What Are You Reading, Part 2

[FeatherWriter]

WoK is an awesome re-read. I'm still in the midst of reading it aloud to my sister and it sucks me back in with each chapter I read. We just got through the chapters where Kaladin gives up something very important and Shallan eats some bread that doesn't quite agree with her.

I'm really hoping I can finish reading it to her before I head off to college in August...

[Trizee]

Finished the Foundation trilogy, and I've got to say, it's pretty awesome! I think the only real downside to it is that athough all the characters are really well done, none of them span the whole trilogy, since from the begining to the end about 500 years pass. Otherwise, I would highly reccomend these books.

I'm already almost 50 pages into Frank Herbert's Dune, and it is getting really interesting.

Edited June 27, 2012 by Trizee

[Joe ST]

In the middle of The Quantum Thief, its a pretty good story so far.

[PeterAhlstrom]

I'm reading Leviathan Wakes, still early in the book. Solar system space opera, typical "belters vs. inner planets" plot so far, save for some hints in the prologue, but I'm enjoying it.

[Scattered]

Man, what's with all the hating on American Gods? I have to go with Shivertongue on this one. I picked up American Gods randomly in the bookstore, before I'd ever even heard of Neil Gaiman, and that book made me fall in love with him. It's not nearly as bad as Aethling makes it out to be, that's for sure. Granted it's been a year since I read it the last time, so I'm a little foggy on the details, but the world he described with gods living among us, barely scraping by because so few people believe in them, was so entrancing to me! I'd never read anything like that before, and I got hooked. He has such a unique writing style, too, with sort of a dry sense of humor, and he has a way of making jokes in his prose that just kills me. I'll agree that Anansi Boys was not quite as good, just because one of the main characters was such a jerk, but Neverwhere was amazing, and Good Omens has me in stitches every time I read it, which is frequently. Stardust is completely wonderful too, and the Graveyard Book.

Moving on, I'm just finishing up yet another read-through of the Mistborn trilogy, and then I'm moving on to Princeps, the second Quaeryt book in the Imager Portfolio, by L.E. Modesitt, Jr.

Also, I recently read Pathfinder by Orson Scott Card, and while I loved it, it really seemed to me like he had just re-written his Worthing Saga in a different way. The Lost Gate seemed much more unique, although everybody seems to be writing about Norse mythology these days.

[Aethling]

See, I just don't get people saying American Gods just isn't bad.

A prostitute sucks up a client through her vagina. Very graphic scene.

A wife tells her husband that she died giving his best friend a blowjob and she thought he was a better lover. This comes up multiple times in the book

One character runs around mindraping virgins to have sex with him.

The main character has sex with a cat goddess (admittedly it is in a dream, but it is very graphic and the cat hints that it was not really a dream.)

The main character has sex with his dead wife risen as a zombie.

The gay sex scene has one character stating how much he likes the taste of semen in his mouth and bends over to keep going.

I will admit that the premise of the gods moving is a good one. Indeed, Riordan has sold millions of volumes with essentially the same idea of the ancient gods moving to America.

If you like depictions of prostitution, infidelity, necrophilia, bestiality, rape, and homosexual acts, then, yes, this book is perfect for you. If you don't like reading about any or all of those, stay far, far away.

[Scattered]

Well maybe we can agree to disagree, but at least we know you're not a Game of Thrones fan!

[PeterAhlstrom]

A prostitute sucks up a client through her vagina. Very graphic scene.

That's when I put the book down (years ago), and seeing the rest of what you posted, I'm very happy I never picked it back up.

[Aethling]

Oddly enough, that is true, but it had nothing to do with the above mentioned issues. I just did not find it that interesting or well-written. I do own the first book, but I stopped reading a couple of years ago at around page 60. You could tell there was incest going on, but it had not been explicit before I lost interest in the series.

Not all books are for all readers, but this one won numerous awards with that type of content. I can only think that it was a very slow year. I guess it falls back to adults needing to read a book before they allow children to do so.

Sanderson, Jordan, Eddings, Chima, Sullivan, and Paolini have all shown you do not have to include graphic scenes in fantasy to be consdered a good read. With the exception of Chima, all of them have relationships in their books, but they are not graphic. Sullivan, at least, agrees that it opens up a larger audience for his books. Large audience means more readers. More readers means more sold. More sold means more money for the author and the publishing company.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Aethling

[Yados]

Man, what's with all the hating on American Gods? I have to go with Shivertongue on this one. I picked up American Gods randomly in the bookstore, before I'd ever even heard of Neil Gaiman, and that book made me fall in love with him. It's not nearly as bad as Aethling makes it out to be, that's for sure. Granted it's been a year since I read it the last time, so I'm a little foggy on the details, but the world he described with gods living among us, barely scraping by because so few people believe in them, was so entrancing to me! I'd never read anything like that before, and I got hooked. He has such a unique writing style, too, with sort of a dry sense of humor, and he has a way of making jokes in his prose that just kills me. I'll agree that Anansi Boys was not quite as good, just because one of the main characters was such a jerk, but Neverwhere was amazing, and Good Omens has me in stitches every time I read it, which is frequently. Stardust is completely wonderful too, and the Graveyard Book.

Agreed. I adore American Gods. One of the most layered, satisfying reads I've ever had. I read it at just the right time (14-15) for it to have a huge effect on my tastes, outlook, and writing.

I suppose many of the posters here have problems with content? Which is strange since while the book is certainly dripping with adult themes, I never felt that any of those sequences were fetishized. The prose is immersive but rarely titillating. I suppose it comes down to taste.

I also love Good Omens, Neverwhere, and the Graveyard Book.

Have you ever read The Monarch of the Glen? It's a novella included in Fragile Things that follows up on Shadow in Scotland. A much better sequel than Anansi Boys, sad to say.

But then, we're getting *real* sequels in the coming months.

See, I just don't get people saying American Gods just isn't bad.

A prostitute sucks up a client through her vagina. Very graphic scene.

A wife tells her husband that she died giving his best friend a blowjob and she thought he was a better lover. This comes up multiple times in the book

One character runs around mindraping virgins to have sex with him.

The main character has sex with a cat goddess (admittedly it is in a dream, but it is very graphic and the cat hints that it was not really a dream.)

The main character has sex with his dead wife risen as a zombie.

The gay sex scene has one character stating how much he likes the taste of semen in his mouth and bends over to keep going.

I will admit that the premise of the gods moving is a good one. Indeed, Riordan has sold millions of volumes with essentially the same idea of the ancient gods moving to America.

If you like depictions of prostitution, infidelity, necrophilia, bestiality, rape, and homosexual acts, then, yes, this book is perfect for you. If you don't like reading about any or all of those, stay far, far away.

I think there's a difference between "liking" any of those things and not allowing them to repel us away from the book. We certainly could (and will) disagree about what the value of literature is, but I think we can agree that it transplants into new worlds and allows us to experience things that we don't in our day to day life. Books, especially Fantasy, transport us.

Brandon Sanderson, whose books we all enjoy, brings us to far off worlds and wraps us up in complex, intriguing plots, magics, and struggles that take us to epic highs or crushing lows.

Neil Gaiman brings readers to dark and twisted place with a subtle magic of their own where we find things that may alarm us and things that may sicken us but also things that delight and mystify us with their beauty.

Your own mileage will vary, but I don't think content, especially in a book like American Gods, is enough to classify something as "good" or "bad".

And to be fair, I think the semen was meant to be remarkably tasty/spicy semen because the man he was having sex with was an Ifrit. This wasn't The Steel Remains.

The more you know.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Yados

[Scattered]

You just said everything I couldn't figure out how to say, about how none of those things were fetishized. Certainly they happened, but I didn't feel like it was for shock value, or even like it was overly emphasized. Those certainly weren't the things I remembered about the book, which tells you how much of an impact they had on me.

As for Monarch of the Glen, I know I read it, I just don't remember it very well, since I think I only read it once. But what did you mean about *real* sequels? I'm not sure what you're referring to.

And I agree with you about the Ifrit, that's the impression that I got as well.

[Yados]

You just said everything I couldn't figure out how to say, about how none of those things were fetishized. Certainly they happened, but I didn't feel like it was for shock value, or even like it was overly emphasized. Those certainly weren't the things I remembered about the book, which tells you how much of an impact they had on me.

As for Monarch of the Glen, I know I read it, I just don't remember it very well, since I think I only read it once. But what did you mean about *real* sequels? I'm not sure what you're referring to.

And I agree with you about the Ifrit, that's the impression that I got as well.

I believe that Gaiman is currently working on a one or more direct sequels to American Gods. Shadow decides to return home from Europe in Monarch of the Glen. I don't know anything about the content of the sequels beyond the fact that they feature Shadow, are set in America, and probably have to do with gods.

It's also connected with the HBO adaptation of American Gods that Gaiman is currently helping write and produce. The first season is the first book and I believe the subsequent seasons would be the next books.

[Lady_Yasha]

I was also bored silly by American Gods and stopped about halfway through. Another one I didn't like was Anansi Boys. There is just something about the tone of those books. Nobody is likable, and while I've heard so many people talk about how much they love American Gods, I've sort of noticed that few of them are avid readers. In fact, working at a book store, I've talked to so many people who name that book as the best book they've ever read, only to admit how infrequently they actually read and like a book. Just an observation.

I understand some people don't like American Gods but the whole point of the book was that you weren't supposed to like the characters. They're all depraved in some way because they're a reflection of modern American society, how we can be avaricious and selfish in so many ways that some of us don't even realise we're corrupted by a system that practically screams, "every man for himself."

Shadow is the nihilist, he doesn't care about others (except Sam) and has no ulterior destiny. He's simply a shadow, drifting among the living and is symbolic of the decline of faith in higher powers (the whole theme of the book is infact).

I'm not sure if you've looked into much folklore and ancient religions but the gods of Indo-European heritage weren't exactly known to be saints. The depiction Gaiman gives them is accurately fitting to their actual descriptions from mythological texts.

The book is difficult for some, as it deals with fatalism and nihilism that are not everyday philosophical concepts people encounter, but I thought Gaiman served them well. Speaking as a subscriber of a more obscure philosophy myself, American Gods was a fantastic read.

[Scattered]

I believe that Gaiman is currently working on a one or more direct sequels to American Gods. Shadow decides to return home from Europe in Monarch of the Glen. I don't know anything about the content of the sequels beyond the fact that they feature Shadow, are set in America, and probably have to do with gods.

It's also connected with the HBO adaptation of American Gods that Gaiman is currently helping write and produce. The first season is the first book and I believe the subsequent seasons would be the next books.

Oh nice, I hadn't heard about that!! I'll have to keep an eye out for it. Thanks!

[Yados]

I understand some people don't like American Gods but the whole point of the book was that you weren't supposed to like the characters. They're all depraved in some way because they're a reflection of modern American society, how we can be avaricious and selfish in so many ways that some of us don't even realise we're corrupted by a system that practically screams, "every man for himself."

Shadow is the nihilist, he doesn't care about others (except Sam) and has no ulterior destiny. He's simply a shadow, drifting among the living and is symbolic of the decline of faith in higher powers (the whole theme of the book is infact).

I'm not sure if you've looked into much folklore and ancient religions but the gods of Indo-European heritage weren't exactly known to be saints. The depiction Gaiman gives them is accurately fitting to their actual descriptions from mythological texts.

The book is difficult for some, as it deals with fatalism and nihilism that are not everyday philosophical concepts people encounter, but I thought Gaiman served them well. Speaking as a subscriber of a more obscure philosophy myself, American Gods was a fantastic read.

Did Gaiman ever say that about Shadow? I always assumed Shadow was just symptomatic of the "passive main character syndrome" which is sort of ubiquitous in Gaiman's output. It's one of the few criticisms I have of him. Though it's not a big one. His stories usually fit the sort of "tourist" or "Arthur Dent" lead.

I mean, when you think about it, Neverwhere is basically "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" through a dark fantasy lens. And Sandman created the Vertigo house-style of having a powerful and alien "title character" that you then "see" through a series of smaller stories from the perspective of other, more mundane, "tourist" characters.

I'm not saying that Shadow isn't a nihilist too, though. But then, he's also Baldur. Who knows how that'll play into later books.

[Lady_Yasha]

Did Gaiman ever say that about Shadow? I always assumed Shadow was just symptomatic of the "passive main character syndrome" which is sort of ubiquitous in Gaiman's output. It's one of the few criticisms I have of him. Though it's not a big one. His stories usually fit the sort of "tourist" or "Arthur Dent" lead.

I mean, when you think about it, Neverwhere is basically "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" through a dark fantasy lens. And Sandman created the Vertigo house-style of having a powerful and alien "title character" that you then "see" through a series of smaller stories from the perspective of other, more mundane, "tourist" characters.

I'm not saying that Shadow isn't a nihilist too, though. But then, he's also Baldur. Who knows how that'll play into later books.

Ssh, spoilers

Since this was the first Gaiman book I'd ever read I just went with an interpretation without the knowledge of his writing style. I assumed he was trying to embody modern society through Shadow's perspective; how we all sometimes think and behave because of how the rules dictate our actions, of what our cultures impose on us.

[Trizee]

Hmmmmmm... after reading all these posts of people either ranting about American Gods or defending it with fervor, I am tempted to read it just to see who I agree with. Then again, I'd rather not risk such a controversial book when there are so many books that everyone agrees are good.

Anyway, I've just finished Frank Herbert's Dune, and I've got to say that it was really really really good. It has interesting politics, a cool world (Arrakis=Dune) and one of the more fascinating cultures I've ever read about (the Fremen). Also, I thought the book was really well written. Usually, when writers changes POVs mid scene, I find it disorienting and that it somehow disrupts the flow of the story. But although Herbert is constantly changing the Pov in the middle of a scene, jumping back and forth between characters, I found the change to be smooth and it didn't bother me at all.

I'll now be reading Queen of Sorcery by David Eddings (hopefully I'll enjoy it more than the first Belgariad book, someone here said I should give Eddings another try), and then I'll move on to Asimov's Foundation's Edge, which I'm rather excited about.

Edited July 1, 2012 by Trizee

[Yados]

Hmmmmmm... after reading all these posts of people either ranting about American Gods or defending it with fervor, I am tempted to read it just to see who I agree with. Then again, I'd rather not risk such a controversial book when there are so many books that everyone agrees are good.

Anyway, I've just finished Frank Herbert's Dune, and I've got to say that it was really really really good. It has interesting politics, a cool world (Arrakis=Dune) and one of the more fascinating cultures I've ever read about (the Fremen). Also, I thought the book was really well written. Usually, when writers changes POVs mid scene, I find it disorienting and that it somehow disrupts the flow of the story. But although Herbert is constantly changing the Pov in the middle of a scene, jumping back and forth between characters, I found the change to be smooth and it didn't bother me at all.

I'll now be reading Queen of Sorcery by David Eddings (hopefully I'll enjoy it more than the first Belgariad book, someone here said I should give Eddings another try), and then I'll move on to Asimov's Foundation's Edge, which I'm rather excited about.

You could always try Neverwhere to see if you like Gaiman's style. It's less dark than American Gods but very indicative of his storytelling sensibilities.

Also just a great book.

Edited July 2, 2012 by Yados

[Lady_Yasha]

Hmmmmmm... after reading all these posts of people either ranting about American Gods or defending it with fervor, I am tempted to read it just to see who I agree with. Then again, I'd rather not risk such a controversial book when there are so many books that everyone agrees are good.

Anyway, I've just finished Frank Herbert's Dune, and I've got to say that it was really really really good. It has interesting politics, a cool world (Arrakis=Dune) and one of the more fascinating cultures I've ever read about (the Fremen). Also, I thought the book was really well written. Usually, when writers changes POVs mid scene, I find it disorienting and that it somehow disrupts the flow of the story. But although Herbert is constantly changing the Pov in the middle of a scene, jumping back and forth between characters, I found the change to be smooth and it didn't bother me at all.

I'll now be reading Queen of Sorcery by David Eddings (hopefully I'll enjoy it more than the first Belgariad book, someone here said I should give Eddings another try), and then I'll move on to Asimov's Foundation's Edge, which I'm rather excited about.

I don't see how there's much controversy with American Gods. It's mostly people just getting upset because it's a little different than what they're used to. There's a dead woman in it, sure, but she never has sex. There's a cat that transforms into a woman, ergo there could be bestiality but not really. There's nothing in American Gods that I haven't read before.

[Musicspren]

Okay, unless Aethling is mistaken about the content the American Gods (and, while opinions of the book's merit have, obviously, differed, I haven't seen anyone contradict that those things were in the book), I won't be reading it. I will consider other books by Gaiman that have been mentioned as less graphic.

Also, I'm 50 pages (mass-market paperback) into The Pawn of Prophecy (first of Belgariad) and... Eddings really likes infodumping. And he generally does it with absolutely no subtlety. And I hope the prologue is a myth twisted away from truth, because otherwise it's a particularly obvious sort of Tolkien copy.

[Lady_Yasha]

See, I just don't get people saying American Gods just isn't bad.

A prostitute sucks up a client through her vagina. Very graphic scene.

A wife tells her husband that she died giving his best friend a blowjob and she thought he was a better lover. This comes up multiple times in the book

One character runs around mindraping virgins to have sex with him.

The main character has sex with a cat goddess (admittedly it is in a dream, but it is very graphic and the cat hints that it was not really a dream.)

The main character has sex with his dead wife risen as a zombie.

The gay sex scene has one character stating how much he likes the taste of semen in his mouth and bends over to keep going.

I will admit that the premise of the gods moving is a good one. Indeed, Riordan has sold millions of volumes with essentially the same idea of the ancient gods moving to America.

If you like depictions of prostitution, infidelity, necrophilia, bestiality, rape, and homosexual acts, then, yes, this book is perfect for you. If you don't like reading about any or all of those, stay far, far away.

1) The prostitute scene isn't very graphic. It's more subtlety worded than you're making it out to be. It's more like he merges with her body like they were always one person, a shape-shifter reforming its whole. If that's graphic you should go read a Herbert novel and reconsider the definition.

2) She implies it. Gaiman doesn't actually narrate the scene. How many movies/books/games have you heard someone say "I gave him a blowjob"? And infidelity is a fact of life, it happens, quite commonly.

3) Again, it doesn't describe the scenes, just implies. Any extension of his seduction is just a lecherous god misusing his powers (but this is the god that demanded a human sacrifice in his name by hanging them from a tree).

4) She's in human form.

5) No, he doesn't. Laura never had sex throughout the entire book.

6) I'll give you that one. But that chapter is so redundant to the main plot you can just skip it without any major consequence.

As far as I remember there was no necrophilia, bestiality or rape. Even if there was beyond what has already been mentioned it was so insignificant I can't recall it.

Prostitution only appears in one chapter and infidelity is commonplace in reality. You can't shield people by saying don't read a book because it shows you the ugly, but very much true, side to life. It isn't all rainbows and sunshine; people do horrible things to others and this is what American Gods highlights.

I'm not trying to convince people to read it, because it is a difficult book to confront. But all I'm saying is don't give people the wrong idea about what is a superb literary experience.

@Musicspren: Don't take one person's opinion over a unanimous appraisal for American Gods. Aethling is the only person I've seen that has bashed the book, everyone else is praising it. Don't overlook it just because of the controversy, you'll miss out on some exceptional works of art if you do that.

Edited July 2, 2012 by Lyrebon

[Yados]

1) The prostitute scene isn't very graphic. It's more subtlety worded than you're making it out to be. It's more like he merges with her body like they were always one person, a shape-shifter reforming its whole. If that's graphic you should go read a Herbert novel and reconsider the definition.

2) She implies it. Gaiman doesn't actually narrate the scene. How many movies/books/games have you heard someone say "I gave him a blowjob"? And infidelity is a fact of life, it happens, quite commonly.

3) Again, it doesn't describe the scenes, just implies. Any extension of his seduction is just a lecherous god misusing his powers (but this is the god that demanded a human sacrifice in his name by hanging them from a tree).

4) She's in human form.

5) No, he doesn't. Laura never had sex throughout the entire book.

6) I'll give you that one. But that chapter is so redundant to the main plot you can just skip it without any major consequence.

As far as I remember there was no necrophilia, bestiality or rape. Even if there was beyond what has already been mentioned it was so insignificant I can't recall it.

Prostitution only appears in one chapter and infidelity is commonplace in reality. You can't shield people by saying don't read a book because it shows you the ugly, but very much true, side to life. It isn't all rainbows and sunshine; people do horrible things to others and this is what American Gods highlights.

I'm not trying to convince people to read it, because it is a difficult book to confront. But all I'm saying is don't give people the wrong idea about what is a superb literary experience.

@Musicspren: Don't take one person's opinion over a unanimous appraisal for American Gods. Aethling is the only person I've seen that has bashed the book, everyone else is praising it. Don't overlook it just because of the controversy, you'll miss out on some exceptional works of art if you do that.

Nice run-down.

It's a bit surreal having to defend the works of Neil Gaiman on a fantasy-based forum but you've risen to the occasion.

Let's never speak of the works of NK Jemisin, Joe Abercrombie, Mark Lawrence, Richard Morgan, George R. R. Martin, or even... what? Jim Butcher. I don't think they would hold up to this level of content-based scrutiny.

[Strawberry Eggs]

I just finished The Gnostics by Andrew Phillip Smith. It's a relatively small book that provides an overview of the Gnostic religion, it's beliefs, the various groups, history, and modern revival. It's quite fascinating and enlightening, even if it does go into deep detail. I had heard of Gnosticism in reference to things like the film The Matrix and video games like Xenogears and Xenosaga, but I only knew bits and pieces of what it was all about. This book finally gave me the rundown I was looking for. I may take out a more in-depth look at Gnosticism next, or I may finally start to read The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, but that'll have to wait until I get to the library.

[Trizee]

I finished The Queen of Sorcery by David Eddings, and though it wasn't anything amazing, it was definitely better than the first Belgariad book and I can truthfully say that I enjoyed it and plan to read the rest of the series as well.

I've started reading Foundation's Edge (about 30 pages in), and it seems to be pretty much the same kind of book the original trilogy was- though admittedly, it's a pretty awesome kind of book.

[Musicspren]

Okay, as I've said, it's more about what Aethling said was in American Gods than his opinions. I've seen enough opinions in its favor to not be easily swayed by one against it; it's the facts that sway me. Now, if Aethling's facts (again, not opinions) are wrong, I will readily change my mind. You have said some of them are incorrect, so that does make me somewhat more inclined to read it. Several people have mentioned books that are more graphic than American Gods, but, having not read any of those, I can't use them as reference (they might be good arguments in its favor had I read those books, but I can't apply them personally).

Aethling is the only person I've seen that has bashed the book, everyone else is praising it.

Well...

That's when I put the book down (years ago), and seeing the rest of what you posted, I'm very happy I never picked it back up.

Conclusion: The insoluble Peter Ahlstrom is a kandra.

Don't overlook it just because of the controversy, you'll miss out on some exceptional works of art if you do that.

I won't be dissuaded by controversy - every book will have that, and I believe it is no indication of quality.