Why does Adolin go to meet Eshonai?

[Seloun]

This is more for a meta-narrative question than a strictly literal one; obviously the narrative itself offers a reason for Dalinar not to go meet Eshonai (security, et. all).

 

However, this seems like a peculiar excuse. Dalinar goes out on the the plateaus without much concern in every other situation; now, those situations do involve having an army with him, but it's not like you can hide an army on the Plains; there's no cover for anything. The situation seems rather contrived. Dalinar has to communicate using a spanreed, so it's not strictly Dalinar's words or Eshonai's words that are being interrupted; it's just Dalinar never meets Eshonai. Eshonai also implies that she's met Dalinar before (though this might have been a reference to the feast, and it's also implied Eshonai might have been part of the first contact group).

 

It's worth noting that only Adolin (of the main protagonists) meets Eshonai during the final battle of WoR, as well (in particular Dalinar does not see her).

 

So, from a meta-narrative perspective, what could be being hidden by Dalinar not meeting with Eshonai? Of course, he dueled her during TWoK and didn't recognize anything special (though he was pretty dazed at the time).

 

One possibility is that it's not Dalinar, but Kaladin that's being 'hidden' (Kaladin explicitly stays behind to protect Dalinar). I'm not sure how valid this is, because it seems like Kaladin could have been left behind even if Dalinar went onto the plateaus (covered by Skar or Moash and team). Shen/Rlain is part of Adolin's bodyguard team (specifically noted) but it's unclear that that has any bearing here.

 

I'm not completely convinced that there is something hidden here, but when I read the scene it felt very peculiar; re-reading it still seems contrived why Dalinar can't go meet with Eshonai. Something related to his gift/curse from the Nightwatcher? It seems quite possible that Dalinar visited the Nightwatcher shortly after first contact with the Parshendi, as he has an interesting hesitation when he talks to Kaladin about why he wasn't around for the Roshone affair:

 

 

“I suppose I owe you this,” Dalinar said. “But it is not to be spread around. Roshone was a petty man who gained Elhokar’s ear. Elhokar was crown prince then, commanded to rule over Kholinar and watch the kingdom while his father organized our first camps here in the Shattered Plains. I was . . . away at the time.

 

“Anyway, do not blame Elhokar. He was taking the advice of someone he trusted. Roshone, however, sought his own interests instead of those of the Throne . He owned several silversmith shops . . . well , the details are not important. Suffice it to say that Roshone led the prince to make some errors. I cleared it up when I returned.”

[Bramble Thorn]

From a Meta perspective, the point was to keep Eshonai the hell away from Sylphrena. Because honorspren at least have some Hate-O-Vision powers going on. Re the scene just before Szeth showed up in the palace to kill Dalinar.

 

Eshonai by this point has GLOWING RED EYES and LIGHTNING ARCING FROM HER ARMS. This would likely mean SOMETHING about Eshonai would spark Syl memory. What might change the plan to go into the Shattered Plains, or reveal herself to Dalinar early. 

[Seerow]

One of the first things Eshonai asks is if Dalinar remembers her. I'm guessing if Dalinar actually saw her face to face it would spark a memory, likely something that would help solve the mystery of Gavilar's death. Since that's destined to hang over our heads for at least another book or two (I'm guessing two books, until Eshonai gets her viewpoint book), Dalinar couldn't be allowed to meet her.

[Aleksiel]

I suppose Dalinar first met Eshonai on the expedition they met the Parshendi. After all, in Eshonai's PoV she said she led that same expedition. She was interested in the maps they had and somewhere in WoK was stated the Parshendi first asked Alethi about their maps.

[Observer]

Dalinar goes to the battles on the plains, but only rarely, and always at the back as a tactician. This would be face-to-face parley with a Shardbearer, and also possibly Szeth on the way as well for all they know. Not sure about you, but with what they know of the Parshendi's messed up ways, it doesn't seem implausible for them to just Shardblade Dalinar and run. Even if they gave him Plate and Blade there, it's still an enemy Shardbearer with an unknown number of soldiers, motivation, and again, possibly an invincible assassin. It's not a foolproof plan, hence leaving Kaladin back with him in a more defensible position, but I can see why they don't want to risk their leader out there in the unknown.

 

EDIT: And yes, I'm pretty sure Syl would have noticed something very very wrong with Eshonai if they'd met, and I think Eshonai might have been able to see Syl as well. From a Doylist perspective, something I'd rather avoid, it seems like it would have tipped them off that something was wrong. Again though, I can see why they wouldn't want to risk their most valuable on something like this.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Observer

[Numb]

If Syl had seen Eshonai I assume that she would have convinced Kaladin to show Dalinar what he could do which would have lead to a completely different book.

[name_here]

There's a difference between going onto the plains and deliberately walking into what is quite possibly a trap set for Dalinar specifically. I'm not sure if any of the characters would have noticed anything; she kept her visor down and acted quite differently from prior occasions.

[Aoibheann]

Is it possible Dalinar (as a potential/budding Bondsmith) would have seen the bond she's made with the Unmade?

 

Could Bondsmiths have power over such bonds? 

[Argent]

Bondsmiths, in all likelihood, have some power of spren bonds - Words of Radiance suggests that it was the Bondsmiths who turned the Voidbringers into parshmen, so they must've done something to separate listeners from voidspren. Let's not refer to the Unmade so confidently, we don't know if Eshonai has an actual bond with (one of) them, because we don't know much about them. 

[Moogle]

Words of Radiance suggests that it was the Bondsmiths who turned the Voidbringers into parshmen

 

I believe you're stretching things entirely too far here. Assuming the section you're referring to is this:

 

So Melishi retired to his tent, and resolved to destroy the Voidbringers upon the next day, but that night did present a different stratagem, related to the unique abilities of the Bondsmiths; and being hurried, he could make no specific account of his process; it was related to the very nature of the Heralds and their divine duties, an attribute the Bondsmiths alone could address. —From Words of Radiance, chapter 30, page 18

 

The most natural reading suggests that Melishi was leader of an army that was preparing to fight a group of Voidbringers the next day through an attack. Bondsmiths apparently get a special gift for tactics (like Dalinar has), so it seems more natural that his alternate stratagem could have involved trapping them in a canyon, or distracting them and leading them away from a city, or something along those lines.

 

To suggest that this epigraph means that one Bondsmith was responsible for enslaving the entirety of the listeners (turning them from fearsome Voidbringer forms to slaveform) goes way too far in my opinion. It's a neat enough theory, but with very little to back it up. If he was responsible for the enslavement of the parshmen, then this conflicts with the huge gap in history with no one remembering that they enslaved the Voidbringers. And if he did have this power to bind them to no-form instead of destroying them, then an explanation is required as to why Desolations are not a cakewalk to survive.

[Argent]

Well, somebody had to strip them of their bond - the Last Legion was the only group that voluntarily adopted dullform to escape their gods' influence. I don't see who else could've done it.

[Confused]

Moogle, there generally were only three Bondsmiths at a time. It is unlikely they led the fighting armies; that would have been the Windrunners, with their leadership attribute. Bondsmiths might have set strategy, but tactics would have been the province of the ones actually fighting.

 

I agree with Argent. His is the more natural reading. Because Melishi didn't explain his process, that process was probably lost - which is why subsequent Desolations (assuming Melishi did not act during the last one) were not a "cakewalk." The fact that his process "was related to the very nature of the Heralds and their divine duties, an attribute the Bondsmiths alone could address," also suggests that Melishi found a way to strip the Parshendi of their voidspren bonds.

[Lightflame]

I agree with the OP that there's a specific reason Brandon has for keeping Dalinar and Eshonai away from each other. Why? Well, other than this, there was the scene in The Way of Kings where Dalinar fought Eshonai, but when her faceplate came off, Dalinar was too far away to see what she looked like.

 

Having two scenes written specifically so that Dalinar doesn't see Eshonai sets up a pattern, and patterns mean something.

[Moogle]

Moogle, there generally were only three Bondsmiths at a time. It is unlikely they led the fighting armies; that would have been the Windrunners, with their leadership attribute. Bondsmiths might have set strategy, but tactics would have been the province of the ones actually fighting.

 

Do you anticipate Dalinar not directing armies anymore? He's a Bondsmith, and he's definitely going to keep doing that. He's very good with strategy, much like Kaladin is good with fighting and Shallan is good at drawing. I see a pattern here, and I think that the Bondsmith's grasp of tactics was their Order's passive ability (or one of them, I should say). Not having them lead armies (even if there were only three), or at least have them dictate strategy to the leaders of armies (like Dalinar talking to Aladar), would be a huge waste.

 

 

The fact that his process "was related to the very nature of the Heralds and their divine duties, an attribute the Bondsmiths alone could address," also suggests that Melishi found a way to strip the Parshendi of their voidspren bonds.

 

You've lost me with this leap. Because his sudden insight was "related to the very nature of the Heralds and their divine duties", you'd say this suggests he stripped the listeners of their spren? Why would he do that and not kill the parshmen?

 

It seems to me that this passage suggests that the Radiants and their unique attributes were related to the nature of the Heralds. So:

• Kaladin gets Protecting (good at fighting) and Leading (he's charismatic) because those were Jezrien's things.
• Shallan gets Creative (good at art) and Honest (good at telling 'true lies' and inspiring people) because those were Shallash's things.
• Dalinar gets Pious (visions) and Guiding (good at strategy) because those were Ishar's things.

I believe this is the true meaning of how his process was "related to the very nature of the Heralds and their divine duties". Bondsmiths were the only order that could address Ishar's duties, being Pious/Guiding.

 

I feel the Bondsmith-made-parshmen theory has merit, but I believe it's on the unlikely side and that people are really convinced by scant evidence.

 

Well, somebody had to strip them of their bond - the Last Legion was the only group that voluntarily adopted dullform to escape their gods' influence. I don't see who else could've done it.

 

How about Odium? The Last Legion didn't sacrifice all their forms, they just took on the really crappy ones. Odium, though, could force a complete severing of bonds with voidspren because the Desolation ended (and the Oathpact required him to). The listeners then await the next Desolation, and Odium sets up things so they'll bond again... and only with his spren. We never see a parshman change on their own, and we know Odium is forcing them to change, so I think there's something fishy going on. This is just a speculative train of thought, though. I don't know who forced the listeners into slave form, but I don't think it was a Bondsmith.

[Confused]

I see Dalinar DIRECTING armies - as you suggest - planning strategy, not tactics (which is the implementation of strategy). I do not necessarily see him on the field of battle. He will behave much like he did in the climactic battle on the plateaus. He remained in the command area for the most part, committing his armies and reinforcements to their desired positions. Adolin, for example, exercised tactical judgment when he chose to break through an old structure and attack the Parshendi from the rear. Melishi, in developing a plan, was also setting strategy.

 

We're probably only talking semantics here, though. I think we'd agree that Melishi created a plan for dealing with the Voidbringers which he didn't record. But the Divine Attribute of "Guiding" to me sounds more spiritual in nature, like a clergyman guiding his flock. Guiding is not dictating. Guiding, joined with pious, reflects a spiritual orientation.

 

But only Bondsmiths could bond. (Is bonding spiritual or cognitive or both or neither? Has Brandon said? Seems like it would be important to know and would affect an analysis of this point)

 

The final, and maybe most telling point, is that there's no evidence that Parshmen existed before the Last Desolation. Jasnah in WoK suggests they didn't and were enslaved but not killed as a result of the human victory. That's why the admittedly speculative conclusion that Melishi "voided" the voidspren bonds (sorry) makes sense.

[BrindIf]

Is there a topic with a discussion on the Parshmen/Parshendi?

It seems to me that the Parshmen are different from the Parshendi dull-form. They are more "duller" in a way. When Parshendi meet with Galivar, they would ask "where are their song?" or something like that.

 

It's like... I don't know. It's like if in the process to transform Voidbringers in Parshmen (Jasnah's theory), whoever did it got more than the Voidspren out of them, or broke something (the ability to bound? but that doesn't make sense, as the Everstorm is supposed to be able to transform them again).

[RShara]

Eshonai says that the parshmen have no spren, so my interpretation is that's why they're open to the voidspren--without a spren of their own, any type can bond with them and change them.  Rlain is safe from being turned because he has his ?workform/nimbleform/warriorform? spren.

[Numb]

The problem with that is Eshonai tried to stop the process mid way and the council of 5 even mentions if there is an issue than Eshonai can stop it but she was overpowered by the spren. Maybe she just realized too late and you can stop it.

[PorridgeBrick]

The problem with that is Eshonai tried to stop the process mid way and the council of 5 even mentions if there is an issue than Eshonai can stop it but she was overpowered by the spren. Maybe she just realized too late and you can stop it.

But that was specifically after she'd decided to bond the voidspren. That may not occur if you refuse from the beginning. And if not, then just staying inside might work, since Parshendi do have to go into the storm to bond. Edited March 29, 2014 by PorridgeBrick