Quick Fix Game 8: The Steelway Express

[dowanx]

Hey guys I will be placing my vote on Shallan.  

 

As for strategy this game I would really like to call out more discussion in this thread.  I haven't seen any real analysis of the game mechanics in this thread which is great day/night 1 fodder.  I personally think the cars mechanic will work great as a semi-pseudo-seeker.  If someone gets killed in a car the inhabitants of that car should become public knowledge.  

 

22 people playing means about 7 people per car (No one starts in the vault car right?).  If someone dies in a car we know that at least 1 of those 7 is a CC.  This doesn't tell us much by itself, but as the game progresses it will become useful.  Any thoughts?

[Peng the Just he/him]

Hey guys I will be placing my vote on Shallan.  

 

As for strategy this game I would really like to call out more discussion in this thread.  I haven't seen any real analysis of the game mechanics in this thread which is great day/night 1 fodder.  I personally think the cars mechanic will work great as a semi-pseudo-seeker.  If someone gets killed in a car the inhabitants of that car should become public knowledge.  

 

22 people playing means about 7 people per car (No one starts in the vault car right?).  If someone dies in a car we know that at least 1 of those 7 is a CC.  This doesn't tell us much by itself, but as the game progresses it will become useful.  Any thoughts?

I like this. If someone in your car dies, announce everyone who was there. That's the best way to start narrowing things down. For now, I'll place my vote on met-al simply because no one else has and I want money.

[Adamir he/him]

If someone gets killed in a car the inhabitants of that car should become public knowledge. 

I completely agree. I can't afford a medic at the moment, and so I need to do anything to actively discourage Coinshot Clan members from killing me. And so I am posting a list of people in my car (buffet).

 

Zas678

Dowanx

Araris Valerian

Alvron

Metacognition

The Only Joe

Renegade

OrlokTsubodai

[Renegade he/him]

Actually, all actions, other than train-car-specific actions, can affect anyone in game, other than those in the Vault Car.  (That's why there's the Vault Car in the first place.)

 

Nobody begins the game in the Vault Car.

 

Also, the Medical Kit will protect Coinshot Clan and Assassin kills, but not the lynch.

[A Joe in the Bush]

I completely agree. I can't afford a medic at the moment, and so I need to do anything to actively discourage Coinshot Clan members from killing me. And so I am posting a list of people in my car (buffet).

Zas678

Dowanx

Araris Valerian

Alvron

Metacognition

The Only Joe

Renegade

OrlokTsubodai

I can confirm those are the members of the buffet car. Except Renegade. He's in every car.

[Adamir he/him]

I wrote Renegade by mistake - I was just going through the list.

[dowanx]

Just to be clear I meant after a kill has occurred.  I guess it doesn't matter much though because we aren't trying to hide a seeker or defender type role. 

 

I would also like to point out the CC don't know who each other are yet and during the first few cycles only the ones making the kills will know who the others are.  At least I think that is how it works.  So round 1 only 1 CC will know all CCs and round 2 only 2 CCs will know all CCs and so forth until round 4 or 5?  With 22 people and no google doc I am betting on 5 CC members. 

[A Joe in the Bush]

I think they all know who eachother are, but they can only communicate via a single PM per cycle that the killer can't respond to.

[dowanx]

Hmm could we get a GM to weigh in?

[Renegade he/him]

And yes, the members of the Coinshot Clan will be informed of their fellow members at the beginning of the game.  They will also be informed of which player is performing the kill at the beginning of each cycle.

 

​

Source

[dowanx]

Aww, ok thanks for the clarification Ren.

[leiftinspace he/him]

Hi phattemer! I'm on. And I'm voting for Met-al, mostly because i don't trust him and he seems entirely too eager to hit people. (Can a mod fix that for me?)

Edited June 21, 2015 by Metacognition

[leiftinspace he/him]

And just clarifying, the coinshot kill can affect anyone in any car except the vault car right?

[Elithanathile he/him]

Sorry for not mentioning this before, but I will be inactive on Sundays.

[Seonid he/him]

Good enough for me, Orlok. I hope you don't mind that I'm leaving my vote on you because I want my coin. If you come up for the lynch, I'll move my vote somewhere else unless there good reason.

On the points made by Aanwolf. Those are valid. Wholely and completely. Personally, I am against many first round lynches because there's almost never enough information to make a reasonable guess. It's mostly just sorting in the dark.

On the other hand, the lynch is one of the most important sources of information in the game, and removing that information source the first round is not good for the village's prospects. Not to mention that people have no reason to respond if they know we're not going to lynch them.

A solution (one I advocate fully for this game especially, where there are no roles and the lynch and it's surrounding discussion are our only points of information) is to have what phattemer called "discussion with intent to lynch."

We are not going to take lynching off the table. Our discussion is oriented towards finding a target for the lynch. The pressure is real and present. However, we aren't married to the idea of a round 1 lynch. If our discussion doesn't produce a good target, then we don't lynch.

We had a good discussion of the related themes in the Anniversary Game. I would recommend reading it if you'd like to see arguments out our in far more cogent detail than I am providing here.

It's also worth mentioning that Meta tends to use inactive players as ablative targets. Woe into you if you're inactive in a game where Meta's got a Coinshot role. As far as I can make out, his theory is that if your not talking, you're not helping and if your not helping, it's worth lynching/village killing you for that alone.

I don't go so far, but it is a valid viewpoint. Inactive players provide a place for Eliminators to hide, as well as reducing the amount of players available to vote down the Eliminators, which effectively means that they need to kill less people to win.

[emilylime she/her]

Just checking in- I was dumb and didn't realize this thread existed until just now v.v I'll vote in an hour or two when I have time.

[Adamir he/him]

Could I bring up a possible suspect?

 

Dowanx has the perfect cover; he is providing 'helpful' information that the ruleset clearly shows is incorrect. This may be human error, or it may be a calculated plan to make us disqualify him as a suspect because we think he's trying to help  . Dowanx,  anything to say for yourself? I am no longer lynching myself, instead I am lynching Dowanx.

[Zas678 he/him]

I'm not sure who to vote for, to be honest. First day lynches are hard, and they're pretty easily influenced away from Eliminators to Cultists Villagers. But the discussion always helps. More information at the hands of the public is generally good for the villagers (although not quite so much in this case, when the eliminators don't have as much conversation with each other).

 

Truth be told, I'm a little suspicious (though not much) of Adamir. I don't *think* he's a cultist, but he's been a little erratic in his playing style, and I know I was wanting to be very much active last game, which was my first, especially since I was an Eliminator. It's possible that Adamir's experiencing the same thing. 

[Orlok Tsubodai he/him]

Although I said to my companions in my carriage that I would vote for Adamir, on the grounds that I am somewhat suspicious of him, but that he doesn't have a current vote, so someone would have to agree with me to have him lynched, I have noticed that Meta appears to have two votes on him. Whilst I am wary of Meta, I do not think him yet worthy of a lynch, and as such I shall vote for [color:red] Araris [/color] to tie off the vote, and because his inactivity having called out a player himself is somewhat interesting - and if we are to lynch, an inactive might he better than meta, who if good has great potential for the passengers.

Edit: no one has posted following me, so I am continuing this - I presume this is the correct procedure?
Following Zas' agreement with me regarding Adamir, I shall change my vote from ARARIS to ADAMIR - capitalised due to my inability to sort out colour on here... I think it better we have a shot at a cultist than an inactive - whilst now not leaving meta to the lynch.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Metacognition

[Lightsworn Panda he/him]

OK, vote tally. I'm using a slightly modified Kas format:

Gamma: Meta (1)

Joe: Araris (1)

Araris: Joe, Orlock (2)

Alvron: Jain (1)

Ghetti: Neodymium (1)

Orlok: Seonid (1)

Phattemer: Adamir <1> (0)

Adamir: Phattemer, Adamir <3>, Zas (2)

Aaonwolf: Ghetti <1> (0)

Meta: Aaonwolf, peng, leftinspace? (2/3)

leftinspace: phattemer (1)

Zas: Adamir <2> (0)

dowanx: Ghetti <2>, Adamir <4> (2)

Shallan: dowanx (1)

Separate analysis post coming...

Edit: Can't count...

Edit: Added leif's possible vote.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Lightsworn Panda

[Adamir he/him]

Sigh. The accusation of being a Coinshot is the hardest to debate out of, by virtue of the fact that a Coinshot is expected to deny being a Coinshot. And so I will address both the arguments against me.

 

Argument 1 - Orlok.

 

The argument: He's too naive, he must be faking it. We have a cultist in our midst.

 

Thank you for reminding me I haven't had the innocence beaten out of me yet - mob lynching, come over here, I have an urgent medical problem. I am too trusting, and therefore I am obviously a cultist. I can only be cured by use of rope and gallows.

 

Now, allow me to explain my strategy to people outside the buffet car. Step 1, choose two people. Step 2, declare your unending trust for them. Step 3, sit back now that you've reduced your chances of death by 1/3rd. If we assume that there are six people in the car, then by all likelihood one of them is a member of the Coinshot Clan. If that member assumes you to be weak and gullible, they decide that you are a low priority threat, and so they target someone else who actually suspects them. My naivite was self-preservation.

 

Argument 2 - Zas678.

 

The argument: He's too active, it must come from the excitement of being an eliminator on his first game.

 

I quote, emphasis mine:

 

I was wanting to be very much active last game, which was my first, especially since I was an Eliminator. It's possible that Adamir's experiencing the same thing. 

 

Does no one else see the massive logic flaw there? This is my first forum game of Sanderson Elimination; of course I want to be active. That, and  the fact that it was a weekend, meant that I didn't have anything to do but be active. As you said, it isn't just because you were an eliminator that you were so active.

 

In conclusion, I hope you, the good travelers on the Steelway Express, see the logic and reason behind my words. I am an innocent man.

 

Also, to try to tie the vote, I am voting for Metacognition and cancelling my other vote, because Met-al already has votes against him. I'm not sure how many votes; if enough for him to get lynched, tell me and I will switch.

[Adamir he/him]

 

Adamir: Phattemer, Adamir <3>, Zas (1)

 

EDIT: Never mind, this is the votes against me.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Adamir

[Seonid he/him]

You're missing a vote on Meta, I think, Jain.

Leif Erikeller put one on Meta before Peng did. It's not in red (probably because he's on a mobile or something), but he asked a moderator to fix it. I think that, in the past, we've counted those. Ren would have to make the final call, obviously, but it's worth noting, especially if he comes back and fixes it.

It's actually dangerously close to becoming a bandwagon.

Analysis time, perhaps. Meta has been basically role-playing so far. There are substantive points hidden in the RP, but he hasn't actually come out and given arguments. I honestly can't see why there are so many votes on him? Aanwolf I understand. Leif just says he doesn't trust him without posting reasoning.

Peng was just after the money.

EDIT: It looks like Peng was before Leif

Edited June 21, 2015 by Seonid

[Metacognition he/him]

OK, vote tally. I'm using a slightly modified Kas format:

 

Gamma: Meta (1)

Joe: Araris (1)

Araris: Joe, Orlock (2)

Alvron: Jain (1)

Ghetti: Neodymium (1)

Orlok: Seonid (1)

Phattemer: Adamir <1> (0)

Adamir: Phattemer, Adamir <3>, Zas (1)

Aaonwolf: Ghetti <1> (0)

Meta: Aaonwolf, peng (2)

leftinspace: phattemer (1)

Zas: Adamir <2> (0)

dowanx: Ghetti <2>, Adamir <4> (2)

Shallan: dowanx (1)

 

Separate analysis post coming...

 

Akually, Met-al have 3 votes against Met-al. Leif also vote for Met-al, remember? 

 

Evidently, everee one not lik Met-al. Met-al just lik punching! Wat's rong with that? If Met-al be lynched, Met-al punch u all in afterlife! 

 

EDIT: 4 votes now. 

Edited June 21, 2015 by Metacognition

[Seonid he/him]

Adamir, Meta is currently at 4 votes, enough to be lynched even without your vote.

If you really want to tie it up, either Araris or yourself would be your only bet.