Is Marasi a Savant? (TLM)

[SpeakoftheDeval]

Hi guys, not been on the Shard in a while but recently read TLM- and one thing I don't know if I understood was the whole Marasi and the kidnapped allomancers burning away Autonomy's perpendicularity. 

 

It's not really discussed much as there's a lot to move onto, but surely going through that much investiture (enough to use up an entire perpendicularity) would easily make every single one of those people a Savant. Has this been confirmed somewhere? 

Also considering they were using the investiture of autonomy to fuel their allomancy, would this have any weird effects that normal savantism wouldn't have? 

 

[Treamayne]

4 hours ago, SpeakoftheDeval said:

It's not really discussed much as there's a lot to move onto, but surely going through that much investiture (enough to use up an entire perpendicularity) would easily make every single one of those people a Savant.

Doubtful. Savantism is not just a large quantity of investiture - but large amounts of investiture over time. It took Spook a year of flaring Tin every day to cross that threshold. Also, in Marasi's specific case, she wasn't even channeling the power into Cadmium bubbles (TLM Ch 64):

Spoiler

She needed this power gone. Now. Marasi continued to draw in strength, charging her grenades. She had no idea how much they could hold. She’d never had access to this kind of strength before.

<snip>

No you don’t, she thought. Then she dropped both her grenades, and used the same mental command to open the portal to them.

The movement on the other side stopped.

So, while she was channeling the investiture through her Allomancy, she was charging the grenades, not actively "Pulsing." While it's possible that some of the Mistings were "damaged" in trying to use that amount of investiture, it's unlikely that they would cross the threshold into true Savantism. WoBs:

Spoiler

 

Quote

 

Brandon Sanderson

What am I going to change?

BeskarKomrk

Something about savantism and how it works.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, savantism I’m tweaking. It’s not going to mean anything to most people, but if you are studying savantism, watch how it evolves in future books. There is an interlude from a savant viewpoint in Oathbringer, though.

 

Quote

Brandon Sanderson (edited for length)

And so, I don't want to let myself just start making people savants right and left. It needs to be a specific thing. Wax is the troubling one, as I have him burning so much steel that he's well on his way, but isn't showing any side effects. If I'm going to give him savant-like abilities, he needs savant-like consequences.

That's the danger, just falling back on savanthood to do some of the things I want, so often that it undermines the actual point and purpose of them in the cosmere lore.

So if I backpedal, it will be to contain this and point myself the right way, sharply curtailing my desire to make people savants without their savanthood being an intrinsic part of their story and conflict in life. (Like it was for Spook, and is for Soulcasting savants on Roshar.)

Argent

Okay, so - if you do decide to go this route, I see the story implications (larger focus on consequences, less easy to get to the point where a character can be considered a savant). What I am not sure about is the potential for a mechanical change. Would a backpedal on your side cause a conflict with information you've shared with us, in or out of your books? Are you saying that it's possible that Wax won't be considered a savant (if you can't squeeze a good ramifications plot for him that doesn't contradict the apparent lack of consequences so far, for example)?

Brandon Sanderson

I haven't decided on anything yet. It's mostly consequences for the future--just a kind of, "be aware I'm not 100% pleased with how Wax turned out, re: savanthood and Allomantic resonance."

The idea of resonance is that two powers, combined, meld kind of into one single power. This is a manifestation of the way Shards combine. Wax was intended as a savant of the two melded powers. But without consequences in his plot, I'm not confident that I'll continue in the same vein for future books.

 

 

[alder24]

6 hours ago, SpeakoftheDeval said:

Hi guys, not been on the Shard in a while but recently read TLM- and one thing I don't know if I understood was the whole Marasi and the kidnapped allomancers burning away Autonomy's perpendicularity. 

 

It's not really discussed much as there's a lot to move onto, but surely going through that much investiture (enough to use up an entire perpendicularity) would easily make every single one of those people a Savant. Has this been confirmed somewhere? 

Also considering they were using the investiture of autonomy to fuel their allomancy, would this have any weird effects that normal savantism wouldn't have? 

I don't think so. Normally, savantism happens because huge amounts of investiture flows through the soul of Allomancer from Spiritual Realm over long periods of time, which stresses the soul and changes it. But in this case, investiture didn't come from Spiritual Realm, it was right there in Physical Realm instead. Yes, physical investiture like that existed in all 3 realms at the same time, but being primarily in Physical Realm might change things in case of savanthood. So here is the question. Does investiture which comes from Physical Realm instead of Spiritual Realm puts the same stress on the soul?

SA spoilers:

Spoiler

Soulcasters are fueled by physical investiture, Stormlight, and still savanthood is the result of long use of Soulcasters, but also Soulcasters deal a lot with changing spiritual aspects of the object's soul, so the investiture flows from Physical Realm into Spiritual Realm instead. Kind of?

 

[Trusk'our]

4 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I don't think so. Normally, savantism happens because huge amounts of investiture flows through the soul of Allomancer from Spiritual Realm over long periods of time, which stresses the soul and changes it. But in this case, investiture didn't come from Spiritual Realm, it was right there in Physical Realm instead. Yes, physical investiture like that existed in all 3 realms at the same time, but being primarily in Physical Realm might change things in case of savanthood. So here is the question. Does investiture which comes from Physical Realm instead of Spiritual Realm puts the same stress on the soul?

SA spoilers:

  Reveal hidden contents

Soulcasters are fueled by physical investiture, Stormlight, and still savanthood is the result of long use of Soulcasters, but also Soulcasters deal a lot with changing spiritual aspects of the object's soul, so the investiture flows from Physical Realm into Spiritual Realm instead. Kind of?

 

I'm on the same boat as Savantism being a result of a Spiritweb that has been overtaxed over a long period of time; I doubt you could become a Savant through a single short burst of power, no matter how much power was there.

I don't know about the whole PR Investiture Savantism being any different though; if an Allomancer were fueled by another source of Investiture (such as Unkeyed Dor), they'd become a Savant same as they normally would over time. I don't see any proof for this at this time, especially with SA.

I do think that perhaps Allomancers with more innate potential would be safer from the possibility of becoming Savants though. Someone like Rashek wouldn't have their Spiritweb be as taxed as someone who was a run-of-the-mill Misting, even if both tapped the same amount of Unkeyed Dor since his Spiritweb is better equipped to handle those levels of power.

[alder24]

2 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

I do think that perhaps Allomancers with more innate potential would be safer from the possibility of becoming Savants though. Someone like Rashek wouldn't have their Spiritweb be as taxed as someone who was a run-of-the-mill Misting, even if both tapped the same amount of Unkeyed Dor since his Spiritweb is better equipped to handle those levels of power.

That's a good point. Someone with their soul already expanded, like Rashek or Vin, would have a harder time to become a savant. And so it happened that Marasi was holding the Bands of Mourning which might have expanded her soul a bit.