Seloun

Well, it's also possible that the 'boon' is even more meta - even if the Diagram's instructions are wrong, going about trying to fulfill the instructions are what actually saves the world. For example if it wasn't for Szeth, there's a good chance Kaladin never becomes a Windrunner. Assuming that He Who Pities The Fool is the one who (ultimately) set up Szeth's assassination of Gavilar, it's Mr. T's actions that leads to Roshone going to Kaladin's town and triggering that whole sequence of events. Ultimately it's also Szeth's initial attempt to assassinate Dalinar that triggers Kaladin's level-up; one of the Diagram epigraphs lampshades that.

There's a pretty big assumption here that there is a natural 'progression' in technology of different areas. However, I'll accept the premise for the sake of argument. It's worth noting that the Desolations have consistently knocked civilizations down in waves. The main mechanism of information being secured between the Desolations appears to be through the Heralds; Taln talks about how the Heralds will teach them about medicine and smelting. So it's actually not that surprising the 'tech level' would feel somewhat schizophrenic; the Heralds apparently can only stick around for a limited amount of time and each one is going to focus on their survival speciality. As a general statement, I think that holds, though individual cases can still be examined to see if that explanation makes sense. Also, there's nothing special about laying out the sequence using logarithms - it's not being used in a medical fashion here in any case, and it's also not really related to statistics (however, the woman was talking about both statistics as well as logarithms, but you can have one without the other). It's also not clear if there's an entire underlying mathematical theory of exponentials here or just an observation that you can plot large amounts of space in a small amount of space if you have a doubling concept.

In the diagram with the orders and the powers, the layout isn't rotationally symmetric. Note that the 4 orders that form the 'box' (Windrunners, Lightweavers and their up-down mirror pairs) have 4 order linkages while everyone else has 3 (everyone has the two adjacent, plus one opposite; the 'box' also has a link to their up-down mirror). It's unclear if those linkages actually mean anything, but that may be why it's not represented as a simple circle.

The passage actually reads It doesn't really indicate that he was closer to Tarah than that (in particular, there's no 'second to'). That said, clearly Tarah is being set up for a future book and it's certainly possible they were lovers. However, the existence of such barriers are, from a meta perspective, a very strong indication that there will be a relationship. If there was no plan for it, why make a big deal of the obstacles? In other words, why is Kaladin's previous relationships a Thing if it doesn't create some kind of conflict? Now, it's certainly possible that the conflict with respect to Tarah might not be related to Shallan; however, given all of the other clues, it's probably a safe bet to assume it will be (more importantly, if it's for some other reason, it seems like it has to be due to a reason we cannot know about yet, and seeing the future is a thing of the Voidbringers). As a side note, I noticed another contrast between Kaladin and Shallan: versus: and In particular note that Tien had lightened the gloom - implying that the Weeping was always a gloomy time for him, and this particular instance is not simply due to his wound and Syl being gone. I seem to recall seeing this side of Kaladin on WoK; I don't remember if we saw Shallan's reaction to the Weeping. Question is if this is somehow related to their sprens or just contrast-cidence.

It's probably better to think about it as not guessing the future, but examining the past. I'm not asserting that I have high confidence about what will happen in 8 books; instead, I'm comparing what we've seen so far in the previous 2 books. Consider a race of 10 laps. I can't tell you for sure after watching two laps who will win the race; however, I should be able to tell you who is in the lead. This question is no different; at least, that's how I approach it. In particular, you should be able to point to passages in the narrative to justify your reasoning. Continuing the analogy, this is a race where someone took pictures periodically during the course from various viewpoints, capturing several racers at a time, and we're sifting through the collection upto the second lap to try to figure out who is in the lead by the end of the second lap. Just because they're in the lead in the second lap doesn't mean they'll end up winning. Taken that way, it's true the poll is mostly meaningless. However, it's easy to recast the question into something which doesn't purely rely on speculation.

The point about Jasnah is almost certainly why she gets Put On A Bus. A lot of the challenges in WoR would have been minimized if she had made it to the Shattered Plains (the Epilogue somewhat lampshades that). Also, no reason for Shallan to come out of her shell. I'm not sure I agree that Shallan's changes were really that sudden. I really think it was pretty well foreshadowed even from WoK; despite her innocent demeanor, she's incredibly devious even from the very beginning. Her flashbacks are also to explain that she's really been doing this (both her buffing and hiding) for a long, long time - it's as much remembering as anything else. I don't think Shallan was actually all that super-competent in the book. She makes mistakes (if not fatal ones) in her dealings with the Ghostbloods. She misses the implication of Adolin's challenge (though that may be plot-enforced idiot ball-holding). She doesn't really do that much during the first council meeting besides bluff Sebarial (this is really not that far from how she dealt with the bookstore owner when Yalb gave her the opportunity). Her major wins are mapping the Plains and figuring out the Oathgate; the former is just a good use of her Memory ability, while the latter is something only she could have really done anyway (Kaladin being elsewhere).

It's worth noting that Kaladin's slave brand still hasn't healed. Maybe there's something special about them, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to think that 'ailments' that are part of your personal identity might not go away via Stormlight. The real answer is we just don't have enough evidence either way right now (at least, not that I can find). That said, from a meta perspective I think his condition being just a result of a physical defect is going to be pretty disappointing.

There was a Parshendi attack during/immediately after the bridgefall, which Kaladin hypothesizes would lead to Dalinar retreating. Everyone assumes they're dead (for good reason, since every non-surgebinder died from the fall). There's highstorm the day after, which probably makes going back out to the plateau incredibly risky; after the highstorm, the bodies would have been washed away even if they could be found. Back to the OT - I'm going to headcanon and say that there was in fact a lot of talk about Kaladin's performance during the duel, but none of the major characters really have much reason to interact with it. Adolin is also in prison (cold water, the horror), while Dalinar and the bridgemen don't really need more proof of Kaladin's awesomeness. When Kaladin comes back from the chasm, the woman who tells Dalinar refers to Kaladin as Stormblessed (in a manner that seems to imply that everyone knows who that is), so word definitely seems to be getting around (this is not the first awesome thing Kaladin has done, in any case). It's not too long after that that he becomes Superman which kind of renders everything else moot. The main events that occur after the duel and the chasm event (after the chasm event, the armies leave almost immediately for the last assault, so there's no real time for anything to occur) are Shallan's mission to investigate Taln and Dalinar/Navani at the party where Dalinar's visions are being mocked. In the former Shallan mainly just talks to the ardents and the Ghostblood woman where it doesn't really make sense for Kaladin to come up; the latter would make more sense (Wit abuses Amaram a bit) but it's probably overcome by Sadeas's attempts to ridicule Dalinar's visions. Dalinar also spends a week in seclusion during the time Kaladin is in prison binding the shardblade for his Amaram trick.

I don't think social status is going to matter for Kaladin. Even neglecting the fact he's a Radiant (a huge thing to ignore...) he's a Shardbearer, making him minimally a lighteyes of the 4th dahn, which is the same rank as Shallan's father. I'm pretty sure he outranks Roshone based simply on that alone. I would be surprised if Roshone's own guards would follow Roshone's direction over Kaladin, simply because he has a Shardblade. That does assume that Kaladin reveals the fact that he has a Shardblade, but at the very least he probably can't hide his eyes. Ultimately though I find it difficult to imagine it will matter in any case. Surgebinders are cool. As Nohadon says, Despite the Recreance and the church, it's going to be tough for your average joe to not be impressed by a Surgebinder when seeing them in action. They're basically superheroes.

I generally agree with this. Kaladin _catches a shardblade_ with his bare hands - and apparently no one comments on it. Yeah, it's just taking a page out of Dalinar's book, but...really? No one mentions it at all? That said I think it's not too unreasonable to chalk it up to Kaladin being immediately arrested, combined with the spectacle about the challenges. By the time he gets out, it's a pretty short period of time before the chasm scene, which is possibly even more mindboggling. Then a couple of weeks later, he's a Radiant, so the previous feats are almost par for the course. The latter half of the book seems to move very fast.

Appreciate the compliment! I'd personally say that Shallan's relationship with Kaladin is different even in respect to Jasnah's. As far as we are aware, Shallan hasn't gone into details about the problems her family is having (she focuses on the externalities - the Ghostblood involvement, the Soulcaster, but as far as we know, not about their internal problems). She almost certainly has not told Jasnah about killing her father. But probably the best argument is that Jasnah tells Shallan very, very little! She doesn't know much about Jasnah at all. On a side tangent, given the discussion about Jasnah and Shallan, I thought it was telling in WoK what (and how) Jasnah asks of Shallan near the end of the book: The interesting note is that she qualifies the latter with 'me, or anyone', but only herself for the former. The implication is of course Shallan is free to lie to other people. I'd wondered at the time if that was coincidence, but after WoR, I imagine not.

Well, that's the thing - I think joining Bridge Four was in fact for himself, not necessarily to help anyone else. I can see the argument that it was indirectly to help other people by trying to train himself to the point he can help other people, but I feel that is less explicit; it's not clear to me anyway that's what he's consciously trying to do. Also, the first thing Renarin says to Kaladin during his joining: and later He wants to be part of it; structure, organization, knowing where he *fits* all seems to be important to Renarin. I don't disagree that Renarin is more than willing to help people, e.g. Chasmfiend in WoK and arena scene in WoR. I'll also grant that those are times where Renarin shows initiative in the sense that no one has to tell him to get in there. But I guess 'initiative' was the wrong word - what I'm trying to say is that he doesn't really seem to be an independent actor. Again much of that might be due to the lack of PoV (it's going to be hard to see what he does when he's off by himself if we don't get to see what he's doing when he's off by himself), but so far it's a pretty big contrast to the other major protagonists. He seems to like being part of something bigger than himself and having something (person? laws? organization?) to follow.

The point isn't really that she's lying/misrepresenting herself to Adolin (after all, she does that to everyone), it's that...she does that to everyone. Except Kaladin. Or at least considerably less so with Kaladin. One of these things are not like the others...

There are minor references from her POV post-Chasm scene, most of which can be read ambiguously...and then there's _this_:

I'd say this is possibly a liiiiitle bit of a misconstruction. It's not that Renarin enjoys being ordered around persay, so much as it is the wanting to feel useful. He wants to contribute to the world around him. He wants to be able to do worthwhile things to help out. If someone gives him a task that he can do that is going to be helpful and actually something he can accomplish, he's going to relish that feeling and do it with happiness I don't necessarily disagree with that interpretation - it appears to be consistent with what we've seen - but I don't believe we ever see Renarin being proactive. He often acts in support of other peoples' actions, but he's never in the leading role. Much of this may be simply because we haven't had a Renarin POV or even a POV with him as the focus. Still, I don't think we see him take individual action on his own initiative (that is - he wants to help of his own initiative, but he's always being told what he needs to do help or following someone else's actions). So he wants to help, but he often doesn't seem to know how.

Well, naturally this is all speculation since it's dependent on sources that aren't written yet. I'd suggest the question is not 'what is going to happen' so much as 'which outcome would require the least amount of _additional_ explanation'. My personal assertion is that the relationship between Kaladin and Shallan, at this point, is the one that would require the most plot/character development to explain away. Kaladin and Shallan at this point do have a special relationship in the sense that their relationship to each other is unique from each of their perspectives. This is clear in the narrative. Whether or not Kaladin is the only one Shallan will confide in throughout the series is of course unknown, but we know for sure, right now, that he is the only that fits that description. I personally don't think the only reason Shallan hid things from Adolin is socio-political (I doubt Adolin was in a state to be able to understand Shallan's history), but that's opinion. What's demonstrated in the narrative however is that Kaladin knows more about Shallan than any other character in the book barring Shallan herself and Pattern, and likewise Shallan knows more about Kaladin than anyone besides Syl and Kaladin himself. It specifically mentions at least from Kaladin's perspective that he talks about things that he's never told anyone about with Shallan. We have no reason to think Shallan has ever talked about her family to anyone outside of her family (always excluding their sprens, of course), and we see that she hides her work with Jasnah from her family. She reveals all of that to Kaladin. Conversely, we see multiple instances where she lies about what's she's doing/has been doing with Adolin without any discomfort whatsoever (and it's not just Adolin; she has no compunctions about deceiving people in general - the real key here is that her interaction with Adolin is not really different from her interaction with the average joe). Likewise, it's clear in the narrative that both are attracted to each other by the end of the book. This is demonstrated in the scene where the armies are forming up for the final push into the Shattered Plains if the chasm scene was not explicit enough. Kaladin acknowledges to himself of his attraction to Shallan, and Shallan blanks out during a conversation with Adolin while trying to internally describe why she finds Kaladin interesting. Both of those points appear to be established bits of canon; if there's evidence against them in the narrative, it is unclear to me. That said, we can of course endless speculate about what will happen in the future; there's nothing that says their special relationship continues into the future. But as mentioned at the beginning, their relationship is the one that requires the most work to undo at this point. Regarding the generational themes, I'm not really sure I see it, at least as an overarching theme of the series. I don't know that I agree that that's the way the relationships need to analyzed. Regarding the marriage alliance - the point is that there's really no advantage from Shallan's perspective for the union. At the beginning the advantage is shaded to be mostly for Shallan's benefit (Jasnah being the only one with the information to consider the Radiant angle). By the end of the book, she doesn't really need a marriage alliance; her family is (presumably) secured and she has no need of the position, power or wealth the marriage would bring. I personally think Adolin and Shallan's relationship is superficial enough that there really isn't a triangle at this point; again, things can change, but as it stands I can't see that relationship developing without serious character development (probably on Adolin's part).

Kaladin has explicit internal commentary about why he's pursuing Szeth in those cases. Besides driving him away initially, Kaladin first pursues Szeth since he specifically mentions that he doesn't have to fight Kaladin, he just has to kill Dalinar. After the teleport, Szeth again mentions that he knows where Dalinar went (and Kaladin does not know - as far as he knows it might be just minutes away). I don't think you can directly compare Kaladin vs. Szeth to Adolin vs. Sadeas. Sadeas is not an immediate threat to Dalinar's life. Sadeas is still talking about undercutting Dalinar and removing him from power and not about killing Dalinar. That said, all that only means for sure is that Adolin's not going to be a Windrunner, which is a pretty low bar since it's unlikely anyone besides Kaladin will be a Windrunner (at least in the immediate future). I wouldn't call his actions to be a Skybreaker, either, given that he explicitly takes actions to avoid incrimination.

With respect to Urithiru's location, Shallan thinks near the end of the book: It's certainly possible the scholars are wrong, but they have a very good empirical reason to think it's near the center of the continent.

For some reason I got the feeling that Urithiru is just too high for the highstorms as an explanation of why Urithiru appears to be untouched by the highstorms. According to Szeth's interlude, the tower in Urithiru is the highest point in the world. The reason Szeth seems to visit Urithiru often is because its stones are unhallowed - his religion allows him to walk on the stones of Urithiru freely, unlike the rock on the ground. This might or might not be related to the highstorm thing. I'm not sure Radiants really needed a better Stormlight source. One of the effects of progressing as a Radiant appears to be more and more efficient usage of Stormlight. Also, pre-recreance might have had a different way of powering Radiants besides the highstorms. Without more information it's hard to judge, of course, but I would be surprised if the Stormlight shortage problem just went away that simply.

This doesn't really sound practical to me yet. Remote controlling a sword is not going to be easy. Plus, there doesn't seem to be any way to move the relative origin of the blade with any control; it's not like you have mental command of the blade and can make it move closer or further away, you have to actually do the motion yourself (at least, based on everything we've seen so far). Even if it was possible, I'd question if this would be something that would be generally useful.

I'd say the next Ideal will be about when to let go. One of the background issues in WoR which isn't addressed is Kaladin struggling with the concept that he should protect his men, yet allowing them to put themselves at risk to protect other people. This fits in nicely with 'leading' aspect, I think. For example, Kaladin might be forced to let someone else make a sacrifice to protect other people. He's got defending the helpless down pat; the next step is letting those who aren't helpless risk themselves to protect other people.

Syl doesn't really dictate morality to Kaladin. It's probably important to note that whenever Kaladin has a 'real' ethical dilemma (e.g. the Parshendi Windrunner hypothetical) Syl can't answer them. It seems pretty clear that Syl is just reflecting Kaladin's sense of the ethics. Kaladin knows from his own moral code that e.g. assassinating Amaram for revenge is wrong; when he's talking about it he's trying to justify why it's okay to take that action despite knowing that it's wrong. One of the big questions of the first book is if spren _cause_ what they're named for, or if they are _attracted_ by what they're named for. It seems pretty clear that it's the former; spren copy human observations. Syl is not enforcing an external morality on Kaladin; she's attracted to his abiding of his own morality. In doing so, she's effectively becoming a personification of his conscience. The primary issue between Cryptics and Honorspren seem to be how much each values results versus means. Pattern likes 'true lies' - statements that aren't accurate, but led to good results, while Syl is unhappy whenever Kaladin seems dishonest, despite his intent. During the highstorm scene in WoK: Kaladin has to explain to Syl that lying can be okay - it's not something she understands inherently. I think this is also an example of Syl reflecting Kaladin's morality rather than Syl imposing a sense of morality on Kaladin. Both Pattern and Syl are however very focused on self-discovery; they're both big on Shallan and Kaladin not lying to themselves. It's just how they interact with the outside world that differs. Both have similar goals, but their methods are different - it's sort of a doctrinal conflict.

This is my reading as well; it doesn't really make sense to consider the possibility of expanding the order if it wasn't possible. I have a feeling the unique abilities of the Bondsmiths relate to the oaths/Ideals themselves, based on the Ishi'Elin epigraph. Given the statement that persuading them to increase the size of their order was viewed as seditious, it certainly sounds like they have some kind of governing power (presumably over Radiants).

This is probably a general Sanderson observation, but there seems to be a lot of 'ironic echoes' in WoR. What I mean by that are similar phrases or scenes that pop up more than once, but due to the context they have a different meaning. I'm curious if anyone else has noticed anything like that. Couple I've noticed: - In the chasm scene, Kaladin: vs. - During training: vs. the arena scene (two actually): - Also arena: vs.

How does Shallan dig a shelter with a Shardblade while climbing with her safehand in a sleeve?