Love Triangle Parallel

[rererak]

I know there's a Shallan's Relationship thread, but that is largely opinion and I wanted to talk a little more about the parallel specificly in the books and get if anyone else wanted to expand on the idea or not. (And this topic is one of my major obsessions, but I'm a sucker for romance especially when i didn't expect to find one in this series)

 

The first thing to point out is there is obviously two love triangles. One is already settled. That is between Navani, Gavilar, and Dalinar. Despite being dead, I think Gavilar one this. He didn't get Navani's heart, but he did get her hand in marriage and then had two children who may or may not have been worth it. (I kid, I love you Jasnah). After his death and when Dalinar starts acting with honor instead of with the Thrill, then Navani is able to step up and seduce him. But there is no doubt she went towards Gavilar first.

 

The second is, you guessed it, Shallan, Adolin, and Kaladin who parallel Navani, Gavilar, and Dalinar respectively. Nothing is necessarily settled here, but Shallan is presently pushing towards Adolin.

 

Now, I'm going to be biased for a second and say I hope Shallan doesn't need the death of Adolin to finally go to Kaladin. There, I said it, Shallan should be with Kaladin.

 

Okay, here is where they parallel. First, each character: Shallan and Navani are both scholars and have a habit of forgoing protocol, like when Navani rushes ahead of her servants at Sadeas' camp near the end of book one, or when Shallan leaves behind the palanquin on the plateaus because it was too slow. Kaladin and Dalinar are both strongly soldiers, and Dalinar has also mentioned he sees a lot of himself in Kaladin. They're both intense (which is a huge point I'll come back to in a moment) and they make a lot of wrong choices to finally get to the right one (trusting Sadeas or the side carry for example). They also don't ignore those around them and have a habit of trusting people until they're betrayed. Both are very likely to hide their feelings in deference to their brother/friend who is showing interest in the female of the triangle. Annnd the similarities goes on. Which is good because I have no real comparison between Adolin and Gavilar, a battle scene and a conversation are hardly enough background on a character to make any real details out.

 

The similarities in relationships: I mentioned in another post that Navani went to Gavilar because she thought he was the "safer" choice. This doesn't mean established money and position (although that could be a comparison between Adolin and Gavilar) because neither Shallan nor Navani seem concerned about that. At least, not immediately. Shallan is still concerned about her family's financial state, but I imagine that has fallen back in her mind as far as it can when it comes to courting Adolin. No, the reason Gavilar, and consequently Adolin, are the "safer" choice is they are more binding to their emotions. They express them, obviously (see: brawl fight in duel), but they tend not to act out in aggression like Dalinar (who nearly killed his brother) or Kaladin (who shows open hostility to most lighteyes). So with Adolin and Gavilar, the girls know they will not hurt them. Heck, Adolin goes about making a promise to protect Shallan. This works in tangent with the fact that the alternative choice is known to be "too intense" by both girls ("I chose him because you frightened me. That intensity of yours...it scared your brother too, you know"~ Navani, Way of Kings, Chapter 28) ("But Kaladin's intensity, that frightened her. He seemed like a man who constantly had his teeth clenched, a man who couldn't let himself--or anyone else--just sit down and take a nice rest"~ Shallan, Words of Radiance, Chapter 70). So the girls tell themselves they're fine with their choice, but keep secretly glancing back at the real one they like.

 

So I imagine a huge connection is going through them and I wholeheartedly believe that one of three things will happen: One, Shallan will choose Adolin despite liking Kaladin until Adolin is killed for one reason or another. Two, Shallan will be stronger than Navani and pick Kaladin in the first place. Three, Shallan will pick Adolin and Kaladin will be left with no one but a pretty honorspren (not bad, but I like Shallan and Kaladin better). I'm rooting for two, because I like Adolin despite myself.

[Rybal]

I've mentioned the parallel over on the Tor thread (and probably here, too).

 

I disagree, though, and think that Shallan will not end up with Kaladin. I think that Kaladin will see how beneficial the two of them are for each other and stay out of the way. If Adolin screws things up, then maybe, but I think this one can work for him.

 

I certainly agree with the comparisons of Kaladin and Dalinar. I think those have become even more emphasized as WoR went on.

 

One of the biggest issues that I see with Kaladin and Shallan, though, is that I think that he still has a LOOOOOOONG way to go before being able to be in a relationship with a lighteyes. He still has a deep seated mistrust and prejudice towards lighteyes in general. He even has his difficulties trusting Dalinar, despite his own desire to do so. He's improved, but he's nowhere near ready yet. It would take until the second set at least for it to be believable, and that would make them considerably older.

 

Additionally, there's the issue of their spren. Do you REALLY think that Kaladin would end up in a relationship with someone bonded to a spren that Syl wouldn't approve of? Honorspren and Cryptics really don't get along. Even if he could get over his prejudice towards lighteyes (which is reasonably legitimate, as far as prejudice goes), Syl would have to be involved in the process.

[Velnica]

One of the biggest issues that I see with Kaladin and Shallan, though, is that I think that he still has a LOOOOOOONG way to go before being able to be in a relationship with a lighteyes. He still has a deep seated mistrust and prejudice towards lighteyes in general. He even has his difficulties trusting Dalinar, despite his own desire to do so. He's improved, but he's nowhere near ready yet. It would take until the second set at least for it to be believable, and that would make them considerably older.

 

That would put them almost smack-bang in the Navani/Dalinar comparison too. Navani was frightened of him, and she dared not approach Dalinar pretty much until the point where she was sure he'd changed.

 

Also people do love Navani/Dalinar, why is a very slow burning Shalladin suddenly not a good relationship to come true as well?

[Seloun]

One of the biggest issues that I see with Kaladin and Shallan, though, is that I think that he still has a LOOOOOOONG way to go before being able to be in a relationship with a lighteyes. He still has a deep seated mistrust and prejudice towards lighteyes in general. He even has his difficulties trusting Dalinar, despite his own desire to do so. He's improved, but he's nowhere near ready yet. It would take until the second set at least for it to be believable, and that would make them considerably older.

 

Additionally, there's the issue of their spren. Do you REALLY think that Kaladin would end up in a relationship with someone bonded to a spren that Syl wouldn't approve of? Honorspren and Cryptics really don't get along. Even if he could get over his prejudice towards lighteyes (which is reasonably legitimate, as far as prejudice goes), Syl would have to be involved in the process.

 

Not really sure why you think the Shallan being lighteyes will pose a particular problem; it certainly doesn't pose a problem in the latter parts of WoR. We know for certain that Kaladin is attracted to Shallan since it's directly referenced in the book:

 

 

She looked gorgeous. Kaladin was willing to admit it, if only to himself. Brilliant red hair, ready smile. She said something clever; Kaladin could almost hear the words. He waited, hoping that she’d look toward him, meet his eyes across the short distance.

 

She didn’t. She rode on, and Kaladin felt like an utter fool. A part of him wanted to hate Adolin for holding her attention, but he found that he couldn’t. The truth was, he liked Adolin. And those two were good for one another. They fit.

 

Perhaps Kaladin could hate that.

 

And of course:

 

 

It was the single most beautiful thing he’d seen in his entire life.

 

and the rest of the chasm scene. It's not really debatable that Kaladin (as of end of WoR) has an attraction to Shallan.

 

As for the lighteyes issue, his character arc through WoR is recognizing that judging lighteyes simply based on them being lighteyes is no better than lighteyes who judge darkeyes by the same condition. Is it completely gone? No. Is it still his obsession? No. Remember that coming out as a Radiant is symbolic of getting over his obsession about lighteyes taking everything important to him. Most likely Kaladin's next big issue will be dealing with other darkeyed individuals who have similar stereotypes as a lighteyes.

 

 

Regarding the original topic, the parallel certainly exists but the players are pretty different. I also don't really know what purpose the parallel really serves from a narrative standpoint (I don't find the Dalinar/Navani relationship to be a particularly integral theme so far, frankly, though I'm biased since I dislike Navani). Kaladin isn't really second banana to Adolin (arguably quite the reverse at this point, part of Angstolin to come). Given the latest WoB I would expect that Adolin/Shallan will mostly fade on its own in book three, with Kaladin/Shallan primarily being challenged by the (almost too obvious) roadblocks conveniently left in place during WoR (Helaran, spren conflict, Gaz, Laral/Tarah).

[Mr Horrible]

One of the biggest issues that I see with Kaladin and Shallan, though, is that I think that he still has a LOOOOOOONG way to go before being able to be in a relationship with a lighteyes. He still has a deep seated mistrust and prejudice towards lighteyes in general. He even has his difficulties trusting Dalinar, despite his own desire to do so. He's improved, but he's nowhere near ready yet. It would take until the second set at least for it to be believable, and that would make them considerably older.

 

I think you really need to reread the chasm scene then, a lot of those issues are dealt with in respect to Shallan and by the end they simply don't come up (in fact Kaladin's negative emotions when he sees Shallan after that are generally because of her being in a relationship with Adolin). I mean we have him comparing Shallan to most of the members of his family and even Tien favourably, there's no way the Kaladin from the first half of the book would have done that.

 

I'd also point out that in regards to Dalinar Syl shows Kaladin's real feelings; despite momentary quarrels he always thinks Dalinar is honorable, Finally Kaladin also forged bonds with Adolin and Renarin this book, both of whom have light eyes.

 

I agree that these issues aren't over, however his prejudice is certainly much diminished and doesn't seem to colour his personal relationships now. You have to remember that it's pretty clear that light vs dark eyes is pretty crem dung and Alethi society as a whole is wrong on this issue. I think if Kaladin goes to Kholinar in the next book we'll see how his views have changed; he'll be pissed that a poor leader has power simply through having light eyes.

[Elena]

I was going to post this in the Shallan thread; but fits better in here (reply to the OP's post there)

Dalinar was passionate and intense, as is Kaladin, and even Dalinar compares himself to Kaladin. The same may not be said of Adolin and Gavilar or Navani and Shallan....

Shallan is nowhere close to her full potential so we cant know how similar to Navani she'll become, but Adolin *is* compared pretty often to Gavilar in WoK, albeit inderectly, pretty much every time that Dalinar thinks something among the lines of 'I know how Renarin must feel since I too was the younger brother of a charismatic leader. This happens at least twixe, I think, with Dalinar eventually adding that is good that Renarin isnt as jealous of his brother as he himself was.

[Mr Horrible]

I was going to post this in the Shallan thread; but fits better in here (reply to the OP's post there)

Shallan is nowhere close to her full potential so we cant know how similar to Navani she'll become, but Adolin *is* compared pretty often to Gavilar in WoK, albeit inderectly, pretty much every time that Dalinar thinks something among the lines of 'I know how Renarin must feel since I too was the younger brother of a charismatic leader. This happens at least twixe, I think, with Dalinar eventually adding that is good that Renarin isnt as jealous of his brother as he himself was.

 

Honestly the thing that struck me regarding Dalinar thinking about his sons is that he repeatedly thinks that Adolin is like him, but pure and didn't make the mistakes he made as Blackthorn. This is in pretty direct contrast with Adolin's murder of Sadeas at the end of the book and I don't think Brandon will let that pass even if Adolin's actions might be welcomed by the Dustbringers(?).

Edited March 21, 2014 by Mr Horrible

[Elena]

Mah, I don't quite see most posters' problem with Sadeas' s death. Sure, it'll mess with Adolin's mind and most people will assume the Kholins did it, but he got away with it and was IMO the morally, if not ethically,right thing to do. Laws in the kingdom are basically a joke, so I'm not even going there - but still, I dont think it's a huge deal.

[Mr Horrible]

You might not, however I'm reasonably sure Dalinar would think it was a huge deal, from what we've seen he tends to line up with Kaladin's morals quite a bit.

 

So I don't think Dalinar would go around saying Adolin didn't make the mistakes he did in his past if he found out about the murder.

[Elena]

I'm talking about the posters reaction, not Dalinar's - even though, you know, I actually don't know.

Pretty much everyone in-universe agreed that Sadwas had to go, and I imagine Dalinar being a the same time kind of disappointed and still somewhat relieved that Sadeas is finally out of the game - and maybe even ashamed of it. He'd be sad that Adolin had to take on such as a burden more than angry IMO - he's an honorable guy, but still the product of a bloodthirsty society, and old habits (and mindsets) die hard even for Radiants.

[Roarsach]

This is from a recent Q&A

Q: I really hope you're not going to do a love triangle between Kaladin, Adolin, and Shallan."

A: Brandon's response (which he worded quite carefully) was, "I'm not a fan of the traditional love triangle. However, I am fond of conflict in relationships." And he left it at that xD

i have a feeling that shallan will end up with non of them

Edited March 21, 2014 by Roarsach

[Cheeky-eyes]

I hope Shallan and Kaladin don't end up together since she and Adolin were working out so well and love triangles as a plot line are way too overdone, which Brandon seems to agree with. And even though I don't want to I have to admit the hints that Kaladin likes (or at  the very least is starting to) Shallan are pretty strong. And there were also hints that she reciprocates. That there will be conflict surrounding these three in the next book is pretty heavily implied.

 

Adolin might be really shaken by what he did to Sadeas, justified or not. That might put too much of a strain on his relationships as different people will react to it in different ways. Though if he deals with it internally that might be too much for his relationship with Shallan (and maybe his Father too on that note).

[Rybal]

I know that Kaladin has a certain level of attraction towards Shallan. However, there is a big difference between being attracted to someone and being able to have a relationship with them. He still has his underlying prejudice which would pose problems.

[Konn]

This is from a recent Q&A

Q: I really hope you're not going to do a love triangle between Kaladin, Adolin, and Shallan."

A: Brandon's response (which he worded quite carefully) was, "I'm not a fan of the traditional love triangle. However, I am fond of conflict in relationships." And he left it at that xD

i have a feeling that shallan will end up with non of them

Ooh, interesting question. For my part, though, I don't interpret this as suggesting that Shallan will end up with neither Kaladin nor Adolin. I would rather say that of those two potential relationships (though I am not saying it necessarily has to be one of those two), Shalladin already has a lot of conflicts to go through (see the 'who will Shallan end the series with' discussion), suggesting that developing that relationship could fit in with how Mr. S likes to write relationships, and hence make it more likely.

With Adolin, I would say that the conflicts in the relationship are less apparent. I think that him killing Sadeas and perhaps him becoming jealous and feeling redundant with all the KR's around might improve the chances for Shadolin because it might bring some interesting conflicts into the relationship, even though there is a risk that he may get 'clingy', which I don't think would improve his chances with Shallan given her Daddy issues. The only other issue that could be an interesting point of conflict with Shadolin which I felt was feasible after WoR was the love-triangle with Kaladin, but if Mr. S don't particularly favor those kind of relationship conflicts I don't think that there is all that much interesting with Shadolin in terms of conflicts in the relationship. However, looking at the quote, which is described as having been worded carefully, the word traditional stands out (to me), so, perhaps Mr. S has plans to write an untraditional love triangle? Try on Shadoladin for size? 

Edit: Shadoladin was a joke.

Edit 2: Having so much fun with Shadoladin, I forgot to make my final point that I think this answer from Mr. S is increasing the odds of Shalladin happening. 

Edited March 21, 2014 by Konn

[rererak]

Bringing the topic a little back to focus, I'm glad someone else noticed the similarities of the three. I am presently on my post-WoR reread so I'll try to pull up quotes of comparison for Navani/Shallan, Dalinar/Kaladin, and Adolin/Gavilar, especially the latter since people mentioned that Dalinar himself makes the comparison, and I think that's very good. Yes, I agree that their judgments aren't precise, such as Dalinar not thinking Adolin could do something like what happened at the end of WoR, but do you honestly think Gavilar was completely sinless? I would gather not since he chose to make a kingdom the same way Dalinar thinks is now the wrong way--through beating faces in. I think Dalinar's impression is the strongly biased one of a younger brother idolizing his older brother, and Renarin (oh dear, now that's a whole 'nother issue) is likely to also be jealous, just better at hiding it. We've yet to have a Ren point of view.

 

I'd like to say, my HOPE is that Kaladin ends up with Shallan but I do not think that's guaranteed. I'm trying not to be too firm in my predictions because that ends horribly if I'm wrong, and I love this series way to much to let a side-romance-plot ruin it. I think the fact that all six are similar in character and similar in the setup for romance could mean that Shallan can go down a different path, a path that let's Navani see what could have happened or let's Navani help her in her choices. They're similar so that they can be different, so Shallan can choose another route. Does that eliminate the possibility of Adolin dying like Gavilar? Nope.

 

If Navani does choose to try and assist Shallan though, I think she (and Jasnah actually, although I doubt she'd care) would be able to unbiased enough not to let the fact Adolin is their nephew/cousin get in the way with helping Shallan make the right choices. So at least Shallan has good support, which Navani probably didn't have.

 

Also, on the Shallan bit, I think there IS some similarities between Navani and Shallan that are very strong. Having a Navani POV will help clarify that, but them both being incredibly intelligent but not abandoning their emotions (like Jasnah) is one major staple. At the very least, Shallan is nothing like shshshsh

[snote]

I almost feel that after Navani's own personal experience with marriage to the wrong person. That she might have a Wit style story that will aid Shallan in her decision on who she should be with. If you look at all the bits that each person likes in the other. Adolin obviously thinks that Shallan is attractive and is happy to have a layer of formality that keeps his relationship intact. Something that prevents the girl from leaving because of something stupid or something he does to sabotage things either self destructively or otherwise. Shallan obviously thinks Adolin is attractive and has this charm and ease that is appealing. Then there is Shallan's thoughts on Kaladin. She states he is attractive in a certain way. I think the comparison is between Kaladin being a natural rock formation and Adolin a finely crafted statue. She finds that Adolin isn't dumb by any means, but that Kaladin is much sharper than he is. She fears Kal's intensity but that is also something to like after you understand it or once its flames become warm instead of burning. Also, Kaladin doesn't mollycoddle her. In the casm scene, after the first night, he starts to respect her. Then after she defines her inner turmoil he is basically smitten. So, the point being, between the two the similarities she likes in Adolin, she also sees in Kaladin. It just seems to me that she has more boxes checked with Kaladin. I think she does enjoy the safety for her family's status that Adolin brings. Though, once she finds out that he is capable of straight up murder. That might dissolve.

[Cheeky-eyes]

And we shouldn't forget that Daliner did marry someone else as well, I think it was implied (or stated) that it was after Navani went after Gavilar but that does introduce a forth element to that relationship. And to further the parallel there is the mysterious Tarah from Kaladin's past who might have a bigger role to play later on if the parallel continues. 

 

Though I agree with Konn, Shallan (or one of the boys) might take the third option and take the love triangle in a completely different direction. And there is always friendship, if two of the parties agree in the end that that's the level of attraction they feel for one another. 

 

And Shadoladin would be a very different diviation from the norm. Adolin and Kaladin did have a wonderful hatemance going on so if anything the resulting snark would be wonderful.   

[snote]

 

 

 there is the mysterious Tarah from Kaladin's past who might have a bigger role to play later on if the parallel continues. 

I thought Tarah had been killed in a way that left Kaladin blaming himself for her death? I know he blames himself for deaths that happened 4,500 years before he was born, or is that what you're saying? Because his last relationship was with a girl who is now dead, he might not let himself get close enough to Shallan (or other girls) to do anything but be awkward? If so, I bet you're right. I almost think the reason that he likes her so much, is that if you notice, she and Syl have very similar personalities. They are both jibers and talk in figure 8's. (Saying they talk in circles doesn't do either of them justice!) I don't think that Kaladin and Pattern are of a similar ilk, maybe his overt seriousness at times but Syl and Shallan are peas in a pod in some ways. Beautiful, articulate, and usually correct. 

[Elena]

Tarah is most likely still alive, as kaladin thijks to himself that his failure with her was 'different' from that with Tien. I dont even think they had a proper relationship, what with Kal still angsting about his brother's death - IMO the failure had something to do with him being unable to function in a relationship or the likes.

[Martinitram]

At the end of WoR, Kaladin is on his way back to Hearthstone at some point. Could he reconnect with Laral somehow? Could Laral be the equivalent of Dalinar's 'Shshshshsh' to more clearly define this 'Shadoladin' as a parallel to 'Navani Gavilar Dalinar'?  

[snote]

At the end of WoR, Kaladin is on his way back to Hearthstone at some point. Could he reconnect with Laral somehow? Could Laral be the equivalent of Dalinar's 'Shshshshsh' to more clearly define this 'Shadoladin' as a parallel to 'Navani Gavilar Dalinar'?  

I'd say he almost certainly WILL reconnect with her. I think it will be a situation where she is married to Rashone, very unhappy, and more lighteyed than when she last saw him. (Meaning that instead of being the little girl he remembers as not caring what his eye color was, and being kind of a tomboy. She will be the wife of a city lord. The wife of a city lord who is inherently unpleasant.)

I think she will be happy to see his "changes" both as a KR with superpowers and as a lighteyes. I think she may regret her life and what she could have had with Kal as opposed to Senior Grumpypants. It may give Kaladin some peace to find her disheveled in such a way, after their last encounter consisted of her either ignoring him, or telling him to do what Rashone's son wanted. Now, instead of being a dark eyed surgeon's son. Kaladin is a shardbearer, a lighteyes, captain of the guard to the king and his uncle the two most powerful politcal leaders in the world, and one of the main members of the newly re-founded Knights Radiant, he outranks both her and Rashone by a couple dozen don (figuratively).

I think it will be a bittersweet meeting for the two of them.

[Elena]

I like to think they will reconnect, but I'm not really liking all this '..and Laral will see what she's missed on!' comments. I mean, what else could she have done? She was only thirteen when her father died, and lived with Roshone and his son since then -- it's not like she had much of a choice in the matter. What was she supposed to do, run and hug the son of the man Roshone so clearly despised in front of his son/her supposed future husband? 
Laral is only a victim in this, and I really hope things will get better for her later on.

[Ardar]

I, personally, think that a repeat of the Navani/Dalinar/Galivar love triangle would be bad. If the love story were to proceed that way Navani might warn Shallan away from getting stuck in a shallow relationship and repeating her mistakes (even if the guy she is warning Shallan away from is her nephew). A parallel between the two (potential) triangles is that Kaladin met Shallan first and he was the one to introduce her to Adolin (-ish, he showed her into the room in which Adolin and the high princes were): which is similar to how Dalinar introduced Navani to Galivar.

[Seloun]

I like to think they will reconnect, but I'm not really liking all this '..and Laral will see what she's missed on!' comments. I mean, what else could she have done? She was only thirteen when her father died, and lived with Roshone and his son since then -- it's not like she had much of a choice in the matter. What was she supposed to do, run and hug the son of the man Roshone so clearly despised in front of his son/her supposed future husband? 

Laral is only a victim in this, and I really hope things will get better for her later on.

 

Well, to be fair, she does treat him somewhat dismissively during Kaladin's flashback, and I suspect this is what people have in mind when thinking bad thoughts about Laral:

 

 

“If you’re expecting some kind of tip or reward for just fetching me a meal…”

 

“I’m not—I mean—” Kal looked to Laral. “Tell him, Laral.”

 

She looked away. “Well, go on, boy,” she said. “Do as you’re told. We’re hungry.”

 

Kal gaped at her, then felt his face redden even more. “I’m…I’m not going to fetch you anything!” he managed to say. “I wouldn’t do it no matter how many spheres you offer me. I’m not an errand boy, I’m a surgeon.”

 

But to be double-fair, Laral doesn't appear to like treating Kaladin poorly (note she turns her head away in the above passage, and):

 

 

Kal hesitated, growing angry.

 

“You see how his little mind works,” Rillir said to Laral. “Like a dying fire, burning what little fuel it has, pumping out smoke. Ah, and look, his face grows red from the heat of it.”

 

“Rillir, please,” Laral said, laying her hand on his arm.

 

Rillir glanced at her, then rolled his eyes. “You’re as provincial as my  father sometimes, dear.” He stood up straight and—with a look of resignation—led her past the nook and into the kitchen proper.

 

And to be triple-fair, Kaladin does note that he hasn't made a lot of effort to see Laral after Roshone arrives:

 

 

Would he see Laral here? He was embarrassed by how infrequently he thought about her these days.

 

However (quadruple-fair), Kaladin did try, at least at the beginning, to keep seeing Laral:

 

 

“Don’t hate them, Kal. They’re good people. In this case, they’re just repeating what they’ve heard.” She glanced at the citylord’s manor, distant upon a hill above the town. Every time Kal saw it, he felt like he should go up and talk to Laral. But the last few times he’d tried, he hadn’t been allowed to see her. Now that her father was dead, her nurse oversaw her time, and the woman didn’t think mingling with boys from the town was appropriate.

 

That said, we can't really blame Kaladin being turned away on Laral, either.

 

It's also worth noting that Laral seems to want to marry Kaladin, too, pre-Roshone - the entire passage is really too long to quote, but she implies pretty strongly that she wants him to become a soldier to win a Shardblade, thus becoming lighteyes and acceptable for them to get married.

 

On a close reading it's really hard to blame Laral for any of what occurred; the only really jarring part is where she fails to defend Kaladin from Rillir's insults, but it's also clear that she's extremely uncomfortable with them.

[snote]

I like to think they will reconnect, but I'm not really liking all this '..and Laral will see what she's missed on!' comments. I mean, what else could she have done? She was only thirteen when her father died, and lived with Roshone and his son since then -- it's not like she had much of a choice in the matter. What was she supposed to do, run and hug the son of the man Roshone so clearly despised in front of his son/her supposed future husband? 

Laral is only a victim in this, and I really hope things will get better for her later on.

 

Alright, I agree and now I feel bad! I mean Laral is a victim of Roshone's crappiness too. You're right. The only thing I feel was truly her fault was when Kaladin was asked to get Wyler (Is that his name? I cannot remember for the life of me.) and her food. She could have been quiet or indifferent but is straight up cruel to him. "Go ahead boy. Know your place." or something like that. Oooh, it just burns me up. (I know these are fictional characters. No real feelings were harmed and they were all just written from the imagination of a dude named Brandon. I can still pretend can't I?) It was intentionally barbed. The young Kaladin had never in his life, done one negative thing to Laral and she threw that stone at him? That's just not right. I am not saying that she deserves to pay for that one mistake forever but I felt like she chose her side in that moment. Even though she could have done so without the pain in it. "Please, Kaladin, we're hungry." Would have done the same thing, letting Kal know she didn't want to be in the situation. Yet she was having to pick the man she was betrothed to. It would have made sense to Kaladin in some small way, especially over time as he became more familiar with the affairs of the heart.

Ardar Wrote:

 

 

Navani might warn Shallan away from getting stuck in a shallow relationship and repeating her mistakes (even if the guy she is warning Shallan away from is her nephew)

I wrote something very similar to this, unless that's what you're referencing, so I obviously agree with you. I think the pragmatist and experience in Navani wouldn't want to see a girl, that is now part of her "clutch" as Adolin put it, about to marry someone who isn't right for her. Even if the other person is part of the same clutch. It just seems to me that Shallan and Kal fit better in their personalities. I just hope it doesn't turn out that Kal and Shal's mothers were sisters or something. I really do think that Kal's mom was part of a light eyed family some how.That she was just born dark eyed by some random happenstance or her parents were mixed light and dark. That her brothers and sisters were all light eyed but she and maybe one more got the dark eyed gene. Then married a dark eyed man for love instead of being "sold" to her husbands family for prestige and status.