to be at two places at once, so it was Ivory again.