WitSpren Posted March 18, 2014 Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 Relis apparently had a Spren at the dual and apparently it would not let him attach defenseless Renarin, but he thought it was OK to attack Kaladin. Obviously is was not OK & he "Killed" his Spren when he swong at Kal. Both Kal and Relis hear the Spren's dying scream. Then: **Relis dropped the blade as if bitten. He backed away, raising his hands to his head. "What is it? What is it! No, I didn't kill you!" He shrieked as if in great pain, ** So what kind of Spren was his Spren (Can't be honor yet - as so far Syl is the only one of those. Do we have any other clues from the book somewhere? Will Kal help him recover his Spren? What type of KR would Relis be? I can't find much to go on, but thought I would see if someone else could find some clues. Would Kal even want to help Relis recover his Spren - The guy was going to kill him. Thoughts anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinachu Posted March 18, 2014 Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 Relis apparently had a Spren at the dual and apparently it would not let him attach defenseless Renarin, but he thought it was OK to attack Kaladin. Obviously is was not OK & he "Killed" his Spren when he swong at Kal. Both Kal and Relis hear the Spren's dying scream. Then: **Relis dropped the blade as if bitten. He backed away, raising his hands to his head. "What is it? What is it! No, I didn't kill you!" He shrieked as if in great pain, ** So what kind of Spren was his Spren (Can't be honor yet - as so far Syl is the only one of those. Do we have any other clues from the book somewhere? Will Kal help him recover his Spren? What type of KR would Relis be? I can't find much to go on, but thought I would see if someone else could find some clues. Would Kal even want to help Relis recover his Spren - The guy was going to kill him. Thoughts anyone? It is Pattern (Shallan's spren) who is communicating with him. I do not believe Relis has his own spren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerionBFII Posted March 18, 2014 Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 I think when Kaladin blocked the blade Relis became aware of what the Shardblade was because Kaladin touched it and it resonated through them both allowing Relis to hear. I don't think he has the right temperament to be a Knight Radiant/ Surgebinder he seems more of an arrogant bully boy. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rooster Posted March 18, 2014 Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 I agreed that it was Pattern inside of his helm. Just before that Shallan sends Pattern off to "Do something" . Then Relis hears screaming which looks like it drives him mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlatLine Posted March 18, 2014 Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 (edited) I'll have to go back and retread, but I took it as Kaladin had caught the blade with his hand. He had asked Zehal about it and Dalinar had done it too. So Relis was surprised and terrified by it, maybe he heard screams too. Edited March 18, 2014 by FlatLine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eejit Posted March 18, 2014 Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 It's the dead spren in Relis' blade screaming when touched by a Knight Radiant. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksiel Posted March 18, 2014 Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 I too think it was the voice of the dead spren and Relis only became aware of it as Kaladin touched the Blade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WitSpren Posted March 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 It's the dead spren in Relis' blade screaming when touched by a Knight Radiant. I can't see that as being the case from his reaction: Relis dropped the blade as if bitten. He backed away, raising his hands to his head. "What is it? What is it! No, I didn't kill you!" He shrieked as if in great pain. Then he can be heard running off screaming far into the other room / hallway This is not the reaction from a normal "screaming" Shardblade. Neither Kal or Delinar or Renarin experience such symptoms that drive them from the room screaming. All their symptoms disappear immediately. The only thing similar was when Kal lost Syl in the Chasum fall, & that knocked him immediately. If he had been concious - I propose that he would have been effected the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aminar Posted March 18, 2014 Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 I can't see that as being the case from his reaction: Relis dropped the blade as if bitten. He backed away, raising his hands to his head. "What is it? What is it! No, I didn't kill you!" He shrieked as if in great pain. Then he can be heard running off screaming far into the other room / hallway This is not the reaction from a normal "screaming" Shardblade. Neither Kal or Delinar or Renarin experience such symptoms that drive them from the room screaming. All their symptoms disappear immediately. The only thing similar was when Kal lost Syl in the Chasum fall, & that knocked him immediately. If he had been concious - I propose that he would have been effected the same. Relis is the only person we see who holds a blade touched by a knight radiant while he is touching it. Renarin does the same, but it's his blade and he has a Spren.What this means is that Relis could very very easily be haunted by a zombie spren for the time being. He obviously heard the screaming, but the screaming was closer to him somehow, because it was his blade, and Kal reawakening it by touching the blade. Renarin was likely protected by this because he already has a Spren bond. I wish we heard more about Relis later... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted March 18, 2014 Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 I agree with Eejit and Aleksiel. I can't see that as being the case from his reaction: Relis dropped the blade as if bitten. He backed away, raising his hands to his head. "What is it? What is it! No, I didn't kill you!" He shrieked as if in great pain. Then he can be heard running off screaming far into the other room / hallway This is not the reaction from a normal "screaming" Shardblade. Neither Kal or Delinar or Renarin experience such symptoms that drive them from the room screaming. All their symptoms disappear immediately. The only thing similar was when Kal lost Syl in the Chasum fall, & that knocked him immediately. If he had been concious - I propose that he would have been effected the same. There are differences between Relis and the others. Relis is not a proto-Radiant and is presumably mentally weaker. It also makes Renarin's incapacity heroic, as he even tried to train and fight with the screaming going on. The story demands that Relis lose. If He doesn't run away, how are unarmed and stormlightless Kaladin & co going to beat him? Some supporting evidence for the screaming being the cause is Kaladin's comment that he doesn't think anybody besides he and Relis heard the screaming. Finally, Relis has bonded the blade and used it for years as the reigning dueling champion. He may be more linked to it and more affected by it as a result. His dialogue suggests that he got more from it than Kaladin did 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhurgoyf Posted March 18, 2014 Report Share Posted March 18, 2014 I think we also might be underestimating the effect of simple shock. Yes, magic is known to people in this world, but that doesn't mean that they would blindly accept all supernatural occurences as par for the course. These people know nothing of sentient beings living inside their swords, so fighting someone with superhuman athleticism who makes your sword scream out accusations of murder when he touches it would naturally be quite a shock. Plus, the KRs all had spren familiars to explain these things to them. Remember that a shardbearer can take on dozens of fully armed soldiers at once and barely break a sweat, but two of them couldn't harm an unarmed man holding nothing but a helmet. Relis was probably unnerved already, then Pattern starts playing tricks on him (which would cause just about anyone to question their sanity). At that point just about anything unusual could have been the final straw. A screaming sword almost seems like overkill, poor dude. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junior Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 Relis is the only person we see who holds a blade touched by a knight radiant while he is touching it. Renarin does the same, but it's his blade and he has a Spren. What this means is that Relis could very very easily be haunted by a zombie spren for the time being. He obviously heard the screaming, but the screaming was closer to him somehow, because it was his blade, and Kal reawakening it by touching the blade. Renarin was likely protected by this because he already has a Spren bond. I wish we heard more about Relis later... Renarin more than likely already had a basic bond in place with his spren when he received his shardblade. We don't know whether his spren was actually talking to him yet or aware enough of what was going on to warn him that using a shardblade was a Bad Thing (it seems doubtful, though). But more than likely Renarin just accepted that the screaming is what happened when you used a shardblade. And he needed to toughen up and stick with it. Or it was a weird symptom of his "epilepsy". Either way, Renarin more than likely accepted that the screaming was "normal", and the problem was with him. Relis, of course, has had lots of experience using a shardblade prior to this incident. And he's *never* had it scream at him before. When it does start screaming at him, he understandably freaks out. Shardblades aren't supposed to do that. Dalinar has a somewhat similar reaction when his own blade screams at the end of WoR - he's so shocked that he drops it. Also, Kaladin's touch on the blade seems to have somehow intensified Relis's experience. No one else in WoR ever actually hears anything other than mindless screaming, but Relis seems to actually hear the spren accusing him of killing it. Personally, I'm hoping that we get the chance to meet a somewhat more humble Relis in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejopen27 Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 Pattern was distracting the first shardbearer to attack Renarin A something who was just playing with him. Relis was clearly hearing from the Spren in his blade. The comment "I didn't kill you" gives it away. When Kaladin touched the blade that had been bonded to Relis woke up and Relis got the full effect of a screaming spren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 I had always interpreted this scene as Syl being the major reason why Relis heard the Shardblade scream. It's only when Kaladin touched the blade that Relis heard the screams, and I think that's just because Syl's reactions, which must have been transmitted through touch. I don't think anything mysterious is going on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmingly Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 Apart from a spirit of the wind communicating the dying screams of a dead companion in the form of a magical sword to it's owner, who is bonded to it in such a way that he can zombify it from mist and use it to cut people's souls? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolveryne Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 Apart from a spirit of the wind communicating the dying screams of a dead companion in the form of a magical sword to it's owner, who is bonded to it in such a way that he can zombify it from mist and use it to cut people's souls? Well, that just goes with out saying... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 Apart from a spirit of the wind communicating the dying screams of a dead companion in the form of a magical sword to it's owner, who is bonded to it in such a way that he can zombify it from mist and use it to cut people's souls? Yes, but nothing mysterious with Relis, I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eejit Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 (edited) I had always interpreted this scene as Syl being the major reason why Relis heard the Shardblade scream. It's only when Kaladin touched the blade that Relis heard the screams, and I think that's just because Syl's reactions, which must have been transmitted through touch. I don't think anything mysterious is going on here. Syl's reactions wouldn't include accusations of Relis having killed her. However it makes some sense if it's the blade's dead spren screaming. Edited March 19, 2014 by Eejit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 Yes, it's the dead spren saying that, but the only reason the dead spren screams is because of that contact with Syl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WitSpren Posted March 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 Syl's reactions wouldn't include accusations of Relis having killed her. However it makes some sense if it's the blade's dead spren screaming. I agree that Syl's reaction would not have caused Relis to react like this. Also when Adolin handed the Salinor's Shardblade to Renarin after the Salinor Dual, it is obvious that they both would be touching it at the same time. So Adolin who is used to Shardblades, surely would have noticed if the thing was screaming at him as it was at Renarin. Renarin "grimaced" as he took it. Obviously hearing the screams and trying to be brave/manly/macho like the rest of the men in his family. But Adolin had no such reaction - we are in his POV so he surely would have noted it in his own POV. It did not happen! So by this - the Relis Dual has to be something else. BUT - Flaw in my original theory - if Relis has a Spren, why was it not screaming at him for touching his own blade before his Kal attack? The only ways that I can (so far) think of that makes all these pieces fit together are: 1. If Relis had already reached a Shardbearing Surgbinder stage. Shallan got her blade a long time ago (11), so maybe Relis was advanced enough to have a Shardblade, but like Shallan was not to the full KR stage. Beats me what KR he would be, but it would have to be one that could be killed by Relis trying to kill an unarmed man in a "somewhat friendly" duel. If that was the case, he would have had to be "hiding" his original Shardblade. Assuming he ever had one - most likely did because I think that it would be noted if he just popped up with a unknown blade. I think that this is the least likely as he has not been displaying any powers that are noted, but then Kal, Shallan, Jasna & Renerin were pretty good at hiding their powers. A case For this theory is that he was the TOP dueler for a long time. Might have had a little Stormlight boost? Just because he was an chull is not an argument against - as Kal & Shallan were also somewhat annoying at times. 2. The only other option (that I can think of so far) is that Relis said the words associated with his dead Blade & was in the initial process of reviving it. Similar to what I think that Adolin might be in the process of doing - except that Adolin has not stated the right Words yet. So maybe his blade was starting to "talk" to him in his head, but by trying to actually Kill Kal, he violated the oaths (he had previously said) & killed the semi-dead blade spren again. Both of these scenarios seem to meet all the FEW known facts. I am kind of partial to the last one - because I would like to see all the blades "revived" and it adds to that theory. So what do you think? Anyone else have another option that actually meets all the puzzle pieces? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junior Posted March 19, 2014 Report Share Posted March 19, 2014 (edited) Also when Adolin handed the Salinor's Shardblade to Renarin after the Salinor Dual, it is obvious that they both would be touching it at the same time. So Adolin who is used to Shardblades, surely would have noticed if the thing was screaming at him as it was at Renarin. Renarin "grimaced" as he took it. Obviously hearing the screams and trying to be brave/manly/macho like the rest of the men in his family. But Adolin had no such reaction - we are in his POV so he surely would have noted it in his own POV. It did not happen! So by this - the Relis Dual has to be something else. Adolin isn't bonded to the blades that he hands to Renarin. Relis is bonded to the blade that Kaladin catches. I think that's what you overlooked. Edited March 19, 2014 by junior 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WitSpren Posted March 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) Edit double post - it did not show up - so I retyped it & now they both pop up GRRRR @junior Renerin was not bonded either but he showed a reaction as soon as Adolin handed him the blade. Edited March 20, 2014 by WitSpren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junior Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Did you just repost your post from an hour ago verbatim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melancholy Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 I beleive the stronger your nahel bond the more revived a dead spren becomes, I beleive there WOB saying dalinar had a bond before he took the oaths but he didnt hear the screams till after he spoke his first 2 oaths and then he had to summon and touch the blade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WitSpren Posted March 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 (edited) Did you just repost your post from an hour ago verbatim? Yes. It did not show up for me so I thought it got eaten by Post eater Voidspren. Retyped & re-posted it & they both showed up. GRRRR @ melancholy Who did he have a Bond with? Some other Spren? Stormfather clearly did not give his bond willingly. Can you start with one Spren and switch to a different Spren? That just raises a whole lot of questions. Do you have the exact quote? Edited to Add: Adolin isn't bonded to the blades that he hands to Renarin. Relis is bonded to the blade that Kaladin catches. I think that's what you overlooked. If Relis's blade was a "Dead" normal blade that he was bonded to, it would not create the reaction from him to make him say "What is it? What is it! No, I didn't kill you!" & make him run screaming from the arena. It does not make sense like that. Only if he is talking to his Spren or an Awakening blade. Edited March 20, 2014 by WitSpren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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