Windrunner 4th Ideal: A (probably not) new thought

[Elsecaller_17.5 he/him]

Arguments that the ideal will be this or that tend to be based on the gem archive (the aren't I supposed to protect people one) and Kaladins own inability to swear the oath. I'd like to add one more reference as well as another interpretation. 

(Here I'll make an aside to say I'm sure I'm not the first to come up with this)

In OB at the end of Kaladins travel with the Singers he flees with the incoming highstorm. Before he does so he rescues the human captives that he can, bringing them to shelter. Syl tells him "you can't save them all." 

I believe this suggests a general 4th ideal of "I will protect those that need it most."

(For anyone wondering I still think Kaladin's personal oath will tie in self forgiveness)

[Quantus he/him]

Im not sure I like that option, just because (to me) it sounds so much more subjective than the others.  Who would be deciding who "needs it most"?  The base "Those that Cannot protect themselves" is a lot more objective (flaws in prediction aside) and the 3rd just reasserted that the Windrunner would still do it even if they didnt personally want to.  I agree that a logical next step is somehow going to address some sort of triage mentality, the idea that they cannot save everyone, but "Those that need it the most" feels like it's still missing something....

  EDIT: to be clear, this is purely my opinion on the themes, but your theory is a good one and has every possibility of proving correct.  

Edited January 27, 2020 by Quantus

[EddyJ he/him]

I think the generally proposed theory is along those lines - that the oath may be "I will accept that I can't save everyone." It's an internal goal - coming to terms with your own limitations, which is a really powerful character moment for Kaladin.

[Halyo_Alex he/him]

6 minutes ago, EddyJ said:

I think the generally proposed theory is along those lines - that the oath may be "I will accept that I can't save everyone." It's an internal goal - coming to terms with your own limitations, which is a really powerful character moment for Kaladin.

I disagree slightly with that, instead I think it will be more like "I accept that I don't need to protect everyone." It's an acknowledgement that some people are capable of protecting themselves, so that you can focus on protecting the people who do need it.

[EddyJ he/him]

2 hours ago, Halyo_Alex said:

I disagree slightly with that, instead I think it will be more like "I accept that I don't need to protect everyone." It's an acknowledgement that some people are capable of protecting themselves, so that you can focus on protecting the people who do need it.

Well said! I meant to use the word protect, and I think your wording is superior.

[Karger he/him]

5 hours ago, Halyo_Alex said:

I disagree slightly with that, instead I think it will be more like "I accept that I don't need to protect everyone." It's an acknowledgement that some people are capable of protecting themselves, so that you can focus on protecting the people who do need it.

However from what we have seen all ideals have an element of difficulty to them.  Does any reasonable person really feel the need to protect absolutely everyone?  Even among Windrunners I do not think that Teft for example would have much trouble letting someone else be if they had demonstrated capacity to do their job without interference.  Also check this one out.

 

Edited January 28, 2020 by Karger

[+Oltux72 he/him]

8 hours ago, Halyo_Alex said:

I disagree slightly with that, instead I think it will be more like "I accept that I don't need to protect everyone." It's an acknowledgement that some people are capable of protecting themselves, so that you can focus on protecting the people who do need it.

"I will protect those who cannot protect themselves"

You are basically restating the second ideal. And it is supposed to be about not wanting to protect people, not concentrating your efforts.

[Honorless he/him]

Prioritization and triage are important skills in the field, if it is the next Ideal however, it will probably be phrased differently, as has already been noted, "I will protect those that need it most" is too similar to "I will protect those who cannot protect themselves"

[Aon Tia she/her]

12 hours ago, EddyJ said:

 that the oath may be "I will accept that I can't save everyone." It's an internal goal - coming to terms with your own limitations, which is a really powerful character moment for Kaladin.

I think it will make a great general oath for windrunners

12 hours ago, Halyo_Alex said:

 "I accept that I don't need to protect everyone." It's an acknowledgement that some people are capable of protecting themselves, so that you can focus on protecting the people who do need it.

And this could have been the 4th windrunner oath tailored for Kaladin, but then if it were so, i think he could have already vowed this oath at the end of OB. 

I also agree with @Oltux72 and @Honorless it is basically what the 2nd oath says already!