22 posts in this topic

My questions on the matter. If I don't get clear answers I plan on trying to ask Brandon at the Oathbringer signing. Here goes:

Is it feasible/possible for Elantrians to make more giant Aon Raos across Sel? Wear Clothing with Aon Rao? Build boats, or later space craft, with Aon Rao? You get the point. 

We saw in Elantris that Dilaf was able to break the Aon Edo that Raden made. Dilaf broke this with a touch. Could Dilaf, or another Dakhor (spelling?) monk, travel to Elantris and break it? Or would that require an insane amount of Investiture/sacrifices?

Could Aon Rao enhance the power of other Investitures and magic systems? i.e. if an Allomancer came to Elantris, would it enhance their power?

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All the magic on Sel is restricted by region. Remember how Raoden's aons lost their potency when he went to Teod? I think we can assume a giant Rao would suffer the same problem. Elantris is not a power source that you can replicate; it's a conduit to the Dor (the real power source), which appears to be stationary in the cognitive realm.

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I always thought the reason hey lost their potency was because they were farther away from the huge power enhancer. 

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27 minutes ago, podman36 said:

I always thought the reason hey lost their potency was because they were farther away from the huge power enhancer. 

If that was the case, the Elantrians would probably have built Raos all over the place. The power is tied to the land itself, which is why Aons are maps, and why different regions have different magic systems.

I don't think Elantris can be called a "power enhancer." It gives Elantrians the ability to access the Dor, but that ability doesn't seem to have power levels. Either you can use AonDor or you can't. Power level is entirely geographic. (Elantris might be built on the most powerful spot, perhaps because of the shardpool.)

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1 minute ago, Belzedar said:

It gives Elantrians the ability to access the Dor, but that ability doesn't seem to have power levels.

If this was the case, why is Raoden still able to create functional (if only barely) Aons when Elantris is 'down' so to speak.

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25 minutes ago, Belzedar said:

I don't think Elantris can be called a "power enhancer."

From the annotations to Elantris [emphasis mine]:

Quote

Elantris is like a massive power conduit. It focuses the Dor, strengthening its power (or, rather, the power of the Aons to release it) in Arelon. This far away from Elantris, however, the Aons are about as powerful as they were before Raoden fixed Elantris.

If you consider it, it makes logical sense that the Aons would be tied to ELANTRIS and Arelon, yet would work without them. The Aons had to exist before Elantris–otherwise, the original Elantrians wouldn’t have known the shape to make the city. Their study of AonDor taught them a method for amplifying Aon power.

The city acts as a massive power boost to any Elantrians drawing Aons near it.

Edit: found this particular quote by first searching the Coppermind for Elantris and then following the footnote. 

Edited by CaptainRyan
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I guess I misread that. Thanks for finding that quote!

So why didn't they build more than one?

Edited by Belzedar
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Maybe it is very difficult to construct/program (as in, there's more to it than just building an Aon-Rao shaped structure). But it is more possible for them to build a series of smaller Elantris-structures that act as regional amplifiers, and connect to Elantris, kind of like an electrical generator and conduit system. It would also provide them with set teleportation areas and formulas, as an added bonus.

Edited by SilverTiger
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I don't mean an exact replica of Elantris, but building regional amplifiers seems possible. Clothing, amulets, etc. are a bit more unlikely, but who knows?

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1 minute ago, podman36 said:

so you guys agree that this would be possible?

I think it is possible to build Elantris (the city) style enhancers in other parts of the world but, the question is, how effective would they be? With Sel's magic being geographically limited, building another Elantris thousands of miles away might not provide the same level of enhancement. Aons are weaker the farther they get from Arelon and I doubt the Aon Rao is any exception. Building an enhancer far from Arelon might just end up only providing a very tiny enhancement. 

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@CaptainRyan, I kind of agree with you. I was thinking more along the lines of building regional amplifiers in Arelon, Duladel, and Teod. Also as embassy buildings. At the very least, though, it would allow for precise Aon-teleportation by providing known measurements for the Aon's modifiers. Which does count for something, at the very least.

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3 hours ago, Belzedar said:

So why didn't they build more than one?

I don't think it's as simple as building an Aon Rao shaped city with Aon Ela shaped streets.

Quote

28:10
DK: OK, I’ve got another question about AonDor.
BS: OK.
DK: So it’s a lot like functional programing.

BS: Yes.
DK: And my question is: could you write higher level language of programming with that.
BS: Yes.

DK: Ohhh...
BS: Mhhm but only an Elantrian could make it like work, right? Not compile but could execute the function. They would have to type it out and execute. Like if you were just, even if you just gave it to them, they would have to retype it and go, but yes, you could.
DK: Couldn’t you like, is there an Aon for define, definition? So like you could go and define some really long sequence of Aons and then assign it to simple shape.
BS: Right.

DK: Then draw the simple and would it work?
BS: Right right, object oriented. This is realistically plausible, you would have to write all this stuff and call the function and have this constantly in the state of Kinetic Investiture, but that is reasonable. I mean it’s not so far off from things they actually did with much fewer, much fewer lines of code if you wish in the past. It’s what Elantris itself was, so yes.

DK: Pretty awesome.

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2 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

I don't think it's as simple as building an Aon Rao shaped city with Aon Ela shaped streets.

Agree, for example we know there is (visible) at least another Aon in the Elantris' Structure (the Ela Aon) but surelly there will be a good number of modifier and other Aons at work to generate "Elantris"

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If the magic system is based on geographic location, does that mean anyorder for elantrians to access the dor in Teod, they would have to buuild a aon shaped after a location in Teod.

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Well I think the reason they didn't make another elantris in teod which would have significantly enhanced the power of elantrians there is just that there is no need and people tend not to want to spend extra effort on things that aren't absolutely necessary- anything the teoish people wanted from a full power elantrian they could just use their famed armada to pop down and get it instead of making new teoish elantrians full power instantly. Actually the teoish would probably make the elantrians make a second elantris in teod if they knew how it worked but they just assume that it's that one ancient city and that's it 

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The power is most definitely geographic on Sel.  Which may mean there are certain thin spots, perpendicularities where they are able to tap into the cognitive and spiritual realms.  It makes sense for Elantris since the lake is a perpendicularity. It seems like there must be others in the Jindo Region, the Rose Empire, the Fjorden regions, etc.

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Noteworthy is that Elantrians suffer from "distance decay", be it from Arelon OR Elantris, but the Dahkor monks somehow have found a way around. Dilaf, far away from Fjorden, can still disrupt AonDor both in Arelon and Teod (O.K., in both cases it is not AonDor "on Rao-Steorids"), and they can teleport about fifty man from Arelon to Teod.

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34 minutes ago, Alfa said:

Noteworthy is that Elantrians suffer from "distance decay", be it from Arelon OR Elantris, but the Dahkor monks somehow have found a way around. Dilaf, far away from Fjorden, can still disrupt AonDor both in Arelon and Teod (O.K., in both cases it is not AonDor "on Rao-Steorids"), and they can teleport about fifty man from Arelon to Teod.

They still suffer from it, just not as much because they don't have a power amplifier like Elantris.

Also, they use human sacrifice to increase their power.

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19 hours ago, RShara said:

They still suffer from it, just not as much because they don't have a power amplifier like Elantris.

Also, they use human sacrifice to increase their power.

I'm not quite sure they're suffering from it - one human (maybe one Dahkor Monk) sacrifice is apparently a constant for teleportation, be it for about a kilometer in Fjorden for one person or for a mass teleportation Arelon-Teod. If the power decay would be as strong as for Elantrians, they would have needed somehting like "more Human Resources" or a short-step-by-short-step teleportation (In Teod, Raoden teleports for about 50 Meters when he planned a several-hundred-kilometer jump).

An alternative interpretation is that Dahkor Powers in Fjorden are capital-t Terryfying, remarkably stronger than even those of an Elantrian.

Also, there is no confirmation (that I know of) that Fjorden does not have a power amplifier, it just may be less flashy than Elantris.

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5 hours ago, Alfa said:

I'm not quite sure they're suffering from it - one human (maybe one Dahkor Monk) sacrifice is apparently a constant for teleportation, be it for about a kilometer in Fjorden for one person or for a mass teleportation Arelon-Teod. If the power decay would be as strong as for Elantrians, they would have needed somehting like "more Human Resources" or a short-step-by-short-step teleportation (In Teod, Raoden teleports for about 50 Meters when he planned a several-hundred-kilometer jump).

An alternative interpretation is that Dahkor Powers in Fjorden are capital-t Terryfying, remarkably stronger than even those of an Elantrian.

Also, there is no confirmation (that I know of) that Fjorden does not have a power amplifier, it just may be less flashy than Elantris.

 

Quote

Brightlord Maelstrom

When a Dakhor monk leaves his homeland do his bones still give him his abilities? Is it only the creation that's location-dependent or is it also the ability that's location-dependent?

Brandon Sanderson

The further you get away, the weaker the power the bones will give you will get. It's way better than Elantris at bringing the power with you. That's where it is in the notes right now, I have not written the second book, I could totally change that.

source
Quote

Questioner

Do the monks of Dakhor and Forging suffer from the same weakness of distance as the Elantrian magic?

Brandon Sanderson

Do the monks of Dakhor and Forging suffer from the same [weakness of] distance as the Elantrian magic? Yes they do. It's a little less pronounced in the monks because of certain things they are doing. It is very pronounced for Forging.

source

 

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Posted (edited)

According to this, they found a way around, though not in the sense I meant it.

Edited by Alfa
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