[OB/Oathbringer] Rosharan Spren *spoilers*

[+tabitreader]

Did Roshar originally have Spren?

Sylphrena indicates 4 genders of spren. 2 for the Parsh, 2 for the human. I don't think Roshar was formed like other Shardic worlds. No other Cosmere world has spren like Roshar, so far. It would seem that the Parsh thought of their objects being Malen and Femalen, voila SPREN! Perhaps? Maybe?

Did the way they think or sing create the spren way back then? Shard worlds seem to have the 3 realms setup. Roshar wasn't created by a Shard (that I'm aware of.)

The way I understand the history is that Odium saw the existing native Parsh and decided to become their god. He got invested to that Solar System. Along comes the human Voidbringers to settle around Shinovar (initially.)

Honor and Cultivation either settled with them or decided to call it home at a later time. Introducing Honor's high storms, Odium's Everstorm (old in design) and the Cultivation's/Nightwatcher's Old Magic.

When I read TWoK, I assumed Honors' death and Splintering brought about the spren. I have now been proven false.

So, I suspect Roshar was similar to an Earth like world and topography. The Parsh evolved naturally and all was pleasant until Odium rolled on in.

My question is HOW and WHEN do you think Roshar got spren?

A certified timeline of these early events would be great to read. Thank you. 

Edited May 1, 2018 by tabitreader
Spelling error, title addition

[Kidpen]

I believe Adonalsium specifically built spren into the world. I don't have any citation for that, it's just what I've seen.

[Ixthos]

@tabitreader The 4 genders seem to be male, female, malen, and femalen, i.e. the standard two genders and the asexual non-mateform genders. It might well not be the case, but I think that is the generally understood explination

Also, I think that the answer is that Spren were already present before Honour and Cultivation arrived as they arrived after the Shattering 

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/76/#e6173

 

Edited April 29, 2018 by Ixthos
Added answering the question

[Random Reader]

I remember something saying that Adonalsium specifically created Roshar.

[supersmith]

1 hour ago, Ixthos said:

@tabitreader The 4 genders seem to be male, female, malen, and femalen, i.e. the standard two genders and the asexual non-mateform genders. It might well not be the case, but I think that is the generally understood explination

Also, I think that the answer is that Spren were already present before Honour and Cultivation arrived as they arrived after the Shattering 

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/76/#e6173

 

If Soren were around today they would have 3 genders. Male female and attack helicopter

[Quickbronze]

BipedSnowman

Does this [map of Roshar] look like a storm to anyone else?

Brandon Sanderson

I was searching for something that at once felt organic, but would hint at a pattern. (Much like cymatic patterns, as referenced in the first book.) Fractals and mathematical functions became my go-to place to hunt, as I like the blend of structure and spontaneity they can sometimes exhibit. The slice of the Julia Set was the one that stuck with me as feeling perfect for Roshar. As the continent was specifically grown by Adonalsium, you now know the seed that was used in-world to create it.

The fact that it looked like a swirling cloud is part of this all--but also part of the connection between natural patterns and the underlying math, which is a primary theme of the Stormlight books. So yes, it SHOULD look like a storm--but for deeper reasons than you might assume.

Argent

I asked Isaac recently, but he suggested you might be the right person for this - do you have a specific equation for the Julia set you used to generate Roshar? I know it resembles a few easily Google-able images of (shadows of slices of) Julia sets, but I was curious if had specific numbers here.

Brandon Sanderson

I don't have any numbers I could give you. Sorry. I might be able to find them, if I looked, but it would take more time than I'd like.

Footnote: The specific equations were determined later in that reddit conversation.
source

Per this WoB, Adonalsium created Roshar; the supercontinent, at least. I don't think any other beings capable of making a world existed while Adonalsium was still alive, so it's safe to assume that Adonalsium did the whole thing.

[Weltall]

PSST, you need to put OB/Oathbringer in the topic title if you're going to discuss things from the book outside of spoiler tags.

Roshar had spren before the Shattering. Adonalsium literally created not only the planet but the entire star system. The spren that were already on Roshar at the Shattering because associated with specific Shards, particularly Cultivation.

3 hours ago, tabitreader said:

Sylphrena indicates 4 genders of spren. 2 for the Parsh, 2 for the human. I don't think Roshar was formed like other Shardic worlds. No other Cosmere world has spren like Roshar, so far. It would seem that the Parsh thought of their objects being Malen and Femalen, voila SPREN! Perhaps? Maybe?

As mentioned, the Parsh have four genders (malen and femalen in addition to male and female) so the four-gendered spren reflect that.

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Honor and Cultivation either settled with them or decided to call it home at a later time. Introducing Honor's high storms, Odium's Everstorm (old in design) and the Cultivation's/Nightwatcher's Old Magic.

Honor and Cultivation came first, Odium arrived later. Brandon has described the Old Magic as 'its own weird thing' so it may be something that predated the Shards and Cultivation became associated with it, rather than being the creator of it. We know that the Surges are a system-wide thing rather than being exclusively 'of Honor' or Honor and Cultivation.

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So, I suspect Roshar was similar to an Earth like world and topography. The Parsh evolved naturally and all was pleasant until Odium rolled on in.

As mentioned, Roshar has always been like we see it and a lot of the life on the planet has been shaped by its unusual conditions and the presence of spren. Even the highstorms predate the Shattering, though the Stormfather has changed considerably since the beginning. Brandon has also mentioned that Roshar has a very bountiful ecosystem, it's just different from what we're used to. The analogy of a coral reef works extremely well and it was one of Brandon's sources of inspiration.

Edited April 29, 2018 by Weltall

[RShara]

Adonalsium made the entire Roshar system, and there were spren there before Honor and Cultivation arrived.

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Overlord Jebus [PENDING REVIEW]

Was just the continent of Roshar created by Adonalsium or was the whole system created?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Whole system was created.

source

 

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Questioner (paraphrased)

Are spren visible on Roshar because Cultivation is present?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Cultivation has a lot to do with the spren but the spren-- would-- it's hard to separate them, but some spren did exist before Cultivation arrived.

source

 

[+tabitreader]

Thanks for breaking all this down Noob style for me. I think I now finally understand something crucial to this Cosmere.  

Each world was built with its own fantasy and personality and circumstances. Originally I had thought if you were to remove all of the planets problems and circumstances that it would resemble something like our Earth. The flaw in my thinking was that Brandon originally built these worlds with fantasy and so they're designed to be unique and fantastic, duh!

I always thought the Spren were a symptom of something that was wrong or had gone wrong at some point. But if Adolalsium (*cough* BS) created it that way then it's in the fundaments of the world. 

Thanks for clearing this up for me, finally. I think many questions could easily be cleared up with a Forum sticky and a link with instructions to the WoB database. I can't seem to find it without a link. Even when there I remember searching the word Adolin for some theory in mind and it said...returned with (0) hits. So I don't know what the trick is to search there yet, likely some tricky punctuation thing. All that data and no way for the noobs to find it.

[Weltall]

On 5/8/2018 at 9:39 AM, tabitreader said:

I always thought the Spren were a symptom of something that was wrong or had gone wrong at some point. But if Adolalsium (*cough* BS) created it that way then it's in the fundaments of the world.

For what it's worth this line of thinking isn't exactly incorrect, it's just perhaps that you took it a step too far. We know for example that the seon and skaze didn't exist on Sel before the splintering of Devotion and Dominion, so in that case their existence is a sign that something 'went wrong'. But on Roshar they've always been present in some form, even if their role has changed over time.

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Thanks for clearing this up for me, finally. I think many questions could easily be cleared up with a Forum sticky and a link with instructions to the WoB database. I can't seem to find it without a link.

There pretty much is one already; right at the top of the forum you can see links to the Coppermind (the wiki, not always up to date but still a good resource) and Arcanum (the WoBs, all the WoBs). From there, it's pretty intuitive. Not all of the older WoBs are in the database yet but they're being added and not every relevant tag might be applied to every WoB so you might have to try a couple of options before you hit on the ones you're looking for, but for the most part you should be able to find them pretty easily.

And if all else fails, just search by event, read everything and lose track of time as you dive into the Sea of WoB. xD