Is Trell a New Shard?

[EdroGrimshell]

I got this thought pretty randomly, but, it got me thinking. What if Trell is, in fact, one of the shards we have not heard about yet. Better yet, what if Trell is the patron of the Southern Continent of Scadrial in place of Harmony, since he seems to have put most of his attention to Elendel in the north.

 

That thought led to me thinking of potential shards, which got me to a pairing of shards (since they seem to come in pairs) of Progress and Tradition, which may actually both be shards present on Scadrial. If that's the case, then it is possible that Progress is the reason for Allomantic Technology in the Southern Continent, and may in fact be the source of power for it as Preservation was for normal Allomancy.

 

It also holds in line with Paalm, Ruin and Preservation have been in command for too long, and Harmony is just both of them put together. She wants to progress, to free people from Harmony, to progress past Harmony, past Ruin and Preservation. Because he's holding them back, he gave them too much, and they have stopped progressing because of it. As Harmony says himself, they should have advanced more than they have, but have stagnated because they don't need to advance. Progress would be inclined to try and force this advancement, and would have already done so on the southern continent, letting him know what can be done.

 

As for Tradition, all I have to do is look at the Terris people to see the mark of it. The Terris in Era 2 follow a tradition left behind by their people, they make little progress outside of it. It could also be the source of Feruchemy, though I honestly feel that Feruchemy should actually be of Preservation and Allomancy should be the mixing of powers of Ruin and Preservation, but that's beside the point.

 

As it stands, Feruchemy has little explanation as to why it exists in the first place, the Terris people seem to just have the power in them. But where did it come from? While I've seen some say that it's a specific mix of ruin and preservation's power, and I can see that, I just think that another shard might have imbued them with a small amount of its power, sneaking it into the creation of humanity. This would explain a few things about the Terris, such as their hold to tradition and collection of knowledge, yet rarely using that knowledge outside of teaching to pass on the tradition. It also explains, somewhat, where Feruchemy itself comes from, since a blending of Ruin and Preservation's power is what created the world and the imbalance created intelligence, the blend also giving feruchemy seems a little unlikely.

 

This is, however, pure speculation. None of it is even supported, but there are several shards we don't know about as of yet, and I thought this was an interesting take on the idea. I'm likely just blowing hot air, but it fits to me and I like spreading ideas like this around now and again.

[yurisses]

This WoB makes me strongly believe the unknown metal is something native to Scadrial and not connected with any other Shard.

 

 

[33:38]
Q: As of Shadows of Self, how many Shards are there on Scadrial?

A: (nervous laugh) There are two.... Harmony counts as two Shards. I do mean it that way, and I am giving you clarification so you don't all freak out.

Source: https://docs.google.com/document/d/111riGqQLl2oRcdlVmnKX3tBaAlFR46Ps_ebZeftXxrY

 

... the answer could be interpreted several ways. "Being" on Scadrial can by some definitions have very high requirements (and the questioner might even have one of those definitions in mind when asking). Does it count as "being on Scadrial" if you send a worldhopper on your behalf, maybe with a couple of items that have your Investiture? Does sending a splinter to Scadrial count as being on it? So if Brandon meant it that way, then yeah it's possible that Trell/the unknown metal is something of a new Shard.

 

However, this other WoB makes me believe the one I posted above does mean the unknown metal is not from another Shard:

 

 

Questioner: What’s the most cosmere-icly-significant in Shadows of Self?

Brandon:  In this book Shadows of Self…  Shadows of Self is not terribly cosmere-significant, the next book has a lot more.

Questioner: So the middle series?

Brandon: No, no, no, The Bands of Mourning, the actual next one has some relevant stuff.  Oh, what’s the most relevant in this?..  The fact that Hoid is eavesdropping--

Questioner: On the carriage?

Brandon: In the carriage.  That’s pretty cosmere relevant, but there’s not a ton in this one.  I wanted this one to stay really focused on Wax.  You’ll see some more worldhoppers in the next one and stuff, so keep your eyes open.  They’re hard to miss, honestly, in the next one.

 

Source: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1r4u4t0SH_O-uEkaMwE9Iqjbrzem2e9xXRjFLvGWd7HI

 

The fact that Hoid is eavesdropping? More significant than Bavadin or Rayse messing about on Scadrial, something which, thinking of it, might be worth a dozen more eavesdropping worldhoppers? Must be a problem largely internal to Scadrial.

 

So I think we assume it's sent by another Shard but it's actually internal and because we are expecting something else and have no idea what the heck the internal enemy could be (except Kelsier...) the answer will be earth-shattering. The only things that are making me doubt this opinion are: 

- it's suggested by both the kandra and our understanding of allomancy and the cosmere that this should be from another Shard. So either the kandra are wrong or lying or our understanding of what we assumed to know is about to change and drastically.

- a veeery little clue that there might be a cosmeric connection in one of the unpublished novels. There's a good possibility, in my mind, that the most part of the explanation will be Scadrial-centric, but there would still be minor unanswered questions or unexplored leads just like in the Hero of Ages epigraphs. Maybe something like- I have delved and searched, and have only been able to come up with a single name: AdonalsiumOdium. Who, or what, it was, I do not yet know.

 

That said, I really like the concept of Shards Progress and Tradition. I feel like if they didn't sound too much like a moral reverse of Ruin and Preservation it could be a really good Shard pair in the cosmere.

Edited January 14, 2016 by yurisses

[Voidus]

I'll try to dig up the quote but the metal comes from a Shard we know.
 

 

 

Q: Is the metal in Bleeder from a Shard that we know of?
A: Yes.

There's also another WoB that it's not a metal Harmony knows so I highly doubt it's native to Scadrial.
 

 

 

Q: About Paalm’s spike, is it that one specifically that allowed her to hide from Harmony?
A: It was mostly because she was not using a spike made out of any metal that he knew. She could not have done that with any spike. Taking out one helped a bit, but a non-Harmony spike… what you’re seeing there is a weird intentional hack of the magic system that I built in.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Voidus

[baby]

I believe that we have a WoB that says that Odium has been messing around on every known planet, and many more unknown.

 

EDIT: here it is

 

 

KOGIOPSIS

Given that we now know that Odium can 'make it possible' for people to use magic that draws on him on other planets, has he done this anywhere besides Roshar?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Odium has been active on all other planets, including several we haven't seen yet.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Onceler

[mattig89ch]

I belive the quote is something along the lines of 'The metal from the spike is not one harmony os aware of'.  I only read the audible versions so I'm not 100% on that quote

[EdroGrimshell]

That said, I really like the concept of Shards Progress and Tradition. I feel like if they didn't sound too much like a moral reverse of Ruin and Preservation it could be a really good Shard pair in the cosmere.

Hm, that makes me think of how the Intent of a shard can be changed based on the Interpretation of the Shardholder. Ruin is change, not destruction per se, meaning that if the holder saw the intent as Progress rather than Destruction as Ati seemed to have done, it could have changed the whole dynamic on Scadrial. Same with if Preservation had its intent interpreted as Tradition... That's actually really interesting...

[Master_Moridin]

Hm, that makes me think of how the Intent of a shard can be changed based on the Interpretation of the Shardholder. Ruin is change, not destruction per se, meaning that if the holder saw the intent as Progress rather than Destruction as Ati seemed to have done, it could have changed the whole dynamic on Scadrial. Same with if Preservation had its intent interpreted as Tradition... That's actually really interesting...

 

That doesn't really work, given that Ati was reportedly an incredibly nice person.

 

And Ruin is less generic change, and more entropy.

[natc]

Ruin will be entropy and destructive change, in all honesty, while "positive" change and progress is more Cultivation's domain. Swapping them will indeed pin Preservation as the antagonistic side of the dynamic, but I doubt Ati could've improved his position even if he tried. His is a force that ultimately breaks down everything even if he builds things up as part of the process.

[Weltall]

Wasn't there a WoB (maybe an annotation) that what we got in the original trilogy was the least-destructive interpretation of Ruin that Ati could work out? Or at least it began that way before he became so molded by the intent of the Shard?

 

Anyhow, since we have WoB that the mystery metal is from a Shard that we know and it's really hard to conceive of Sazed not recognizing his own metal (because Harmonium will be A Thing at some point) I think the most reasonable interpretation of the response to 'how many Shards are on Scadrial' means 'It's just Harmony, before someone else came knocking' and that someone can't be one of the six or so Shards we know absolutely nothing about. Ergo, it's almost got to be Odium or Autonomy since all the others are splintered or busy on their worlds and messing around with Scadrial doesn't fit with what we know of them. Me, I'm pretty certain it's Autonomy.

[Voidus]

Wasn't there a WoB (maybe an annotation) that what we got in the original trilogy was the least-destructive interpretation of Ruin that Ati could work out? Or at least it began that way before he became so molded by the intent of the Shard?

 

Anyhow, since we have WoB that the mystery metal is from a Shard that we know and it's really hard to conceive of Sazed not recognizing his own metal (because Harmonium will be A Thing at some point) I think the most reasonable interpretation of the response to 'how many Shards are on Scadrial' means 'It's just Harmony, before someone else came knocking' and that someone can't be one of the six or so Shards we know absolutely nothing about. Ergo, it's almost got to be Odium or Autonomy since all the others are splintered or busy on their worlds and messing around with Scadrial doesn't fit with what we know of them. Me, I'm pretty certain it's Autonomy.

There's one other Shard we've been told about but don't know the name of, if Brandon was being particularly tricky he could have classified that as us 'knowing of' that Shard.

[Weltall]

Yeah, but what we know of it is basically 'it wants to hide and survive' which is pretty much the opposite of what's going on with Scadrial so I'm not even counting it.

 

And if you want to get picky, we may know of two unnamed Shards since we have WoB that Odium splintered a fourth. Assuming it's not the 'hide and survive' one (and it would be very Brandon to be sneaky like that) there are two out there we know of that could have been included. But I don't count that one for the rather obvious reason that if it's splintered it's not in a state to go about creating new god metals and making trouble for Harmony. So we're really down to Odium, Autonomy or the two working together.

[Voidus]

The Shard itself might not be directing events though, the god metal could be being used without its knowledge.

[Weltall]

It would still have to actively do something to get those invested bits metal on Scadrial and there's one moment where Paalm is speaking telepathically but not to Wax. Either she was talking to herself and messing with Wax's head or she was in communication with the Shard. Makes it hard to buy that it could be the 'Hiding' one in some sort of passive role.

 

Plus, active or passive, messing around with what's probably the most powerful entity in the Cosmere right now is conducive to neither hiding nor necessarily surviving, even if Harmony isn't dangerous in the same way Odium is. I can't really imagine what motive a Shard whose stated interest is to essentially find the deepest hole to hide in and stay there could have for doing anything so attention-getting. Which is why I'm back to discounting it as a possible source for the new metal.

[Voidus]

It would still have to actively do something to get those invested bits metal on Scadrial and there's one moment where Paalm is speaking telepathically but not to Wax. Either she was talking to herself and messing with Wax's head or she was in communication with the Shard. Makes it hard to buy that it could be the 'Hiding' one in some sort of passive role.

 

Plus, active or passive, messing around with what's probably the most powerful entity in the Cosmere right now is conducive to neither hiding nor necessarily surviving, even if Harmony isn't dangerous in the same way Odium is. I can't really imagine what motive a Shard whose stated interest is to essentially find the deepest hole to hide in and stay there could have for doing anything so attention-getting. Which is why I'm back to discounting it as a possible source for the new metal.

Not necessarily, all it had to do was make the metal at some point, somewhere. Which honestly does sound pretty in line with a Shard that wants to be left alone, not much to do but play around with your Shardic powers.

Doesn't have to be a Shard she was talking to, a Splinter or a Sliver or even just a particularly Invested individual might be able to pull it off.

Again it's not necessarily the plans of the Shard. It could be Odium framing some other Shard and hoping Harmony takes him out, killing another Shard and simultaneously distracting and likely weakening Harmony. Or just some worldhopper who found the metal in their travels and is putting it to use without the Shards approval.

[Kingsdaughter613]

It should be pointed out that technically there are only two Shards on ROSHAR. Sodium is actually on Braize but is spiritually invested on Roshar. Brandon could be hinting that a third Shard is in the system, just not the planet itself.

[Kaymyth]

It should be pointed out that technically there are only two Shards on ROSHAR. Sodium is actually on Braize but is spiritually invested on Roshar. Brandon could be hinting that a third Shard is in the system, just not the planet itself.

 

You win Best Autocorrect for the day. 

[Weltall]

...well there's no need to get all salty about it.