Confused

I theorized a few years ago that time manipulation is still part of a Truthwatcher's magic, comparing it to Allomantic time bubbles. @Argent didn't like the theory then and made a good counter. I based my conclusion on the WoR multi-Shardbearer duel. A more recent post borrowed from @skaa's theory of the essences to explain the KR orders in terms of Radiantspren (representing the Surges), "ideals," and essences. I posited there (and still believe) that Radiantspren are a combination of two "lesser" spren - pre-Shattering sentient spren. That's why Radiantspren can Focus two separate powers. Brandon first talked about this stuff in two 2010 WoBs I cite there.

@Calderis, apologies for my late arrival to the party, especially since I issued the invitation. I understand your theory to have two pillars: (1) the elements that comprise Focuses (forms, metals, commands, and spren/bonds) are “significant” throughout the cosmere but have greatest “prominence” on their respective Shardworlds; and (2) Focuses are a product of their Shardworld and not their Shards. I agree Focus elements exist elsewhere than their Major Shardworld; but why do you say they have “significance” elsewhere? I see why commands might be a specialized version of what Khriss calls “intent” (not to be confused with Shard “intent” – one reason I call Shard “intent” a Mandate). But your other examples don’t seem to line up as well with your “general-to-special” theory. ASIDE: I thought metals have cosmere-significance because that’s Investiture’s solid state and because practitioners of the Metallic Arts can use metal as their Focus everywhere. Is there something I missed? The first and last sentences in this quote seem to me contradictory. (I assume “present investiture” means the Shards’ Investiture?) I agree Shards created their magic systems by adapting to the magic they found on their chosen planets. I also agree Shards chose their planets largely because of the “inherent magic” Adonalsium left on their planet. But I believe Focuses are part of the magic systems the Shards created. Neither Adonalsium nor the Shards need Focuses. IMO, the “cosmere-wide” elements you describe became Focuses because of the same “Shard-Shardworld” interactions that produced the magic systems. I think this might explain your “Focuses are specialized versions of cosmere-wide phenomena” theory. I’ll quote my reply to @Cowmanthethird in another of your threads to describe how I think Focuses developed on each Major Shardworld (other than Scadrial): @Extesian, I’ve seen the first WoB you cite, but haven’t appreciated its significance: “people’s perception has sort of changed how the magic works.” We know that’s generally true, like with Kaladin’s slave brands. But Brandon says that’s why fabrial gemstones of nearly identical chemical composition can nonetheless produce different magical results! Lots to chew on there. Thanks! Also, if you haven’t yet read it yet, I suggest you look at @skaa's post that explains cosmere magic in terms of string theory. You might find something there to support your wavelength theory.

I agree with you all that a literal parsing of the Stormfather’s statement means oaths mark sapient beings. You all may be right and maybe I am “reading too much into this.” But I think word context and connotation justify my conclusion. To me, this is such an odd and unnecessary statement for the Stormfather to make. 1. I start with the presumption Brandon chooses his words carefully. The Stormfather could have said, “All oaths are the mark of sapient beings,” if that was the point Brandon wanted to make. He didn’t. Instead, he compared “men” with “beasts” and “true” spren with “sub”-spren. You may think his word choice is accurate and appropriate. I think it is pejorative. 2. Even Dalinar thought this was an “extreme opinion.” He questions whether it’s the Stormfather’s opinion or Honor’s and “chews” over this. If the opinion were just an obvious comparison between sapience and sentience, it shouldn’t have bothered Dalinar. 3. Most importantly, I don’t think the Stormfather was saying only sapient beings can make oaths. Radiantspren don’t make oaths; their KR do. The KR oaths bond them to their spren. That’s why I read the Stormfather as saying, “Oaths mark the relationship between men and true spren.” “Beasts and subspren” also bond symbiotically, just not through oaths. @Calderis, I noticed you say in another thread that bonds are central to the cosmere, not just to Roshar. I understand why you think bonds are Roshar’s Focus. Can you point me to a post where you lay out your cosmere-wide bond theory? If not, perhaps you can begin a topic or state that theory here? I’d find it helpful if you can also define what “bond” means to you. Thanks!

@bookspren, I agree with your view of Roshar’s objective reality. As @Yata says and Kaladin observes, listeners are more honorable than humans. But IMO the Stormfather presents a racist attitude, not reality. (Great name, btw.) I interpret this to mean “true spren” are Radiantspren, the only spren that bond with “men” through oaths (other than maybe the godspren themselves). Because listeners don’t bond through oaths, the Stormfather calls them “beasts.” That’s classic racist propaganda. Even the phrase “subspren” IMO is offensive, in the same way being called “subhuman” is. Dalinar himself puzzles over the Stormfather’s “extreme opinion”: @Yata, it is a pleasure seeing you again! I hope we can be friends even when we disagree. I agree the Stormfather means oaths “make the difference between Humans and Beasts.” I think in some ways his comment is even worse if he does refer to mundane oaths rather than magical. Non-human listeners make oaths and promises to one another. Yet the Stormfather considers listeners “beasts” because their oaths don’t bind their spren. You make a great point about how the Stormfather treated Eshonai. Two possible explanations: 1. Odium may have Invested the Stormfather after that scene, when highstorm met Everstorm. Syl says the Stormfather is “broken.” Those cracks in his soul may have allowed Odium’s Investiture to enter him during the “Battle of the Storms.” 2. Eshonai already had an incipient bond with the comet spren. Maybe this made her a “man” to the Stormfather. I’ve always though it odd the Stormfather allowed Eshonai to bond a voidspren. He calls oaths “The mark of intelligence, free will, and choice.” Yet not once does the Stormfather refuse a requested bond. He gives me this feeling of “Okay, if you insist…” I understand he intends his comment to refer to “men.” But does the Stormfather himself have free will?

Since this thread refuses to die, I’ll consolidate my “theory” limericks here. These are the summaries of my “Magic System Components” posts. I’ve linked the posts themselves for context. General Theory All systems have Fuel and are Focused. Shards added a User and Catalyst. Mortals now can direct Their own magic effect, Like becoming a soul-forging analyst. Fuel Each system is powered by Fuel Without which no magic can do. Fuel’s usually Physical, But sometimes it’s Spiritual, Since Catalysts bring power too. Focus A Focus determines which power Is available and in what manner. Each Focus is linked To one power, I think, And Khriss calls this process “an Investiture.” User Only sapient beings are Users. Their mind directs magic and chooses The magic’s effect, And what they select Through their Spiritweb outpours and oozes. Catalyst A “Catalyst” this substance Khriss calls, For Shard power a Catalyst installs. Composed of Shard essence, Its heated tumescence Adds energy to break through Realm walls. Lines 9-10 of Yeats’ “Leda and the Swan” inspired the last two lines of this limerick. That sonnet describes how Zeus, in the form of a swan, assaulted Leda, who birthed Helen of Troy and the Trojan War.

For my 300th post, I want to thank the administrators, moderators, and each of you who keep this place alive and interesting and fun. I think of Brandon as more of a mystery writer than a fantasy writer because of how he drops clues and maintains suspense. The Shard is the best place there is to puzzle through the cosmere’s mysteries. I’ll soon begin my “normal programming.” But I wanted to use this opportunity for something different. Best regards to all of you!

Scadrial shows us class warfare. Sel shows us religious warfare. I think Roshar shows us race warfare. I read the Stormfather’s statement as one of racial superiority and arrogance towards the listeners. The Stormfather believes only “beasts” bond with “subspren,” presumably pre-Shattering sentient spren. Oaths are not involved in such bonds. The Stormfather claims non-oath bonds don’t require “intelligence, free will, and choice.” While his statement also refers to greatshells, skyeels and other native lifeforms that bond spren, I believe listeners are his target, since the Stormfather lumps all “beasts and subspren” together. He sneers at non-sapient spren and the “beasts” they bond with. Maybe Honor imparted a sense of racial superiority to the Stormfather through his cognitive shadow. Maybe humans personified the Stormfather to embody this attitude. But I think Odium “corrupted” the Stormfather. This is a “hateful” attitude. I believe Odium somehow inserted his Investiture into the Stormfather to effect subtle changes in his makeup. There’s only scant evidence for this. Syl calls the Stormfather “broken,” although that can mean many things. We have examples of voidspren “corrupting” other spren. Brandon says, “many of these spren have that kind of ‘hole’ in them, and that’s what allows Odium to take control of them.” I agree with @zandi that the “Fleet” chapter (WoR, Chapter 59) foreshadows the SLA ending. This also provides some evidence of Odium’s corruption of the Stormfather. I think Kaladin’s race with the “storm” (never identified as a highstorm) is the true duel between Honor’s and Odium’s champion. (I think Dalinar’s belief he’s seen “Odium’s champion” may be wrong.) Kaladin races the storm into Shinovar, where it loses its Investiture (including Odium’s), and becomes "normal" again. I don’t know why Kaladin would have raced the storm to his death and resurrection (assuming this is the ending foreshadowed) unless the race ensured Roshar’s survival. My main point, though, is that the Stormfather expresses an attitude that leads to division and hatred. He expresses Odium’s attitude, not Honor’s. It is the attitude that leads to racial warfare and genocide, as we see on Roshar.

I agree. We call the Stormfather and the Nightwatcher “godspren” for a reason. “God” is a complex idea. I speculate these spren originally personified pre-Shattering gods of storms and the earth (or some such deities). Their complexity is why I think such spren had to await sapient populations before they formed. I also agree with @Cowmanthethird that, instead, a “massive” unnamed splinter originally distributed Stormlight. This splinter hadn’t yet been personified into a spren. Brandon talks about the difference between splinters and spren here. Your Roshar model can still be correct whether or not the Stormfather as godspren existed from the beginning. (That’s why my earlier post says these are quibbles and not a big deal.) I agree. Sentience precedes sapience. As species develop, their capacities grow. Spren that personify fire, wind, and life probably came into existence with the earliest sentient life. Even now, however, I think greatshells and listeners bond with sentient, not sapient, spren for their changes. IOW, pre-Shattering sentient spren caused the species’ evolution to sapience. Once there, these species’ can conceive and personify “god,” creating the pre-Shattering versions of godspren. It's unsurprising humans found their way to Roshar pre-Shattering, but I don’t fully credit this paraphrased WoB. Memory and misinterpretation can easily translate “people” into “humans.” People – sapient species like Aimians and listeners – certainly existed on Roshar then. Regardless, humans would have lacked sufficient numbers then to much impinge on the other species’ collective mind. I also appreciate the level of your conviction… Ha! Not my ambition, especially when hardly anyone agrees with my theories. During my tenure here, I do average almost a post per week. I guess it’s true I post essays. I like to think things through and document my views. That takes space and time. I truly believe if people read my theories carefully and with an open mind, they might find a lot that makes sense – or at least gets them thinking in different directions. I think each planet’s inherent Investiture and original “design” limit what might serve as a Focus there. The Shards adapted existing magic to form their magic systems, choosing a Focus consistent with the planet’s inherent Investiture and design. This sounds to me like Focuses develop from an interaction between the planet and the Shard, as you propose. I do think the planetary component precludes Shards who share planets to choose their own Focuses independent of the other resident Shard(s). I explain what I think each planet’s original magic was in my Pre-Shattering Magic post. On Sel, Adonalsium Invested the ground. On Roshar, he Invested the highstorms. On Nalthis, he Invested electromagnetic radiation. On Taldain, he Invested the oceans. Sel’s Focus is forms because the Shards IMO added their Investitures to the Investiture Adonalsium left in the ground. Shard Investiture turned topographic features rooted in the ground into the magical language that could direct and Focus the Dor. Their splintering fragmented the initial system, but I think that just created Focus “sub-types,” as you put it. Roshar’s Focus is spren (IMO) because Adonalsium’s “touch and design” makes Roshar Realmically-permeable. Power leaks into Roshar’s Cognitive Realm and Invests ideas before the power passes into the Physical Realm. Khriss says Shard Investiture “expanded” this spren-based system to, among other things, create Radiantspren as Surgebinding’s Focus (IMO). Nalthis’ Focus is its visualized commands, with emphasis on the visualization. I think this grows out of Nalthis’ original “quantum physics” design that I describe in the “Pre-Shattering Magic” post. Awakeners’ visualization IMO calls to mind “Schrodinger’s cat” and the ardents’ WoK experiment that fixes the length of firespren: only when an object is observed (and Cognitively “imprinted”) can its actual state be known. To imprint behavior onto the Breath of an Awakened object, Awakeners must visualize how they want the object to behave. Brandon says commands are “like your mind reaching into the Spiritual Realm and you have to like conceive something.” Taldain’s Focus is unknown. I speculate it’s an Autonomy splinter that attaches itself to the Sand Master. I further speculate the splinter chooses its host based on the host’s degree of self-reliance. I suspect this splinter resembles Radiantspren and Divine Breath, which also choose a host based on character. Please note this is raw speculation without much evidence. I think Ruin and Preservation’s Investiture and design of Scadrial acts the same toward later Shard arrivals. As Brandon says, Odium (and implicitly Trell) would have to substantially Invest Scadrial to influence its magic. He notes Scadrians already have an Identity tied to current Scadrial. Brandon calls Scadrial’s magic “goofy” because Scadrial is composed solely of Ruin and Preservation. The theory doesn’t have to address “the weirdness with the groupings.” IMO, those groupings are irrelevant to the issue of Focus. IMO, Hemalurgy would observe the “one Focus per power” rule even if it could transfer all innate Investitures of every kind all at once, whether Physical, Cognitive or Spiritual. Focus is a function of the Hemalurgical power itself and how Ruin chooses to implement it, not the abilities Hemalurgy conveys to the target. FWIW, the distinction between Shard power and other Investitures underlies all my theories and causes me the most difficulties in my Forum debates. “Power,” “true Investiture,” “the godly powers,” “the energy of Shards” – whatever name you want to call it – is IMO different from the specialized Investitures power creates on each planet. Preservation’s power created Allomancy, which relies on the Allomantic gene’s specialized Investiture to work. Preservation’s and Ruin’s combined power created Feruchemy, which relies on the Feruchemical gene’s specialized Investiture to work. Ruin’s power created Hemalurgy, which relies on Ruin’s expression of the Hemalurgical power to work. Innate Investiture is what Hemalurgy works on. Innate Investiture confers magical abilities, but is not power itself. It is the Focused expression of power, a specialized type of Investiture. (Redundancy is why my posts are so long…) Fair enough. “Hema” makes it Ruin’s. IMO, Shai’s Soul Forgery and Shallan’s Lightweaving use the same “soul transformation” power. I take your point. I add only that IMO other Shards all have the same ability to transfer innate Investiture, but use different means. That where the interaction of Shard and Shardworld becomes important, defining the limits of a Shard’s expression of its power on a Shardworld. Brandon says Shards may choose not to use a power because the Shard-Shardworld constraints make it too Investiture-costly for them to want to. You’re very welcome! And an upvote to you for politeness and sheer persistence!

Hmmmm…. This thread discusses a lot of interesting topics. Very informative and entertaining – exactly what the 17th Shard should be! Hemalurgy’s Focus I think there’s a difference between the Hemalurgical power and Allomantic and Feruchemical abilities. IMO, Hemalurgy is not, as @The One Who Connects puts it, a "’same metal, multiple powers’ thing.” The only Shard power involved in Hemalurgy IMO is the power to transfer innate Investiture from one person to another. Different Hemalurgical metals Focus the Hemalurgical power to transfer different grouped abilities. For Focus purposes, I don’t think it matters that the metals transfer related abilities in groups. Those abilities stem from the victim’s innate Investiture and not the Hemalurgical power. That innate Investiture doesn’t need to be Focused. The power to transfer that innate Investiture does. Brandon says (somewhere) that Hemalurgy is as much art as magic. IIRC, the art inheres in the knowledge of where to place the spikes. I agree with consensus that spike-placement (in both victim and target) determines the target’s abilities based on the transferred innate Investiture. But I think the metal-Focused Hemalurgical power first must make the spike capable of capturing and transferring the innate Investiture that grants those abilities. On a related issue, I think the Hemalurgical power is available to every Shard. This WoB states Spiritual Realm powers are not of the Shards, but are “simply tools.” Shard Mandates (intents) determine how that power is accessed and expressed. Violent metal spikes are Ruin’s expression of Hemalurgy. It’s available anywhere because of its metal Focus. Other Shards IMO also use the Hemalurgical power, but in their own way. I think simple Breath transfers are a benign form of Hemalurgy consistent with Endowment’s life-giving Mandate. One person passes his Breath, his innate Investiture, to another. I think Voidbringing (not Voidbinding) utilizes Odium’s form of Hemalurgy (a topic for another day). Pre- and Post-Shattering Roshar I have some quibbles (nothing big) with @Calderis’ analysis of Roshar's magical history. Khriss describes Roshar’s current magic as an “expansion” of its pre-Shattering spren-based magic. There are, nevertheless, some differences in the Investitures and spren available on Roshar pre- and post-Shattering. The “Investiture of Adonalsium” created Roshar as it originally was. That Investiture didn’t “interact” with Roshar; it built Roshar. IMO, everything Adonalsium created is “natural” simply because he created it. I think there is a “natural form of Stormlight” (by whatever name) without Honor’s Investiture. Shards later “interacted” with the Roshar Adonalsium created, and they changed things. Do you mean the Stormfather always existed? If so, I disagree. Spren are personified ideas. I think Roshar needs a sapient population capable of personification before splinters can become spren. That means spren can’t form until greatshells, Aimians and listeners reach the top of the evolutionary ladder. Their collective minds then personify the highstorms into the Rider of Storms (not the Stormfather). Roshar’s Investiture always existed, but I don’t think it formed itself into spren at the beginning. I do agree Roshar’s “natural laws” made spren development possible, even inevitable. I also agree Stormlight (as constituted both pre- and post-Shattering) is critical to Roshar’s evolution. But spren IMO reflect evolutionary development rather than cause it. I think local lifeforms must first develop sapience for spren to appear. The Rider of Storms predates the current system, not the Stormfather. As a splinter of Adonalsium’s Investiture, the Rider may not act like the Stormfather. Stormlight now includes Honor’s Mandated Investiture. Maybe the Rider of Storms was a Dawnshard that could bind both voidish and mortal? (Another topic.) We don’t know. I think human migration and Honor’s Investiture in Roshar converted the Rider of Storms into the Stormfather. Humans personify the highstorms differently from the listeners. Honor has made the highstorms into his perpendicularity. As Spiritual Realm Investiture passes through the Cognitive Realm’s Stormfather into Roshar’s Physical Realm, Stormlight IMO becomes Honor-laden, changing Roshar’s ecosystem from how it was pre-Shattering. I also think, Calderis, your analysis may undermine your bond-Focus theory. The Stormfather turns raw, “consistent” Spiritual Realm Investiture – Shard power – into Stormlight, a unique form of local Investiture. I call that operation “Focusing” power, distilling it from the general to the specific. That suggests a spren – the Stormfather – is Stormlight’s Focus. Housekeeping and Forum Etiquette @The One Who Connects, thanks for referring to 3 of my posts! Heady stuff! I think the only other time a poster quoted a post from a different thread, they inadvertently – and wrongly – cited me as authority against myself! (That was unusual...) Does this mean I’m one of the “’big names’ on here” now? (JK.) Like @Cowmanthethird, I’ve felt heat from those who are “frustrated” at “being right/knowing what we're talking about” who must deal with the less enlightened. I’ve been on the other side too and come across more “overconfident” than I intended…perhaps even in this post. That can be off-putting. I value your thoughts about this and your willingness to share them. It’s a reminder that outliers and different drummers have feelings too.

Calderis, I also think “R&P fully created Scadrial from nothing.” Did I miss something? Here’s my understanding, and I welcome text or WoB correction: 1. Adonalsium creates the cosmere. Pre-Shattering, the Physical Realm consists entirely of his essence. IIRC, Brandon has never fully defined “essence.” I define it as “raw power” that's been converted into some other substance, whether matter, energy or another form of Investiture. 2. Adonalsium Shatters and the Vessels assume his power. Ruin and Preservation, alone among the Shards, go off to make something entirely new – Scadrial. This WoB states Scadrial is “goofy” for that reason. 3. Scadrial consists 100% of Ruin and Preservtation’s essence, their power converted into that planet. I think they didn’t so much use “existing materials” as conform Scadrial to the same physical/chemical structure as existing materials. Otherwise, Scadrial wouldn’t be 100% Shard essence. 4. Brandon says Scadrial is less heavily Invested than most planets, not “more strongly invested than normal.” Calderis, in response to your “agreement to disagree” post above: Calderis and I disagree In how we read this WoB I value debate But Words rarely relate To the “truth” that we each think we see. Most things are subject to interpretation. Thanks for continuing the conversation.

I think Sadeas is Odium’s champion. He’s the best representative of the Thrill, as foreshadowed by his musings after acquiring Oathbringer. He once was an excellent duelist. I’ve long believed the Heralds are spren that personify their Divine Attributes. The Investiture in Honorblades is like the Divine Breath that resurrects a Returned. On Roshar, that Investiture manifests as spren. I think the Heralds “return” by taking over someone’s body who shares their attributes. IMO, that was the model for Radiantspren bonding. I believe the sapient Unmade are Odium’s version of the Heralds (and Returned). They are the souls of the listener gods, and they take over (“unmake”) dead bodies. I suspect those dead souls must also show an affinity for the Unmade who possesses them. That’s why I think Sadeas with the “familiar eyes” is a good candidate for the Odiumspren who personifies the Thrill. Since Honor foresaw Kholinar’s destruction, he could easily have foreseen Sadeas’ role in it.

Allomancy CAN "burn straight Investiture without destroying the physical body." Vin burned the mists when she took on TLR. She didn't vaporize then, because she took in less of the mists than she did when she ascended. Again, all Catalysts are made from Shard essence. Because Scadrial is made only from Shard essence - and metals are Preservation's "concentrated essence" - metals suffice there. But elsewhere, where Adonalsium's essence predominates, the super-fuel of Shard essence is found in the Shard Investitures themselves, the only distinct part of their "bodies" on those planets.

Now I'm confused (pun unintended). This sounds like you agree with me. Yes, "Stormlight is like burning the mists." Exactly! When you burn the mists on Scadrial, you vaporize because the power is Investing you directly rather than through the metal Focus. There's nothing to slow down or restrict the power flow. Also, Vin kept burning the mists, Investing herself with lots of power. I believe that's how all Catalysts work. The difference on the other Major Shardworlds is, as you say, their system designs limit how much power a User can access. Surgebinders can infuse only so much Stormlight, and it's either consumed or dissipates. Sand Masters can only dehydrate so much. Sel's forms as Focuses automatically limit the Dor's flow. And I believe (but am not sure) that there is a relationship between the number of Breaths one holds and the amount of Invested EMR one can drain that protects the Awakener from vaporization. If that's what you're saying, then we agree.

Thanks, @Shig, for your kind comments, but I'm not sure what you're saying. I wasn't stating an analogy - I tried to describe how I think the magic actually works. I don't think Shallan "pushes Stormlight out through Pattern." Rather, I think Pattern is the Focus through which Lightweaving's power Invests Shallan. Pattern does enable Shallan to process Stormlight and consume it. IMO, her consumption of Stormlight - Surgebinding's Catalyst - causes the Lightweaving power to Invest her. She then decides how she wants to use that power. In practice, all these things may occur near simultaneously. But conceptually, Shallan is the one who decides how she will use her power. Pattern (and every Focus) gives her the tool she needs to do that.

Thanks, @FiveLate, for your comments. I agree with everything you say. Here's my response to a similar comment by @Calderis in the "General Theory" thread: You and @FiveLate think this is important. To me, we’re back to Juliet’s lament from the balcony: “What’s in a name?” Regardless of whether Catalysts behave like chemical “catalysts,” Khriss/Brandon gave that name to the substance that fulfills the power-summoning function. That’s good enough for me. You also say I haven't considered some things about Nalthis and its EMR Catalyst. I'd like to hear your thoughts on that. Do check out the Nalthis discussion in my Pre-Shattering Magic post. Thanks!

Thanks, @Calderis, for your thoughts. Catalyst Ironically, I edited out the following language from the “Catalysts” post: You and @FiveLate think this is important. To me, we’re back to Juliet’s lament from the balcony: “What’s in a name?” Regardless of whether Catalysts behave like chemical “catalysts,” Khriss/Brandon gave that name to the substance that fulfills the power-summoning function. That’s good enough for me. I agree. I think only Fuel and Focus are constants among magic systems. But I also think Catalysts are the sole means by which Users can access Shard power to direct some magical effect. Catalysts IMO are a necessary component of the Catalytic systems. Awakening I agree with your first sentence. As to the second, none of us “knows” what causes color drain. I’ve presented a plausible explanation that’s consistent with my general theory of magic systems. My Pre-Shattering Magic post goes into more detail about Adonalsium’s inherent Nalthian magic system – IMO a quantum physics system based on photons. I do think my explanation for both simple Breath transfers and actual Awakening accounts for the known phenomena on Nalthis. My theory distinguishes between “Fuel” and “fuel.” The former is Investiture that causes the magic, and the latter is Investiture (or metal) that is consumed to add energy to the magical process or otherwise to ensure compliance with thermodynamics. I believe the “Fuel” for the Catalytic systems is Shard power, and their “fuel” is the Catalyst. I believe the “Fuel” in the other systems is a form of local Shardworld Investiture (like a Feruchemist’s internal Investiture), and the “fuel” is the Shard power that “facilitates” the magical process. I explain why in the Fuel post. You’ll have to explain to me the relevance of Fuel as “gaseous Investiture.” I know Brandon describes the properties of different states of Investiture, but I don’t know why Fuel must be in one state or another. I agree Breath can be “merely transferred” to an object, with a command (“My Breath is yours”) but no requested action or “drain.” As you say, there’s no color drain because it’s a simple transfer – you’re not animating the object, just storing Breaths in the object (or another person). Actual Awakening does require the “color” drain. That’s because IMO Awakening, unlike Breath transfer, is Fueled by Endowment’s power. The “color” drain – which I think is the drain of absorbed EMR, not reflected EMR (color) – is Awakening’s Catalyst that summons that power. There is a color “shift” from simple Breath transfers. The change in Breaths in each person lowers the transferor’s Heightening and raises the transferee’s Heightening. IMO, that’s a different phenomenon from Awakening’s “color” drain. You might want to look again at my comments about “Identity and Awakening” in the User post. I think it adds something to this discussion. Surgebinding Let’s start with the Focus. I know you’ve had many discussions on this one. As my post says, I don’t think it matters much, but am happy to engage a bit on this issue. I agree the Nahel bond is symbiotic. IMO, the difference between “bonds” and other forms of Connections is the reciprocal nature of bonds – they are mutual Connections where both sides benefit. Otherwise, there is nothing special about Roshar’s bonds – the Returned are attached to their Divine Breath, but that Breath gets no known benefit from the Returned. I believe Honor’s Mandate (intent) is “bonding.” Like the nature of “honor” itself, the benefits and burdens of bonding are mutual. Thus, by acknowledging that a fabrial spren “gains nothing” from the fabrial, you acknowledge that the spren can be Connected to the fabrial, but can’t be bonded to it. Honor’s bonds IMO form reciprocal, mutually beneficial relationships. Your model predicts a different bond for each spren type. But spren are the personifications of Roshar’s Surges, how Roshar’s sapient populations perceive the Spiritual Realm powers. Each spren is the embodiment of a different power, that power’s “essence.” Why would a pre-Shattering spren, the essence of a single power, need a unique bond to express that power? That seems unnecessarily complicated. Odium’s Investiture IMO doesn’t bond at all. Hate corrodes and divides; it does not form relationships. I think Odium’s Mandate (intent) is to sever Connections. IMO, it’s the opposite of bonding. The best evidence of this Mandate is what Odium’s magic produces – a void, the great emptiness that’s left when all Connections sever. Dalinar’s last WoK vision shows this void. We don’t know yet how Voidbinding works, but I suspect it’s a necromantic magic that attaches to dead bodies, binding the “void” created by the absence of life. I believe Odium’s Investiture “unmakes” the dead bodies’ souls. With no bonds, only the voidspren themselves can Focus Odium’s power. You previously asserted “bondage” as an example of a Focus-bond for both fabrials and Odium’s “slaves.” How would that work if bonds are supposed to be reciprocal? Since Odium doesn’t (can’t) bond, then under the “one Focus type per planet” rule, bonds can’t be Roshar’s Focus. My 2 cents on a beaten-to-death subject…. Now let’s discuss Stormlight as Catalyst. Brandon states the cosmere has certain “unifying laws.” IMO, all magic systems of a type should run on the same “unifying laws.” If one system Fueled by Shard power has a Catalyst, then all such systems should. Khriss clearly and canonically states that both Allomancy and Sand Mastery use a metal and water Catalyst, respectively. These Catalysts don’t convert to power, they summon power. Your comparison of Surgebinding and Allomancy is apt. Just like metals, “You hold [Stormlight], you spend it in Surgebinding, and if you don’t have enough, you can’t do what you want.” You conclude Stormlight is a “straight forward fuel source.” Yet you don’t conclude that about metals, though every one of your statements is equally true of metals. I presume that’s because we know metals are not Investiture. But both metals and Stormlight (and other Catalysts) are composed of Shard “essence.” I believe metals are 100% Preservation’s essence, incapable of decay (other than through oxidation and radioactivity). That’s why they can be Allomancy’s Catalyst. Other Major Shardworlds are mostly Adonalsium essence, with Shard essence inserted into the local Investitures. IMO, mortals can’t use the non-Investiture essence on these Shardworlds (like rocks or trees or animals) as Catalysts, because that’s Adonalsium essence. But mortals can use Shard essence as “super-fuel for any of the powers.” I believe Shard essence is concentrated in the local Investitures. These Investitures are IMO the Catalysts for these magic systems: Stormlight, and Invested water, EMR and ground. Sel Sel was all one system once. The Shards’ splintering and dumping into the Cognitive Realm balkanized that system, but its remnants remain in every mini-system. One such remnant IMO is the Investiture Adonalsium first placed in the ground that the Shards later supplemented. I think AonDor differs from the other Selish systems because of its dependence on the Focus Aon Rao. IMO, as I describe in the OP, Sel’s ground Investiture Catalyzed Raoden’s completion of that Aon. Otherwise, he could have simply drawn the correct form in the air with the same Dor-infusing effect and saved himself the trouble of running around. But he didn’t and, IMO, couldn’t. As long as Aon Rao Focuses power into Elantris, further catalysis is unnecessary. The Dor-infused Elantrians can draw Aons as they choose. In TES, Shai applies squid ink to each of her soulstamps. The Bloodsealer applies Shai’s blood to his stamps. I think Dakhor Dor is catalyzed by the Investiture in the monks’ bones. These organic substances – squid ink, blood and bone – IMO each hold Investiture that’s leached from the ground into the food chain. I believe Selish Users consume those organic materials to Catalyze the Dor’s Investiture of them. Thanks, again, @Calderis, for your comments. If you don’t mind, I have two quick personal questions for you (and understand if you don’t want to answer): Does “Calderis” refer to your proximity to Crater Lake (a caldera), and are you a Reed College grad? I ask the latter question because of a feeling I’ve gotten from some of your posts. * * * * * @john203, good question! It took both @Calderis and @Oversleep to convince me Hemalurgy is an actual magic system! I agree with your observation that it’s a non-Catalytic “people with magic” system. Thus, the Fuel should be local Investiture. I speculate the Investiture Spiritually held in the transferor’s blood is the Fuel; hence, “Hema”-lurgy. It keeps the spiked innate Investiture from decaying too quickly as the spike moves from victim to target. Without the blood, I believe the transfer wouldn’t work. Normally such systems IMO also use a “fuel” that’s consumed to add energy to the magical process. In other non-Catalytic systems, this “fuel” is a “facilitating” Shard power. But Hemalurgy is an “end-negative” magic system. I believe there still is some “fuel,” some power that adds energy to the process for Hemalurgy to work, just to be consistent with other non-Catalytic systems...the “unifying laws” again. That added energy apparently isn’t enough to offset Hemalurgy’s power loss, though.

I suggest you read Magic System Components – General Theory before reading this post. Introduction I theorize “Catalysts” are substances Users consume to Invest themselves with Shard “power.” IMO “power” is Spiritual Realm Investiture that’s not part of a Spiritweb – the cosmere’s Spiritual energy. I believe Catalysts cause the User himself to become an Invested object capable of directing the power that infuses him. I believe cosmere Catalysts add energy to the magical process. This energy breaks down the Realmic barriers or otherwise creates a conduit between Realms. Catalysts are a form of lower case “fuel” in their systems. Catalysts are the least common magical component, and IMO give mortals access to the cosmere’s most powerful magic. Allomancy, AonDor, Awakening, and Surgebinding are examples of Catalytic systems. I believe only these systems rely on Shard power as Fuel. For that reason, I think only Catalytic systems allow mortals to change Spiritwebs other than their own souls. What Is a Catalyst Here’s what Khriss says about Allomancy’s metal Catalyst (BoM Ars Arcanum – “On the Three Metallic Arts – Allomancy”) (emphasis added): Khriss uses the word “catalyst” to distinguish the “consumed metal” from the “power itself” that doesn’t come from the metal. She then compares metal with the Selish “form-based Investitures.” This comparison suggests Khriss views metal as a Focus, like Sel’s forms, despite calling metal a “catalyst.” Focus and Catalyst do coincide in metals, but these components don’t seem to coincide in the other magic systems. As I detail below, I think each non-metal Catalyst is a form of its Shardworld’s local Investiture – Stormlight, Invested body water, Invested electromagnetic radiation (EMR), and Invested ground. None of these Investitures are their planet’s Focus. Metals and these local Investitures share a common source – each is the “essence” of a Shard’s power – a “pathway to power” in Marasi’s words (BoM, Chapter 28, Kindle p. 359). IMO Users consume each substance, each Shard’s “essence,” to build this “pathway to power” in every Catalytic magic system. Why Catalysts Work I believe this WoB helps explain the idea of Catalyst: Here’s what I find interesting about this often-quoted statement: 1. I think Vin substitutes the mists for metals. “Vin burns the mists…to fuel Allomancy.” This “super-fuel” causes so much power to Invest her that her body vaporizes. That’s one function of a Focus – to limit the power flow a Catalyst summons. 2. Brandon equates the mists with “the essence of Preservation.” I interpret this to mean that Physical Realm Investiture like the mists is a Shard’s magical “essence.” 3. Brandon says a Shard’s essence “can act as super-fuel for…any of the powers.” IOW, consuming Physical Realm Investiture itself can “fuel” any magic anywhere (subject to the User’s Identity). 4. Scadrial is the only planet without Adonalsium Investiture. It is also the only planet that uses a non-Investiture substance, metals, as its Catalyst. Marasi describes metals as Preservation’s “Concentrated essence.” (BoM, Chapter 28, Kindle p. 359.) IMO, this is because Scadrial, unlike every other planet, is made entirely from Shard essence, including the metals. I believe, based on this WoB, that Adonalsium’s essence dominates the other Major Shardworlds. (I also think the reference to Preservation’s “Concentrated essence” – as opposed to the above quote’s “condensed” essence – means metals don’t contain any Ruin essence. Some metals may rust, but the non-oxidizing, non-radioactive ones don’t “decay.”) 5. We know Adonalsium left “inherent Investiture” on each planet other than Scadrial. IMO, Shards later Invested the same substance on each planet that already held Adonalsium’s inherent Investiture. I think these are Roshar’s highstorms, Taldain’s irradiated oceans, Nalthis’ EMR, and Sel’s ground. I think that’s what Brandon means when he says the “interaction between Shards and Shardworlds” creates the unique magic systems of the Major Shardworlds. The Shards adapted to their Shardworld and the magic that already existed there, the “inherent” magic built into each planet’s soul. 6. I believe the Investiture in Roshar’s highstorms, Taldain’s irradiated oceans, Nalthis’ EMR, and Sel’s ground are those planets’ Catalysts – the “condensed essence” of Shard power that can “super-fuel” any magic. IMO, these substances mingle Adonalsium’s inherent Investiture and Shard Investiture. Major Shardworld Catalysts The following discussion is based on my (now much edited) post, “Pre-Shattering Magic.” For additional information on this topic, please look at that post. Roshar’s Invested Highstorms. Surgebinders consume Stormlight to perform Surgebinding, but I believe Stormlight doesn’t make the magic. Rather, like metals, I believe Stormlight is a Catalyst that causes Honor/Cultivation’s power to Invest Surgebinders. Surgebinders then direct the power (Focused through their Radiantspren IMO) to Windrun, Regrow, or Lightweave how and when they choose. I believe Honor Invested Roshar’s highstorms, but highstorms already held Adonalsium’s Investiture. The main evidence is the listeners’ pre-Shattering Rider of Storms. Highstorms are “natural” on Roshar, meaning Adonalsium created them. Pre-Shattering spren types still exist on Roshar, showing Adonalsium’s ongoing magical influence. Taldain’s Invested Oceans. Khriss says Sand Masters use “water from their own bodies to forge a brief Cognitive bond. They can draw Investiture…directly from the Spiritual Realm, and use that to control the sand.” (AU, Taldain Essay, Kindle p. 369.) IOW, a Sand Master’s body water is the Catalyst for drawing Autonomy’s power from the Spiritual Realm. I theorize Taldain’s oceans hold Adonalsium’s inherent Investiture. Taldain’s natural Water Cycle (Evaporation-Condensation-Precipitation, etc.) circulates that Investiture throughout the ecosystem and into human lungs and stomachs. Autonomy’s Investiture, held in the larger sun, begins the Water Cycle by irradiating and evaporating Taldain’s oceans. IMO, that mingles the two Investitures. Sand Masters dehydrate as they consume that Invested body water to summon power and “control the sand” (or rather, the lichen in the sand). Nalthis’ Invested EMR. I think Awakening’s Catalyst is the EMR colored objects absorb. IMO, Nalthis’ EMR holds both Adonalsium’s and Endowment’s Investiture. “Draining color” withdraws the absorbed Investiture from the colored object. Awakeners can easily “drain” black (fully absorbed EMR), but cannot drain white (fully reflected EMR). This Investiture withdrawal causes colored objects to turn gray, just like a Shardblade-severed limb that’s lost its connection to the soul. I believe Endowment Invested the Tears of Edgli to restrict reflected EMR (color) to a narrow spectrum. The vivid, saturated color marks dyed objects as portable repositories of Investiture. The broader remaining spectrum holds most of the colored object’s absorbed EMR for “draining.” Sel’s Invested Ground. I believe Devotion and Dominion created their landscape-based magical language because Adonalsium placed Sel’s inherent Investiture in its ground. I think Sel’s Catalyst is this ground Investiture. IMO, the ground Investiture leaches into the surrounding ecosystem and its lifeforms, like what happens at Patji’s Eye. Shai uses squid ink for her soulstamps. The Bloodsealer uses Shai’s blood. Dakhor monks transform their bones. Each Selish User IMO consumes some substance imbued with Sel’s ground Investiture to Catalyze the Dor’s Investiture of them. I think Sel’s ground Investiture Catalyzes Raoden’s completion of Aon Rao. As a Reod Elantrian, Raoden couldn’t draw any other lasting Aons. Yet he drew this one with a stick. I think it’s because the ground he drew on held the Investiture that Catalyzed the Dor’s infusion of Elantris and Elantrians. As long as Aon Rao retains its shape as a Focus, the Dor will continue to infuse Elantris. The “mostly Spiritual” Elantrians can then draw their own Aons to use the Dor as needed. One counter is that Elantris doesn’t work unless Aon Rao is complete. Thus, Elantrians couldn’t draw Aons until Aon Rao Focused the Dor into Elantris. That’s true. But Raoden could have drawn a perfectly shaped Aon Rao in the air, and I believe nothing permanent would have happened. Otherwise, he would have simply done so. I think Raoden had to draw Aon Rao on the ground for the Dor to Invest Elantris because ground Investiture is needed to Catalyze the Dor’s Investiture of the city. (I predict we’ll discover a Fjordell form drawn on the ground that amplifies Dakhor power at the monastery.) Speculation About Adonalsium’s Investiture I wonder whether non-metal Catalysts must use both Adonalsium and Shard Investiture to work properly or whether it matters? The non-Scadrial Major Shardworlds are mostly comprised of Adonalsium, who created them. The Shards later Investitures conformed to the constraints Adonalsium’s magic imposed. I think the Shards could modify his existing systems, but couldn’t supplant those systems. Each non-metal Catalyst mingles Adonalsium and Shard Investiture. That may be coincidental, a natural outgrowth of the “Shard-Shardworld interactions,” but maybe not. The Shards already Fueled systems with their power; perhaps they wanted Adonalsium to contribute the bulk of the Catalyst? Maybe it’s unimportant, but who knows. Conclusion A “Catalyst” this substance Khriss calls, For Shard power a Catalyst installs. Composed of Shard essence, Its heated tumescence Adds energy to break through Realm walls. (Inspired by W.B. Yeats’ sonnet, “Leda and the Swan,” particularly lines 9-10.) That’s the last limerick, @Calderis. Great respect! You’re a terrific wordsmith with a terrific ear. Thanks for bringing limericks to the Shard! You can read the other magic component posts at General Theory, Fuel, User, and Focus. Regards!

I suggest you read Magic System Components – General Theory before reading this post. I follow current convention in defining “Fuel” as the power or local Investiture that causes a magical effect. Capital “F” Fuel is thus akin to a magical engine. It differs from small “f” fuel, which is a substance consumed to add energy to that engine, like gasoline adds energy to a car. I believe Shard power “fuels” the non-Catalytic magic systems, and Catalysts “fuel” the Catalytic systems, in this small “f” sense. (Again, I think Shard “power” is Spiritual Realm Investiture not part of a Spiritweb – the cosmere’s Spiritual energy.) Feruchemy may provide the clearest example of this difference. Brandon says a Feruchemist’s Internal Investiture alone causes Feruchemy’s magical effect – time-shifting attributes: I interpret this to mean a Feruchemist’s Feruchemical gene – his internal Investiture – is the Feruchemist’s magical engine, his Fuel, the Investiture that causes the magical effect. But Brandon also says this: Brandon says power is “how I’m dealing with things like the laws of thermodynamics.” Even in the first quote above, he describes Spiritual Realm “energy” as “my get-out for the laws of thermodynamics.” I read these statements to mean the cosmere is not magically frictionless. A Feruchemist can’t keep whole his internal Investiture if he also uses that Investiture as the “facilitating power.” I think Feruchemy needs “a little bit” of power just to keep the Feruchemist’s internal Investiture “end-neutral” and the magical transaction thermodynamically sound. This power is “fuel,” because it lends Spiritual energy to the magical transaction, but it is not “Fuel” because it does not cause the magical effect. The internal Feruchemical gene alone causes the magical effect, a form of local Shardworld Investiture. I think local Shardworld Investiture causes the magical effect of every non-Catalytic system, whether such systems are “interactions with nature” or “people with magic.” Local Investiture is their Fuel, though Shard power remains their “fuel.” Power as “fuel” replaces any local Investiture used to achieve the magical effect or otherwise “facilitates” the magical effect. Power thus ensures compliance with the cosmere’s thermodynamic laws even when it doesn’t directly cause the magic itself. I believe Catalytic systems, OTOH, use power directly to cause their magical effect. Shard power in these systems is Fuel, but the Catalysts seem to be fuel. Catalysts cause power to Invest Users by adding energy to the magical system. Some posters call Fuel “Kinetic Investiture.” I agree as to the Catalytic systems only, since only they draw power from a different Realm: Kinetic Investiture is energy/power that is being actively (currently) used.” Brandon gives this example: I read Khriss’ BoM description of “an Investiture” (Ars Arcanum, “On the Three Metallic Arts – Allomancy”) to mean the moment when power moves from the Spiritual Realm into the User. Power in this moment of Realmic transition is what I believe Brandon means by “Kinetic Investiture” (that is, Investiture “in motion”). The Nightblood example shows Kinetic Investiture Invests an Allomancer while he burns steel and the power is in transit. Nightblood intercepts this Investiture and instead consumes it. I think this example shows Kinetic Investiture doesn’t Fuel magic until it reaches its destination (the User). At that point, it becomes “static” Investiture (my word), held within the User and subject to his direction. In summary, Each system is powered by Fuel Without which no magic can do. Fuel’s usually Physical, But sometimes it’s Spiritual, Since Catalysts bring power too. [@Calderis, you’re a terrible man.] You can read the other magic component posts at General Theory, Focus, User, and Catalyst. Regards!

I suggest you read “Magic System Components – General Theory” before reading this post. Introduction I believe a Focus is the magic system component that determines which power is available for magic. Shards and ascended mortals Focus power through their minds alone. Magic systems must rely on approximations and constructs to Focus power. I theorize the Spiritual Realm Investiture that constitutes Shard power is “raw” and undifferentiated. I believe power – “true Investiture” – is Brandon’s “one substance” that’s convertible into all other substances. When power is Invested, it becomes specialized into some unique form of Investiture (or matter or energy). IMO, magic system “Focusing” is the Realmic transition of undifferentiated raw power into some specialized form of power. I think Khriss calls the process of Focusing power “an Investiture” of the User. (BoM Ars Arcanum, “On the Three Metallic Arts – Allomancy.”) IOW, I think “Investiture” is the word for both a process and the magical substance that participates in that process. Thus, through brass, Vin Focuses Preservation’s undifferentiated power into the “soothing” power she dampens emotions with. Through Pattern (IMO), Shallan Focuses Honor/Cultivation’s undifferentiated power into the “soul-transformation” power she draws with. I think Khriss would describe each of these as “an Investiture” of Vin and Shallan by the Focused power. Forum Theories Brandon says, “the powers granted by all of the metals—even the two divine ones—are not themselves of either Shard. They are simply tools.” IMO, a Focus selects the magical “tool.” Some posters express this idea by saying a Focus “shapes” the magic. They call Focus an “interface,” the “man in the middle.” They say a Focus “determines the outcome of the magic.” I think all these formulations agree that a Focus distills power to achieve the User’s aim. I favor the “power selection” formulation because I think Users’ minds “shape the outcome of the magic,” not the Focus. IMO, Users Invest themselves with the Focused power before shaping it. Vin burns brass to Invest herself with the “soothing power” before soothing who, how, and when she chooses. Shallan consumes Stormlight to Invest herself with Lightweaving’s soul-transformation power before her drawings transform her subjects. Relationship to Other Components Focuses sometimes coincide with other magic system components. Metals are both Allomancy’s Catalyst and Focus. On Nalthis and Sel, Focuses seem identical to the User’s cognitive direction of power, their commands. Brandon says Awakening’s Focus is its visualized commands. These commands both tell the object what the Awakener wants it to do and summon the right power to implement the command. This makes me wonder: do Awakeners use a single power – the ability to animate objects – and the visualized command directs that power to “protect” or “climb” or “destroy evil”? I know this is contrary to Brandon’s words, but it is a functionally identical model. The Selish magics also seem to combine Focus with command. These magics use visual representations of local landscapes both to summon the chosen power and to tell the power what to do. I think Focus and other components may coincide because Focus substitutes for the mortal mind’s inability to command power directly and without limits, the way Shards can. Focus limits the amount of power a mortal can use, to prevent the mortal’s vaporization. Even the “mostly Spiritual” Elantrians are limited by the amount of power the Focus Aon Rao pumps into Elantris. IMO, such magic system “work-arounds” don’t always fit within the four-component model. One Focus per Power I agree with Forum consensus that each Focus corresponds to one power. Mistborn, Awakeners (maybe), and Elantrians use multiple Focuses to access multiple powers. Mistings access only one power through one Focus. Radiantspren IMO combine Investitures and are dual Focuses, giving access to two powers. Focuses and Shardworld Investiture I think local Shardworld Investiture cannot be further Focused into something else. It already embodies the “essence” of the Focused power that Invested it. IOW, local Investiture already does what it was created (“Focused”) to do. Thus, I believe each type of pre-Shattering spren is the personified “essence” of a separately Focused power like life, gravity, or fire. IMO, spren in turn act as the Focus for the powers they’re the essence of. Gravityspren, for example, Focus the gravity power so skyeels can fly and greatshells can walk. IOW, local Investiture like spren can Focus the power they’re the essence of, but spren and other local Investiture cannot themselves be further Focused into some other power. Conclusion A Focus determines which power Is available and in what manner. Each Focus is linked To one power, I think, And Khriss calls this process “an Investiture.” [Drat you, @Calderis!] You can read the other magic component posts at General Theory, Fuel, User, and Catalyst. Regards!

I suggest you read Magic System Components – General Theory before reading this post. Introduction I define a User as a “person” (a sapient being) whose mind directs the Fuel. “Fuel” is the power or local Shardworld Investiture that causes a magical effect. “Power” is Spiritual Realm Investiture that’s not part of a Spiritweb – IMO, the cosmere’s Spiritual energy. I think Users should exercise some control over the magical effect. Otherwise, magic happens to them. They don’t make magic happen even when they expose themselves to magic, like First of the Sun’s trappers and Nightwatcher boon seekers. I believe the “people with magic” systems have Users, but the “interaction with nature” systems don’t. IMO Dusk is not a User but a passive beneficiary of Aviar magic. His Aviar choose to encompass him in their protective shield. For the same reason, I think Nightwatcher boon seekers are not Users – they have no control over the magical effect, only the decision to seek her out. IMO, “User” includes the magical concepts “Identity,” “innate Investiture,” and “Initiation.” I discuss these concepts below. Users Are Sapient Beings Sazed and Brandon say power needs a mind to direct it. I think a User must be a sapient being – in Brandon’s words a “person.” I’ve seen suggestions that non-sapient objects can also be Users. I think a non-sapient object is incapable of directing magic. Mere sentience involves feeling, not thinking. Brandon says commanding magic is “like your mind reaching into the Spiritual Realm and you have to like conceive something.” IMO, non-sapient objects can’t conceive and, thus, can’t be Users. I believe understanding the magic is a critical aspect to using it. This idea underlies Khriss’ definition of magical “Intention” (Elantris, 10th Ed., Ars Arcanum, “Intention”), that a User must intend to perform magic before his actions can cause magic. In this WoB, Brandon hints that even Shards, whose Vessels were mortal, have trouble understanding the divine concept “omnipresence.” Sazed also says how difficult it is to use power without experience. Identity I define Identity as the relationship between Users and their native Shardworlds’ Investiture that enables Users to use that Investiture. Brandon says, for example, “People born on Scadrial have an Identity tied to it and its magic.” I believe this “lock-and-key” relationship is built into each User’s soul. Scadrians normally can’t use Stormlight, and Nalthian Returned normally can’t survive on Roshar or Taldain. Vasher instead must change some aspect of his soul to survive on those planets. Identity and Hacking I define “hacking” as the method by which non-natives of a Shardworld use native Investiture to achieve some magical effect. I believe hacking always involves changes to the User’s Identity. Hacking may also change other magical attributes, but to use non-native Investiture I think hackers must change their Identity in some way. Breath, though it meets my technical definition, IMO is not hacking because it automatically adjusts to its holder’s Identity. IIRC correctly (and I may not), Vasher is the only known cosmere hacker. I don’t consider Hoid a hacker because he is Spiritually unique and seems capable of acquiring any magic. IMO, others can’t do what Hoid does. I also don’t consider Worldhoppers hackers because AFAIK they don’t perform local magic on their journeys. Magical entities inherently capable of absorbing any Investiture, like Taldain’s lichen, is also not hacking as I understand it. If hacking were always this easy, Brandon wouldn’t call it “jumping through hoops.” Identity and Awakening I think comparing Awakening with simple non-Awakening Breath transfers highlights how Identity works. Some background: starting with the third post of this thread, posters discuss whether it’s possible for a non-Nalthian to Awaken objects. The third and most recent WoB quoted there seems to say a non-Nalthian Breath holder can Awaken on Nalthis, contrary to what the first two WoBs suggest. I think that third WoB is wrong, and Brandon didn’t mean to say what he said. Let me explain. The first two WoBs confirm it’s possible to transfer Breaths anywhere to anyone; but an apparent ambiguity can be reconciled to suggest non-Nalthian Breath holders can’t Awaken, even on Nalthis. I see Identity as the reason for this distinction. I believe only Nalthians have the Identity to consume Awakening’s Catalyst that summons Endowment’s power. IMO, Awakening’s Catalyst is the Invested electromagnetic radiation (EMR) colored objects absorb (not the EMR those objects reflect, the color itself). I think objects drained of this Investiture turn gray, like a Shardblade-severed limb disconnected from the soul. I think non-native Breath holders lack the Nalthian Identity needed to consume Nalthis’ Invested EMR. Breaths are separate from the soul, where Nalthian Identity resides. Without the EMR’s Catalytic Investiture, non-Nalthians can’t summon and Invest themselves with Endowment’s Awakening power. That’s why non-Nalthians IMO can’t Awaken, though they otherwise get the benefits of Breath’s Heightenings. I think Brandon made a misstatement in the third WoB. There he says a non-Nalthian can Awaken on Nalthis because “It’s the easiest of magics to get the magic from, and then to manipulate. Because it has keyed into it Identity.” We know Awakening requires detailed visualization of the command to the Awakened object. I don’t think that’s “easy,” as Nightblood proves. That makes me think Brandon was talking about simple Breath transfers, not Awakening. Breaths are “the easiest of magics to get the magic from, and then to manipulate.” Breaths do have Identity “keyed into” them. It would be nice to ask Brandon this question again and hear what he says. Identity and Feruchemy We know, as a rule, that metalminds are keyed to the Identity of the Feruchemist who stored them. This makes sense, since the metalmind holds the Investiture representing that Feruchemist’s personal attributes – his strength, weight, senses, etc. IMO, this fits with my definition of Identity: “the relationship between Users and their native Shardworlds’ Investiture that enables Users to use that Investiture.” With Feruchemy, that relationship is between the Feruchemist and the native Shardworld Investiture representing his converted attributes. Innate Investiture IMO, “innate Investiture” is the Investiture grafted onto a User’s soul that makes them a User. Brandon says, “innate Investiture is when a person is a conduit to/from the Spiritual Realm.” That WoB seems to limit innate Investiture to the Catalytic systems, since IMO only those systems use Shard power as their Fuel. My definition more broadly includes Feruchemical and Hemalurgically-implanted innate Investiture. Brandon elsewhere defines innate Investiture as the Investiture a soul is conceived or born with, like Breaths and the inherited Investitures of the Metallic Arts. This definition would not consider Radiantspren, for example, innate Investiture. By whatever definition, innate Investiture seems to me an aspect of being a User. Initiation I define “Initiation” as the process by which a potential User becomes an actual User. It seems to involve the creation and/or strengthening of the Connection between the User and the Shard whose power the User relies on as Fuel. Initiation thus seems limited to Catalytic system Users. The clearest examples of Initiation are Allomantic snapping and the Elantrian Shaod, both of which are “all or nothing” events. I think Initiation may also be an ongoing process that strengthens the Shard – User Connection over time. On Roshar, for example, soul cracks allow temperamentally compatible Radiantspren to begin the bonding process. IMO, strengthening the Nahel bond through the Oaths is also part of Initiation. (This is definitional and not a big deal either way, but I throw it out there, FWIW.) Conclusion Only sapient beings are Users. Their mind directs magic and chooses The magic’s effect, And what they select Through their Spiritweb outpours and oozes. (Oh, @Calderis!) You can read the other magic component posts at General Theory, Fuel, Focus, and Catalyst. Regards!

A Forum “well-established theory” (WET) states a User powers magic with Fuel and shapes the magical effect through a Focus. I agree with WET, with some tweaks. I believe there are different types of magic systems that share different WET components. IMO, all magic systems have Focus and Fuel. All “people with magic” systems additionally have a User. “Catalytic people with magic” systems add what Khriss calls a “Catalyst.” I detail each magical component in related posts to isolate those topics for separate discussion. In this post, I’ll first summarize the differences among magic systems. I then state how I think the components relate to one another and how they apply to specific magic systems. I call “revised” WET, “Re-WET.” Types of Magic Systems I theorize there are two main types of magic systems: "Interaction with nature” systems and “people with magic” systems. IMO, the “people with magic” systems – systems where sapient beings can direct the magical effect – are subdivided into those that use “Catalysts” and those that don’t. I think Catalysts are substances Users consume to Invest themselves with Shard “power” (Spiritual Realm Investiture not part of a Spiritweb – IMO the cosmere’s Spiritual energy). Shards created “people with magic” systems post-Shattering, and they are found only on Major Shardworlds. In summary: “Catalytic people with magic” systems – Sapient beings (“people”) can direct Shard power. Examples: Allomancy, Surgebinding, and Awakening. “Non-Catalytic people with magic” systems – People can direct local Shardworld Investiture, but not Shard power. Examples: Feruchemy, the Returned, and non-Awakening Breath Transfers. “Interaction with nature” systems – People can interact with local Shardworld Investiture, but cannot direct magic of any kind. Examples: Threnody’s shades, the Patji’s Eye ecosystem on First of the Sun, and Roshar’s pre-Shattering magical ecosystem. Preliminary Thought IMO, Adonalsium created the “interaction with nature” systems when he formed the cosmere. The first WoB above states, “There is inherent Investiture on every world created.” Shards later added their Investiture to some of these systems, but these systems are still “natural” in the sense they are built into their planets, part of their planets’ Spiritwebs. “People with magic” systems OTOH are IMO artificial constructs the Shards created to approximate how the Shards themselves make magic. Shards think, and magic happens. “People’s” minds are too weak to direct large amounts of power by themselves. Magic system components IMO are “work-arounds” to fill this gap. For this reason, some components don’t fit neatly into a model. Focus, for example, overlaps other components like a User’s commands and Catalysts. WET Here’s @Spoolofwhool’s succinct and representative expression of WET: Re-WET Here’s my suggestion to revise WET’s components. I discuss each Re-WET component in the linked posts. User: A person whose mind directs the Fuel. Focus: A component that determines which power is available for magic. Fuel: The power or local Investiture that causes a magical effect. Catalyst: A substance Users consume to Invest themselves with Shard power. Note on “User”: I think a User must be a sapient being, a “person.” I also think the User component includes magical “Identity,” “innate Investiture,” and “Initiation.” Identity IMO is the relationship between the User and their native Shardworld’s Investiture. Innate Investiture is the Investiture grafted onto a User’s soul that makes them a User. Initiation is the process by which a potential User becomes an actual User. I discuss these in the “User” post. Note on “Focus”: I believe a Focus determines the power available for magic. IMO, local Shardworld Investiture cannot be further Focused. It already embodies the “essence” of the power that created it. Note on “Fuel”: I follow WET’s convention of naming magic-causing Investiture “Fuel.” As so defined, upper case “Fuel” seems more of a magical engine than that engine’s “fuel.” Lower case “fuel” is a substance consumed to provide energy to a process, like gasoline energizes a car’s motion. I believe all magic does have such “fuel,” which I discuss in the “Fuel” post. Please bear in mind, though, that both WET and Re-WET identify “Fuel” as the substance that causes magic to happen, not the substance consumed to add energy to the magical process. Note on “Catalyst”: I believe each Catalyst is made from a Shard’s “essence,” the Shard’s converted power. On Scadrial, metal is Preservation’s “concentrated essence” (BoM, Chapter 28, Kindle p. 359). On the other Major Shardworlds, I believe that “essence” is a form of the Shardworld’s local Investiture. I theorize this Investiture is found in Roshar’s highstorms, Taldain’s irradiated oceans, Nalthis’ electromagnetic radiation (EMR), and Sel’s ground. Catalysts add energy to the magical process (and hence are “fuel”); but unlike chemical catalysts, the process consumes them. Note on “magic systems”: WET equates the term “manifestation of Investiture” with “magic system.” While I don’t think it matters much, I’m unconvinced the terms mean the same thing. In the Mistborn Ars Arcana, Khriss describes the Metallic Arts as “manifestations of Investiture.” She doesn’t describe magic systems in other books that way, which suggests the term isn’t definitional. I interpret the term literally – a “manifestation of Investiture” is how Investiture manifests in a planet’s Physical Realm. Thus, I see Stormlight and Radiantspren as Rosharan “manifestations of Investiture.” Neither is a “magic system.” IMO, they are components of the Surgebinding “magic system,” its Catalyst and Focus, respectively. I believe the “interaction with nature” systems have only the Fuel and Focus components, and non-Catalytic “people with magic” systems add a User. IMO, the Catalytic systems have all four magical components and work as follows: A. The User consumes a Catalyst, like metals, Stormlight or body water. B. The Catalyst causes a Shard’s power to “begin [and ‘keep running’] an Investiture” of the User (BoM Ars Arcanum – “On the Three Metallic Arts – Allomancy.”) The Investiture ends when the User fully consumes the Catalyst. C. The Focus determines which power Invests the User. D. The User’s mind then directs the Invested power to “shape” the desired magical effect. Specific Systems @SpoolofWhool’s post includes examples of how WET applies to some magic systems. After quoting Spool’s WET examples, I suggest how Re-WET would apply to the same systems. Allomancy: The User is the Allomancer. I think the metal they burn is both a Catalyst and a Focus. Any Allomantic metal will act as a Catalyst to enable the Allomancer to Invest himself with Preservation’s power. The specific metal chosen will act as a Focus to determine the specific power the Allomancer Invests himself with – rioting, soothing, leeching, etc. IMO, the Allomancer himself shapes the power’s specific effect – how and when to use that power to riot, soothe or leech. While metal Catalysts are consumed in Allomancy, its Fuel is Preservation’s power. Feruchemy: The User is the Feruchemist. He directs Feruchemy’s magical effect when he chooses to time-shift an attribute. IOW, I think the conversion of “some of themselves into investiture” is Feruchemy’s magical effect, not its Fuel. I think the Fuel that causes this magical effect is the Feruchemical gene, the Feruchemist’s “end-neutral” internal Investiture. I believe even “end-neutral” Feruchemy consumes a “fuel” to make the magic. IMO, Brandon confirms this when he says “end-neutral” systems rely on a “facilitating power.” I believe this “facilitating power” keeps the Feruchemist’s internal Investiture “end-neutral” and thermodynamically sound. I think each Feruchemical metal is a Focus for the specific power that “facilitates” time-shifting the corresponding attribute. (I discuss this more in my Fuel post.) Awakening: The User is the Awakener. Brandon says Awakening’s Focus is the visualized command. The User’s command both selects the power to Invest the User and directs that power to Awaken the object for the visualized task. “Draining color” (as I describe it below) Catalyzes Awakening and Invests the Awakener with Endowment’s power. I don’t believe Awakening’s Fuel is Breath (though maybe I missed a WoB that clearly says that). I think Breath is Endowment’s Invested “life-force,” the target of the Awakener’s command, not its Fuel. Breath held by the Invested object just gets old and loses potency like Breath does in humans. IMO Breath decay is not consumption. Color loss from simple Breath Transfers (an end-neutral magic) comes from the transferor’s reduced Breaths, lowering his Heightening. IOW, color loss from simple Breath Transfers does not act as a Catalyst that summons power. I think Awakening’s Catalyst is the Invested electromagnetic radiation (EMR) colored objects absorb. Awakening’s Fuel is the Endowment power that Catalyst summons through the Focus of the Awakener’s command. “Draining color” withdraws the absorbed Investiture from the colored object. Awakeners can easily “drain” black (fully absorbed EMR), but cannot drain white (fully reflected EMR). This Investiture withdrawal causes colored objects to turn gray, just like a Shardblade-severed limb that’s lost its connection to the soul. I theorize Endowment Invested the Tears of Edgli with vivid color because that narrows the reflected light EMR spectrum (and is more noticeable). The broader absorbed EMR spectrum remains, leaving more Investiture for an Awakener to withdraw. The “sticky” dyes the Tears create mark where an Awakener can find Investiture. Surgebinding: The User is the Surgebinder. I agree with @SpoolofWhool that it probably doesn’t matter whether the Focus is the spren or the bond, but IMO spren are Roshar’s Focus. Each “natural” (pre-Shattering) spren personifies a different power, like life, fire, or gravity. These “natural” spren can Focus “anti-gravity” power, for example, into sky eels and greatshells. I believe Radiantspren’s mixed Investitures make them dual Focuses. (I haven’t thought through whether gems are soulcasting’s additional Focus and don’t address that.) IMO Surgebinders consume Stormlight to Catalyze Honor and/or Cultivation’s Investiture of them. The Radiantspren determines which power Invests the Surgebinder. I think the Surgebinder “binds” the Surges by cognitively directing the Invested power to create some magical effect – choosing gravity’s vector or drawing a new persona. Conclusion I analyze each Re-WET component in detail in my posts on Fuel, Focus, Users and Catalysts. Those are the threads to post your comments about the components themselves. Here I try to address how I think these components fit together. In summary, All systems have Fuel and are Focused. Shards added a User and Catalyst. Mortals now can direct Their own magic effect, Like becoming a soul-forging analyst. [Da-dum… The first of several such summaries. Blame @Calderis, the Adonalsium of cosmere limericks. He inspired me to summarize theory in verse and even write an English sonnet about my three favorite fantasy writers. I enjoy writing theory, but @Calderis has added some entertaining challenges. He’s also the source of the phrase “well-established theory” I use to describe the “User-Focus-Fuel” model.] Regards!

I agree that the Metallic Arts can be used anywhere. I think Preservation planned for Allomancers and Feruchemists to use metal anywhere. Planned or not, that means the Scadrian form of Hemalurgy can also be used anywhere. But that doesn’t mean the Scadrian form is the only form of Hemalurgy or that such other forms don’t use local Investiture and Focuses to create their “spikes.” (We know Lightweaving and Regrowth, for example, have more than one planetary form.) In fact, I don’t think Hemalurgy (admittedly a “Metallic Art”) is an actual “magic system.” IMO, it’s a wholly mechanical means of transferring magical attributes from one soul to another. Hemalurgy requires magical knowledge regarding spike placement, but only the victim (until spiked) and the transferee are magic users. The spiker isn’t. Roshar’s Focus is a question I’ve mostly avoided. I agree with those who think it doesn’t matter much whether the Focus is the spren or the bond. In this case, though, maybe it does matter. I side with the spren advocates because Roshar’s pre-Shattering “natural” spren also seem to Focus Shard powers like gravity, fire, and life. I think that’s the basis for fabrials, which don’t rely on the Nahel bond. I also think Odium’s Investiture doesn’t bond at all because Odium’s “hate” mandate divides and corrodes. IOW, Odium – Hate – severs connections but doesn’t form them. I’m tapped out on my public comments on this subject. If you’d like to kick this around some more, we can have a private conversation. Or better still, if you’d like to look at a mostly finished draft post on magic system components, contact me. (The post contains a limerick!) I prefer to unearth problems in advance of publication rather than afterwards…Thanks, Calderis!

You've probably seen "this line of reasoning before" from me. I've been pushing it for at least two years. And I too could be completely wrong... I'm unperturbed by the WoB, though. I think every form of Hemalurgy would use the same "bind points," since they’re common to every soul. Otherwise, the Hemalurgized soul couldn't perform magic. I believe Scadrial uses metal spikes because metals are Scadrial’s Focus. I believe Roshar’s Focus are its spren. It makes sense to me that the Rosharan “spike” would be an Odiumspren that takes over its host.

I think Hemalurgy appears on Roshar and is how Odium “corrupts” souls. The clearest evidence is Dalinar’s Purelake vision. The squires refer to the corrupted spren’s “escort” and try to keep it from linking with what I believe is a dead greatshell. That linkage results in the thunderclast. In its broadest sense, I understand Hemalurgy to be the insertion of “foreign” Investiture into another’s soul. “Foreign” Investiture to me is Investiture that doesn’t normally attach to that soul and becomes attached by mechanical means. On Scadrial, Hemalurgy requires a metal spike, violence and death. That doesn’t mean Hemalurgy on other planets works the same way. I believe stormspren are Hemalurgized windspren. I think Odium inserts his Investiture into the windspren to change them. Brandon says souls “carry” Odium’s Investiture. Odium’s Investiture doesn’t bond, it “unmakes.” IMO, because of this, Odium must somehow slip his Investiture into the windspren, changing them, and the windspren/stormspren themselves bond with listeners. It’s a different mechanical means of “spiking,” but it has the same result as Scadrian Hemalurgy.

@Calderis suggested the idea of writing posts in poetic form. Here’s my attempt at an English sonnet, comparing my three favorite fantasy writers. I first read Brandon when Mistborn was new. He captured me as much as Martin did, And Robin Hobb, who wrote Fitz and the Fool. These three became the novelists I read. George Martin has the grandest epic style, Yet better suited visually for the screen. Ms. Hobb is introspective all the while Her heroes suffer horrors most obscene. But Brandon writes a clear compelling tale, With magic interwoven through his worlds. The weakest and the broken become hale – The heroes who receive their just rewards. Though Martin hasn’t finished and looks lame, The three of them deserve their well-earned fame.