Dual Sharblades Update

[Scriptorian]

I asked about this all the way back in April when I got my WoR signed, but I haven't been on since then, so here it goes.

I asked if a spren could form more than one physically distinct weapon, with the intent of seeing if a Knights Radiant could dual-wield shardblades. He basically said no, but he emphasized that spren were once all part of the same power, and so could possibly be Splintered again. I take this to mean that you could Splinter your own spren to get two shardblades, but that seems does not seem to me a good idea. This would also rule out shardbow/arrows. I suppose you could use a regular bow, and fire your spren in arrow-form...

[Lord Tavash Shar]

It could also mean in the same way that some one can have multiple Hemalurgy spikes one could have multiple spren grafted onto there spirit web.

It may put some interesting strain on the KR if there spren are of different orders.

[Scriptorian]

Yeah, I remember reading somewhere that it was possible to bond with spren from two different orders, but that it would be really tricky trying to follow both Ideals. You'd have to exemplify both orders' attributes just to attract the spren in the first place.

[Ashiok]

So shardblades can manifest as any single physical object, right?

[Lord Tavash Shar]

That is what we are give to understand, Syl at one point during the fight with szeth becomes a shield so at least they can become any weapon.

[maxal]

Yeah, I remember reading somewhere that it was possible to bond with spren from two different orders, but that it would be really tricky trying to follow both Ideals. You'd have to exemplify both orders' attributes just to attract the spren in the first place.

 

It would need to be two orders whose oaths do not contradict... I wonder what the possibilities would be and if we are going to see it...

[Oudeis]

I believe there's WoB that at least states that spren can take on forms with no martial application. Not exactly the same thing as "the can be any physical object" but it's a lot. I also think he says the size is MUCH bigger than we've ever seen, like the volume of a human.

[KevinTheHerdazian]

Actually he RAFO'd it according to the non martial application. But with the bow idea, I love that. Shard arrow!

Edited November 3, 2014 by KevinTheHerdazian

[the winter system]

Imagine a Shardplate.

 

A plate for eating on made out of a spren. 

[Shardcellist]

I suppose you could use a regular bow, and fire your spren in arrow-form...

Fabrial grandbows, as seen in TWOK.

[sun tzaro]

I suppose you could use a regular bow, and fire your spren in arrow-form...

 

I don't think this would be very effective in practice. You fire your spren, and then what? You wait for your spren to fly back to you?

 

I mean, I guess if you only needed to fire one shot, it wouldn't be too bad, but if you miss you're stuck with a pretty long reload time.

[Moogle]

I don't think this would be very effective in practice. You fire your spren, and then what? You wait for your spren to fly back to you?

 

I mean, I guess if you only needed to fire one shot, it wouldn't be too bad, but if you miss you're stuck with a pretty long reload time.

 

Summoning a Shardblade is instant for a Radiant, as far as I know. I don't think you'd have to wait on your spren to travel physically back.

 

It would be slower than a regular bow, since you need to wait for the arrow to hit before you reload... but then, you don't need to reach down and grab an arrow from the ground/your quiver, so perhaps it balances out.

 

A Shardarrow doesn't seem terribly feasible though. If you just pierce flesh, it doesn't really do a whole lot. You'd need a pretty thick arrow, and you'd need to hit the right spot. Regular arrows can do damage no matter where they hit.

[luckat]

I believe there's WoB that at least states that spren can take on forms with no martial application. Not exactly the same thing as "the can be any physical object" but it's a lot. I also think he says the size is MUCH bigger than we've ever seen, like the volume of a human.

 

Here's the two WoBs that I think you're talking about. (I found them over here  )

Source:

Q: We've now seen that the Syl-Blade can change shape to meet Kaladin's needs. Is there a limit to the size that Syl can become?

 

A: As for the size, she can get up to about the size of a human.

 

Q: Okay, and is Syl limited to only weaponry, or can she take on the shape of other objects?

 

A: I'm gonna have to RAFO that.... (We take a picture together, and as I'm grabbing my books he says,) Though, to be fair, you have been seeing Syl change forms since the beginning of the books into many non-combat forms, so... (Fiendishly trails off)

 

Source:

Q: Syl gives Kaladin the choice to have any number of weapons or a shield. Pattern can be equally a sword or a small knife. Are spren limited to being items of war or could they be put to other uses? Could the surge binders less geared toward battle use their spren to make ladders, rope, etc?

A: No, this is not restricted to articles of war.

 

Actually he RAFO'd it according to the non martial application. But with the bow idea, I love that. Shard arrow!

So according to those, he did RAFO the non-combat question, but he later answered it 

[Oudeis]

In response to "what can she become" he says that we've seen Syl shapeshifting all this time... does this imply that all the things she's turned into are options for her to manifest physically? If so... she turned into fire at one point. Shardfire? What would that burn?

 

Also, to answer your Shardarrow question: Sharderang. Not the kind of boomerang that returns to you (well, not by conventional means), the kind you just throw once. It will travel reasonably swiftly (since it will be perfectly balanced and crafted), it will have a wide enough profile to likely hit the spine, if not, very likely to hit at least a limb (go ahead and throw it at knee height). Once it's past the ranks of soldiers, instantly summon it back. This is, granted, against mundane soldiers. It would be of interesting efficacy against Shardplate... with the enhanced grace, they would likely simply dodge. I wonder how well it would work against things like voidbringers. Thunderclasts, presumably, would be decent targets to it. You cannot help but hit them and they seem unlikely to dodge, and it will carve in so much deeper than a simple blade swipe would. Does it have a spine to sever? Can you rend its limb inert, or would it simply lose lines of itself like normal stone? We do see one's eyes fade as it dies, so presumably it's vulnerable to Shardblade instadeath. If not, a few throws to weaking a leg, and then when you close in, one or two shardblade attacks to "connect the dots" should sever it.

 

Why didn't the Starfall vision Radiants change their Blades? Six-foot-long monstrosities could not possibly have been the best option for the Midnight Essense, let alone a pack of them. They were getting in close enough for scratching, so at the very least a shorter Blade. Maybe something like a spear, to reach the main body while those spindly legs attack you? A Shardhalberd, to sweep the ground and attack their vulnerable aforementioned spindly legs? Anything other than a giant sword that would only get in your companion's way. Why didn't they shift?

[Scriptorian]

As to your last question, no idea. The obvious answer is because it would have revealed to much, but at the very least there should be a dang good in-story reason.
 
As to your second idea, I am now picturing giant shardglaive, ala night elves from WoW:

This would be awesome!

Edit: just realised this wasn't actually a throwing glaive, but it's pretty close. Just ignore the gauntlet thingy.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Serendipity

[Oudeis]

That is actually almost exactly what I had in mind when I thought of it. Right after getting the idea of a thrown weapon I did some research on boomerangs, and of the kinds I've seen, something like this looks perfect.

 

I suspect they'd be of limited efficacy against the Midnight Essence... small targets, easy to dodge. Though they do seem to group in packs, which is a great target. So, in certain circumstances, they would be very useful against the Midnight Essence. And I don't think we've ever seen any of the other Ten Deaths, so difficult to presume how it would work against those. Still, against mundane soldiers and Thunderclasts it's totally my weapon of choice. Against the Midnight Essence... presuming that all you need is to penetrate them, a light saber, or maybe even a foil. A dagger might be TOO short, though considering the instant reload, maybe a throwing blade would be perfect. Toss it when the monster is five feet out, instantly draw it back for the next one. Too far to scratch, too close to dodge/miss...

[Pathfinder]

That is actually almost exactly what I had in mind when I thought of it. Right after getting the idea of a thrown weapon I did some research on boomerangs, and of the kinds I've seen, something like this looks perfect.

 

I suspect they'd be of limited efficacy against the Midnight Essence... small targets, easy to dodge. Though they do seem to group in packs, which is a great target. So, in certain circumstances, they would be very useful against the Midnight Essence. And I don't think we've ever seen any of the other Ten Deaths, so difficult to presume how it would work against those. Still, against mundane soldiers and Thunderclasts it's totally my weapon of choice. Against the Midnight Essence... presuming that all you need is to penetrate them, a light saber, or maybe even a foil. A dagger might be TOO short, though considering the instant reload, maybe a throwing blade would be perfect. Toss it when the monster is five feet out, instantly draw it back for the next one. Too far to scratch, too close to dodge/miss...

My one problem with a sharderang is aren't boomerangs not bladed? They do have a thin profile, but they are a bludgeoning tool. If your aim is to act like a ranged shardblade, I do not think it would function as you intend. When Syl changes into a hammer, it slams into Szeth, not resulting in the soul severing that we get from the blade. Now if your aim is to just hit an enemy, and then summon it back to your hand to throw again, then I think that would totally work. Just I do not think throwing it, and have it scythe through countless enemies, burning their eyes out would happen/work.

[Oudeis]

Is there a reason my spren couldn't form into a boomerang with bladed edges? With some care in the design, it shouldn't significantly ruin the airflow that keeps the boomerang flying.

 

Can spren choose their own mass? Presumably. A "light as air" hammer wouldn't have done much good. So then presumably my Sharderang could choose to be the perfect mass to give it some heft but still fly far.

 

Are Radiants immune to their own Spren? i.e., could Kaladin grab Syl's bladed edge without harming himself? That would be ideal, so my Sharderang could be bladed all around evenly, without requiring a smooth grip. Still, a grip wouldn't be the end of the world.

 

It's possible you're right, and my Sharderang wouldn't work nearly as well in practice as I imagine it in my head. But what I wouldn't give for the opportunity to test it out and prove it would work.

[Betrail]

Is there a rule that spren have to manifest physically next to the radiant? (discarding the morality of the choice) what would keep a radiant from telling the spren to form into a blade above the head of your unaware enemy?

Also i don't think you would have to worry about catching the blade of your spren sine they could just turn back into a spren before they hit.

[Pathfinder]

Is there a reason my spren couldn't form into a boomerang with bladed edges? With some care in the design, it shouldn't significantly ruin the airflow that keeps the boomerang flying.

 

Can spren choose their own mass? Presumably. A "light as air" hammer wouldn't have done much good. So then presumably my Sharderang could choose to be the perfect mass to give it some heft but still fly far.

 

Are Radiants immune to their own Spren? i.e., could Kaladin grab Syl's bladed edge without harming himself? That would be ideal, so my Sharderang could be bladed all around evenly, without requiring a smooth grip. Still, a grip wouldn't be the end of the world.

 

It's possible you're right, and my Sharderang wouldn't work nearly as well in practice as I imagine it in my head. But what I wouldn't give for the opportunity to test it out and prove it would work.

Hmmm, honestly I am not sure. The only two weapons I can think of that functioned like a boomerang and were bladed were fictional. The chakram (if i spelled that correctly) from xena, and the krull blade from Krull both of which are aero dynamically impossible lol. 

 

I could see syl reforming after being thrown, so while Kal holds it, it has a handle, but after thrown its full bladed, but then again why even have to throw her? If that is true, couldn't she just change into the blade and fly herself among everyone?

[18th Shard]

Chakram are real. Google it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chakram If you're fine with wikipedia.

[Pathfinder]

Chakram are real. Google it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chakram If you're fine with wikipedia.

and so i stand corrected lol. There you have it then shardkram

Edited November 4, 2014 by Pathfinder

[Xavien]

Kaladin: "Hey Syl, I'm a little tired so why don't you fly around the battlefield and whenever you are about to run into one of my enemies just turn into a shard dagger and stab them."

 

Syl: "But I can't stab them myself Kaladin! I need you for that!"

 

Kal: "No you don't, just build up enough speed, turn into a shard dagger, and let inertia do the rest."

 

Syl: "Well ok, what are you going to be doing?"

 

Kal: "I'll just be sitting over here in the shade with Lopen, Rock has some interesting ideas for Bloody Mary's that he wants us to try."

 

Syl: "But...what if I don't know if they are your enemy or not?"

 

Kal: "Fine then, I'll point them out to you.  Now fly off and stab people for me."

 

Syl: "OK!"

[Oudeis]

Which Order would Xena be? Throughout the series, she tends to protect those who cannot protect themselves.

[sun tzaro]

Summoning a Shardblade is instant for a Radiant, as far as I know. I don't think you'd have to wait on your spren to travel physically back.

 

 

In WoR and WoK, Syl was never able to travel instantly back to Kaladin.

 

I always assumed that the reason why Radiants could summon their Shardblades instantly was because their spren are nearly always nearby, and their spren is what changes into their Shardblade.

Edited November 4, 2014 by sun tzaro