Cstryon

In each Cosmere story where we know that the Shard is present and whole, the Shard seems to just influence events, or grant powers, instead of just making their intent happen. On Scadrial, when Ruin is freed, he didn't just destroy everything. He had to create champions, or minions. Vin took up Preservation, and started changing things, only to be countered by Ruin, or allowed to screw up by Ruin. Ruin did start to destroy somewhat, but slowly. Why couldn't he just move the planet into unstable orbit? Why couldn't he just cause the ash mounts to all erupt like crazy at once, messing up the atmosphere quickly enough that everything living is destroyed. Maybe he didn't do any of that because he still needed to find the Atium stash to come to his full power, and without his minions living to find it, or destroying the world all together, he'd loose all that Atium. But Odium, why is his war on Roshar taking thousands of years? He shattered Honor, but why hasn't he shook the planet the way we know Preservation could? Harmony, he fixes Scadrial, changes little things, like snapping, and completely heals, and rewrites Spook's sDNA. And that's just what we know he did. So, are the shards limited? Is there some block in their influence caused when another shard is present and whole? Is there a reason why the whole Cosmere isn't just stuck in an epic celestial conflict of differing intents instead of Humans fighting against the intents of shards?

I really want this to be true. But we have to accept that each spike gives only one power (until some super multipowered spike is discovered) so with only "upwards of twenty" spikes, and not being a full mistborn or feruchemist to start with, he wouldn't have enough spikes to give him the same power TLR had.New list looks good. And yes, he's not only compounding strength and senses, he's compounding speed weight, healing, and youth. He's starting to sound pretty scary! Now comparing to TLR, he's not as strong for sure. TLR seemed to create them with the thought of being able to control them, so his emotional allomancy was obviously strong, if that's what you need to control beings with spikes. TLR had around 1000 years to learn all his tricks, plus had become a sliver, so he was clued into stuff. So Marsh, now being possibly the most powerful non shard holding being on Scadrial, could start learning some neat cool tricks.

These are good points Moogle. And the fact he said he was never as good as Breeze was might also indicate he's working at the same level, just with less talent. So maybe an extra Allomantic zinc, making him able to get Marasi to follow him, but just simply Allomantic brass, which makes him clumsy with soothing. Which would bring the list down to 20. So at least one more spike. I'd give it to Allomantic pewter. This would make him very strong. Which is useful when it comes to melee. Something I can see both Ruin and TLR wanting. Does having double the power make it easier to become a savant? Assuming an inquisitor would hardly need to worry about a decent supply of metals, and would obviously have to always have a huge supply of steel and iron just to see. They'd probably burn more than just steel and iron all the time. So if having increased power in one metal gives you increased control, I picture the user becoming a savant quickly. So with that assumption, Marsh may be a steel, iron, pewter savant. And stormit, he could be a tin savant out of necessity, lacking any visual input other than a bunch of blue lines pointing to every metal.

Kelsier and Zane both had reason to practice their skills. Marsh's only dexterous use we see is how Marasi seemed curious (which could just be a simple pull), unless I am not remembering something. His rather blunt use of soothing to me seemed like too much, he wasn't just obvious, like you said, he numbed her. His soothing wouldn't have been as strong, as a soother or mistborn because he got it second hand. And I don't think he's foolish enough to think he needed to use duralumin on her. I think he even mentioned something of an apology for soothing so strongly. He was unpracticed, with too much power.

I think the surge binder has problems using plate because they pull the stormlight from the gems charging the armor, causing it to become heavy and useless. Also, I think you aren't able to bind the plate (Szeth always had to touch parts of the body exposed) because it's too invested to affect.

Double brass and zinc make sense. It would be very helpful when Ruin was meeting resistance, inquisitor is now super scary. Plus the inquisitors were taking Koloss armies. So having double emotional allomancy means less need to use duralumin. I think PorridgeBrick, you might have a good count! I highly doubt fLarasium, there wasn't anymore Larasium, unless Sazed made more. And for fMalatium, well, we'd have to know what it stored and why it would be useful to Ruin. As far as I know, none of the inquisitors were doing anything we can't currently explain yet, and even though Marsh could have used the left over spikes from the dead inquisitors to get fMalatium, if Ruin had a reason to make that spike, I expect we would have seen it used.

Ok I remember this now, and remember your count again. So the standard Ruin inquisitors either had powers we didn't see the spikes for, if my list is right. Or not all of those powers were used, bringing the total to 14. Which makes sense with our in book description of the inquisitors having around 5 extra spikes.

Now, I was concerned about the use of "upwards of twenty" and what it meant. But I looked up "Upwards of - " and Marriam Webster actually defines this as "in excess of" so yes, more than 20...but not by much I'd guess. So with his actual amount of spikes aside, I thought we should figure what what Ruin would have wanted any one of his Inquisitors to have, and what powers where actually available to steal. (when it comes to Feruchemical atium, we could also assume, since Ruin has the Intent to destroy, he probably allowed stealing any power found, so having Feruchemical atium, while maybe not sought out by Ruin necessarily, would probably had just been a bonus outcome, of just having available spike, and another Feruchemist to kill.) for this list, I will leave out Feruchemical atium for a standard inquisitor, just to help find a baseline. So here is what I figure for a standard Ruin Inquisitor (there would be one spike for each ability listed): Allomantic iron, Feruchemical iron Allomantic steel, Feruchemical steel Allomantic tin, Allomantic pewter, Feruchemical pewter Allomantic zinc Allomantic brass Allomantic bronze (x 2), Feruchemical bronze Allomantic gold, Feruchemical gold Allomantic duralumin Allomantic atium So this is 16 spikes total. Assuming an Inquisitor would have already been a Misting, the Total would come down to 15. I don't know if we ever had an exact count of spikes on any given Inquisitor, if we did, this would help us to know what Ruin needed to add after TLR was gone. TLR would probably had some of them with increased normal attributes. I'd argue all of them had added strength, and at least most of them had added intelligence. So that total comes to 17 for an Inquisitor that already was an Inquisitor before Ruin took control. Any powers I left out, I did because I didn't see much use for them to have it. Example: Allomantic aluminum, Feruchemical aluminum, Ruin (and inquisitors for that matter) would have no use to burn Allomantic aluminum. And Feruchemical aluminum might have made it easier for inquisitors to fight Ruin's control. For Marsh, we know he has Feruchemical atium, how ever he got it. He also started out as a Bronze Misting. So his total for sure spikes should be 17. Everything else he's got is just increasing Allomantic powers, and/or increasing normal physical ability. If Marsh has in excess of twenty spikes, he would need at least 21. 24 I think might be a little high (I forget how you got that number Arcanist). So with that, We need at least 4 more spikes for Marsh to have "upwards of twenty" spikes.

Sorry for the double post. Might not need double Allomantic steel and Allomantic iron. Having to become savants just to be able to see, would probably make their pulls and pushes powerful. Also he being a seeker already means he only needed one spike giving Allomantic bronze, to be strong enough to pierce clouds. I don't see a need for Allomantic copper at all. Except for after the ascension, he wouldn't have needed to hide at all. Also, now we have to consider Sazed might not have changed anything for Marsh. He fixed Spook, so why not just fix Marsh. Unless Marsh didn't want to stop being an Inquisitor, or, because he has so many spikes, and his spirit Web is a patchwork of several webs, Sazed may not have known how, or even being two shards, isn't powerful enough to fix it. If Sazed did help Marsh gain powers, couldn't he just give him powers like he did for Spook? Again though, Marsh's messy spirit Web might prevent this. He has Feruchemical atium (it doesn't have to be arm bands, I think there is a WoB that compounding just a small store of youth in atium is enough to significantly decrease age.) his spike giving him Feruchemical atium could simply be a small wrist band of Atium. But again, where did he get this? What did they do with TLR Armbands?

Also, Ruin and messy aside, creating inquisitors is very expensive. Ruin might have wanted a fail-safe on some of the inquisitors incase it took a long time to destroy everything.

It'd be hilarious if the Ten Fools end up actually being The Heralds. Thousands of years of description, stories, interpretation, creating two different groups being opposite.

The Ten Wisdoms of the Stick: 1: I am a stick. 2: I am a stick. 3: I am a Stick. 4: I am a stick? 5: I am a stick! 6: I am a stick. 7: Stick am I? 8: Stick I am. 9: I am a stick. 10: I am a stick.

Yeah, I'm thinking it's just another example of creepy lullaby for children. All the things mentioned seem like things recognizable on Roshar, and any parallels we get could be us reading to deeply into it. Like Aheerema says, making events conform to prophecy. Silly little chicken Roo, his feet are green, and beak is blue. What ever you say, he'll say it too, that silly little chicken Roo.

Domi, a chainsaw.... Shard tools! Shard shovel, that Thanksgiving bbq pit will be easy to dig, every time! Shardnailgun... That drywall will...rust, the nail just keeps going...

10 psi in a gallon jug, that same volume squashed into a half gallon jug? I don't know how it multiplies, but the pressure inside is much higher. So assuming this is similar. aNecrosil -> aDuralimin -> Allomantic bendalloy = all the speed bubble, to a point, (zoom in on this point to make a duration), to a point?

I really don't know how this idea was planted. OKAY sorry, I'll not start that. It could be similar descriptions because it's the same guy writing. But that idea is lame. I always thought the way the blades formed must be related to stormlight. And don't we have a WoB that stormlight and the Mists are similar? Or is that breath? I'm thinking that all three are related. Maybe it's some similar way all the shards show. Endowment has some...prismatic effect "like oil over water" I think is what Vasher said in Warbreaker. Honor seems to have a "highstorm" look to it. And I think Preservation had some weird way of moving that told you it was the "Mists" and not just fog.

I agree with the thought of what the intent of the weapon is I think. But also I think you will also have some invested power behind your attacks. If your weapons intent was to crush, like a mace, than even though you might not sever anything unless you crushed it enough, you still would have easy crushing attacks with less effort required. My Warhammer might just destroy your steel plate and smash your chest enough to effectively separate your top, from your bottom. It might not be very graceful, and I expect there to be some explosive debris. But I think the effect expected from the type of weapon, is what you'll get unless blocked. My shardblade has the intent to cut, that's exactly what it does, my hammer is meant to Ham, I mean pound, that's what it does.

Merciful Domi, I can imagine some fairly horrible things "awakening" to Nightblood's commands if he were to ever get that ability! Nightblood's views on what life is, like human values, and "evil" might just be to loosely translated.

So here is a list, straight from the Coppermind wiki, of the Metal Arts on Scadrial. (Seriously just copied. I am horribly awful at making lists. http://coppermind.net/wiki/Metallic_Arts )

Below may have spoilers for Mistborn Trilogy and Alloy of Law. If you haven't read both, please do, they are amazing. So starting in the Windrunner vs Inquisitor thread, here: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/6653-windrunner-vs-steel-inquisitor/ it was pointed out that we really don't know their powers. Thanks to TheArcanist, we had began to discuss what we know Marsh can do by this point in the Cosmere timeline. Now, until Brandon or Peter come in and say "this is what he can do, and this is how many spikes he has." we will try to figure it out on our own, with what we know. TheArcanist made a list of spikes that Marsh likely has, a lot of what we think is what is revealed or hinted at, by Marsh's actions, and what probably would have been standard for any Inquisitor for TLR. (sorry I don't know how to quote from another thread, or link to it. Please PM me if you are annoyed with my noobness, and tell me how to do this stuff.) From TheArcanist: - Eye Spikes: One of these is Allomantic Steel, the other Allomantic Iron. The Inquisitor, needing to see, quickly become a Savant in both. - Sternum: A Steel spike doubling the base strength in Allomantic Steel. - Linchpin Spike: This is unconfirmed as far as I know, but the most logical place I could find for the Pewter spike that granted the Inquisitors Feruchemical Gold healing. - Rib Spikes: Four Bronze Spikes, one Iron Spike. The Bronze Spikes granted Allomantic Brass, Allomantic Zinc, Allomantic Copper, and a second dosage of Allomantic Bronze. The Iron Spike probably granted Allomantic Pewter, because what would an Inquisitor need with Tin? Maybe they changed it up, Inquisitor to Inquisitor, I don't know. - Rib Spike (?): A hypothetical Steel Spike granting a second does of Allomantic Iron to increase the base strength of Marsh's pulls to balance it out in comparison to his Allomantic Steel. - Armbands: Both armbands are Atium, one Allomantic and the other Feruchemical. It's how Marsh has survived this long, by compounding like Rashek was. - Heart Spike: A Pewter Spike which grants Feruchemical Steel. Scenes in Hero of Ages seem to imply that this was standard for most, if not all, Inquisitors once Ruin had been freed. - Unknown Placement: An Aluminum Spike of unknown placement granting Allomantic Duralumin. This is highly theoretical, as it has not been outright confirmed, but Marsh did act- and I think it mentioned -as though he was capable of using Allomantic Duralumin. - Unknown Placement: A Pewter Spike of unknown placement to give Marsh Feruchemical Iron. Possibly in the ribs. This appears to have become standard for Inquisitors following Ruin's release and the massacre of the Keepers. - Unknown Placement: A Pewter Spike of unknown placement to give Marsh Feruchemical Pewter. Certain scenes in Hero of Ages, Marsh's fight with Elend in particular, seem to indicate that he had one. - Unknown Placement: A Brass Spike of unknown placement to give Marsh Feruchemical Bronze. Inferred due to the fact that when Marsh is active during the events of Hero of Ages he seems to not sleep at all, but Inquisitors in general need to rest frequently to recharge their metalminds. So, please discuss, let's figure out how scary Ol' Ironeyes really is. Edit: So here is a list of powers we suspect have been added to Marsh. This is 22 spikes, which is a fair count for "upwards of twenty". Using this count, we can get a pretty good idea of how scary he really is. Allomantic iron (x2), Feruchemical iron Allomantic steel (x2), Feruchemical steel Allomantic tin (x2), Feruchemical tin Allomantic pewter (x2), Feruchemical pewter Allomantic zinc Allomantic brass Allomantic copper Allomantic bronze, Feruchemical bronze Allomantic gold, Feruchemical gold Allomantic duralumin Allomantic atium, Feruchemical atium

Good point about the Allomantic zinc and Allomantic brass. His rather blunt use of soothing, might not have been obviously using it, but rather using something that is already overpowered. Thanks for the list Arcanist. I will be doing some research on these and see if I can figure out for sure what he showed us he can do. If anyone else is researching this, some things I've been thinking. Since he has to gain the spike by stealing, being freed from Ruin, and being Harmony's agent, he has likely not gained anything new. Unless, Sazed gave him permission, or gave him some pre-made spikes. Also, he felt so guilty, that likely his guilt was strong enough to break Ruin's control, allowing him to free Vin. But that same guilt might keep him from killing others to get powers. There was a bunch of spikes left over. All those Inquisitors that Vin killed. Not long after, Sazed took up the shards, and I wouldn't doubt it if he grabbed all the left over spikes. I'm going to start a new thread in the Mistborn forums about Marsh's powers, since this thread really is supposed to be a debate, between two probably overpowered characters from the Cosmere. Here's the thread: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/8829-marshs-powers-and-the-hemalurgy-use/

So I don't know how to do spoiler tags, and am on my cell phone so it's hard to edit your whole post for just one section. Would you mind putting the list of spikes you've got including the last 4?

Shard body suit, against a regular army with no shards. Plate, and sword against another plate and sword. Quarter staff against 2-4 shard blades (changing the length as you need within whatever limits there are.) Changing your weapon like Kal did, with no plate, vs multiple foes with both plate and blade. Full body suit again when you're needing to get out of a tight spot.

I think we should consider the metaphysical pathways and not just blood. Doing awesome science as not my forte, understanding what you guys are saying if not beyond me though. So maybe SL runs primarily through blood, replacing O2 and other stuff, supernaturally increasing the physical ability of the whole cardiovascular system. And then, you focus it to certain tasks, it leaks out of the vessels, and flows metaphysically through the flesh, passing through cells to its destination, forgetting the blood flow. After this, any left over, absorbs back into the skin, to the blood. (iI'm pretty sure there was an example in one of the books where SL seemed to absorb into Kal's arm, though he still inhaled, like that motion just helped him do it.) This way, the SL leaks out of the skin slower when at normal use, and gets used faster at focused use. The blood vessels being a better container than the rest. Basically, I'm saying, I think you can both be right here. (though iI do have to agree that many people tend to underestimate how fast your blood will circulate.)

I'm thinking just as hard as awakening something that wasn't living. We don't know much about soulcasting yet, but I got the impression that you really were forcing a change to all three aspects. We know it's at first a cognitive change. Stick tells us that much. And the cognitive change, makes the physical change. As far as spiritual, I don't know, but I think, since we know we can chop the spirit up, add, remove change it, fairly easy (and messy), I'm thinking that the cognitive and physical change would force the spirit to change. I might need a better understanding of the spiritual aspect, and if that would change easily. Also, is awakening affecting the spirit at all? If it didn't, than soulcasting it to something that's none living/never lived, means that the spiritual aspect would be no help.