Elena

I think this might contradict Brandon's statement that there are no witnesses to the murder. Seeing Adolin throw Sadeas's Shardblade out of a window means someone saw him on the crime scene, which we know didn't happen as per WOB. eta: @robardinthere's a WOB getting quoted pretty often on tor.com that states that there were no witnesses. And even if someone suspected Adolin, it seems pretty unlikely that people would believe Known Good Guy Adolin went around randomly knifing people on his own side. Definitely agreed with @dsc01 above, as things stand a murder spree is likely to boost Dalinar's standing more than anything. Yes but he's still Vorin - he might be agnostic but he doesn't read, still sees safehands as forbidden and they make him uncomfortable. These things go much further than religious creed; it's cultural and deeply rooted. I don't think Syl wearing Vorin attire means anything different than it being Kaladin's culture.

I find it more likely that if Ialai is behind it then she wants to carry out what she and Sadeas had planned (cause mayem among Dalinar's allies) than somehow she guessed that Adolin lost his patience with Sadeas now rather than after the Tower/ 4 on 1 duel and finally killed him, and the entire Alhethi nation including the soldiers who respect him and the king his cousin will believe he's a crazy murderer because his father was a respected warlord in his youth, on par with Sadeas. Maybe Ialai is trying to increase the pressure, yes. But thinking her plan is using the murders to make Adolin feel bad only works if she 1) is sure beyond all doubts that it was Adolin who killed him, which in absence of a witness is unlikely. Only days after the murder, it's short sighted to only focus on one person with motive above anyone else, especially since this plot would only work on Adolin, assuming that- 2) Ialai knows him well enough to guess that Adolin is horrified about having killed Sadeas. This is important because most people in Dalinar's camp who hate Sadeas probably wouldn't feel bad about killing him - Ialai's eventual master plan only works if she can read Adolin and can tell he's a very caring person under the cocky image he projects. Sadeas definitely seemed like he totally misurnserstood Adolin during their conversation in that storm shelter, so Ialai probably doesn't know him either. For these reasons if Ialai did it she probably has more general purposes than just slowly driving Adolin to paranoid insanity. Also worth remembering that her only scheme we saw so far included an assassin toppling a whole bridge into a chasm - not exactly slow and subtle. Also: this runs into the risk of derailing Sadeas's murder investigation for good, since now it's no longer about who could have had reasons to kill Sadeas, but about a crazed serial killer. Would Ialai, only days after her husband's death before any other avenue for revenge waa exausted, undermine the importance of her husband's death in such a way, by lumping him with 'all the others'? We don't know yet, but I'm doubtful and that's why my first guess remains some kind of Ghostbloods plot.

Yeah, rereading that passage, it felt quite off from her: "roshone killed my brother and made my family suffer for years" "yeah, but your father insulted roshone, so roshone was justified" Ok, it wasn't exactly what it meant, but it read a lot like that. Still, I think laral has a better capacity than kaladin to see all sides. kaladin has been trained militarily to think in terms of "us" and "then", he even states so in the first book. He doesn't give a fair chance at his opponents. Okay so, keeping in mind that I love Laral and thus I'm hardly objective, we should probably keep in mind that she might be overcompensating in putting on an 'all-is-well' front for Kaladin's benefit. I'm glad she found her role and took control of her life, but it was a life she was thrust into, didn't choose. She had both her father and her betrothed die on her within a few years, then had to marry Roshone and likely felt lost and alone. Now she's in a better place, but Kaladin coming back has definitely brought up bittersweet childhood memories of when life was easier, and she wants it to make clear she's far from that lost girl now. So I never read her as arrogant, just like she's trying a bit too hard to show that she's fine, she's good, and it's all on her. (That said: as much as she's happy with her life I doubt she's happy in her marriage - content in it, more like it - and I hope her story is not over yet because she deserves true happiness. Her story always really made an impression on me.)

I just reread the chapters and, guys. I LOVE Kaladin beginning to love himself. *sobbing internally* this is so beautiful

I just really don't get how killing random lighteyes will discredit Dalinar and his allies (beyond making people worried/upset). Unless the objective is to upset Adolin as much as possible, as a political strategy is not really super effective. Who would believe that Dalinar Kholin, or one of his closest people, is going around killing random lighteyes? If the murders continue and are random, it's highly likely Adolin will have an alibi for at least one of them, which could prove a really good thing as it will be that much harder for people to believe he's behind all of the murders. If anything, this killing spree is helping Adolin's case, as it makes it looks like Sadeas was killed by the same person who also killed a person (people?) Adolin had absolutely no motive to attack. If anything, it will be the wrist not the murders that'll give him away - totally agreed about that

I know most people are guessing Ialai is behind the copycat murder and I see their point, but (assuming the murders will continue, which is likely) this seems a bit too irrational for her. How would she pick people to kill? How can that be pinned on Dalinar, besides the obvious 'create distraction' factor? Who would actually be doing the killing? For a scene this stage I'd expect one would need at least a lookout in addition to the killer, ideally two - would Ialai involve that many people, especially now that she's alone in her plotting? Too many variables left to chance for someone very visible who'd be taking a big gamble setting up all of this for no immediate gain. IDK, it seems to me like it's more likelyto be a Ghostblood plot; maybe they're seizing the chance to kill people they don't like and blame it all on some crazy stabbing maniac. They have also the expertise and probably more experience with 'larger' hits. Ps: anyway - where the hell is Amaram?

Just finished reading the second Shallan chapter, and all I can thank about is that Adolin absolutely definitely needs a hug. Somebody hug that kid.

First of all much agreement here - I think Elhokar coming into his own probably needs to include some tension/conflict with Dalinar, given the way Dalinar tends to act like the de facto king and not only isn't called out on it, he actively refuses to acknowledge what he's doing. I think they need to clear that up, Elhokar has to acknowledge that he's left Dalinar take charge of the kingom because it was easier, and Dalinar needs to admit that he's overstepping his role and deal with it one way or the other. That said. I foresee this conflict having limited impact in the future (except maybe on Elhokar's characterization) because I'm not expecting Dalinar to survive the book. I am reconsidering a bit - now thay he has a growing relationship with the Stormfather it seems more likely he'll stick around a little longer to give us more of that - but as things stand I still think he's going to die. We'll see what the next chapters will bring.

I think they logically must have run out of Stormlight, but maybe more gems were cut (and cut with more care) for the expicit purpose of holding as much Stormlight possible for as long as possible. Although I'm wondering whether the Voidbringers realized the implications of the Weepingand coordinated to attack during that period. Assuming Rosharan climate was the same, the Radiants of old probably hated the Weeping even more than Kaladin does: D

I love that we get seven hubdred interpretations out of the same three lines. To *me* the hurried tone he used to ask Hesina to write means that even five minutes would make a difference (and, again, how else did they send a message since the storm?) and the guardsman is just being a dick. I love overanalyzing stuff.

They definitely have a working sparnreed (now that @Pattern made it clear to me that they don't run on stormlight, are just paired). Lirin asked Hesina to write to Sadeas's house (I assume to the Pricedom's capital) with enough urgency that it sounded like they can reasonably expect an answer in short time. The already contacted the capital to ask for soldiers, and - three days after the storm - Lirin thought Ka may have been one of them. Plus, Hearthstone is a somewhat major hub in the region - surely, it's a small town, but also the focal point for many much smaller farming villages. They have a fourth dahn citylord. They probably had a spanreed even when Laral's father was citylord.

Apologies if this has been brought up elsewhere, I haven't seen it Anybody else here thinks that now that Dalinar is bonded to the Stormfather/married to Navani, some of his memories may start to come back? This really doesn't have any factual basis in the text, except the fact that I personally believe the flashbacks we get would be somewhat cheapened if only the readers knew what happened and Dalinar were still missing large chuncks of his own story. His arc is not about memories in the same way Shallan is, but I think reconciling yourself with who you used to be (pre 'becoming broken') is an important step in the progression of any Radiants, if not for strictly Radiant-y reasons then because it makes for a more impactful climax to the flashback story. Even Kaladin had a moment where he flashed back to Tien's death before speaking the Second Ideal, and he'd remembered his brother's death all along. If Shshsh's death was such a pivotal moment in Dalinar's character development as it's looking like it could be, then it's important he remembers what happened so he can face the person he used to be. There's also Navani: the woman Dalinar loves, a woman he's always loved. He doesn't even account for the years when he was married to another woman, someone whom by all account fit him very well and whom he also loved. It's like she'd never existed; this makes his feelings for Navani that much stronger, because as things stand she is the only woman Dalinar can remember loving, from the time he was in his late teens to his fifties. I'm not seeing they should go through a rough patch, but Dalinar remembering some things about his first wife would probably put his relationship with Navani into prospective and he'd need to get used to that. Also, whatever happened when Shshsh died is likely to influence his relationship with his sons as well, to an extent. On the downside: I know it's kind of a hard sell that somehow the Stormfather would be able to 'counter' the influence of the Nighwatcher, since she is of Cultivation and probably just as powerful in her own way. If this were ever to happen, it would likely be a consequence of Dalinar being married again, to a woman he did not ask to forget, thus cancelling out the first boon/curse, whatever it was. Much like how some people thought that maybe the Nightwatcher's curse/boon would extend now to Navani as Dalinar's wife; what if instead it had been tied to both Shshsh's name and the fact that she was Dalinar's wife, and now that his wife is someone else it might start to lose power?? ...I know, unlikely. But cool! tl;dr: If Dalinar started to remember some things about his first wife it would make the flashbacks more impactiful narrative-wise, and would also have a considerable effect on Dalinar's character development, since as things stand he seems quite at peace with the person he used to be - he was only upset about letting Gavilar die, until he finally got over it when he fought Szeth. He needs to deal with his past some more, and he can't exactly do that if he can barely remember any event involving his wife. Also this theory no textual foundations whatsoever, I just think it's cool

Brandon is usually pretty good at not leaving POVs on a cliffhanger/in the middle of the action (unless we're in the final part of the book). I'm actually thinking we might even get another Kaladin chapter next week. I'm not *sure*, bur I wouldn't be surpised if it happens. Okay, got it I personally just.. don't see a difference? Secondary characters definitely aren't there to be the focus of the story, but that doesn't mean their evolution can't be *about themselves* just as much as it is about furthering the plot. I think it's a case of chicken before the egg - you think Moash's development was there to further Kal's plot, I think Moash's arc was about what Moash would do and how that fit in the wider plot, including his actions' effects on Kaladin. In my experience, the best stories end up being those that are character-driven within given plot constrains, instead of plot-driven with the characters just along for the ride, and Stormlight is definitely a character-centred story. Elhokar's arc will be about himself just as much as it will be about needing to serve plot reasons or furthering someone's plot.

I'm said I can only upvote once. All the heart eyes.

Yes but does the gem stay infused or does it need to recharge? I'm assuming the first... right?

I understand Elhokar is contoversial but him being selfish and spoiled doesn't automatically mean he's going to become a bad guy. BTW I was referring to the bit where he tells Kal that he feels he doesn't know how to run a kingdom even though he was 'born for it', and references screwing up every time he tryes to take charge and trusting all the wrong people. I wouldn't say he only cares about looking good - he sounds like he wants to be a good king. So that other people will like him, definitely, but he wants to be a good and beloved king instead of going the Amaram route.

That's a world hopping I'd be down to see!

He can pretend he's 'guarding' Dalinar. From what? "From thieves, Amaram". Everywhere he turns, Kaladin is there. Bumping him in the shoulder in doorways, always staring, looking at Amaram like he's picturing him getting eaten by a Chasmfiend. Brooding in that special way only Kaladin knows. Playing with a dagger very similar to the one they found into Sadeas's eyesock. Attracting deathspren. Smiling. Now, on a slightly less ridiculous note. I was rereading the chapters for like the 6th time, and This sounds to me like they have working spanreeds because he is expecting a quick response (though writing to Sadeas's capital to ask questions about Kaladin sounds like it might backfire) and that made me wonder - how do spanreeds work exaxtly? Do they also run on stormlight? If yes, how do so many people across Roshar have them so far into the Weeping?

I just don't think we'll ever find out, since Tien is dead and (so far) it doesn't look like he's going to be the focus of any post-mortem speculations like Shshsh or Gavilar are. Maybe it's just that I never got into him as a character as opposite to a plot point, but I personally feel he was only there to give further depth to Kaladin's backstory and motivations, and it doesn't really go any further than that. Besides, if Syl remembers Kal's parents then she probably remembers Tien too, and would've called him by name or at least made it clear who she meant. I totally missed this! Do you have a link to a thread about this theory?

Same-ish? I'm not annoyed at worldhoppers mostly because I fail at recognizing them, but I tend not to care because there have been precious few Cosmere characters I've genuinely loved *as characters* before SA, and none of them are worldhoppers so far. I've mostly be drawn to other Cosmere books for the plot/worldbuilding, and just haven't connected to most characters to the point where I want them to visit Roshar and read about it. Roshar natives and the SA story are much more interesting to me. Now if Shai were to show up in Roshar I would scream in glee, I love her.

The thing is, is in human nature to enjoy building people up to tear them down. There's always someone ready to believe a damning rumour, the worse the better, and I don't think Amaram would deny it were he pubblicly accused. Also we know from Kaladin's chapters in WoK that the enlisted darkeyed men (the ones most likely to be really upset after hearing something like that about Amaram) aren't shown to have particular loyalty to their princedom/ to resent and think the worst of their neighbours. Alethi unity is a nice story darkeyes are told; understanding how fragile that unity is is mostly reserved for lighteyes or in general people who are exposes to the scheming on a daily basis, like the troops on the Shattered Plains. Most people in Sadeas's princedom don't know Amaram, they have heard good things about him but they may just as inclined to believe the next bad thing they hear. That's not to say I don't agree that him becoming Highprince could happen, for storytelling reasons, and I definitely think it would be entertaining to read. If only to get Kaladin's reaction - I'm picturing him coughing discretely every time Amaram speaks and muttering 'liar' not-so-softly into his hand. Aww thank you ❤ I finished my exams yesterday, don't have to work and start classes on Monday in the meanwhile I have absolutely aaaaall the time in the world to speculate endlessly on here ETA: (I was *sure* I had included this but post did not save??) Anyway @Calderis I agree! Dalinar's got plenty of opposition coming his way. However, I think it will be a more gradual proces rather than overnight, and the matter of Sadeas's heir is going to be settled rather quickly - his men need a leader and the future Highprince needs to make his move before a rival gets there first. So, while I believe Dalinar will be discredited through the books, he will still be in a position where an eventual accusation against Amaram would carry plenty of weight by the time the succession is settled.

Dalinar has at least two other highprinces on his side (out of the seven currently in the city - one off a majority) and Amaram confessed in front of witnesses. Sure, he never said 'I stole a Shardblade' but to Dalinar's accusations he said he was sorry. Aldar watched him leave looking shocked. Of course Dalinar has formally no authority over Sadeas's princedom but if he makes what Amaram did public some of his own men may refuse to follow him. Think of the troubles Dalinar was having when people thought he was going insane; making it known that Amaram stole his Shardblade would be way worse - that is one of the main reason darkeyes follow lighteyes into war. Either as rumour or a straight up charge is damning, and some other highlord from Sadeas's princedom may seize the chance and the position. ETA: I don't want to imply that Highprinces have a say in how their peers are chosen with that 'majority' comment, I mean that if you want people to recognize you as Highprince then having some of your peers thinking you're a fraud is not a good start.

I mean since I didn't take the question "what's the highest rank a darkeye can have" to be a riddle I assumed we'd be talking about the highest rank a darkeye can attain barring any once-in-a-lifetime highprincely intervention. Maybe we just interpreted the question differently? @Lazarus52980 there's a WOB somewhere among the lines of "all you need to be Highprince is convince other people to call you that". If Sadeas has no direct heirs/ no relative powerful enough to claim the title he'd have been a strong contender for it, maybe even a natural successor - he's third dahn, a military leader and has a sterling reputation. He wouldn't need to marry Ialai and I don't think that would be something either of them wanted. Amaram seems like he wouldn't want someone that sharp poking around his affairs, and Ialai has just lost a husband she loved so she's probably more concerned with revenge than further legitimizing a man who doesn't really need help on that front. However post-Kaladin reveal Dalinar will definitely protest his appointment, and as things stand he has enough influence with the other Highprinces that may very well block Amaram from being appointed. Also if word got out that he enslaved a darkeyed man who won a Shardblade fair and square, he would be seriously undermined as a leader. Not even marrying Ialai would help. Also, I think he's more concerned with his Sons of Honour agenda than politics right now; he'll likely want to stay low for a while and figure out his next move.

That's a good point! Jasnah might have. She showed her annoyance at humanity keeping Parshmen as slaves instead of killing them already.

Parshmen are very valuable servants. Most Alethi who would maybe listen to Dalinar when he told them to leave their Parshmen behind definitely wouldn't kill them all without proof, and this goes double for all the people he's contacting via spanreed. Also, there wasn't enough time between Shallan telling Dalinar about Jasnah's suspicions re: Parhsmen and their expedition leaving. Even if there had been, both Dalinar's character (as opposite to young!Dalinar, who may very well have had them all killed) and Radiant ideals mean that he wouldn't have gone for such a solution. Going all Minority Report and punishing the Parshmen for what they have not yet done doesn't exactly go hand in hand with praching Life before Death. ETA: have a welcome upvote!