Mistdork

I'm pretty sure the hair isn't related so much with the similar cultural things. It's closer to what I'll tentatively call the rule of perception; i.e. on Roshar, the Alethi believe that a pure Alethi will have black hair. On Nalthis, the Ithians (and even some non-Ithians) believe that those who are (or were) in the direct line to the throne will have "magical locks" that can do certain things (like grow on command or change color). People believe it. Another example of this, though not really hair-related, is seen with the Returned. Returned who don't know how to limit the effects of their Divine Breath look as people expect them to look. They look like the ideal person (a physical 'god'). Pure Alethi have the ideal hair color. The royal family is magical, because arguably, that's an ideal too (that is, that royal heirs should be special). I'm not sure if it's Cosmere wide, though. It might partially be due to Endowment and Cultivation's intents being somewhat similar (at least in the way that they're invoked). Endowment endows such beliefs with his/her Investiture making them...reality. This could be seen as an indirect effect of the Shard's investment like with the Returned and the heirs to the throne (even if their time to inherit is long since due). You might be able to argue this even with Breath. Part of Awakening is perception. The better someone can perceive/imagine the Command, the better they can Awaken an object to obey that perceived/imagined command. Arguably, it's all about perception...or beliefs, it's a cognitive art that is expressed in the physical realm... Cultivation cultivates ideas/ideals like Alethi hair color making those reality...or really, she also cultivates Spren, making those ideas into real, living things too. Note that spren, on a very basic level, are ideas based on ideals, such as Honorspren, firespren, even Stormfather; it's like these guys were cultivated from human ideals that were then translated into ideas and finally, given a form...sometimes in the physical realm. (See Interlude with the firespren in WoK) Heralds in their physical form should follow this rule. People believe them to be something close to divinity, so, they'd probably look similar to Returned, because that's what people expect them to be. This post, though, is sounding too much like theory. So, yeah, how 'bout those kandra and fish?

@Meg: Oh Stormfather, it seems it hasn't officially been written yet...I guess I could write it, but I generally like planting seeds and letting others write the theories. This is more a matter of logic, but I'll give the short version here. We know that Breath as a known form of Investiture only appeared approximately 500 years before Warbreaker, or 800 years before Roshar. The question is "why"? It might be, as Tempus suggested, that it took Endowment a while to find a planet to invest in (or to want to Invest) thus explaining why Breath is a relatively "new" manifestation of Investiture. I personally think this is somewhat illogical, considering Endowment's intent, but the main point is, that compared to other manifestation's of a shard's intent (that is, it's Investiture), Breath (as a known manifestation) came later than the Metallic Arts and Stormlight. In other words, for some unknown reason, Endowment's Investiture has become known later than other manifestations of the Shard's intent...

We don't know what gender Endowment is, they and them are also gender neutral pronouns used for someone who has an unknown gender... The other part is a theory, we don't know why Endowment only invested in people 500 years ago (more than this now, probably closer to eight hundred if we are going off of modern Rosharan time). It could be a number of things, but we do know that Breath, as an expression of Investiture has only become known relatively recently for some unknown reason. Why that is, however, we can't say.

Even fishier than a kandra that ate a magical fish? Yes, and when we consider that Shashara's name has "shash" in it...like a similar naming convention on Roshar.Right, for now on I think I might just call Nalthis the lost Roshar colony. Perhaps a Nalthian myth led Vasher to Roshar somehow...he just, figured it out, I guess...

Oh fine, I worded it wrong...gosh, pick on it until it becomes a Lifeless or something... I was referring to the actual system of Investiture, which hasn't been in use as long and how odd that is (500 years, as Kobold mentioned). Vo only Returned around 500 years ago and supposedly died a week later, but I'm not sure I believe those legends, did he really figure out how a Return could produce a child in merely seven days? That seems quite odd. After that, Returned and perhaps Awakening started to appear in all parts of Nalthis, even in the old kingdoms across the sea...yet, here's what's odd... Why did Endowment start to return people? Didn't people have Breath before Vo came back? I realize that when Vo came they were near Endowment's pool, but it still seems strange that there would be such a change in the way things were done (Endowment suddenly deciding to Return people who had died on Nalthis) if they have been there for so long (let's say, 5,000 years), but if people were only there (created by Endowment or brought there through another method) sooner (let's say 500 years before Vo)...then perhaps the reason why Breath as a known manifestation of Investiture is "newer" is partially due to this relatively later date. To a Shard, 500 years or so (since this supposed event) wouldn't be that long (for an immortal being), so revealing this power relatively late (compared to other revealed manifestations of Investiture; such as Dominon/Devotion's variable manifestations; stormlight; and the Metallic Arts) would not be so strange in that case. So, really, all I'm suggesting is that the people of Nalthis are a relatively young group of humans, perhaps because Endowment created life later than the other Shards, it evolved slower than other Shard worlds, or they arrived at a later date...just as Breath, while not a new form of Investiture, was unknown until relatively recently (in the last 500 years). I was really just joking earlier when I said that because shash is a letter on Nalthis is a sign that they were all from Roshar...what would that mean, that everyone there is a descendant of the Knights Radiant or something? Pfft. That sounds completely ridiculous.

Pfft, the thing about shash...and even the hair. Part of me wouldn't be surprised if the people of Nalthis were Roshar aliens. There Investiture (Breath) is ridiculously young compared to other systems and even with the excuse that they hadn't found the shard pool (or where it's leaking), it just seems odd... Yes, it's like the Rosharans are aliens (to Roshar) turned on it's head!

I personally think that Hemalogy would be great for storing Breaths for later...or even stealing someone's Breath (and making them a drab) without their permission. Think about it, Breath is probably the most mobile form of innate Investiture, and it's quite easy to move (with commands). That means, I think, that it might be quite easy to rip this form of Investiture out of someone's sDNA without killing them. It could be a wonderful way to figure out how to use Hemalogy to take Investiture without killing the person...even if their personality is never quite the same again! So exciting. Either this, or store Breath in a Spike made from a Feruchemist with the right attribute...or just be/become a ferring with Nicrosil. Metal-based Investiture can really do curious things, and even though Awakening a spike would be very difficult (given what spikes are) storing Breath in a spike should be quite easy...as long as you have the right kind of spike, of course.

(How to fail your courses with Feruchemy)TM Failing all your finals (on purpose) by storing your memories of the answers in your copperminds and then throwing them into a fire. Store determination in your Electrum in the school year. You don't want to be motivated, after all, you're trying to fail. Storing wakefulness in class. Your prof can't wake you up. If you can't sleep in class for some reason, store metal speed instead. Storing enough luck in your Chromium so that you can't get the answers right on a multiple choice test...even if you know the subject by heart! Finally, if you were lucky enough to somehow be a Feruchemist born with Breath, become a drab (or store your Breath in your metalmind).

Eh, exactly why I mentioned Investiture at the end there. I wrote this post while half asleep and after finishing a paper/project on Money and Banking, so detail specifics were too muddied in my brain to a long explanation. You're right of course (though you don't have to explain it to me I know when microscopes were invented and why germ-theory came about), but this still supports my point about Investiture (and its effects, spren, etc) changing the way that technology develops. He still wanted to develop a textile industry...Mercantilism is a theory related to absolutist governments and centralizing powers, looked at properly, it's not a medieval theory. Feudal doesn't equate to absolutist, absolutism was a product of Enlightenment thought. The enlightened absolute monarch was believed by some (in France, the HRE, etc) to be the best way to protect the civil rights of their people... Smith's capitalism was developed in a parliamentary system (Scotland being part of Great Britain by this time) and as something of a counter to 'medieval' mercantilism...or France's economic system (you could say also that it took hold because of the kind of economy that Britain developed beyond Smith due to its democracy and later imperialism...) Not that one can't find some ideas in earlier periods, but mercantilism proper is a bit more Renaissance/Enlightenment than something of feudal lords. There's nothing wrong with saying that Sebarial might be something of a genius though, even if he's storming lazy about it...and if anything, Alethkar might very well become an absolutist-like state by the time these books are done...if it survives, that is. I'll agree with that. They are feudal lords, but I have very little familiarity with Asian history and I don't like the subject, it doesn't interest me. But here's another question to consider, can we call those periods in Asian history strictly medieval? Calling it medieval just because it occurred in the same period is rather Eurocentric...and perhaps unfair to the Song Dynasty (for example) or the Ming Dynasty. But anyways, a lot of early centralizing started in similar ways to what Gavilar has done. It's never easy, they (the Highprinces) would rather stay as they are, but that doesn't mean that it's not being forced to centralize even though they would rather not do so. That was actually a pretty usual tendency, would you like to give up power if you were a Highprince? Would you like someone treating you like you're a kid/new recruit that needs to be whipped into shape? Do you think that when similar things happened in Europe that feudal lords were happy about their kings/rulers consolidating power, conquering and demanding tribute and then taking away their rights and powers over their lands? Dalinar is arguably acting like a Ren/Reformation/Late Medieval era absolute monarch...even though he has a good reason for it and isn't the king. That said, though, the early Renaissance period was arguably still medieval...and a part of the High Middle Ages. Recently, a lot of historians say that the eras like Iron Age, Medieval, Renaissance, Enlightenment (which you need to add, arguably this is the period between late Medieval/Ren and Industrial, it lasted about 200 years), and such aren't really that concrete. They're fluid...just like Roshar's history/culture/etc is! That's one of the things that makes it's interesting, I think, seeing that it developed a culture/history that really isn't that similar to anything on earth (even when we say it's like Chinese/Korean/Western mesh, like some anime-thing in book form, it's really not that alike at all). I compare it to European trends because that's what I'm more familiar with, and no, I really don't care if that makes me Eurocentric and such a "horrible" person because I specialized in a different area of history (modern history, particularly U.S. and Britain)... Also, forgot gender roles. At least women can chose something other than getting married, though I think that their culture is somehow (ironically) more sexist than ours was despite that women can technically do more things than helping their husbands run their business/farms, being housewives, and having babies (or becoming nuns/etc; this comment is somewhat snarky). The ideas of men and women spheres are so well defined on Roshar it may be in some ways worse for women (and men). At least we were never expected to eat just sweet food. Yuck. It's a little like the spheres in this book were mix with a blender than poured out into separate cups marked 'woman' and 'man'. Some of it makes sense, like the highest calling of men being that of a warrior (for some reason their whole religion makes me think...VIKINGSxJudeo-Christian beliefs), but I recall being somewhat surprised that women were scholars and that men were surgeons. It's an example of how their culture is more "advanced" but at the same time "backwards", since in the Middle Ages and into the Enlightenment period women were midwives (even though there were a few surgeons/doctors in the 18th century, this was usually in the women's sphere until the late 18th/early 19th) and men went to be scholars at universities (or were privately taught), if a woman was a scholar she was a nun (like a man who is a scholar is most likely an ardent on Roshar).

Roshar is amazingly advanced in one area: medicine. Guess how long it took us to learn to wash our hands, even, after surgery? That happened in the 19th century. A lot of their techniques are more advanced in this area. They have no midwives, they have more medical knowledge than they should... Another point too. Even if they have a scientific method, we might have not heard of it (considering that this would be known by women/ardents). Yes, we've met some scholars, but these scholars (Navani, Jasnah, and Shallan) don't really practice that form of science... Also, considering how much Sebarial knows about economics and manufacturing when he's planning to set up his little economy on the plains...well... They even have large standing armies, most European nations didn't have that until the 18th/19th century. So really, here's my point. Roshar has some things that are more advanced than their "Iron Age"/Renaissance status. This isn't that shocking, the way technology advances on a world with Investiture is different because they have an extra source of power (Stormlight) and their culture is different. These two things effect what they discover and when. So, I'm not sure the traditional methods of measuring their society is the best one...Another point too, when considering a culture medieval/renaissance/enlightenment, it really depends where you're looking. In the cities of Roshar, it might be more Renaissance/Enlightenment (without the gunpowder and certain other advancements), but in the country side it would appear to be more medieval. I'd really need a good bit more stuff on Kholinar to know how medieval their society is, and we haven't really gotten that yet...

Oh, a present, thanks good sir. ;P Beyond clever puns, though, I think that Nightblood really comes off as psychopathic because of it's nature. This said though I think that the Nahel bond doesn't only give cognitive entities sentience and physical presence, it also gives them personhoid (humanity, so to speak). Meaning that Nightblood might develop more as a character now that he can form a Nahel bond. He can become more "human", and therefore more dynamic and perhaps more aware of what his command phrase means. My biggest question at this point concerning NB is who he can bond with and if this would bonding would be limited to people with Endowment's investiture...

Now I have no more sentience! DANGIT. WHAT ABOUT MY EXAMS. At least it's a good excuse for failure...right? D;

Just call it Nightlight...I mean...nevermind. *makes bad Twilight pun* NB's character development (if we can call it that...) could be done through conversations with others (Szeth). Perspective isn't the only way to develop characters. Syl is a developing character despite that we never see her perspective, and so arguable are all bonding spren, they change and develop because of the bond, obtaining more personhood through it. I'm not really ditching the whole NB interlude though, since, even though NB can't worldhop himself, he's probably been...around the cosmere a bit so it could still be valuable in an intercosmeric sense!

So...this is what happens when I go and be responsible and things... I swear, this whole forum has erupted into a mad shipping ship. Soon, we'll be shipping everything under the sun until it explodes into a radiant, valentine fest! Even Jasstick or...whatever...*sigh* Anyway, do we even know if Cognitive Entities can fall in love like that even when brought to the physical realm? I mean...sense you know they don't have certain...parts...and whatnot...?

I am stick, made of awesome.

This topic...it's just...seriously, you had to go there, huh? It's like having sexual relations with a corpse. That's exactly what it is, and sense such things happen in real life, someone probably did do it. Though, I would expect the demand for...sex with...Lifeless would be quite low, considering you can't make a profit, it would probably only happen on a person-to-person basis. Since you can't profit off it, that means that the Lifeless...sex slave business would be a terrible one to enter into, meaning it probably doesn't exist even with the fact that Lifeless are cheap, other things (like a place to hide it) might cost a bit too much considering how hard it would be for the slaver to make money. And I can't believe I...bah. -.-

It's Stick, of course. Who else could it be but Stick and his stickiness! Anyway, if I recall it's Jasnah, Renerin, Lift, Taln, and some unnamed Herald (which may also mean that this last one is likely still a little up in the air, as of yet)...

You're not the only one I was calling out, Feather. There are some people who don't think that he has ASD at all, there are others who think that this is just something used to "excuse" his actions. My argument is that they should respect him and his action while acknowledging that they are related to ASD as it relates to his characterization. I'm a little crazy, I tried to kill a dozen bird and it really didn't work. So, I apologize...and for not responding to your post for so long. Have you ever graded 200 exams? It's rather taxing. Anyway, I really don't mind your fan-ism...that much. It's just that I used to be like you. I've been overprotective of my siblings, (though not to the same extent that you are with Renarin), but you want to be published, right? It's fine to be a fangirl, I'm a fangirl of certain things and even certain characters in the Cosmere (whom will not be named), but admitting a character is dynamic, especially a character that you love, makes you understand him even more. Be overprotective of Renarin all you want, but I think that if you let yourself admit he doesn't need coddled and fawn, and can stand on his own two feet, you might end up loving and respecting his character even more (if that is possible, who knows). I also think that if you do so, it will help you make more dynamic characters, since the worst thing an author can do is be over protective, that stops their characters from developing in a believable way. I'm not claiming to be a better or more experience writer than you (in this area). However, it's somewhat similar to a history student writing their (first) thesis. They fall head over heels in love with it, gush about it for months, but the only way that it will bloom is if they realize that they can't baby it and keep all the bad parts of the their story out. Nurture it, yes, but sometimes loving a creative endeavor means realizing that those kind of things create a better story, character, et al. In the end, you'll love it anymore. The best pieces are always dynamic, changing, cultivating. No, Renarin isn't your character, but I think that applying this idea would be good for you, and I'm sorry that my first post sounded so personal. But I like Renarin...I like him because he's dynamic.

Could this be related to worldhopping? No? Okay, I'll stop making myself look like a fool. Anyway, I have my doubts. Returned are more like Elantrians (and, probably, Heralds), all three of these beings are some kind of living splinter that are also human-beings. Even Lerasium Mistborn are almost splinters. What, do you expect Elend to bond to himself if he were on Roshar so he could use Stormlight for Allomancy (much like the Mists, which are invested to the hilt, too, I guess). The splinters you're talking about Tempus are splinters of a certain kind and work a certain way. They're Cognitive Entities and are thus more cognitively based, by bonding on Roshar, they receive something from the Nahel bond. In the Spren's case, this is sentience (and whatever else), for Nightblood it might be something different. He might become...more spren-like. In the case of the Return, they lack this kind of benefit. Yes, they can absorb Stormlight, and no, we don't know how they would hijack the system, but absorbing Investiture is what Returned too. It's similar to what Nightblood does when pulled, but at a slower rate because they're both Splinters of Endowment... I think it would be way harder for someone like Vasher to Awaken with Stormlight, but not necessarily absorb it. Awakening probably takes some extra...hijacking, it's one thing to hack into a bank account held by someone's grandma, it's another to hack Fort Knox. And yes, that's a horrible analogy, I'm sorry.

I do a lot of non-fiction writing in my field of study (it's history/economics), so...I use fanfiction and short story writing to break up the pace. Otherwise, everything gets stale. The stuff I wrote has never been that good. I'm not a gifted (or even good) creative writer, but this only hit me after taking a Creative Writing course in college. It was kind of like that kid that thinks he's a great artist because they're little tribe of friends told them so (because they didn't want them to feel bad), but then he goes to a real art gallery and realizes that he had no idea about proportions, perspective, or prospects. Still, dabbling in art, like dabbling in creative writing, is a hard habit to break, it also relieves stress, especially if it's not your job. So, I support it...to an extent. Fanfiction can be a great teaching tool. It can teach people how to write characters in character, it can teach people how to plot stories and what works and what doesn't work, but it can also teach people bad writing habits, like poor grammar and sentence structure. It's not that fanfiction is immoral, but...it can bring real harm too, since writing is used in most fields, even if that is just writing a good resume...Fanfiction writing is fun and it can help, but I'm just weary about promoting.

I bet it might be related to whatever Pewter x Atium does...since well...*speculation babble* Or not...

Nightblood took a thousand Breaths to create, not 10,000 (I think, I'll look this up later). I honestly don't know, though. Can you make a person out of Investiture like that if you're not a Shard if you have enough?

Crap, that embarrassing moment you swear you were posting in one topic and...err... *Sigh* Time to save face. I think that Vin is only the champion in the sense that she is so attuned to the power and in away is attune to Preservation's intent (thanks to having more of its Investiture as a Mistborn and her other things...abilities). What we don't have at this point is a good definition of what Champion means in the Cosmere, if it's a Cosmeric term or if it's just a term used for the Shard's "chosen" in the Roshar system for the pact between the Three...

What about a world with other (non-magical) races sit in the past of that world? Would that be historical Science Fiction? Or would people consider it lone-end fantasy just because it's medieval with aliens? And in such a setting, even things that are more or less scientific could seem fantastic because it's hard to explain genetics, biology, etc in that sitting, thus making it appear magical to the characters and, in turn, the readers despite that is not. What would you call that?