Trell is Trell?

[Silva]

Since I’m terrible with forums, forgive me if there’s already something on this.

My Trell Suspicions 

(I’ve also only read Sanderson’s Mistborn world books)

So when I was rereading era 1, I was trying to look at all the religions Sazed mentions to see if Trell was there. (Note: Trell as in the guy Miles Hundredlives believes in)

Yes, Sazed does mention him. It’s a religion that worships the stars and night.

Could it be that Trell is real? He’s written in a lot in era 2.

More than any other religion Sazed preached.....

[Kidpen]

Trell is also a character in White Sand iirc. This has been talked about some, but good job spotting it! I'll leave telling more about it to other people more experienced.

[goody153]

Popular theory is that trell is Autonomy which i also subscribe too

[Calderis]

Without having read any other Cosmere works, all that can really be said is that Trell is another shard that has come to Scadrial, hijacked an old school religion (if you look at the things that Miles says, they don't align with the things that Sazed said about treligism) and that's really all we know so far. 

Edited July 3, 2018 by Calderis

[The Harlem Worldhoppers]

22 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Without having read any other Cosmere works, all that can really be said is that Trell is another shard that has come to Scadrial, hijacked an old school religion (if you look at the things that Miles says, they don't align with the things that Sazed said about treligism) and that's really all we know so far. 

And if you have read other cosmere works:

Spoiler

It can be deduced following a process of elimination (see footnote) from this WoB that 'Trell' is in fact Autonomy

Chaos

I'm sorry Brandon, you might RAFO me.

*written* For the metal in Bleeder, is it from a Shard we know?

Brandon Sanderson

Oh no… You drove all this way, that's what makes me. Eric comes and he's like--

Chaos

You RAFO'd me at Words of Radiance--

Brandon Sanderson

I know.

Chaos

--I asked you a question that was too much.

Brandon Sanderson

…you push, yeah… There you are you got your answer. You got me.

*writes* Yes.

Footnote: at that time we knew 9 Shards: Devotion, Dominion, Preservation, Ruin, Odium, Honor, Cultivation, Endowment and Autonomy
source

 

 

[Scion of the Mists]

9 hours ago, The Harlem Worldhoppers said:

Spoiler

It can be deduced following a process of elimination (see footnote) from this WoB that 'Trell' is in fact Autonomy

 

How, exactly, do you get that conclusion from that WOB? 

(For the record, I agree, but I don't see how this WOB proves it)

[The Harlem Worldhoppers]

3 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

How, exactly, do you get that conclusion from that WOB? 

(For the record, I agree, but I don't see how this WOB proves it)

Brandon confirms that Trellium is from a shard that we know and the nine shards that were known at the time (this is in the WoB footnote) were as follows;

• Devotion
• Dominion
• Preservation
• Ruin
• Honor
• Cultivation
• Odium
• Endowment
• Autononomy

Devotion, Dominion and Honor are all splintered. Endowment believes strongly in non-interference and attacking Scadrial would be against her intent. Cultivation is in the Roshar system and attacking Scadrial would be against her intent. Preservation and Ruin have become Harmony so that's not an option for obvious reasons. That leaves only Odium and Autonomy. Odium is scared of Harmony according to Brandon so a head on confrontation just 15 years after the events in the first half of Stormlight Archive seems a little bit far fetched. I doubt Odium escapes the Roshar system while splintering Cultivation in the first five books of Stomlight which leaves Autonomy as the only remaining option.

[+hwiles]

Just to play devil's advocate, have we proven that bleeders spike wasnt of Harmony or maybe the pile of Ruin Investiture that Harmony didn't pick up during his ascension? (Recall, we don't know for sure what happened to Ruin's atium Investiture; it got burned and released, it didn't resolidify as atium, and Sazed couldn't have sucked it in during his ascension. Maybe he picked it up later or maybe it became a splinter or got sucked up by Kelsier or someone else).

[Wandering Investor]

@hwiles Harmony confirmed he does not know the origin of the metal. Harmony was able to retrieve all of Ruin's power, and does not have any splinters.

Spoiler

Blightsong (paraphrased)

Does Harmony have any Splinters?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Do you mean like in his fingers? *Brandon has a coy smile. Questioner looks at him like "you know what I mean you fool". Brandon laughs.* No, he does not have Splinters right now. Good question.

source

There's also another WoB that states he is having to balance out his extra Ruin, but I can't find it at the moment.

So the spike definitely came from another Shard, the only options being Autonomy and Odium, and if you notice Paalm is constantly talking about freeing people from god's control, aka giving them autonomy. 

White Sand Spoiler

Spoiler

The world White Sand takes place on is tidally locked, so one side is always facing the sun, and the other the stars. This is similar to parts of the original Trelagism. 

Additionally, a man named Trell was met by the main character. He seemed like a small character, but it shows a possible relationship between Autonomy's world and what's going on on Scadrial in Brandon's mind. 

 

[Scion of the Mists]

1 hour ago, The Harlem Worldhoppers said:

Devotion, Dominion and Honor are all splintered. Endowment believes strongly in non-interference and attacking Scadrial would be against her intent. Cultivation is in the Roshar system and attacking Scadrial would be against her intent. Preservation and Ruin have become Harmony so that's not an option for obvious reasons. That leaves only Odium and Autonomy. Odium is scared of Harmony according to Brandon so a head on confrontation just 15 years after the events in the first half of Stormlight Archive seems a little bit far fetched. I doubt Odium escapes the Roshar system while splintering Cultivation in the first five books of Stomlight which leaves Autonomy as the only remaining option.

I fully agree that it's most likely Autonomy - it's just that with Brandon, you never know.  

I would put Odium as the most likely non-Autonomy candidate (Brandon has said that Odium presents a real threat to Harmony and that he would be able to make a Metallic Arts-viable godmetal).  

I also disagree that interfering with Scadrial is against Cultivation's intent.  

[Wandering Investor]

I agree that interfering with Scadrial would not be against Cultivation's Intent, but I think she is still not an option, she's tangled up on Roshar and doesn't have any known reason to move against Harmony.

[The Harlem Worldhoppers]

29 minutes ago, Scion of the Mists said:

I fully agree that it's most likely Autonomy - it's just that with Brandon, you never know.  

I would put Odium as the most likely non-Autonomy candidate (Brandon has said that Odium presents a real threat to Harmony and that he would be able to make a Metallic Arts-viable godmetal).  

I also disagree that interfering with Scadrial is against Cultivation's intent.  

Yeah that's my bad about Cultivation's intent. She might feel that Scadrians are incapable of true growth when Harmony gives everything to them on a platter so she might be opposed to the idea of Harmony. There's also the WoB that her Intent is complementary to Ruin...

11 minutes ago, Wandering Investor said:

I agree that interfering with Scadrial would not be against Cultivation's Intent, but I think she is still not an option, she's tangled up on Roshar and doesn't have any known reason to move against Harmony.

She is definitely tangled up in Roshar and is Invested there in more than one sense. Considering 'Trell' is attacking Scadrial 15 years after the events in Stormlight 5 (also roughly at the start of Stormlight 6) there isn't a realistic future where Cultivation completely abandons Roshar and decides to make Scadrial her new dominion.

In a parallel Cosmere where Cultivation is not on Roshar she would actually be a strong candidate for Trell.

[Wandering Investor]

40 minutes ago, The Harlem Worldhoppers said:

In a parallel Cosmere where Cultivation is not on Roshar she would actually be a strong candidate for Trell.

Why for? She seemed content to ignore everyone else and run off with Honor.

[The Harlem Worldhoppers]

20 minutes ago, Wandering Investor said:

Why for? She seemed content to ignore everyone else and run off with Honor.

Why would Cultivation not join Honor on Roshar? Well we know that Honor and Cultivation were romantically involved so maybe Tanavast and Cultivation's vessel were also romantically involved. If this were the case then there could be a theoretical parallel universe where someone other than Tanavast ascended to become Honor causing Cultivation to roam around solo for a while instead of settling down with Honor. 

Then, if Cultivation were to come across Harmony in these circumstances she might be inclined to intervene due to her intent as she is all about growth and change and the paradise Harmony created inhibits this process of growth and change. You even see this when Harmony rants at Wax telling him he made things too easy for humanity and that they should have invented radios by now.

[Darth Woodrack]

What if the original god that all the shards came from wasn't the original god. It could be that the original god was killed by another group of fifteen that contained the original high god and trell and then the original high god killed fourteen of the other gods and trell hid in the stars. That could explain tell evil enemy in the trellism religion. Then the evil gods was killed and trell was happy with them so he didn't attack them. Then when Sazed became harmony he no longer cared enough not to not attack so in is brief three hundred years he started attacking and then the whole Trell thing started.

[Wandering Investor]

31 minutes ago, The Harlem Worldhoppers said:

Then, if Cultivation were to come across Harmony in these circumstances she might be inclined to intervene due to her intent as she is all about growth and change and the paradise Harmony created inhibits this process of growth and change. You even see this when Harmony rants at Wax telling him he made things too easy for humanity and that they should have invented radios by now.

I can see the conflict of interest, although I don't think it would warrant an attack by Cultivation. The original agreement was to split up the shards, and if they were bound to interfere with one another by Intent, they'd probably have come together long ago. Harmony might not be cultivating them to their max potential, but he does allow some growth, so he's not commpletely at odds with her, unlike Preservation and Ruin, where every action was the opposite of what the other wanted.

9 minutes ago, DarthWoodrack said:

What if the original god that all the shards came from wasn't the original god. It could be that the original god was killed by another group of fifteen that contained the original high god and trell and then the original high god killed fourteen of the other gods and trell hid in the stars. That could explain tell evil enemy in the trellism religion. Then the evil gods was killed and trell was happy with them so he didn't attack them. Then when Sazed became harmony he no longer cared enough not to not attack so in is brief three hundred years he started attacking and then the whole Trell thing started.

 

Brandon confirmed another Shard is at work here, and one that we have seen before. So other mystery anti-Adon entities are a no go.

[Weltall]

41 minutes ago, DarthWoodrack said:

What if the original god that all the shards came from wasn't the original god. It could be that the original god was killed by another group of fifteen that contained the original high god and trell and then the original high god killed fourteen of the other gods and trell hid in the stars. That could explain tell evil enemy in the trellism religion. Then the evil gods was killed and trell was happy with them so he didn't attack them.

While Brandon has not explicitly ruled out the idea of an 'Anti-Adonalsium' he has made it very clear that he did not intend to suggest one existed when he mentioned that there was a force opposing Adonalsium and that we're getting too hung up on the idea. And we know that all Investiture in the Cosmere comes from Adonalsium. Brandon has left open the question of whether there is something beyond Adonalsium (ie the idea that the God Beyond symbolizes) but that this is also something he does not intend to answer (along with what the Beyond is, ie whether the Cosmere has an afterlife and what form it takes) and instead leave that up to individual readers to decide for themselves. Ergo, it cannot by definition ever be a major plot point because that would require Brandon to give a definitive answer to something he's stated he doesn't plan on answering.

Oh, and here's another supporting WoB that a Shard is definitely at work on Scadrial. You may interpret Brandon and Ben's mirth however you like.

Quote

Questioner

Has Wax seen the influence of a Shard other than Preservation, Ruin, Harmony--

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

--i.e., like Autonomy?

Brandon Sanderson

He has seen the influence of another Shard.

Questioner

Might that Shard be Autonomy?

Brandon Sanderson

It might!

Ben McSweeney

*giggles*

source

 

[Darth Woodrack]

9 hours ago, Wandering Investor said:

Brandon confirmed another Shard is at work here, and one that we have seen before. So other mystery anti-Adon entities are a no go.

What I was suggesting technically is a shard, it just isn't a shard from the original god. It just seems like something that Brandon Sanderson would do.

[Calderis]

3 minutes ago, DarthWoodrack said:

What I was suggesting technically is a shard, it just isn't a shard from the original god. It just seems like something that Brandon Sanderson would do.

Keywords are it's a Shard we knew of at the time, which limits it to shards of Adonalsium. 

[JDwag]

What if trell is a split personality of sazed his ruin self and that's why sazed doesn't know because his own mind is blocking him from knowing

Side note what if the hero of ages was set up by adonalsium and sazed is ment to be the hero of the full cosmere

 

Edited August 14, 2019 by JDwag

[RShara]

13 minutes ago, JDwag said:

What if trell is a split personality of sazed his ruin self and that's why sazed doesn't know because his own mind is blocking him from knowing

Side note what if the hero of ages was set up by adonalsium and sazed is ment to be the hero of the full cosmere

 

FYI, this post is a year old. In general, it's a better idea to create a new topic rather than "necro" an old one, unless there's significant new information to be added.

[Nightwaker.exe]

So, uh.... you know how the era two books are later in the cosmere than anything else? 

And after the stormlight archive? Well here's my theory:

(I don't know how to hide text but there are spoilers, so I wrote the spoilers in white. drag over it to see it.)

I don't know, but Odiom was trapped on roshar and has corrupted other parts of that magic system, including the splinters. SO, I deduce that Odium somehow made it to Scadral and created his own Kandra, and STUFF, but that scares me a lot. WHAT HAPPENED TO DALINAR?

[Karger]

1 minute ago, Nightwaker.exe said:

So, uh.... you know how the era two books are later in the cosmere than anything else? 

6th of the Dusk is much later.

 

1 minute ago, Nightwaker.exe said:

(I don't know how to hide text but there are spoilers, so I wrote the spoilers in white. drag over it to see it.)

There is an eye that you click to make a spoiler hider.  It is on the top bar with the color change you just used.

SA spoiler

Spoiler

I don't know, but Odiom was trapped on roshar and has corrupted other parts of that magic system, including the splinters. SO, I deduce that Odium somehow made it to Scadral and created his own Kandra, and STUFF, but that scares me a lot. WHAT HAPPENED TO DALINAR?

That is possible but we know that.

SA spoiler

Spoiler

Hoid and Harmoney are in communication about Odium so Harmony's that is because I do not know comment does not make sense in that light.

 

[Nightwaker.exe]

1 minute ago, Karger said:

6th of the Dusk is much later.

 

There is an eye that you click to make a spoiler hider.  It is on the top bar with the color change you just used.

SA spoiler

  Hide contents

I don't know, but Odiom was trapped on roshar and has corrupted other parts of that magic system, including the splinters. SO, I deduce that Odium somehow made it to Scadral and created his own Kandra, and STUFF, but that scares me a lot. WHAT HAPPENED TO DALINAR?

That is possible but we know that.

SA spoiler

  Hide contents

Hoid and Harmoney are in communication about Odium so Harmony's that is because I do not know comment does not make sense in that light.

 

Found the spoiler tab, thanks. And I am aware of Sixth of the dusk, I know it a lot later, but the fellow I was chatting with has only read Mistborn. Anyways, thanks for that. When do we see hoid and Harmony communicate?

[Karger]

1 minute ago, Nightwaker.exe said:

Found the spoiler tab, thanks. And I am aware of Sixth of the dusk, I know it a lot later, but the fellow I was chatting with has only read Mistborn. Anyways, thanks for that. When do we see hoid and Harmony communicate?

One of the letters in SA.

Edited August 15, 2019 by Karger