Theory: Gavilar's Still Alive

[Moogle]

Righto. This theory is a lot of guesswork, speculation, and usage of previous speculation, so take it with several truckloads of salt.

 

It is, in brief:

 

Gavilar is still alive, the 'Gavilar' who died was his bodyguard, Tearim, with a Lightweaving illusion on him to make him look like Gavilar, used on him by Shalash (or another Surgebinder).

 

Here is the evidence:

1. Gavilar was not wearing his armor around 10 minutes before he died in it.
   
   Proof:
   

    

   Tearim, captain of the King’s Guard, loomed behind them. He wore Gavilar’s Shardplate; the king himself had stopped wearing it of late, preferring to entrust it to Tearim, who was known as one of the world’s great duelists. Instead, Gavilar wore robes of a majestic, classical style.

   Jasnah meets with her assassin shortly after, then shortly after that, Szeth attacks.
   
   Subevidence: Armor takes time to put on. And servants. Gavilar would have had to stop talking with Jasnah, send Amaram on his task, then immediately head to his rooms and order his servants to put his armor on after having it taken off Tearim. Why would he take that exact moment to do that?
   
   Here's a quote with Dalinar's armor being put on:

    

   One always put the armor on from the feet upward. Shardplate was extremely heavy; without the enhanced strength it provided, no man would be able to fight in it. Dalinar stood still as the armor bearers affixed the cuisses over his thighs and locked them to the culet and faulds across his waist and lower back. A skirt made of small, interlocking plates came next, reaching down to just above the knees.

   It's slow.
   
   Subevidence: Szeth fought someone with incredible skill in Gavilar's Shardplate. Tearim was "one of the world's great duelists". So was Gavilar. Suspicious.
    

2. Tearim, Gavilar's bodyguard, is literally not mentioned in TWoK once. Why? Well, if he were dead...
    

3. For the purposes of this theory, Shalash is Baxil's Mistress and she's destroying art of herself.
   
   Shallash's Surges include Illumination, which allows for making illusions ala Elantris. I don't have time to grab a WoB on this, I'll put it in later.
   
   Shallash passed through the feast not too long before, as evidenced by Shallash's statue being missing.
   
   Proof:

    

   Szeth brushed by, continuing past a line of statues depicting the Ten Heralds from ancient Vorin theology. Jezerezeh, Ishi, Kelek, Talenelat. He counted off each one, and realized there were only nine here. One was conspicuously missing. Why had Shalash’s statue been removed?

   More proof that she might have been at the feast:

    

   Words echoed in the hallway, coming from up ahead. “I’m worried about Ash.”

   “You’re worried about everything.”

   Jasnah hesitated in the hallway.

   “She’s getting worse,” the voice continued. “We weren’t supposed to get worse. Am I getting worse? I think I feel worse.”

   “Shut up.”

   “I don’t like this. What we’ve done was wrong. That creature carries my lord’s own Blade. We shouldn’t have let him keep it. He—”

   Probably-Herald is talking about Ash (Shalash) as if they just recently saw her. Keep in mind that these two Probably-Heralds (Darkness and Uncertain Guy) were talking to Elhokar recently. They were involved with the royal family.
   
   If not Shalash, then allow me to be the first to bring forth the theory that Gavilar is the 'creature' with an Honorblade - potentially Shalash's, which would grant him Lightweaving.
   
   If not an Honorblade, then keep in mind that both Jasnah and Elhokar attracted some Shadesmar spren. It's possible their father, Gavilar, could have been a Surgebinder himself.
    

4. Gavilar's dying words:

    

   The king coughed. “You can tell…Thaidakar…that he’s too late….”

   “I don’t know who that is,” Szeth said, standing, his words slurring from his broken jaw. He held his hand to the side, resummoning his Shardblade. The king frowned.

   “Then who…? Restares? Sadeas? I never thought…”

   “My masters are the Parshendi,” Szeth said. Ten heartbeats passed, and his Blade dropped into his hand, wet with condensation. “The Parshendi? That makes no sense.” Gavilar coughed, hand quivering, reaching toward his chest and fumbling at a pocket. He pulled out a small crystalline sphere tied to a chain.

   “You must take this. They must not get it.” He seemed dazed. “Tell…tell my brother…he must find the most important words a man can say….”

   Read them while thinking Gavilar might not be who he claims to be. Not once does he say he's the king. He says that Thaidakar is 'too late' - perhaps because Gavilar's plan has already been pulled through, and he's gone into hiding to pull it off (or because Amaram went to accomplish it).
   
   I admit this part is a bit shaky. Why would the pretend Gavilar have the Voidsphere on him? As well, mentioning his 'brother' while dying would take some amazing acting.
   
   Maybe the Voidsphere is a Lightweaving fabrial? (Unlikely, given we know that it's of a Shard.)
    

The theory has issues, but could have a solid core, I think. I'm giving it a 10% chance of being true, at least until we learn what happened to Tearim. Someone ask Brandon please?

 

Edit: Actually, rereading the bit where Tearim is mentioned as being one of the world's great duelists, I'm pumping this one up to 20%. Tearim being the one who died is incredibly foreshadowed and it would almost have to be a red herring written on purpose if he wasn't the one dead.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Moogle

[The Count]

You know, While I was reading the prologue, I knew that someone was going to suggest this...

 

It certainly is an interesting idea but I think you ay have fallen into Brandon's trap.

 

Asside from the fact that the man who died had Gavilars Shardblade (I guess you could argue that he gave it to Tearim as part of the deception)

 

The main issue I have, is that Sadeas would have to be in on the deception for it to be pulled off. He was with the king (and presumably Tearim) when Szeth attacked and the plan for the decoy was hatched.

 

I find it hard to believe that Sadeas has kept silent on this or all this time. Not to mention the other guards who were 'escorting' Sadeas as the decoy.

 

I think that Gavilar was expecting the attack so was able to act quickly when the screams started. There should have been time for Sadeas and the other guards to put Gavilar in his shardplate before Szeth got there.

 

But you get a +1 for pure gumption!

Edited January 9, 2014 by The Count

[dyring]

Its not so odd that Gavilar would be good thou. consider Dalinars spectacular plate skills, and that he have since Gavilars death started acting like Gavilar. It is not impossible that Gavilar was on the way towards radianthood himself.

 

And even if not, Gavilar had been fighting a bunch of wars in that plate. If he wasent good, he´d likely not be alive. He must have faced a bucnh of other platewearer.

Another hint that Gavilar was good is that Dalinar pre gavilars death considers Gavilar to be the only one who could have been a challenge.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Windrunner
Please watch your language, thanks.

[dionysus]

I don't see enough foreshadowing of this reveal in WoK, so I can't give it much chance. But you are right the quick change out of plate is problematic.

 

Brandon really foreshadows any twists. Of course maybe we will get the foreshadowing in WoR or later books.

[zandi]

 

 

I admit this part is a bit shaky. Why would the pretend Gavilar have the Voidsphere on him? As well, mentioning his 'brother' while dying would take some amazing acting.

 

Exactly. This is why this probably isn't likely....

 

However...Gavilar did give the "voidsphere" to Szeth...so maybe he gave it to the bodyguard first...maybe the bodyguard was on his way to becoming a KR and had a brother and so said that...

 

but nah. I don't think so. Seems pretty unlikely.

[Moogle]

Exactly. This is why this probably isn't likely....

 

However...Gavilar did give the "voidsphere" to Szeth...so maybe he gave it to the bodyguard first...maybe the bodyguard was on his way to becoming a KR and had a brother and so said that...

 

but nah. I don't think so. Seems pretty unlikely.

 

It's also possible there were multiple voidspheres or whatever you want to call them. Gavilar might have gave them out to his closest allies, though I have no idea why.

 

Also of note is that the Parshendi were worried Gavilar was about to do something dangerous. Whatever he did still happened, evidently, so it's possible he faked his own death so he could get some privacy to go do it.

 

Or, I mean, he could have sent Amaram to carry it out. I have developed a soft spot for this theory, though.

 

This theory would also explain the Probable-Herald saying "What we’ve done was wrong." They were working with Gavilar, and starting a war is almost undoubtedly not a very honorable course of action.

 

 

The main issue I have, is that Sadeas would have to be in on the deception for it to be pulled off. He was with the king (and presumably Tearim) when Szeth attacked and the plan for the decoy was hatched.

 

I find it hard to believe that Sadeas has kept silent on this or all this time. Not to mention the other guards who were 'escorting' Sadeas as the decoy.

 

I don't see why this has to be the case. Gavilar could have been Lightweaved immediately after he sent Amaram away and was alone with Tearim.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Moogle

[Cromptj]

I would agree that it seems unlikely. However, I would not put it past Brandon to reveal Gavilar as a surgebinder with the light surge to disguise Tearim. But there is a lot of evidence against this. Gavilar's last words, for example. And as to there being no mention of Tearim, Elkohar is incredibly paranoid and I would think that one of the first things he would do is get rid of the man who let his father die, that being said, Dalinar never thinks or mentions Tearim either.

[zandi]

 

This theory would also explain the Probable-Herald saying "What we’ve done was wrong." They were working with Gavilar, and starting a war is almost undoubtedly not a very honorable course of action.

 

I thought this was in reference to abandoning the oath pact

[Moogle]

I thought this was in reference to abandoning the oath pact

 

A few thousand years later? I'm not so sure they'd bring it up again.

 

Oh, and here's this epigraph quote:

 

“They come from the pit, two dead men, a heart in their hands, and I know that I have seen true glory.”—Kakashah 1173, 13 seconds pre-death. A rickshaw puller. (380) [8-6-5]

 

Perhaps these 'dead men' are people who faked their death? Tenuous connection to Gavilar, here, but interesting.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Moogle

[Aether]

Quick question: Where does the 10-minute time-table come from? Is it calculated from when the screams started, or from when Jasnah and Gavilar split up?

 

I the latter is the case, then I doubt this theory's premise, as the meeting with both her Shadowspren and Liss could have taken up to and maybe even surpassing an hour. We already know that Gavilar had a bad feeling about that night ("Follow the codes tonight, brother"), so he might have gone and change directly into his Shardplate after he went away.

 

And even if the former is the case, if he had started changing immediately, he could easily have had 15 to 20 minutes. Szeth was tasked to make a show, and even if he was rather quick about his killings, he spends what feels like at least a few minutes locked in that room where he prepared that huge rock to slam into the guards. Add everything up, and Gavilar could have had more than just 10 minutes to change.

[zandi]

A thousand years later? I'm not so sure they'd bring it up again.

 

Perhaps - if they knew what Gavilar was about to do and - or if they were aware of the upcoming desolation -or it was a continuing debate over the thousand years. But maybe not. We don't know either way.

 

 

I don't think that this is related

 

 

They come from the pit, two dead men, a heart in their hands, and I know that I have seen true glory.”—Kakashah 1173, 13 seconds pre-death. A rickshaw puller. (380) [8-6-5]

i was thinking it refers to the "dead men" being people who were thought dead or supposed to be dead - like former bridge 4 slaves...or someone else who had been written-off by their opponent.

Edited January 9, 2014 by zandi

[Moogle]

Quick question: Where does the 10-minute time-table come from? Is it calculated from when the screams started, or from when Jasnah and Gavilar split up?

 

Here's the timetable for Jasnah:

• She leaves Gavilar after getting majorly burned, and has her freaky Shadesmar adventure. 4-5 minutes at most, here, given that it took me barely that to read the section and Sanderson was being quite wordy about how Jasnah felt, when she would have had seconds to process what took me 10-15 seconds to read descriptions of.
• Scared fleeing from the feeling of eyes. 1-2 minutes.
• She goes down two floors to the right room. 2-3 minutes again, probably less based on how fast Jasnah made it from two floors down up to see Szeth collapse the balcony.
• Meeting with Liss. 2 minutes tops, unless half the conversation was minute long pauses, which would be silly.
• Jasnah travels through the hallways, listens to the drums cut off abruptly. Hears maybe 30 seconds max of conversation between Probably-Heralds.
• One question and answer from Jasnah to Really-They're-Obviously-Heralds plus a small amount of staring by Darkness. 30 seconds tops.
• Screams start. Jasnah rushes up to Gavilar's rooms see the aftermath of Szeth. She curses that she can't move fast enough up the steps, here, but post-screams she arrives before anyone else, so it can't have been very far away. 2-3 minutes? The exact amount of time doesn't really matter, and Gavilar would have had to have his armor on way before, because Szeth would have been dueling him for a few minutes. Plus, Gavilar would have had travel time of his own.

I could very well be wrong on a lot of this, but this is a medieval palace. It can't be that big, so I think that Jasnah taking over an hour to get to her meeting with Liss is way way too long. Besides, Jasnah was capable of hearing the beating of Parshendi drums two floors down, and it was clear enough for her to drum her fingers to it.

 

You're right, though, Gavilar was suspicious about something happening. He might have had time to change, but time would be tight. And if that was the case, where did Tearim end up? Why was he never mentioned? Why mention he was a master duelist at all? I, personally, thought that Szeth remarking on Gavilar's dueling abilities seemed a bit out of place.

 

Gavilar was acting suspicious with Jasnah. He obviously had plans going on, given how buddy buddy he was with Amaram. I am suspicious, to say the least.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Moogle

[Shardbearer]

I like it. It may not be very likely, but it looks possible.

 

As for his dying words, if Tearim was posing as Gavilar, he could have been instructed to say that. Although probably not, since they probably wouldn't want the ghostbloods to have that sphere.

[Aether]

I like it. It may not be very likely, but it looks possible.

 

As for his dying words, if Tearim was posing as Gavilar, he could have been instructed to say that. Although probably not, since they probably wouldn't want the ghostbloods to have that sphere.

Or maybe Tearim was Gavilar and Dalinar's unknown brother all along, and when asking Szeth to give the sphere to his brother, what he was really asking was for him to give it to Gavilar? 

[Moogle]

Or maybe Tearim was Gavilar and Dalinar's unknown brother all along, and when asking Szeth to give the sphere to his brother, what he was really asking was for him to give it to Gavilar? 

 

Or maybe Tearim wanted his brother to become a Radiant and it was misinterpreted as Gavilar wanting Dalinar to be one.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Moogle

[Natans]

I have a different take on this. Maybe Gavilar "bodyguard" are someone in disguise that are so important to Gavilar that he tried this stunt to protect. 

 

He used the Plate was a excuse to conceal himself in plain sight and stay at Gavilar side.

 

Well, this is my best guess so don't mind disprove it, i don't haveanthing to back it anyway =)

 

But the fact is that as Moogle pointed there is something fishy here.

[18th Shard]

"Gavilar's" death happened in Kholinar. Tearim could be guarding the queen or someone back in Alethkar. Elhokar is at the Shattered Plains in WOK.

Edited January 9, 2014 by 18th Shard

[dyring]

I doubt the shadesmere thing was as short as that. Liss pointed out Jasnah was late. They didnt exaktely have precice watches, would she have nticed if Jasnah was just a few minutes late? More likely a longer time for her to comment on it.

[Moogle]

I doubt the shadesmere thing was as short as that. Liss pointed out Jasnah was late. They didnt exaktely have precice watches, would she have nticed if Jasnah was just a few minutes late? More likely a longer time for her to comment on it.

 

Possible. Where does the length of time in Shadesmar come from, though? Jasnah went there, and immediately began choking on beads, ran out of air, then the trip ended a minute later. You can only hold your breath so long, hence my estimate of 4-5 minutes.

 

Do we know if time spent in Shadesmar is different than time in the real world?

[Kier]

I doubt the shadesmere thing was as short as that. Liss pointed out Jasnah was late. They didnt exaktely have precice watches, would she have nticed if Jasnah was just a few minutes late? More likely a longer time for her to comment on it.

 

doesn't Lirin have a fabrial Clock? or am I pulling lies out of my butt?

[Cromptj]

Jasnah could have been running slightly late before she got sucked into Shadesmar and was then made noticeably late, even without standardised timekeeping. 

[Moogle]

doesn't Lirin have a fabrial Clock? or am I pulling lies out of my butt?

 

You're right, but it was considered to be rare, even unique, in his town. The huge size is also a downside, which means watches aren't a thing (yet).

[Kier]

You're right, but it was considered to be rare, even unique, in his town. The huge size is also a downside, which means watches aren't a thing (yet).

 

Well yeah, I wasn't suggesting a watch. more that if Lirin had a Clock, the palace probably had clocks... and maybe one in the room. However, maybe not. 

[marianmi]

* Sadeas would know that Gavilar is alive. With Gavilar alive and Dalinar becoming more like him, I double he would have tried to get him killed at the tower.

* Why would Gavilar's bodyguard have the sphere? Why would he give it to Szeth, when keeping it hidden would have meant Gavilar would take it back?

* Why would Gavilar's bodyguard want Dalinar to find the words?

* Gavilar would have had to be one of the 2 guards escaping with Sadeas. That means another illusion put in place, and that at least 1 more guard besides Sadeas knows about it.

* Why would Shallash put illusions on people? She's busy with her own things.

* Why would Gavilar's bodyguard hesitate when he saw Jasnah?

 

I give this theory 0.1% chance of being true

[11thorderknight]

Yes, we do know something about time and Shadesmar - we know that it passes incredibly fast there, so that whatever happens takes almost no time in the physical realm. Remember, Jasnah visits Shadesmar every time she soulcasts, and we've seen her soulcast incredibly quickly. To an outside observer, had there been one, Jasnah's adventure would probably have consisted of her standing still for a few moments, then shaking herself off looking frazzled, and going about her way. Chances are, she was already running late for her meeting as she left the party.

 

I will say that the Tearim mention was interesting, for sure, but definitely not conclusive. Remember, Gavilar himself is known as one of the world's great duelists; anyone whom he hired as his chief bodyguard would have had to be really, really good in order to be worth the bother. 

 

Regarding the timeline, even though Jasnah's adventure and the conversation with Liss probably didn't take that long, don't discount how long it would have taken Jasnah to move around the palace. Remember, that palace has been around since Nohadon's time; it's probably HUGE. And wherever she met with Liss wouldn't have been super-close to the main part, since it was basically deserted. Shaken up as she was after her episode, it probably took her a good 15 minutes to walk there and compose herself. 

 

Two other points. One, whoever it was that died, had Gavilar's Blade. Now, it's possible that Gavilar had secretly given it to Tearim, but that would have been a major, major thing for him to do. If he did it right on the spot, it would have been stupid, since he's then without any protection against the coming Shardbearer. If he did it before, it would have been viewed as a huge scandal. Also, for Tearim to be one of the worlds best duelists, he may well have had his own Blade anyway.

 

Last point - At the start of their fight, Szeth knocks "Gavilar" down and runs after the escaping party. He noticed that "Gavilar" seems oddly slow to get up, realizes the "king" is a decoy, and doubles back, at which point Gavilar really starts to fight. If "Gavilar" was really Tearim, he wouldn't have acted light that, he'd have kept fighting for real the entire time.