[OB] Regarding Numuhukumakiaki'aialunamor

[Stark he/him]

The whole reason he ended up in Bridge four was that a member of his family challenged Sadeas to earn shards and lost.  As a result, they came to serve Sadeas, and Rock made some interesting dietary choices that left him in Bridge four.  Simultaneously sad, horrifying and hilarious.  Fine.

 

Ownership of shards is transferred by heritance, or by right of conquest, correct?  

 

Well Rock, proto-Radiant that cannot handle the touch of shards though he may be, killed Sadeas Amaram.  Oathbringer went back to Dalinar, cool.  But Heleran's plate and blade, by right of conquest, should belong to Rock now.  The first Horneater shards.  Mission accomplished, sort of.

 

So what is going to happen there, in the year gap?  This takes tertiary interest behind everything else that could happen in that year, like the fallout from Rock taking violent, life ending action, despite being strongly adverse to it, and the implication that he is higher in the Horneater heirarchy than he lets on, but still.  Interesting to think on, no?

 

So what will happen in the next year with the Horneater peaks, and the self-loathing proto-Radiant Horneater King who wants nothing more from life than to stay with friends and family and make sure they are well fed?

[supersmith]

1 hour ago, Stark said:

The whole reason he ended up in Bridge four was that a member of his family challenged Sadeas to earn shards and lost.  As a result, they came to serve Sadeas, and Rock made some interesting dietary choices that left him in Bridge four.  Simultaneously sad, horrifying and hilarious.  Fine.

 

Ownership of shards is transferred by heritance, or by right of conquest, correct?  

 

Well Rock, proto-Radiant that cannot handle the touch of shards though he may be, killed Sadeas Amaram.  Oathbringer went back to Dalinar, cool.  But Heleran's plate and blade, by right of conquest, should belong to Rock now.  The first Horneater shards.  Mission accomplished, sort of.

 

So what is going to happen there, in the year gap?  This takes tertiary interest behind everything else that could happen in that year, like the fallout from Rock taking violent, life ending action, despite being strongly adverse to it, and the implication that he is higher in the Horneater hierarchy than he lets on, but still.  Interesting to think on, no?

 

So what will happen in the next year with the Horneater peaks, and the self-loathing proto-Radiant Horneater King who wants nothing more from life than to stay with friends and family and make sure they are well fed?

Wait there's a year gap between books 3 and 4? That's so dumb. So much stuff is going to happen off screen . Well anyway I think rock is going to become king, maybe have a some problems but get over them pretty quick, then get the horneaters to join Dalinar's coalition. 1 almost country down, like 24 to go.

[StrikerEZ he/him]

1 hour ago, supersmith said:

Wait there's a year gap between books 3 and 4? That's so dumb. So much stuff is going to happen off screen . Well anyway I think rock is going to become king, maybe have a some problems but get over them pretty quick, then get the horneaters to join Dalinar's coalition. 1 almost country down, like 24 to go.

Here's a WoB that can shed some light on the situation

Spoiler

Mrrobot112

Eshonai is flashback character [for Stormlight Four], but she is dead in the present. So...who will be main protagonists in the main timeline? Hope for Dalinar, Shallan and Kaladin will be as important as they were in first three books)

Brandon Sanderson

Eshonai will still be the flashback character, and Venli will take a larger role to provide counterpart past/present. But, as always, you will find a focus on all five protagonists from this sequence. (I view them as Dalinar, Kaladin, Shallan, Eshonai/Venli, Szeth.)

Mrrobot112

I heard it would be one year time gap(in world) between books 3 and 4, which make me think about structure of the book.Does it mean, something important could happen during this year, and then it will be explained in some form(maybe another set of flashbacks)?If so, it's hard for me to visualise the book structure: main timeline, Eshonai's flashbaks and another set of flashbacks for past year?Seems like a mess. Or it will be like Mistborn era 1 time gaps between each book?Main narrative just continues without getting stuck with one-year break, and nothing important happens off-screen. It will be nice to get some qualification from you, if possible.Cause now I'm a bit confused.

Brandon Sanderson

Right now, I've got it like Mistborn--we're checking back in a year, as I need to give some things time to progress in world. We'll see when I actually write it, though.

Mrrobot112

Thanks! But please, don't do things like Alien 3-movie, if you know what I mean. It's when they did a time gap between two movies and at the beginning of the new movie they told you that your favorite character died during the time gap, deal with it. This is the worst thing ever and a reason I'm always a bit skeptical about time gaps in fiction. Just hate when things like that happen off-screen.Just don't do it with your books, please.At least can you promise you wouldn't?And what do you think about this trope in general?

Brandon Sanderson

I actually want to write an essay about that very trope (I call it the Newt Principle.) You might see it on my website at some point.

Things will happen during the gap, I'm afraid. You might like it, you might not, but I do plan some of the flashbacks in the second half to help cover this time--so you'll see it eventually. If it helps, I'm pretty sure I understand the dangers of the Newt Principle, and how to not fall into that trap.

source

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/315-general-reddit-2018/#e8979

[teknopathetic he/him]

I wonder if the Sibling went to the Horneater peeks and made that region more livable? Everything The Spren did for the Peaks sounds like what was being done in The Tower. I know we think the Sibilng retreated into The Tower, but it really makes more sense that the Sibling would retreat somewhere else in the mountains to rest and recover.

The Unkalaki were at the brink of extinction due to their belligerent nature at that time. They had a leader called tana'kai, who talked to the three most powerful gods on Roshar and asked them for shelter. They were the gods of the trees (Nightwatcher?), the waters (Stormfather?) and the mountains (Sibling?) respectively. Both the god of the trees and the god of the waters refuse to give them shelter since they could not guarantee the safety of the Unkalaki. The god of the mountains (Sibling?) does not outright decline the request but tells the tana'kai that his slopes are places only for spirits and they could not sustain life. The tana'kai solves the dilemma by asking the god of the waters to place lakes on the peaks of the mountains, the mountain god to heat them with his thermal energy from the deeps of the earth and the god of the forests to bring edible plants to the now habitable areas on the mountain peaks. The gods were pleased with this solution and the Horneaters moved to the peaks.^[11]

Considering that Rock might have a connection to The Sibling, it would be interesting for Rock to bond the Sibling and take a non-combat role as the 2nd bondsmith. Rock's desire to bring together Bridge 4 by providing food and shelter seems veeeery Siblingy to me. 

Edited April 27, 2018 by teknopathetic

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine he/him]

Nice theory @teknopathetic!!

Seems like a highly plausible location for the Sibling's retreat, conveniently close to Cultivation's shardpool too.

That would be awesome if Rock bonded the sibling, only downside would be that they would have to rename the tower city Stewrithiru.

[Zelly]

13 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

 Stewrithiru.

Technically, Stewurithiruwets. 

I just assume that Rock had strong, but distant claim to kingship....but as family members died he's suddenly found himself as either king/high priest/something super important.  Which is curiously similar to what happened to Adolin via Dalinar's abdication and Elhokar's demise.  We also had Azure discussing what it means to choose not to rule.....assumed it was for Adolin, but maybe applies here as well.

[Solant he/him]

Not to mention the difficulties he would come across should a Windrunner spren choose to bond with him. I imagine he would have to give up the blade due to a screaming spren corpse, and IIRC the plate interferes with lashing.

[+Hoiditthroughthegrapevine he/him]

Here's the Scene from Book 4 when Rock finally uses his bond to the Sibling to get the power back on at Urithiru,

[Toaster Retribution he/him]

18 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

Considering that Rock might have a connection to The Sibling,

Can you elaborate on this? It’s news to me.

[Walin he/him]

He probably used Tension to pull the bow back near the end of the book...but then again, he lifted a log. It may be just strength. Anyways, it was Rock’s stew that brought the bridgemen together, and he seems like a leader kind of guy.

Maybe there’s a race of each Leader-type Radiant.

Archetype: Has a past where family members have been killed. Refuses a high position. Goes through bad stuff. Gets high position, or land, even though they didn’t want it. Is Radiant.

Kaladin: high position is the land he got near the end of the book.

Rock: high position is Bondsmith and perhaps land.

[Angsos]

If Rock were really a bondsmith, wouldn't he have given away both Shardblades, unless he like Renarin in not telling anyone?

[teknopathetic he/him]

3 hours ago, Angsos said:

If Rock were really a bondsmith, wouldn't he have given away both Shardblades, unless he like Renarin in not telling anyone?

I don't think he is a bond smith now, but will become one later. 

[stonedshaman]

Can squires of one order bond a spren of a different order?

[teknopathetic he/him]

11 minutes ago, stonedshaman said:

Can squires of one order bond a spren of a different order?

I think we have a WOB that is technically possible to bond two spren. 

[StrikerEZ he/him]

29 minutes ago, stonedshaman said:

Can squires of one order bond a spren of a different order?

Yeah, I don't think there would be anything stopping them from doing so. Assuming they could attract the spren of the different order.

17 minutes ago, teknopathetic said:

I think we have a WOB that is technically possible to bond two spren. 

Yeah, but it would be very hard. You'd have to somehow attract two different radiant spren, follow both oaths, and whatever else would be necessary to bond two spren. Brandon has implied the spren would have to agree to it.

Quote

Questioner

Could someone bond with two spren and wield two swords?

Brandon Sanderson

It is theoretically possible, but the spren aren't going to like it.  So you are not going to see it very often.

source

Quote

Questioner

Is there a limit to how many Shardblades you can have? Be bonded to?

Brandon Sanderson

Theoretically, not really. There are some things that can limit bound that.. I can imagine people have a lot. In the original draft of The Way of Kings (2002) Amaram had two. And so, it's definitely possible to have multiples, and I had not thought of someone trying to bond every Shardblade. 

Questioner

So that means you can be bonded to more than one spren.

Brandon Sanderson

Well, those Shardblades... Can you be bonded to more than one spren? That question's answer is also yes. Potentially. But there is a much harder limit on that.

source

 

[IllNsickly he/him]

Rock as a Bondsmith feels really good. I like this, SERIOUSLY.

And, IIRC, Bondsmith and Windrunner share a surge, so developing as a Squire under Kaladin still fits.

Rock was also instrumental in Kaladin’s effort to Bond (yep, intentional) with Bridge Four. Based on Dalinar’s Arc, Bondsmith is a facilitating role. They bring integral people together and act as a Hub, forging and maintaining the connections between them. All appearances are that Rock is royalty now. Though, I May have had that suspicion very early in his Arc.

Royalty doesn’t typically engage in direct combat roles. The provide guidance and support for the combat roles associated with them. When SHTF, they may take direct action (a’la Rock+Shardbow vs. Amaram) but generally, they do not engage directly.

Spoiler

Side note:

Why does his full name only have one apostrophe? And why an apostrophe, which letter or letters are being substituted?

 

Edited May 2, 2018 by IllNsickly
Wordy things.

[Elenion he/him]

10 minutes ago, IllNsickly said:

Side note:

Why does his full name only have one apostrophe? And why an apostrophe, which letter or letters are being substituted?

In this case the apostrophe isn't marking a letter deletion, but telling the reader to make a slight pause at that point in the name. Or at least that's how I'm interpreting it.

[IllNsickly he/him]

@Elenion

I suppose it feels like there should be more than one pause, if there are any.

 

At least one more, after Numuhuku. Just my pennies.

Edited May 2, 2018 by IllNsickly
Extra letters

[MountainKing]

There's actually more than one pause. Remember Horneater names are short poems.

[Stark he/him]

No matter how you shake it, there will be a lot of things that change for Rock in the year off.  Whether Bondsmith (Coll, had not thought of that) or not, he is now the most influential Horneater in the peaks.  First to own shards. Killed an Alethi Highprince in battle.  Is Radiant.  His wife hinted at more before he hushed her - as his family spends more time around Bridge Four their Alethi will get better, and the chances that his secret will slip gets higher.

 

Never mind that he was well off enough that each of his kids could be taught a different secondary language.  The next year will likely ruin Rock's life, forcing him to be something he does not want to, but it will be extremely interesting.

[teknopathetic he/him]

5 hours ago, Stark said:

No matter how you shake it, there will be a lot of things that change for Rock in the year off.  Whether Bondsmith (Coll, had not thought of that) or not, he is now the most influential Horneater in the peaks.  First to own shards. Killed an Alethi Highprince in battle.  Is Radiant.  His wife hinted at more before he hushed her - as his family spends more time around Bridge Four their Alethi will get better, and the chances that his secret will slip gets higher.

 

Never mind that he was well off enough that each of his kids could be taught a different secondary language.  The next year will likely ruin Rock's life, forcing him to be something he does not want to, but it will be extremely interesting.

My issue is that he broke his oath of non-violence which may prevent him from bonding? OR that was a lie and his secret child-rank changed what he could do. 

[Xtafa]

19 hours ago, MountainKing said:

There's actually more than one pause. Remember Horneater names are short poems.

Yeah, In my mind I was assuming it was a sentence break in the poem, as opposed to a word. 

[IllNsickly he/him]

5 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

My issue is that he broke his oath of non-violence which may prevent him from bonding? OR that was a lie and his secret child-rank changed what he could do. 

‘Was only a small log!’ 

This line always pops into my head when I think about Rock. 

I don’t recall him ever making an Oath of non-violence, he has simply refused to participate because it is ‘Not His Place.’ It is for 4th son and below. 

Because of events and circumstances, he has gone from 4th son to King Rock on the Peaks. He had trained in combat skills when he was younger and then found himself in a position where it is no longer his place to fill a Warriors role.

 

 

[Stark he/him]

13 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

My issue is that he broke his oath

 

7 hours ago, IllNsickly said:

I don’t recall him ever making an Oath of non-violence

I agree with sickly - His stance on martial violence outside of sparring with Kaladin seemed more cultural than anything else.  There was no mention of an oath, just that violence was beneath him as the Nth son.  He is clearly trained for war, but finds violence distasteful, which may be why he was hiding his rank after his family lost their bid for Sadeas' plate.  Definitely a culture thing, in line with the shin valuing 'he who adds' over 'he who takes away'.

[Philomath she/her]

On 5/1/2018 at 10:41 PM, Elenion said:

In this case the apostrophe isn't marking a letter deletion, but telling the reader to make a slight pause at that point in the name. Or at least that's how I'm interpreting it.

In Hawaiian, the apostrophe indicates what is called a glottal stop. Basically the kind of pause/sound in the word "uh-oh" in the English language. Since their names are based on Polynesian languages I assume it would apply here. Thus I would assume that this is the only place in his name where there would be a pause despite the name itself meaning the equivalent of a short poem. If I recall correctly,(but I'm not as sure on this) it is also something in Hawaiian where they combine their words into names to give a specific meaning so it could be lots of little words put together in a long name to be poetic. 

Regarding what will happen with Rock in the future, I just know I can't wait for it. I loved him in Oathbringer. And the whole series really. I am intrigued with the idea of him being a Bondsmith instead of a Windrunner but I would be fine either way. If he is going to be a Bondsmith though, I would rather him bond the Nightwatcher than the Sibling because I don't want him to be stuck in Urithiru as is suspected of the bondsmith associated with the Sibling. I would love to see more interactions with his family and I am looking forward to learning more of his backstory and about Horneaters in general.