Calderis Posted March 21, 2018 Report Share Posted March 21, 2018 Shallan's brothers have arrived in Urithiru. This in itself, whether she realizes it or not, is going to be a problem (in her opinion) for Shallan. She's kept her secrets. She's hidden her past from everyone. Now though, her past is with her in the flesh, and questions are going to arise naturally. If this isn't enough we have another issue. Her father's anger was not purely a matter of his own psychological break from the strain after his wife's death. Quote Macen Is her [Shallan's] father affected by Odium? Brandon Sanderson Yes. source His anger was not wholly a product of natural brain chemistry. And it wasn't just him. Quote Questioner There's a scene where you can see from the perspective of Nan Balat, Shallan's brother, where he's maiming an insect. It's described as soothing his aches. Is that in any way related to how Kaladin feels depressed and down during the Weeping even in his early childhood? Brandon Sanderson What's happening to Nan Balat is magically enhanced. What's happening to Kaladin is mostly just chemical depression. Be he is really too young to be diagnosed with depression during some of these events, but he's got the seeds in there. So Kaladin is not magically depressed. Kaladin is just legitimatly a person with depression. Nan Balat... What's up with him is... ah... being exaggerated by certain forces moving in on Roshar. (last bit is a bit indistinctive) source Nan Balat's physical relief from causing harm is not natural. His drive and desire to inflict pain is the effect of "certain forces." considering the effect, the fact that his father was influenced by "odium" and that Odium influencing humans is usually via the Unmade, I believe that this is the work of one of them, though which I don't know. Add the multiple times in Shallan's flashbacks that either her, or one of her other brothers think or says that Balat is "slowly becoming Father," and I believe it's reasonable to assume that the same thing has influenced them both. So now you have Balat in Urithiru, presumably distanced from the Unmade that has been effecting him. Some may say that being distanced from that influence will help him... But what happens when he indulges in his routine of inflicting harm, and his pains no longer lessen? I think that the damage to Balat has already been done, and the removal of his source of relief will push him to inflicting greater harm I the hopes that the relief will return. Between the natural questions that will arise from having her family present, and the instability that Balat may bring to the table, I think Shallan's past may stay hidden for a much shorter time than she wishes. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelly Posted March 21, 2018 Report Share Posted March 21, 2018 Hopefully said Unmade has not followed the brothers to Urithiru. Perhaps Dai-gontharis? I think she's going to have serious struggle between lies and truths, doubly so because of her oaths. But I also think this is going to help her stabilize her personalities. She can't make up another personality to handle this situation. It is all her own actions and responsibilities. Very curious about Adolin's reaction. He confessed his murder to Shallan. I think he'll be sympathetic. And possibly uncomfortable that they are newlywed murderers. I can see things coming to a head all at the same time: Shallan's history become public right as Nan Balat's sanity tips and he does something violent. Taravangian takes advantage of the whole thing (if he didn't plan it) to discredit the Radiants. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insert_anagram_here Posted March 21, 2018 Report Share Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) How about Chemoarish? It seems the Bavland mine villages swear in Dustmother's name and we know that the Davars had investments in mining right? Also: Quote Chemoarish, the Dustmother, has some of the most varied lore surrounding her. The wealth of it makes sorting lies from truths extremely difficult. I do believe she is not the Nightwatcher, contrary to what some stories claim. I find it particularly odd how sorting out the correct lore is phrased. Edited March 21, 2018 by insert_anagram_here 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronBars Posted March 21, 2018 Report Share Posted March 21, 2018 Doesn't is say somewhere that balat stopped doing that ? Because of the girl hes engaged to or something ? Sorry dont have my book to hand for reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vissy Posted March 21, 2018 Report Share Posted March 21, 2018 Nan Balat is interesting. I'd noticed it during my re-read of WoK. I didn't know that his psycho-behaviour was magically induced - that explains a lot! Wouldn't Balat be also free of the pain, though, now that he isn't in contact with whatever caused him to feel it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted March 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, IronBars said: Doesn't is say somewhere that balat stopped doing that ? Because of the girl hes engaged to or something ? Sorry dont have my book to hand for reference Shallan thinks that he did. The interlude from his perspective shows he's continued it though. It's just less frequent. Edit: @Vissy I guess that depends on if the aches are magically induced as well. Edited March 21, 2018 by Calderis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angsos Posted March 21, 2018 Report Share Posted March 21, 2018 Shallan's murders were self-defense or something since her father was eventually going to kill someone. Adolin was just hatred, incidentally, it's interesting to see Dalinar kind of became was Sadeas wanted and then they fell apart. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted March 21, 2018 Report Share Posted March 21, 2018 Sadeas wanted Dalinar to be the ruthless, uncaring warlord he was in his youth. The current Dalinar isn't anything like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vissy Posted March 21, 2018 Report Share Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Angsos said: Shallan's murders were self-defense or something since her father was eventually going to kill someone. Adolin was just hatred, incidentally, it's interesting to see Dalinar kind of became was Sadeas wanted and then they fell apart. I want to quickly touch on the Adolin hatred thing. I don't think he murdered Sadeas out of anger alone. I think there was a lot of built-up resentment over the years, starting from Rathalas. Remember that Adolin thinks Sadeas is responsible for the burning and therefore his mother's death. To get back to Nan Balat, though, I wonder if he'll get along with Adolin. If his aches weren't magic-induced, and what @Calderis speculated comes true - that Balat would feel compelled to dip ever more into excess when he finds out that his old habits don't soothe his pains anymore - I wonder if he'll start to hurt people at some point. That kind of unstability is a very scary prospect to contemplate. Even if he likes Adolin, though, his "odd" (to me they read more like psychotic) habits of ripping wings off insects and torturing crabs and so on would probably spook Adolin. And now I can't wait to read that interaction, dammit. Edited March 21, 2018 by Vissy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine Posted March 21, 2018 Report Share Posted March 21, 2018 4 hours ago, Calderis said: Nan Balat's physical relief from causing harm is not natural. His drive and desire to inflict pain is the effect of "certain forces." considering the effect, the fact that his father was influenced by "odium" and that Odium influencing humans is usually via the Unmade, I believe that this is the work of one of them, though which I don't know. Add the multiple times in Shallan's flashbacks that either her, or one of her other brothers think or says that Balat is "slowly becoming Father," and I believe it's reasonable to assume that the same thing has influenced them both. Lin Davar and Nan-Balat's application of violence seems to have one point of commonality, they both direct their violence towards entities weaker than themselves. If this is truly Chemoarish, this could be a small glimpse into the Dustmother's means of affecting people. A net increase in cruelty, specifically targeting the weak. Another thing to think about is that Luesh, Lin's steward was a member of the Ghostbloods. Mraize has given Shallan a mission to bring Sja-Anat onto the Ghostblood's team. This might just be happenstance, or this organization that views morality as an axis that doesn't concern them could have found some way to control one of the Unmade earlier. Total speculation, but interesting to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yezrien Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 There’s another possibility that’s worth mentioning, even if it’s not the most interesting. What does it usually mean when a man on Roshar is driven to irrational violence by magic? Nergaoul. Maybe Balat and his father were suffering from a very minor form of the Thrill. Maybe he’ll be cured now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteLeeopard Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 Shallan's brothers don't know all of her past (her mother), but I bet they will sooner rather than later spill ther guts on her killing her father. At the same time her brothers (specially Balat) may be resentful that she ended up married to a highprince, specially when added to her status as a KR. They all loved her, but when your little sister unexpectedly ends up one of the most important people in Roshar despite been 18 years old, some bitterness may flare up. Whatever happens in book 4 with Shallan's brothers I doubt it will be pleasant. Balat will likely be a problem, and he may come to a head with the Kholins eventually if he continues on the path he was on. Perhaps the end of the world and coming to Urithiru stops him from what he was doing, but he always seemed a problem to me. Jushu will probably also cause issues with his gambling addiction. Wikim is the only one that might add something good, maybe befriending Renarin or even attracting a spren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vissy Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 Wikim and Renarin friendship could be very nice! That ending set up so many possibilities with the arrival of Shallan's brothers alone, it's exciting. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyrann Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 12 hours ago, Calderis said: Shallan thinks that he did. The interlude from his perspective shows he's continued it though. It's just less frequent. Edit: @Vissy I guess that depends on if the aches are magically induced as well. That makes me think of (wheel of time spoilers) Spoiler when Aran'gar gives Egwene headaches and makes the pain 'disappear' by massaging her. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfphelps Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 (edited) 15 hours ago, Vissy said: I want to quickly touch on the Adolin hatred thing. I don't think he murdered Sadeas out of anger alone. I think there was a lot of built-up resentment over the years, starting from Rathalas. Remember that Adolin thinks Sadeas is responsible for the burning and therefore his mother's death. To get back to Nan Balat, though, I wonder if he'll get along with Adolin. If his aches weren't magic-induced, and what @Calderis speculated comes true - that Balat would feel compelled to dip ever more into excess when he finds out that his old habits don't soothe his pains anymore - I wonder if he'll start to hurt people at some point. That kind of unstability is a very scary prospect to contemplate. Even if he likes Adolin, though, his "odd" (to me they read more like psychotic) habits of ripping wings off insects and torturing crabs and so on would probably spook Adolin. And now I can't wait to read that interaction, dammit. With Adolin it was also that Sadeas had betrayed him and his family multiple times (battle of the tower, the dueling fiasco, etc.) and said he would do so again. Before Adolin attacked him he literally told him that there was no way he and Dalinar could both survive, and that he intended to kill Dalinar to take over the kingdom. Adolin likely thought he was protecting the entire Kholin family and kingdom by dispatching Sadeas. Regarding the Rathalas situation, wasn't history re-written such that Evi's death was due to trickery from Rathalas, and not the fault of Dalinar OR Sadeas? Do we actually know what Adolin thinks of why/how his mother died yet? Edited March 22, 2018 by cfphelps 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted March 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 1 hour ago, cfphelps said: Regarding the Rathalas situation, wasn't history re-written such that Evi's death was due to trickery from Rathalas, and not the fault of Dalinar OR Sadeas? Do we actually know what Adolin thinks of why/how his mother died yet? Yes. Adolin, as well as anyone who only knows of the event through official channels, believes that Evi died due to the actions of the people who revolted. She was "kidnapped and killed" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteLeeopard Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 53 minutes ago, Calderis said: Yes. Adolin, as well as anyone who only knows of the event through official channels, believes that Evi died due to the actions of the people who revolted. She was "kidnapped and killed" Was it "kidnapped and killed" or "killed by asassins"? In any case Adolin thinks Sadeas took advantage of Dalinar's injuries and grief to then burn Rathalas to the ground. The mess which Shallans brothers will make in Urithiru is something I'm really looking forward to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyrann Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 1 hour ago, WhiteLeeopard said: The mess which Shallans brothers will make in Urithiru is something I'm really looking forward to. And then you remember there will be a one year time gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draigon Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 Urithiru is going to be a slow pressure cooker over the next year of in-world time. It will be interesting to see what comes of all the ingredients that have been tossed into the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelly Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 More awkward situations: Unknown to Shallan, Jushu (think he was the gambler brother) starts hanging out drinking and gambling with Gaz n Crew (who need a group name like Bridge 4). Shallan shows up as Veil and decides to stay incognito while observing him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jofwu Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 What part of Shallan's past do you think will come out? I don't see how her brothers to be any less private about their family history than Shallan does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angsos Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 They might be private but loose lips sink ships. I could see one of them getting drunk and talking too much. People are overlooking something though; I think the gambler will come to a head before Balat, assuming Jushu is still doing it. I could see Shallan trying to 'help' her brother by getting him spheres she says are for 'radiant practice.' They're not enough and Jushu starts stealing and gets caught. My guess is if it happens it will be the Kholins who won't kill him out of hand because the GBs most certainly would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteLeeopard Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 A secret can only be kept when one person knows it and they don't say it to a soul. As soon as you add 1 more person to the mix its not a secret any more, much less 3 more. Kaladin knew it, but he is so close lipped he was safe enough. Shallan's brothers don't seem the kind capable of having the nerves or self-control to not let it slip or tell it to someone to get out of a tough situation. Killing her father won't be too serious, considering he had just killed his wife and crippled his oldest living son. However it will show people that Shallan is not the wide-eyed innocent everyone took her for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted March 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said: A secret can only be kept when one person knows it and they don't say it to a soul. As soon as you add 1 more person to the mix its not a secret any more, much less 3 more. Kaladin knew it, but he is so close lipped he was safe enough. Shallan's brothers don't seem the kind capable of having the nerves or self-control to not let it slip or tell it to someone to get out of a tough situation. Killing her father won't be too serious, considering he had just killed his wife and crippled his oldest living son. However it will show people that Shallan is not the wide-eyed innocent everyone took her for. Exactly my thoughts. I think the only reason they kept his death a secret to begin with was their relative isolation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelly Posted March 22, 2018 Report Share Posted March 22, 2018 I think Jasnah would respect her for it. Speaking of killing family members, let's not forget that Jasnah was seconds away from killing Renarin. Get yourself together Kholins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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