The Count Posted June 9, 2013 Report Share Posted June 9, 2013 Hi all, Just something I noticed from the reading I wanted to post. Look away now if you do not want to know what happens!! Ok, so The way I heard the actions of the scene was that a 'spren that was not acting like it should' was being hunted by the KR (with help from regulars) and when it was discovered, bonded (or maybe possessed?) the bedrock of the lake and formed a Thunderclast. Now, if these black spren (odiumspren?) can bond with rock to form a known type of voidbringer and we know that the Parshendi change form when bonding with spren.... Source of Jasnah's voidbringers maybe? Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted June 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2013 Sorry sorr sorry!! Meant to post this in the WOR forum. Can one if he mods move it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet Posted June 10, 2013 Report Share Posted June 10, 2013 I am thinking that the Rosharians use the term 'spren' too freely. Most spren we have seen are, apparently, manifestations attracted to a change that has occurred or is occurring (fearspren, flamespren, creationspren, etc.). Other types are clearly agents of change (i.e., Syl, the Spren in the vision from the reading, the spren which bond with greatshells, the cryptics, etc.). I'm not sure where to go with this line of thought, but I think it is important to distinguish between these two characteristic groupings. These agent spren seem to me to be the most likely spren to be splinters of Honor (Syl), Cultivation (greatshell spren), and Odium (thunderclast spren, dare I call them void spren?). The others (mundane spren) could very well be indigenous manifestations on Roshar that existed pre-Shardic influence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isomere Posted June 10, 2013 Report Share Posted June 10, 2013 So amazing to see odium spren in action. Maby the reason shardblades work the way they do is because they were designed to kill spren. The rock in a thunderclast is just a vessel after all, and I'd assume the Spren could just keep making more clasts forever unless killed. @Shardlet. Pretty sure Cryptics are Cultivationspren, but I'm hesitant to call the grey stuff around a dead Greatshell Cultivationspen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet Posted June 10, 2013 Report Share Posted June 10, 2013 @Shardlet. Pretty sure Cryptics are Cultivationspren, but I'm hesitant to call the grey stuff around a dead Greatshell Cultivationspen. I agree that the Cryptics are Cultivationspren. I was not intending the listings and categorizations to be comprehensive. As to whether or not the grey stuff is Cultivationspren, I am not even sure if the grey stuff is spren at all. I think it is described as resembling spren. Probably is spren, I just don't know for sure. What we do know is that spren bond with greatshells and this enables them to become much larger. Exoskeletons are great for a small beastie, but they don't work with large beasties because the shell is unable to support such a large mass. Cultivation (the concept, not the Shard) is fostering growth or change that either wouldn't or likely wouldn't occur naturally. I think this spren relationship is even more clearly of Cultivation than the Cryptics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarontos Posted June 10, 2013 Report Share Posted June 10, 2013 Any chance someone could post a link to this reading? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rags Posted June 10, 2013 Report Share Posted June 10, 2013 https://docs.google.com/document/d/11zLjKT0JSSw0oKZ-nQxEpQLHSVO6v_vZkfOt2gp-LoU/edit You usually find these in the Events, Signings and stakings section of the forum. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarontos Posted June 10, 2013 Report Share Posted June 10, 2013 https://docs.google.com/document/d/11zLjKT0JSSw0oKZ-nQxEpQLHSVO6v_vZkfOt2gp-LoU/edit You usually find these in the Events, Signings and stakings section of the forum. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaa Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 (edited) “A spren that doesn’t act like it should,” the man said. “Keep you eyes open. Once (a name) touches them they’re different, they act strange. From the text I emphasized, it looks like neither the shadow-like, red-eyed spren nor the larger spren that came after it were Odiumspren, but rather spren that were "touched" by whoever (a name) is. I think an Unmade was using Odium-based magic (Voidbinding? Something else?) to make various spren do his/her bidding. Edited June 11, 2013 by skaa 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galavantes Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 From the text I emphasized, it looks like the shadow-like, red-eyed spren isn't an Odiumspren, but rather a spren that was "touched" by whoever (a name) is. I think an Unmade was using Odium-based magic (Voidbinding? Something else?) to make various spren do his/her bidding. That works fine with OP's theory. It could be corrupted spren bonding with parshmen to turn them into voidbringers. Void-form? Makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaa Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 That works fine with OP's theory. It could be corrupted spren bonding with parshmen to turn them into voidbringers. Void-form? Makes sense. Ah, yes, that might be possible. I wonder if this also has something to do with the third magic system mentioned in the Ars Arcanum of WoK: My research suggests that, indeed, there should be another series of abilities that is even more esoteric than the Voidbindings. I hope Dalinar has a vision where he sees an actual Voidbringer in battle. Or better yet, one of the Heralds fighting a Voidbringer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Govika Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 On a sidenote, it sounds like from the conversation above that Honor used to rule the Spiritual Realm, Cultivation rules the cognitive and Odium used to rule the physical. However, the lowest desire the best so there was a war and Honor was cast down, probably splintered or dead (depending on timeframe and whatnot; the point is that Odium and Honor switched places) and started the desolations. That's why they fight for the Tranquiline Halls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuoni Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 Can anyone with better listening comprehension than me make out the (name)? For some reason, I keep hearing it as something like "Shalig-nar" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rags Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 (edited) Can anyone with better listening comprehension than me make out the (name)? For some reason, I keep hearing it as something like "Shalig-nar" rom the text I emphasized, it looks like neither the shadow-like, red-eyed spren nor the larger spren that came after it were Odiumspren, but rather spren that were "touched" by whoever (a name) is. I think an Unmade was using Odium-based magic (Voidbinding? Something else?) to make various spren do his/her bidding. "Shalig-nar" sounds close to "Yelig-nar" (Unmade)?? Skaa reached the conclusion that the 'name' was an Unmade without listening to the audio (that is my assumption). It might make sense. Edited June 11, 2013 by rags 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterAhlstrom Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 Someone is very smart. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurkistan Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 (edited) Someone is very smart. Nice work, Skaa (the user, I'm not calling Peter a serf). Edited June 11, 2013 by Kurkistan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardbearer Posted June 11, 2013 Report Share Posted June 11, 2013 Someone is very smart. Tease... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackmagic3 Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 (edited) This vision is clearly is Selatales, specifically in the purelake and there are armed soldiers which means that this vision was during a desolation because Alethela only armed other nations during desolations in the heraldic epochs. Also Yelig Nar an unmade was there at some point touching some spren so it's safe to assume the unmade only pop up in desolations.Furthermore I am going to suggest that the red glowing radiant is a dustbringer, I am on my phone so no direct quotes, ruby in the ars arcanum is associated with spark as well as the soulcastng property being fire and Kalak remarked that rocks were smoldering and the dustbringers had done their work well. Edit: Changed to reflect Yelig Nar's absence, thanks Peter Edited June 19, 2013 by blackmagic3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterAhlstrom Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 It wasn't Yelig-nar, and Shalig-nar isn't what Brandon said either. Once the preview chapters start being released, this one should be among them, so you can learn the correct spelling then. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eerongal Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 Sorry sorr sorry!! Meant to post this in the WOR forum. Can one if he mods move it? no problem, moved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 Anyone notice the slight continuity error? I'm paraphrasing here, but Dalinar wishes for a description of the Purelake. He shouldn't need on though, he's reminisced on visiting the Purelake in his youth. Unless the specifics of the visit involved his wife somehow? I'm sure this'll be ironed out before the final draft. Anyway, this whole thing is fascinating, I'm terribly excited now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cem Posted June 20, 2013 Report Share Posted June 20, 2013 Huh, good memory Windrunner. Chapter 11 The feast basin had been flooded, turning it into a shallow artificial lake. Circular dining platforms rose like small stone islands in the water. The elaborate miniature landscape had been fabricated by the king’s Soulcasters, who had diverted the water from a nearby stream. It reminds me of Sela Tales, Dalinar thought as he crossed the first bridge. He’d visited that western region of Roshar during his youth. And the Purelake. This is the only place I can find Dalinar thinking about Purelake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted June 20, 2013 Report Share Posted June 20, 2013 The reading is fascinating. One interesting aspect is that the Knight is communicating audibly, whereas the Knights in "Starfall" seemed to communicate silently. Is there something different going on or is it order-based? Kaladin speaks audibly to Syl, but Shallan and presumably Jasnah communicate silently in in tWoK. I've been assuming that Kaladin doesn't just direct his thoughts at Syl because he hasn't tried yet. Maybe the Knight to Knight communication can only be silent for certain orders. If the Stoneward woman is one of them, then order 8 or 10 is the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morsk Posted June 20, 2013 Report Share Posted June 20, 2013 I hadn't considered that Shallan communicates silently. On the other hand, she said "I'm a murderer," in front of Jasnah and Jasnah didn't hear it. Is that your reasoning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet Posted June 20, 2013 Report Share Posted June 20, 2013 Do we have any evidence that Jasnah did not hear her other than that we have not seen Jasnah comment on it yet? I suspect that Shallan and Jasnah will have a significant discussion obout this coment in the WoR and this may show up as a late chronology flashback sequence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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