Lhan Interlude

[Ryshadium]

This is my first topic, so I hope you'll be kind!

 

The interludes are some of my favorite parts of the novels, as they do an incredible job of adding color to the world of Roshar, and let us as readers see some areas we may not be able to see through the main characters.

 

I wanted to discuss the Lhan interlude, as it relates to Jasnah's prologue.  In the prologue, Jasnah was very suspicious of Elkohar's wife, Queen Aesudan.  Jasnah wouldn't spy on someone she felt was worthless, yet the Lhan interlude shows the Queen as spoiled, selfish, lazy and wasteful.  Why would Jasnah spy on someone like that? Is there something deeper going on with the Queen?

 

Also, poor Pai (which of course bears resemblance to Pailah, whom Adolin references early on before his duel)

 

I wish I had more of a formulated idea, but this interlude seems to tell more than just show us the start of the revolt in Kholinar, and I wondered if anyone else had any thoughts on the matter. 

[deddinty]

This made me wonder about the queen's political and family connections. I had wondered in the past if she wasn't someone's powerful daughter, perhaps Sadeas even, but I would assume we'd have heard by now if she was. Since Jasnah wanted her assassinated right away, perhaps she has connections to one of our known or unknown secret groups? Alternatively I'm wondering if she might not be Taravagian's daughter now, sine her actions resulted in the chaos he wanted, and it's even implied that Taravangian might have been in Kholinar when Gavilar was assassinated

I hope we learn a lot more about her in the next book. The queen (like Tarah) is one of those mysterious figures that we have no good information on yet. But if Kal does manage to make it to Kholinar, I'm betting we'll find out.

Edited March 12, 2014 by deddinty

[Moogle]

I have very little to add, except a fuzzy notion that the Diagram was involved with Pai. Then again, does Kholinar falling into chaos really help the Diagrammists?

[Ryshadium]

The Diagrammists certainly pushed for chaos in Jah Keved, to their advantage. It could be part of their plan, for sure. Pai also attacks the church pretty heavily, is the diagram anti Vorin?

 

edited for spelling. 

Edited March 12, 2014 by Ryshadium

[Edgedancer]

I have very little to add, except a fuzzy notion that the Diagram was involved with Pai. Then again, does Kholinar falling into chaos really help the Diagrammists?

The Diagram plans for Taravangian to become the king of everything and as long as Kohlinar is stable there is no reason for them to join him. Conclusion: They want to use the chaos in a similar way they did in Jah Keved.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Edgedancer

[RShara]

I think Pai did those things out of righteous fury, rather than as being one of the diagramists (should there be 1 m or 2??).

 

Having a lazy, selfish, deluded Queen of Alethkar could be reason enough for removal for someone as protective as Jasnah.

[Moogle]

The Diagramists certainly pushed for chaos in Jah Kaved, to their advantage. It could be part of their plan, for sure. Pai also attacks the church pretty heavily, is the diagram anti vorin?

 

Taravangian explicitly says that Vorinism is fraudulent because Honor is dead. So, in a way, I suppose you could say that the Diagram is anti-Vorinism. Only one ardent is part of the Diagram, after all. (Suspicious, that. Hidden Herald alert.)

 

I think Pai did those things out of righteous fury, rather than as being one of the diagramists (should there be 1 m or 2??).

 

Having a lazy, selfish, deluded Queen of Alethkar could be reason enough for removal for someone as protective as Jasnah.

 

I agree on Pai's motivations, but I think it possible that the Diagrammists arranged for her to be transferred there.

 

The Diagram plans for Taravangian to become the king of everything and as long as Kohlinar is stable there is no reason for them to join him. Conclusion: They want to use the chaos in a similar way they did in Jah Keved.

 

I do not believe this is necessarily true. Szeth was not told to assassinate highprinces in Alethkar (beyond Dalinar). They were sufficiently chaotic already, I think. Dalinar is ruining that part of the plan, of course...

 

I am not so sure that riots in Kholinar were part of their plan at all. You only need the leadership in chaos, not the people. I think it is potentially something they might have tried to accomplish but do not think it is guaranteed.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Moogle

[Ryshadium]

That's true, Moogle.  Where did Pai come from, I wonder, to have such righteous indignation?  It's noted that her name is decidedly not Alethi (though the interlude also gives the excuse that she could have changed it).  Perhaps I am thinking too deeply about her motivations, and she is just what she seems - a Vorin purist who is disgusted by the current state of things.  

[name_here]

Jasnah might have been worried that she was only pretending to be spoiled, selfish, and lazy, much like why Kaladin kept glaring at Shallan. She apparently changed her mind about removing her. However, I also recall Navani implying the queen was at least moderately qualified at political maneuvering.

 

I doubt the riots were part of the Diagram's plan. They're certainly terribly ill-timed; riots and the Everstorm combined could practically level the city. Even if the Diagram didn't predict the timing of the Everstorm, it just doesn't quite seem to fit the plan to set off riots in Kholinar. The most likely outcome if they hadn't gone to Urithiru would be forcing portions of the army to return to restore order, disrupting efforts to destroy the Parshendi without leaving a good chance for taking over.

 

If anyone planned this it'd be Odium or the Sons of Honor, but on the balance of things I feel like this is simply a devout Ardent with phenomenally bad luck.

[shinintendo]

Are we going to see more of lhan I wonder...He doesn't seem more than meets the eye. but why not Pai interlude if the main focus is on Pai, unless we are going to see more lhan pov.

[Shardlet]

Taravangian explicitly says that Vorinism is fraudulent because Honor is dead. So, in a way, I suppose you could say that the Diagram is anti-Vorinism. Only one ardent is part of the Diagram, after all. (Suspicious, that. Hidden Herald alert.)

 

Didn't Taravangian indicate that he and the ardent had grown up together?  If so, then the ardent could not be a Herald.  Taravangian would have noticed that the ardent did not age substantially over a period of 50 years or so.

[Ryshadium]

When reading, at first I thought Pai herself was a herald, but her untimely execution killed that idea.

[Moogle]

Didn't Taravangian indicate that he and the ardent had grown up together?  If so, then the ardent could not be a Herald.  Taravangian would have noticed that the ardent did not age substantially over a period of 50 years or so.

 

I don't think so. Dova is the ardent in question, and she's only referred to once in this entire section here:

 

“What is the day’s news from home?” Taravangian asked to draw attention from the tears he wiped away.

“Dova reports that the number of Death Rattles we’re finding has dropped even further. She didn’t find a single one yesterday, and only two the day before.”

“Moelach moves, then,” Taravangian said. “It is certain now. The creature must have been drawn by something westward.” What now? Did Taravangian suspend the murders? His heart yearned to— but if they could discover even one more glimmer about the future, one fact that could save hundreds of thousands, would it not be worth the lives of the few now?

“Tell Dova to continue the work,” he said. He had not anticipated that their covenant would attract the loyalty of an ardent, of all things. The Diagram, and its members, knew no boundaries . Dova had discovered their work on her own, and they’d needed to either induct her or assassinate her.

[Shardlet]

I don't think so. Dova is the ardent in question, and she's only referred to once in this entire section here:

 

You are right.  I had the ardent mixed up with the person with whom he was having that conversation you cited.  Don't recall his name off hand.

[Nyali]

(Sorry to necro this thread, but I wanted to talk about this subject and thought it'd be better than starting a new topic.)

 

I've been trying to pay careful attention to characters who seem "off," looking for Worldhoppers and Heralds. Having just re-read the Lhan interlude, I can't shake the feeling that "Pai" is very much not what she claims. She's described as decidedly non-Alethi, especially her name, which wasn't necessarily "Pai." It was "something like Pai" (the drunk Lhan couldn't really recall). She isn't afraid of physical harm and she cares about very, very different things than the rest of Alethkar. She's only been an Ardent for a year, but she knows quite a lot about how things were in Kholinar long before despite not being native to the region.

 

And then these's this quote: "But what do they do? Do they change their lives, do they listen to the Arguments, do they transform, recasting their souls into something greater, something better?"

 

Does anyone else get the feeling that:

1) "Pai" is actually Shai (aka Wan ShaiLu, a confirmed Worldhopper), and

2) She's not actually dead?

 

She's found kneeling on the floor, not moving and she isn't shown saying anything. Sounds like it could have been a Soulforged body double to me!

 

 

... but then I found this WoB, while looking for the one where I recall her being described as able to Worldhop:

 

QUESTION

Is Shai on Roshar?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Hehehe, good question!

QUESTION

Has she already popped up?

BRANDON SANDERSON

She has not already popped up.

QUESTION

So she's not a Radiant. Or is she?

BRANDON SANDERSON

You have not seen her on screen yet, other than in her story.

 

So, I guess I'm proven totally wrong. But I'll post this anyway! Because reasons!

Edited April 22, 2016 by Nyali

[BrightVoid]

I think that we will see another Lhan interlude to show the state of Kholinar before Kaladin shows up.

[Argel]

I think this is setup Interlude so that Brandon can use Lhan later on when a flashback wouldn't work, or when a different POV is being used.

Basically, Brandon has a character he can use in the Kholinar now, so e.g. he can be escaping with the queen, or someone Kal runs into, etc. Or give Lhan's POV of Kal arriving, etc. Basically, for juxtaposition, or maybe as a foil, or some other literary device.

[AerionBFII]

There's nobody there to keep an eye on her. No husband. No Dalinar. No Navani or Jasnah, she is surrounded by bad council and sycophants. She seems more incompetent from what i have seen or heard about her than a threat. I think Jasnah was mainly keeping an eye on her because she doesn't take chances when it comes to her family's well being.

 

Pai seemed more of a zealot than a saint... Anyway i can wait till a certain Darkeye strolls in (By which i meanfly)band says whats what.

[Vissy]

Shai? On Roshar?

 

Stormfather, where do you people get these ideas?

[Nyali]

Shai? On Roshar?

 

Stormfather, where do you people get these ideas?

 

Blame Brandon - I didn't consider it until he implied it in a WoB!

[Vissy]

Oh, good. I was already wondering if fans are just throwing cookie-cutter mold questions at Brandon.

 

 

Is character X from another Cosmere story on planet X?

[Argel]

Well, to be fair, he seems to be encouraging that too....

[Vissy]

Should just show up with a list of every major and minor character still alive, alongside a cross-reference chart including each of the planets in the Cosmere.