Confused

This post spotlights perceived flaws in some widely held theories. I don’t necessarily have better answers, but IMO these theories don’t add up on their own terms. My analysis follows the statement of each theory. Theory: Breaths are Awakening’s Fuel Breaths are indivisible. Awakeners can’t use partial Breaths. If Breaths are the fuel, then Awakening should consume some portion of them, but it doesn’t. Something about “color draining” instead fuels Awakening. (“End-neutral” non-Awakening Breath transfers analogize to Feruchemy and are fueled by “facilitating” Spiritual Realm Investiture.) Theory: Water is Sand Mastery’s Focus Consensus defines Focus as the magic system component that “shapes” the magic. Many posters view water as Sand Mastery’s Focus. But Sand Masters dehydrate no matter how they manipulate the microflora that configures the sand. The water instead “forges a brief Cognitive bond” between the Sand Master and the microflora: Sand Masters use Spiritual Realm Investiture “to control the sand.” The “Cognitive bond” seems to give them this ability, suggesting Sand Masters’ thoughts “shape the magic” (much like Awakeners), not the water. Khriss says water causes uncontrolled growth. If it doesn’t “shape the magic,” water can’t be Sand Mastery’s Focus. Theory: “The Nahel bond is obviously of both Cultivation and Honor, but not all Surgebinding is the Nahel bond” I read this statement of common belief on Discord. It contradicts two WoBs that say HOW Shards access Spiritual Realm Investiture is the only magical difference among them: “The means of getting powers…are related to the Shards, but not the powers themselves.” “The 'role' of the Shard has to do with the WAY the magic is obtained, not what it can do.” A 2017 WoB confirms Honor – and only Honor – gives magic through bonds. “Bonds [are] an Honor thing”: “Surgebinding” is the Nahel bond – by definition. Fabrials and Voidbinding also bind Roshar’s Surges, but they are not “Surgebinding” because these systems “obtain [their] magic” through different means than bonds. The means of access defines the system, not what the magic does. This is true even though Cultivation’s spren are part of Surgebinding. “Bonds” on Roshar means a Spiritweb Connection between two people – mortal and Radiantspren. The Fused gain Voidbinding by replacing a Singer’s Spiritweb (filling that void). Fabrials use a captive spren to transform Stormlight into the power the spren personifies. All three bind Surges – manipulate Roshar’s fundamental forces – but they access their magic differently. Theory: Investiture is limitless This theory spins from Brandon’s frequent comment that Investiture is “Infinite.” “infinite” can mean either incomprehensibly vast OR endless. If there’s an endless amount of Investiture, then thermodynamics’ first law fails for want of a constant sum of Investiture, matter, and energy. Since Brandon says it does apply, Investiture can’t be limitless. There’s just an incomprehensibly large amount of it. Theory: The cosmere shares its Spiritual Realm Investiture with the larger universe of which it is a part The issue here is thermodynamics’ first law – the sum of cosmere Investiture, matter, and energy is constant. But that law applies only if the cosmere is a closed, self-contained system. Brandon says the law does apply. Therefore, the cosmere is a closed system. The Spiritual Realm and its Investiture cannot extend beyond the cosmere. Theory: Shard “intents” are divine personality traits Brandon says Shards combine personality with some “primal force” like entropy and stasis. Posters commonly ignore the primal force component to focus on personality. I recently posted my thoughts on this subject. I think a Shard’s primal force converts the personality metaphor into workable magic mechanics. Frost, for example, describes Odium as holding “God’s own divine hatred, separated from the virtues that gave it context.” To translate divine hatred into magic, I think we should look at what hate does. It corrodes relationships, divides people, and numbs feelings to justify bad behaviors. It makes sense to me Odium’s magic breaks people-to-people Connections as its mechanic, freeing a person’s basic instinctual drives from their cultural restraints. This idea might be completely wrong. But it is equally wrong to ignore a Shard’s primal force altogether as so many do. Until next time…

In this post, I use “nature,” to describe Vessel-independent Shard behavior and “expression” to describe Vessel-influenced Shard behavior. @Jofwu first suggested this distinction and nomenclature. IMO, “intent” and “mandate” muddle this distinction, since their meaning varies with usage. Summary Brandon says each Shard combines personality with a “primal force.” Consensus agrees Vessel personality determines Shard expression: how the Vessels choose to direct their Shards’ Investiture. IMO, a Shard’s “primal force” defines its immutable nature. This primal force Connects the Vessel to its Shard. I believe magic system mechanics show us each Shard’s primal force Connection. Theory Spiritual Realm Investiture is the same for all Shards. Shards differ only in how they access this Investiture and how they grant it to mortals: “The 'role' of the Shard has to do with the WAY the magic is obtained, not what it can do,” and “The means of getting powers…are related to the Shards, but not the powers themselves.” Brandon tells us Connection is not Investiture: “Connection is, like, the equivalent of a quantum connection in our world, so it's more like a force than something comprised of something.” If Spiritual Realm Investiture is the same for all Shards, then Shards differ only in their Connection to their Vessel. I believe each Shard’s primal force IS this unique Connection. Magic users draw Investiture from the Spiritual Realm through their Shard’s primal force Connection. Magic systems IMO supply the best evidence of each Shard’s primal force Connection. Here are Brandon’s three examples from the WoB I quote in full below. Ruin – Primal Force Connection: Entropy. “Ruin is a charged term for” entropy. Ruin’s magic system gives Investiture to mortals through an act of entropy – spiking. Any Ruin Vessel IMO would deliver its Investiture via entropy. Personality: “Kind and generous” Ati chose decay to express entropy. He was the best Ruin possible. Another Vessel might have chosen cataclysm. Preservation - Primal Force Connection: Stasis. “Preservation is a charged term for stasis.” Any Preservation Vessel IMO would deliver Investiture to mortals through metal’s static molecular structure. Personality: Leras created the Terris Prophecies and imprisoned Ruin. Other Vessels might have acted differently. Honor - Primal Force Connection: Connects People. “Honor is the sense of being bound by rules, even when those rules, you wouldn't have to be bound by.” I think any Honor Vessel would deliver Investiture to mortals through a person-to-person Connection like the Nahel bond. Personality: Tanavast’s Honor chose oaths to create binding rules. Another Vessel (Dalinar’s Unity?) might favor other means to bind people. Tanavast’s personality gives “this sense that [‘honor’] is noble,” though “there's also something not honorable about Honor if taken from the other [primal force] direction.” I speculate about other Shards’ primal forces in other posts, but these are the only three Shard natures Brandon confirms. I believe, for example, Odium gives his Investiture through broken “people” Connections. When mortals eschew emotional pain (“I’m not to blame”), they isolate themselves from others. The resulting void lets hate in. Mechanically, Odium’s Investiture flows through the cracks in the soul left by the broken Connections. Breaking people Connections seems to be Odium’s nature, its primal force. A different Vessel than Rayse, who chose this repulsive force for his Shard, might break people Connections in a way that doesn’t generate violent passion. Shards eventually compel Vessels to conform to their Shard’s nature. Vessels succumb IMO because they draw all their power through their primal force Connection. Entropy made Ati more destructive. Stasis made Leras unable to harm Elend. The compulsion to Connect with others made Tanavast rely on bare oaths devoid of meaning. Analysis Two WoBs give guidance on Shard natures and Vessel expressions. Theorists have picked over the first the past year. The second WoB asks if Connection or “intent” attracts a Shard to its Vessel. I think at minimum this WoB says Shards reflect both personality and primal force. From his examples, I believe Brandon refers to Vessel personalities plus primal force. Here’s the second WoB about Connection and “intent”: This WoB distinguishes between “general intent/mindset” and Connection. I read “general intent/mindset” to mean Vessel temperament. Brandon says temperament alignment is unnecessary, though it makes ascension “easier.” Instead, the Vessels needed to “create Connection” to assume their Shards: “there was a lot going on with” Connection creation at the Shattering. Brandon’s answer shows personality is not part of Shard nature. Otherwise, temperament alignment would be necessary. Based on the first WoB, I believe the Vessels created a separate primal force Connection to each Shard. Sixteen different means to draw Investiture enabled the Vessels to divide Adonalsium’s power into sixteen equal parts. The “Adonalsium Personality Trait” Theory of Shard Natures @Calderis proposes the alternative “Adonalsium Personality Trait” theory of Shard origin. Because Shards are both personality and primal force, I don’t think it matters which origin theory is correct. The two quoted WoBs are mushy enough to allow either interpretation. But I know Cal will mention his theory if I don’t, so I summarize and respond to it in this Spoiler. Conclusion I think each Vessel Connects to its Shard by a different primal force. I believe that primal force Connection defines their Shard’s nature. Shards deliver their Investiture to magic users by the same primal force Connection. That mechanic appears immutable. Everything else IMO is the Vessel’s expression of its Shard’s nature, until nature ultimately overcomes expression.

Thank you, Leyrann! What a nice thing to say! And I appreciate your sticking up for me with Cal – no easy task. He’s a tough, imaginative theorist. And it didn’t take me 3 years to write! Brandon says Cultivation’s magic is more than boons/curses, but “nobody on screen” has yet used this broader magic. Odium describes Cultivation’s nature as “transformation. Growth.” (OB, Chapter 57, p. 551.) As Dalinar’s life shows, transformation has a cost. The experience that teaches also hurts. I think this idea of growth at a cost lurks behind the boon/curse dynamic, and IMO does fit with Cultivation. I theorize Cultivation paid for Roshar’s transformation with Tanavast’s life. The OP states the Honor Shard overcame him. He’d changed from the person Cultivation loved. Under her own Shard’s Growth compulsion, I believe Cultivation felt she had no choice. Cal, your WoB does not say Cultivation helped Honor fight Odium. I think it’s clear she didn’t or we’d have heard of it. Odium says, “I’ll kill the other one [Cultivation] too, eventually. She’s hidden herself somewhere, and I’m too…shackled.” (OB, Chapter 57, p. 550.) If Odium is “too shackled” to kill Cultivation now, he likewise would be too shackled to kill Honor earlier. Odium needed someone’s help – “WE” killed Tanavast. Odium wanted certainty his attack wouldn’t “coax out” Cultivation. IMO, they colluded to kill Tanavast. As Leyrann says, Cultivation’s consent does not “make the WoB false.” It means Cultivation “helped” Honor in a different way. The OP speculates Cultivation oversaw Tanavast’s merger into the Stormfather. Perhaps Cultivation demanded this from Odium for her complicity. The merger preserved Tanavast’s memories and prevented Honor’s power from splintering more than it did. Dalinar’s will later commanded this extra Investiture – Honor’s “remnants” – to open up the Spiritual Realm. The Stormfather by himself lacked the mental strength to renew spheres. (OB, Chapter 64, Kindle p. 639.) I think Cultivation prepared the soil for a new Vessel who could replace Tanavast. An interesting point, Scion. It seems to me any sapient mind that can direct Investiture could ascend in the right circumstance. A Scadrial Cognitive Shadow partly ascended. Every person’s Spiritual aspect is imprinted on raw Investiture. As splinters, the Unmade are minds imprinted on Odium’s Investiture. Shallan says Re-Shephir and maybe Sja-anat once were human before becoming “unmade.” If anything, I think an Odium splinter is more likely to ascend because of the pre-existing Connection to Odium. But who knows. It’s a good question. To be clear, I only stand behind the OP’s premise: Cultivation is the Growth Shard. Roshar has stopped growing. The Growth Shard feels compelled to change that. From there, the post speculates what actions Cultivation might take given that goal and how those actions might overlay known Rosharan history. It’s reasonable speculation, but nothing more.

SUMMARY Cultivation is the Growth Shard. Roshar has stopped growing. The Growth Shard feels compelled to change that. This post speculates what actions Cultivation might take to restore growth and how those actions overlay known Rosharan history. CULTIVATION'S NATURE Odium describes Cultivation’s nature as “transformation. Growth.” (OB, Chapter 57, p. 551.) Cultivation tells Dalinar: “ALL THINGS MUST BE CULTIVATED… I CONTROL ALL THINGS THAT CAN BE GROWN, NURTURED.” (OB, Chapter 114, Kindle p. 1079.) I read this to mean Cultivation controls all living things. FWIW, Brandon says Cultivation would be a mono-green M:tG deck. I think Cultivation doesn’t play favorites among lifeforms – she controls and cultivates “ALL THINGS THAT CAN BE GROWN.” That includes Singers, Aimians, and humans, other fauna plus flora, and each Shard’s spren. CULTIVATION’S PROBLEM IMO, Cultivation as a Shard cannot abide stagnation. Binding Odium led to Desolations that destroyed human civilization more than fifteen times and near-obliterated Singers and their culture. Catastrophe tends to focus mortal minds on survival, limiting the scope of ideas available to the spren “gene pool.” Blockading voidspren in Braize further reduces the spren “gene pool” and bars ideas from cross-fertilizing. The Recreance left spren “only now beginning to recover the culture and society they had lost…” (OB, Chapter 47, Kindle p. 479.) Roshar’s history hurt the growth of all mortal species and the spren that personify their ideas. Roshar’s Shards, IMO, should work well together – as “primal forces,” I believe Honor makes Connections, Odium breaks Connections, and Cultivation changes Connections. These three mechanics seem necessary for a smooth functioning planetary life cycle. Rayse’s ambition and “loathsomeness” means the Shards don’t work well together. I think Tanavast before his death succumbed to the Honor Shard, which also caused dysfunction. The Stormfather tells Dalinar, “HONOR LET THE POWER BLIND HIM TO THE TRUTH—THAT WHILE SPREN AND GODS CANNOT BREAK THEIR OATHS, MEN CAN AND WILL.” (OB, Chapter 38, Kindle p. 406, bold added.) Odium and the Stormfather agree Honor changed and relied on naked oaths at the end, not their meaning: Other passages acknowledge or hint at Honor’s rigidity. Contrary to Cultivation’s neutral view of lifeforms, the Stormfather intones oaths “are the mark of men and true spren over beasts and subspren.” (OB, Chapter 4, Kindle p. 60.) Dalinar elsewhere notes, “The Stormfather…didn’t like the idea of change.” (OB, Chapter 28, Kindle p. 292.) IMO, Tanavast imparted these attitudes to the Stormfather. CULTIVATION’S PLAN I believe Cultivation wants to end Desolations and “unite” Rosharan species to stimulate growth. I think her plan involves replacement of Tanavast, Rayse, and herself as Vessels. Tanavast is too rigid for growth, Rayse too dangerous, and she (like another cosmere heroine) will not want to live without her lover. Cultivation’s “Unite them” plan pushes species interactions and mutual understanding. Moash and Venli switch sides. Venli bonds with both Timbre and her voidspren. Kaladin sympathizes with the Singers. I think he’ll bond Yixli, the yellow voidspren who first found him. IMO, Yixli is a “protection” spren like Syl, and Syl will welcome her companionship. Syl’s growing friendship with Pattern shows her expanding tolerance, rare for an honorspren. (OB, Chapter 97, Kindle p. 908.) Her tolerance matches Kaladin’s. I believe Cultivation restores Sja-anat’s free will to create Glys and resist Odium. Sja-anat serves Cultivation’s transformative function when she “enlightens” spren. CULTIVATION’S IMPLEMENTATION OF PLAN Creation of Radiant Spren As the Shard of Transformation, I believe Cultivation created Radiant spren. Cultivation may have foreseen Aharietiam and needed a magical alternative to the Heralds that didn’t rely exclusively on Honor’s Investiture. Jasnah notes, “The difference between a higher spren like [Ivory] and a common emotion spren was in their ability to decide how to act.” (OB, Chapter 47, Kindle p. 479.) Free will seems important to Cultivation. Aharietiam With the Desolations’ pace quickening, civilization ground down. I’m sure far-seeing Cultivation knew Taln would endure torture millennia longer than other Heralds. Maybe Cultivation sought a healing respite and planted the seed of betrayal in the Heralds’ minds. Taln tells Ash, Recreance I still think there are more answers to the Recreance’s mystery. The Stormfather tells us, It’s plausible these fears caused the Recreance; but IMO Cultivation played a role. I can see a Shard who wants to transform Roshar preferring a new batch of spren and Radiants. Before he learns of the Eile Stele, Dalinar tells Yanagawn the Radiants “lost their vision [and] forgot their purpose: protecting Roshar for its people.” (OB, Chapter 56, Kindle p. 546.) The Stormfather says Honor “guarded against this [and] convinced the Radiants they were righteous…” (OB, Chapter 113, Kindle p. 1052.) As he lay dying, though, Honor “raved” and “promised that Surgebinders” would destroy Roshar. Maybe Cultivation wanted to kill the immortal witnesses to Honor’s raving. She silenced institutional memory until the Last Desolation, just as she pruned Dalinar’s memories. After the Battle of Thaylenah, Dalinar can remind the Radiants of their vision and purpose: “protecting Roshar for its people.” Dalinar does not distinguish among Roshar’s people. He knows the enemy is Odium, not the Singers. Dalinar will craft a war plan that focuses on the Fused. He will seek ways to separate Singers from their new masters. Venli and Rlain will help him. He will “unite them” – all Roshar’s people – to expunge Rayse’s ravages from Roshar. Odium Kills Tanavast I think Cultivation helped Odium kill Tanavast. He’d changed from the person Cultivation loved and was now more Honor than Tanavast. Under her own Shard’s Growth compulsion, I believe Cultivation felt she had no choice. There's two bits of textual evidence. First, Odium says “WE KILLED YOU.” (OB, Chapter 119, Kindle p. 1139.) I believe he needed an accomplice because he was "too shackled" to kill Tanavast on his own. (OB, Chapter 57, p. 550.) Second, the Stormfather says Odium avoids direct fighting since it “might coax out forces that could hurt him, as he has been hurt before.” (OB, Chapter 16, p. 167.) Odium must have known Cultivation would not intervene before he attempted Tanavast's murder. Maybe Cultivation warned Tanavast of his inevitable death. This may be why Honor delegated honorspren creation to the Stormfather. Kaladin says Honor “was setting up an heir.” (OB, Chapter 108, Kindle p. 1015.) Stormfather Becomes Tanavast’s Cognitive Shadow “ALL THINGS THAT CAN BE GROWN, NURTURED” includes the Stormfather, even if he is Honor’s godspren. Merging Tanavast into the Stormfather to await a new Vessel is what the Shard of Transformation might do. The Stormfather notes the change: I believe Cultivation wanted to preserve Tanavast’s mind and memories. She might be the author of Dalinar’s Stormfather-sent visions. Those don’t sound like the ravings of a dying god who fears Surgebinders will destroy Roshar. Illumination seems Cultivation’s specialty. Cultivation as much as Honor wishes to “unite them.” The merger prevented Honor’s power from splintering more than it did and infused that Investiture into the Stormfather: “We are something different. [Honor’s] remnants, your soul, my will.” (OB, Chapter 119, Kindle p. 1141.) Dalinar’s will and the Stormfather’s soul, fortified with Honor’s “remnants,” opened the Spiritual Realm to Dalinar’s command. The Stormfather by himself lacked the mental strength to renew spheres. (OB, Chapter 64, Kindle p. 639.) Cultivation has found a new Honor Vessel. Dalinar I think Cultivation’s touched Dalinar since his early days. The physician who attends him during the Battle of Narak seems shocked Dalinar can still move his scarred arm. (WoR, Chapter 83, Kindle p. 1003.) IMO, Cultivation’s Investiture healed Dalinar during his battle years. Dalinar’s Healing – Cultivation-light or Voidlight? @LerasiumMistborn lists “all the scenes where Dalinar feels this strange ‘warm light’ which comes from [an] unknown source.” I believe this is Cultivation-light. The first scene occurs at the end of WoR, Dalinar’s vision of his youthful home, “before…” (WoR, Chapter 89, p. 1065.) In a 2014 post, I note this scene foreshadows Dalinar’s Bondsmith role, as he transforms from violence to piety. The post mis-ascribes the source of the light as Honor, but it states Dalinar as Bondsmith will directly access the Spiritual Realm. I now believe Cultivation pushed Dalinar’s transformation by implanting memories (real or not) of his pre-Blackthorn days. I also now believe many of the “unite them” exhortations speak in Cultivation’s voice. Cultivation “prunes” Dalinar. She does not change him. She creates the conditions where he can change himself. Dalinar discovers, “When I fall, I will rise again a better man,” and “The most important step a man can take is the next step.” The Nightwatcher could not grant Dalinar forgiveness; Dalinar had to forgive himself. IMO, Cultivation gave him Evi’s last words when Dalinar was ready to hear them. Taravangian We don’t know if Cultivation or the Nightwatcher gave Taravangian his boon and curse, but I think Cultivation chose it. IMO, Cultivation foresaw Taravangian would serve Odium. Knowing Rayse, Cultivation anticipated he would meet Taravangian only on Taravangian’s “stupid” days. Odium doesn’t understand compassion – one of the strongest people Connections. At some future time, on a day of deepest compassion, I believe Taravangian will hurt Odium in some unforeseen way. I agree with consensus Cultivation helped Taravangian create the Diagram. Cultivation’s influence may be why Odium could not foresee Renarin, just as he cannot see Lift. The Diagram persuaded Odium that he could use Taravangian, a decision Odium IMO will regret. Confidence in the Diagram also causes its adherents to act predictably. That helps Cultivation grow Roshar to her desired future. Lift We don’t know the source of Lift’s boon and curse either, but again I think Cultivation chose it. Brandon says Lift hints at Cultivation’s non-boon/curse magic. I suspect soul transformation is at its core. Posters cite the value of food to produce Stormlight if the Everstorm were to blot out the highstorm and cause a Stormlight shortage. SUCCESSOR VESSELS Evidence supports many candidates who might become new Vessels. IMO, a Bondsmith is best positioned to ascend to their bonded godspren’s Shard. Cultivation If the current Vessel stands aside, I lean slightly toward Navani over Dalinar to become the Nightwatcher’s Bondsmith. In favor of Dalinar, Cultivation has already visited and transformed him. He sees Cultivation-light (IMO) when Navani does not. (OB, Chapter 122, Kindle p. 1228.) But Navani understands spren and their transformative power more deeply than Dalinar. Her problem: as a leading artifabrian, Navani heads the spren slave trade. IMO, she must learn the old fabrial method and repent her actions before the Nightwatcher would accept her as Bondsmith. I expect we’ll see this happen: Brandon wouldn’t have Dalinar wait years for Navani only to spend eternity alone if he ascends and she doesn’t. Some posters suggest Taravangian for the Nightwatcher’s Bondsmith. Aside from Cultivation’s help with the Diagram, I see little basis for this. If Cultivation did change Taravangian to oppose Odium, I suggest Odium wouldn’t leave much of him afterwards. Honor I do think Dalinar will ascend as Unity, if he hasn’t already. Will Unity be a new name for Honor, or will Unity include Odium? I can see Dalinar as Vessel for both Honor and Odium. A mind that deeply understands both could wield both. Brandon says, “Dalinar represents both the best and worst of both Honor and Odium” to Cultivation; and “young Dalinar is very Odium. Modern Dalinar is very Honor.” But Brandon might not want to repeat a plot device he uses elsewhere. Odium My favored candidate for Odium Vessel is Ba-Ado-MIshram. Hessi calls her “a highprincess among the enemy forces.” (OB, Chapter 106, p. 984.) Imitating Dalinar, BAM distributed Voidlight during the False Desolation as if she were an Odium Bondsmith. (OB, Chapter 80, p. 780.) A Singer Vessel makes sense if Cultivation wants to “unite them.” The problem with Odium is Rayse, not the Shard’s “primal force.” Like all Shards, there’s nothing inherently evil about Odium. Taln is another possibility. The Ancient of Stone is the Stoneward Order’s patron. I believe the Sibling is the Spren of Stone, and Taln may become the Sibling’s Bondsmith. Ulim and Yixli share human features. This suggests at least some Voidspren came with the Shin refugees from Ashyn. The Shin later revere the Great Spren of the Mountains, Szeth’s Aboshi. Is there some connection between Voidspren and the Spren of Stone? Yixli the protection voidspren moves on stone (OB, Chapter 23, Kindle p. 238), though maybe that’s just her spren group. If the Sibling is related to Voidspren, Taln might be a candidate for the Odium Vessel. CONCLUSION Lots of speculation on a small collection of facts. Even if wrong, I think the main idea is sound – Roshar’s divisions stall its growth, anathema to Cultivation. Her plan, whatever it is, must try to heal that. Final Thought: Dalinar tells Gawx/Yanagawn, “And maybe you are the leader Roshar needs, while I am just an emissary.” (OB, Chapter 56, Kindle p. 545.) Does that foreshadow Roshar’s leader after Dalinar ascends?

Mind and magic mingle on Roshar, a world of living ideas. Roshar’s Shards IMO resemble pieces of the Freudian mind. Honor is Freud’s super-ego; Odium is Freud’s id; and Cultivation is Freud’s ego. I think the Freudian mind provides a useful metaphor for the Shards’ conflict. Hear me out. Brandon says Honor is “the sense of being bound by rules, even when those rules, you wouldn't have to be bound by.” Honor sounds like Freud’s super-ego: “The super-ego…reflects the internalization of cultural rules, mainly taught by parents applying their guidance and influence….” Think Szeth’s oathstone. Odium’s “passion” sounds like Freud’s id: “the disorganized part of the personality structure that contains a human's basic, instinctual drives.” Says Odium, “I am lust, joy, hatred, anger, and exultation. I am glory and I am vice.” (OB, Chapter 57, Kindle p. 551.) You see this interplay most clearly in the Heart of the Revel scene (OB, Chapter 78). Revelers embrace pleasure heedless of super-ego-imposed duty. Likewise, Odium as id blasts away Dalinar’s super-ego – the culturally iconic, rule-making Way of Kings. (OB, Chapter 118.) In Freud’s terms, Desolations are super-ego-repressed compulsions of the id that periodically resurface. Cultivation “prunes” for long-term growth. This is the ego’s role: Freud says the ego is like a rider seeking to guide and restrain a willful horse (the id): “The super-ego's demands often oppose the id’s, so the ego sometimes has a hard time in reconciling the two….” (Source.) IMO, Cultivation created Radiant spren (through the Nightwatcher) as super-ego-like cultural ideals to help bind society, the antidote to basic instinctual drives. I think the Freudian mind analogy is interesting even if Brandon doesn’t intend it. The words “fiery surge,” “red lightning and impetuous rage,” and “desolation, void of light,” appear within eight lines of each other in John Milton’s description of Hell. (Paradise Lost, Book 1, lines 173-181.) Does Brandon intend that allusion? You don’t always know with authors. @Bigmikey357 gave me the idea for this topic when he said, “So basically Odium was Adonalsium’s id before they split up.” If you like the idea, credit him.

@Toaster Retribution, Odium may also want a Lightweaver to replace Re-Shephir because she can’t imitate humans and he wants a Mother of Lies who can: Maybe Odium will try to turn Shallan as he tried with Dalinar and offer her a path from her pain. He’ll bombard her with visions of her early childhood. We’ll finally see what horrors attracted Pattern so early in her life. Re-Shephir may once have been human herself. Odium may seduce Shallan with grand visions of future fame: As Re-Shephir succumbed then, Shallan threatens to now. Her “boys” come to save her. Brandon just confirmed the Fused did seek Elhokar’s Cryptic at the palace. (Thanks, @RShara!) Further reason to think Odium wants a Lightweaver with a built-in Cryptic. Here’s still another reason Kaladin and Adolin rescue Shallan: Mraize knows Sja-anat wants out of the Odium den. (I still think Mraize is a Dysian.) In Mraize’s last letter to Shallan, he charges her to persuade Sja-anat to help the Ghostbloods or capture Sja-anat for them. (OB, Chapter 122, Kindle pp. 1225-1226.) Maybe Odium discovers Sja-anat’s treachery, and the Fused take Shallan. Moash and his marbled band guard her. Come Kaladin and Adolin, and the rest plays out as the OP describes.

I believe Odium’s forces – led by Moash – will kidnap Shallan. I think Odium needs either a Lightweaver or a Cryptic for some reason – perhaps to “re-make” Re-Shephir, whose captivity seems to have diminished her. Kaladin and Adolin lead Shallan’s rescue attempt. Kaladin secures Shallan, and Adolin fights furiously to allow Kaladin and Shallan to escape. He demands Kaladin leave him and take Shallan to safety. With no other choice, Kaladin finally speaks the Fourth Oath – (IMO) “I will protect the one I can save.” That’s the summary; here are the details. There’s a bit of evidence here and there, but, needless to say, this post is mostly invention, a tale. Foreshadowing Kaladin’s faced this situation before, when the Fused wound Adolin in Shadesmar. “Leave me,” Adolin said, coughing.” (OB, Chapter 117, Kindle p. 1116.) But Kaladin couldn’t leave him and “couldn’t say those Words. He wasn’t strong enough.” (OB, Chapter 118, Kindle p. 1132.) I believe Kaladin will have a second chance. He will say the Fourth Oath this time. I do not predict Adolin will die (though that’s possible). Maybe he’ll be an Edgedancer by then and escape himself. But Kaladin IMO will leave Adolin to protect Shallan, the one he can save. Odium’s Need for Cryptic The best evidence Odium needs a Cryptic is the OB Epilogue, where Hoid bonds one. Hoid notices the Fused breaking down the palace, as if searching for something. The Fused are not keen on Radiant spren of any type. But to me this shows surprising dedication to find Elhokar's Cryptic. The Fuseds’ motivation is unclear, but I link it to Shallan’s encounter with Re-Shephir. Shallan and Re-Shephir Re-Shephir’s captivity traumatized it. When it meets Shallan, Re-Shephir wants to replace Pattern and bond Shallan: Re-Shephir now knows Shallan as well as Shallan knows it, the perfect environment for bonding. Shallan says Re-Shephir is like a “wrong” creationspren. I suspect Cryptics are like the “right” creationspren. IOW, creationspren form the base of both Re-Shephir and Cryptics, which is why Shallan attracts them. I speculate Re-Shephir needs to be “Re-Made” - it’s become too fearful. I envision two possibilities – start from scratch with a new Cryptic or bond Re-Shephir to a Lightweaver to stabilize it. Either way, Pattern and Shallan will be natural Odium targets. Moash Why Moash? Odium clearly has plans for him. His star rises among the Fused when he kills Jezrien and accepts the Honorblade and the name Vyre. (Will he form a relationship with Lady Leshwi?) The human Moash can scout and enter places Singers can’t readily go. Five Singers Moash helped and fought with “want to be near” him – Khen, Pal, Nam, and two others. (OB, Chapter 122, Kindle p. 1222.) I see them forming the rudiments of a Singer Bridge Four. They are a natural strike force to steal Shallan. If Moash (or Odium) noticed Kaladin’s agony at seeing his friends kill one another, this group will be hard for Kaladin to deal with. Adolin must take the larger role in the fight because Kaladin may not be able to kill his friends. I don’t think this will be the last Kaladin-Moash confrontation. I believe Moash retains his loyalty and friendship to Kaladin on simmer regardless of what he thinks of other humans and their society. In the end, I think this one Connection will be enough to cause Moash to waver. Only Brandon knows if Moash dies or changes sides again. Conclusion All of this is raw but, IMO, reasonable speculation. Something to ponder as a possibility, nothing more.

I went through my OB notes and came up with some ideas I’d like to let loose. Others may have anticipated them, but if so, I didn’t notice your posts. Please take your credit. IS MRAIZE A DYSIAN? Random reasons provoke this question: 1. Spy Network. Mraize and the Ghostbloods seem as informed as any group on Roshar. We know Dysians use their hordelings as spies. 2. Unseen Actions. Mraize delivers his messages to Shallan completely unnoticed. It’s as if he disassembles then reassembles in her room where he writes his notes. 3. Mraize’s Face. Mraize’s scarred face may mask his Dysian imperfections. Here’s how Shallan describes him at their first meeting: The second time Shallan meets Mraize, she observes “his scarred face, misaligned lip, and weathered hands… he looked like someone who had repeatedly had his bones broken….” (WoR, Chapter 54, Kindle p. 628.) 4. Mraize’s Age. Mraize calls Veil “child,” like Hoid calls Shallan and Jezrien (Ahu) calls Dalinar. This appellation surprises Shallan, since she made Veil appear older: This suggests (but doesn’t prove) Mraize may be pretty old himself. (He does call Shalash “Ancient One,” but that seems more respect than an indication of relative age.) Mraize as a Dysian also explains his contact with other Shardworlds – @Overlord Jebus theorizes (correctly IMO) that Dysian hordelings will foster inter-Shardworld communication. Of course, Mraize could also be a Hoid masquerade, but for now I’ll stick with a Dysian “from Thaylenah.” AN HONORSPREN OATH? Notum tells Kaladin, “’I’ve sworn an oath myself,’ the captain said. ‘To Honor, and to the truths we follow.’” (OB, Chapter 108, Kindle p. 1017.) This causes me to wonder: Must honorspren swear an oath to become an honorspren? Is it a rite of passage like confirmation? Do some “honorspren” refuse to vow? Are these the mistspren that sail the Honor’s Path? NALE’S FIFTH OATH Nale has spoken the Fifth Skybreaker Oath, which he says means he has become “the Law.” This seems wrong. Nale’s Divine Attribute is “Just,” which means he should embody Justice, not the Law. Instead, Nale derides Justice as inferior because mercy leads to recidivism: KR orders share their Herald’s Divine Attributes. Radiant spren IMO are attracted to people with the right Primary Divine Attribute – “protect” (Honorspren), “just” (Highspren), “brave” (Ashspren), “loving” (Cultivationspren), “learned” (Truthwatcher spren), “creative” (Cryptics), “wise” (Inkspren), “resolute” (Lightspren), “dependable” (Stoneward spren), and “pious” (the three Siblings). Radiant spren are living exemplars of these Attributes. I believe the Fifth Oath fully manifests Radiant spren in the Physical Realm. They merge Spiritwebs with their bonded mortal, who becomes the living exemplar of their Primary Divine Attribute. Nale should be Justice, not the Law. Since he thinks he’s the Law, I suspect Lift did not fully heal him. IS TIMBRE ICO’S DAUGHTER? Timbre may be Ico’s daughter. Ico is the captain of the spren ship that picks up Kaladin, Shallan, Adolin, etc. at Riino’s Shadesmar lighthouse. Ico is a Lightspren, the Willshaper spren. He tells Kaladin, “My daughter used to work [at the Celebrant moneychangers] before she ran off chasing stupid dreams.” (OB, Chapter 101, Kindle p. 948.) Something about that line sounds like Timbre is his daughter and ran off, like Syl did, to bond with a mortal. Maybe her “stupid dream” is to be first to bond a Singer. That’s something a Lightspren might want to explore. Timbre attunes to “Resolution” quite a bit, the Willshaper Primary Divine Attribute. HONOR AND ODIUM’S POWER I still believe Honor’s power “makes Connections” and Odium’s power “breaks Connections.” On Roshar that generally means “people” Connections. I think the Dalinar-Venli vision shows the full extent of the powers’ difference: Odium breaks. Honor binds. Threnody Spoiler That’s what I got for now.

@Calderis, Kaladin’s speed and direction shifts are MORE than just the fuel, as the WoB itself says: Fuel does not give or prevent “access” to multiple lashings. Maybe speed is arguable (Stormlight is gasoline to Voidlight’s diesel), though I think multiple lashings also cause Kaladin’s superior acceleration. Fuel, however, should not improve Kaladin’s ability to change direction. I read this to mean the Fused lack Kaladin’s lashing abilities – a function of the magic system itself. Kaladin’s ability to lash over and over and over is IMO the reason for his better short-term speed and direction-changing. The Fused are NOT “doing the exact same things other than altered limitations from the fuel source.” Oops! You got me! My memory leaks away like Stormlight… I’m unsure what “natural pairings” have to do with any of this, though. If the Fused did “hack” Surgebinding, then maybe they should also benefit from these “natural pairings” and manifest two abilities. FWIW, I think these pairings relate to Roshar’s essences: earth, fire, water, air and “aether” (or life). I explain why in this post. Here’s a quote: On "smaller magic systems": As your cited (and later in time) WoB says, Roshar only has three “major” magic systems – Surgebinding, Voidbinding, and fabrials. Brandon acknowledges the Old Magic as “it’s own weird thing,” and Khriss suggests in the SLA Ars Arcanum that there may be another, more “esoteric” system. “Thirty magic systems” refers to the number of magical abilities available to Rosharans – essentially, three different flavors of the same ten abilities. I do wonder how he counts fabrials as having only ten abilities, but whatever… Spren power two of the three “major” systems. Because Roshar’s “natural” sentient spren are each capable of manifesting a single Surge, I theorize Radiant spren combine two lesser spren that each give one ability. For example, Highspren combine Windspren and Flamespren (or Abrasionspren), or something similar. I’ve always assumed the Nightwatcher did this, since the Shards weren’t involved, and she has the capacity to transform Cognitive Investiture like spren. I can easily imagine this not being the case, but that’s my working assumption until we see otherwise. Not a big deal, but this seems backwards. Spren bonding and its lifecycle changes are natural and predate the Shattering and Roshar’s major magic systems. IOW, fabrials are mechanical Surgebinders and Voidbinders, not the other way around. By the same logic, I suppose you could call Allomancers “organic medallions.” I agree Odium exploits Singer physiology to reincarnate the Fused. I disagree such possession limits Fused magic to Surgebinding (“Yet another hack”). Singers can’t naturally Surgebind. Why would Odium restrict the Fused to inferior “hacked” Surgebinding when he can grant them Voidbinding? I think I summarized the Argent WoBs accurately. I said Renarin uses Stormlight to fuel non-Truthwatcher Illumination-binding. When Argent asks whether Renarin is Voidbinding, Brandon says, “No, but close.” @LiquidBlue, I also have wondered about this. Voidbinding might be hierarchical, which is consistent with how Odium and the Fused behave, but who knows? This is my “prime” post – number 373, a prime number that's the sum of five consecutive prime numbers (67, 71, 73, 79, and 83). Pretty cool!

I dissent. IMO, the Fused do Voidbind. Voidbinding uses both different fuel and different innate Investiture than Surgebinding. Both Investitures are Odium’s – it’s not a Surgebinding “hack.” Voidlight provides the fuel. and, as Cognitive Shadows, the Fused’s mind imprints on Odium’s Investiture, with a direct Connection to Odium. Here’s my reasoning: Initiation I think mortals gain Odium’s power when he “takes their pain” – Odium’s magic breaks the Connections to people that cause a mortal to feel guilt, shame, and responsibility. Odium’s Investiture fills the emotional Void the broken Connections leave, like spren fill other cracks in a broken soul. Metaphorically, Brandon seems to say an empty soul will fill with hate. Differences from Surgebinding Brandon says Shards differ only in “the means of getting power,” “the WAY the magic is obtained, not what it can do.” IOW, every magic system anywhere can theoretically grant the exact same abilities as every other magic system. Differences among systems arise from their Shard’s intent/mandate/expression, the planet, and the local population’s biology and culture. That suggests fewer differences when systems share a planet. Kaladin shifts speed and direction faster than the Fused because he does Surgebind. He can layer bindings to lash multiple G-force vectors. The Fused gain control over gravity (and other fundamental forces) by using an Investiture that IMO doesn’t bond. Voidbinding must rely on some other means of changing gravity. IOW, the Fuseds’ slower movements come from BOTH their magic system AND their different fuel. The “Surges” The fact Rosharans call Roshar’s fundamental forces “Surges” doesn’t make manipulation of those fundamental forces “Surgebinding.” Any Rosharan magic system – indeed, any magic system anywhere – will manipulate the same cosmere fundamental forces by whatever name locals call them. The Fused manifest only one ability because they don’t rely on Radiant spren, the only known Rosharan means of granting a magic user two abilities. Because Brandon says KR orders are “a combination of two of the ‘smaller’ magic systems in this world,” I believe each Radiant spren is a combination of two lesser spren. Odium, OTOH, is incapable of binding spren together – he can only corrupt spren. Fabrials The Fused are NOT “organic fabrials.” They don’t hold spren, which fabrials require. They substitute for gemheart spren when they possess a Singer’s body: Hariel tells Venli, “Unlike the witless Voidspren you bonded—which resides in your gemheart—my soul cannot share its dwelling.” (OB, Interlude I-6, Kindle p. 577.) Voidlight The Fused used Voidlight before both the False Desolation and the Everstorm. That suggests Voidlight may be an internal Investiture Odium feeds to the Fused through his Connection with them. Voidlight doesn’t automatically heal because its nature breaks Connections rather than re-binds them. Stormlight binds, Voidlight breaks – mirroring the difference between Honor and Odium. Comparison with Metallic Arts Just because Scadrial’s magic systems “differ functionally” doesn’t mean Rosharan magic systems need to. Shard-created Scadrial is unique. Ruin and Preservation are much more Invested there, with far greater influence, than are other Shards on their Shardworlds. Besides, I think I’ve shown Voidbinding IS “Manipulating the same surges, in a different manner.” FWIW, I also don’t think the Scadrian systems “use metal in drastically different ways.” Metal always acts the same way, as a magic system Focus: - Metal provides Allomancers a pathway to Preservation’s power and Focuses the power before it Invests the Allomancer. - Brandon says end-neutral Feruchemy also relies on a “facilitating power” from outside the Feruchemical gene. I believe metalminds’ metals are Focuses for drawing this power directly from Ruin and Preservation. This “facilitating power” fuels the Feruchemical gene’s magical effects. - I also think Ruin directly fuels Hemalurgy. Spiking (the “theft”) is an Intended act of entropy. IMO, that act of entropy draws Ruin’s power, which the metal spike then Focuses. Ruin’s Focused power enables the spike to transfer abilities. Glys and Renarin In the first Argent WoB, Brandon says Renarin is “close” to Voidbinding, but isn’t. I think Renarin is not Voidbinding only because he uses Stormlight as fuel rather than Voidlight. Glys’ Illumination-binding does seem to differ from a normal Truthwatcher spren’s. Unfortunately, we haven’t yet seen a normal spren use Illumination and can’t compare. Renarin and Glys are a true Surgebinding “hack” – a corrupted spren using Stormlight to Voidbind. That suggests pure Odium Fused who use Voidlight for their magic do not “hack” Surgebinding. Conclusion Voidbinding involves a different innate Investiture and fuel than Surgebinding. The magic systems initiate differently, and spren are not part of Voidbinding. Manipulating the planet’s same fundamental forces doesn’t turn Voidbinding into hacked Surgebinding. While it may be too early in SLA to conclude either way, IMO there’s strong reason to think the Fused do Voidbind. If not them, and not the Unmade, then who?

Written while sitting in an airport: For @Gancho Libre, @Calderis, and @Ashspren, an appreciation... Gancho, your poetry’s fine. But you might consider a line With words not just sounds So the meaning redounds And we all could see your design. Cal, your limericks swallow All hope of having us follow Your excellent lead. The rest of us need Something else in which we might wallow. [And, therefore, I move on to a sonnet…] Oh, Ashspren! What a truly wondrous poem! A sonnet that the Bard himself would like. Not easy to epitomize a tome – So many stories…which ones do you strike? “The sound must seem an echo to the sense.” So says the well-known Alexander Pope. He also wrote “True wit is nature dressed.” (I shortened it to fit within our scope.)* For you, Ashspren, are Pope’s poetic heir, Creating verse that satisfies his rules. Elantris is the perfect place to air Your entertaining use of sonnets’ tools. But I, like Gancho, favor sounds to words. I do my best, but sometimes I’m absurd. * The full line goes, “True Wit is Nature to advantage dress'd. What oft was thought, but ne'er so well express'd…” And if you think sonnets are stupid, John Keats agrees with you: “…beauty was awake! Why were ye not awake? But ye were dead To things ye knew not of, - were closely wed To musty laws lined out with wretched rule And compass vile: so that ye taught a school Of dolts to smooth, inlay, and clip, and fit, Till, like the certain wands of Jacob’s wit, Their verses tallied.” From “Sleep and Poetry.” Dan Simmons’ fans will recognize the resurrected Keats as a central character in his novels. Simmons’ Hyperion and Endymion are named after Keats poems. In my junior year of college, “Sleep and Poetry,” flawed as it is, converted me from pre-med to an English major. So much math and science, so little to show for it…

Here’s my beef: Brandon’s inconsistency about thermodynamics. I’ve talked about this for years. He exalts unifying cosmere laws in which thermodynamics figures prominently. Yet he makes the cosmere a perpetual motion machine in violation of those laws. If matter and energy can truly convert back into the powers of creation (raw Spiritual Realm Investiture), then the cosmere will never run out of energy, and entropy can decrease as well as increase. It’s a major flaw that IMO undermines the cosmere’s construction. I hope the cosmere’s “fourth” thermodynamic law (about Adonalsium) will save us from the perpetual cosmere. Investiture, energy, and matter should not be able to convert back into the powers of creation. Those powers are Adonalsium’s Spiritual Realm corpse. Once raw magic’s gone, it should be gone forever, converted into some other form of matter, energy or Investiture. But I’ve beaten that drum so long, I'm now deaf…

Cal, your theory seems to rest on the premise Investiture is limitless: “All Avatars…draw from the exact same pool and it is limitless.” I think Investiture (in all its forms) has an upper limit, though an unimaginably large one. I think this explains our divergent views. Brandon does say cosmere Investiture is “infinite”; but I think Brandon means “vast, immense, incapable of measure or comprehension,” not “limitless or endless.” (Those are all dictionary definitions.) Limitless Investiture IMO is contrary to cosmere thermodynamics. Here’s a post-Oathbringer WoB about this: If the sum of cosmere matter, energy, and Investiture is fixed (“Nothing’s growing or shrinking”), Investiture can’t be limitless. It can be infinitely divisible into smaller units (like a set of numbers), but a fixed amount of Investiture (in whatever form) intrinsically has limits, no matter how incomprehensibly vast that amount is. The cosmere narrative proves this. There would be no difference among Shards if each has a limitless store of Investiture to make magic with. Why should Rayse care that Sazed holds two Shards if both Vessels control a limitless amount of Investiture? Two times infinity is still infinity. That Odium does care means he does not view his power equal to Harmony’s. Brandon confirms this: “by raw power [Harmony] is stronger than Odium.” From this, I conclude Brandon doesn’t use “infinite” to mean limitless. There’s just an unimaginably large amount of Investiture. If Investiture has limits (even unimaginably large ones), Autonomy can’t increase the fixed amount of her Investiture through Avatar creation or otherwise. Sazed can direct twice as much Investiture as Rayse, yet their minds are presumably equal in capacity. IMO, a Vessel’s “finite mind” only affects where it focuses its attention (as @Argent puts it). But even their finite minds can make magic with all their known Investiture. Bavadin focuses her attention on finding pockets of her “assigned Investiture.” But this Investiture isn’t “new.” It’s always been there and has always been Autonomy-type Investiture even before the Shattering “assigned” it to Autonomy. Once she finds this Investiture, Bavadin could direct it herself without creating Avatars for this purpose. We don’t really know why she makes them. Brandon says in your quoted WoB that spren and Knight “are actually melding into one individual.” Swearing oaths is a process of growth and self-realization. (You would say, “cultivation.”) I think we agree the complete merger of spren and Knight doesn’t occur until the Knight swears the Fifth Oath. IMO, this WoB confirms our mutual view. To repeat, I believe there is a one-to-one relationship between minds and souls. Dysians have one mind and one soul but many bodies; but we haven’t yet seen cosmere entities with many minds and one soul. On the meaning of “Avatar”: Paragraph 8 of the OP shows Avatars and splinters have different origins. They are not the same thing. (I also think Neal Stephenson should get royalties each time someone defines “avatar” as a digital representation…)

@Calderis and I recently discussed the nature of Avatars on Discord. We ended up agreeing on some points and disagreeing on others. I thought the discussion interesting enough to share and memorialize here. Autonomy creates Avatars like Patji on First of the Sun. She finds deposits of the assigned Investiture she inherits from Adonalsium and infuses them with consciousness. The Avatars become autonomous actors. We don't know the degree of each Avatar’s autonomy. I think Cal and I agree: 1. Avatars share Autonomy’s pool of Spiritual Realm Investiture with her. 2. Avatar creation doesn’t change the aggregate amount of Autonomy’s Spiritual Realm Investiture available for magic. 3. As a logical corollary to the first two points, each new Avatar proportionally reduces how much Spiritual Realm Investiture is theoretically available to each previous Avatar and to Autonomy herself. 4. Avatars seem more powerful than most splinters. We disagree on these points: 5. Cal and @Spoolofwhool think Autonomy grants consciousness by implanting a seed of her mind into her found Investiture. They believe this “mind-split” is what allocates Autonomy’s power (her capacity to make magic), since cosmere power tends to be proportionate to the mind that wields it. They say Autonomy deliberately weakens her own mind (in small increments) to install this power balance. I instead think Autonomy programs a consciousness for each Avatar from raw Spiritual Realm Investiture and leaves her mind intact. IMO, Bavadin has no reason to diminish her finite mental capacity when she can use her infinite raw Investiture for the same purpose. Knowing Odium is on the prowl, why would Bavadin weaken herself in favor of her Avatars, who are localized on their Shardworlds? 6. Cal says Autonomy has more Spiritual Realm Investiture “available for use” than any other Shard. He attributes this to the Avatars. I agree Autonomy and her Avatars can collectively drain their Spiritual Realm Investiture pool at a faster rate than other Shards can. That’s the benefit of multiple minds directing the Investiture – it’s like inserting more straws into a drink. But since the aggregate volume of the Investiture pool remains constant, I disagree more Investiture is “available for use.” (Cal tells me he does not think “available for use” and “faster draw rate” are the same thing.) 7. Cal believes Avatars share a single Spiritual aspect with Autonomy, though each Avatar has its own Cognitive aspect. He says Radiant spren have a different Cognitive aspect from their Knight, and the Nahel bond nonetheless merges their souls. Cal analogizes this “one soul – two minds” to Avatars. I think each Avatar has its own Spiritual aspect. I believe every mind that imprints Investiture has its own soul. Each Avatar’s separate soul is made from Autonomy. They're probably Connected to one another and Autonomy in other ways. But IMO these Connections don’t cause the Avatars to share a Spiritual aspect any more than an honorspren made from Honor’s Investiture is part of Honor’s soul. I also think the Avatar-Radiant spren analogy breaks down because KR-spren minds and souls don’t fully merge until the KR swears the Fifth Oath (IMO). 8. I think splinters and Avatars have different origins. (I’m not sure what Cal believes about this.) Splinters are bits of raw Spiritual Realm Investiture that develop sentience (sometimes on their own, sometimes granted by Shards). Avatars are deposits of Autonomy’s Investiture Adonalsium left on Shardworlds to which Autonomy grants consciousness. IOW, splinters descend from the Spiritual Realm while Avatars incorporate Investiture that already exists in all three Realms. * * * * * Please add your opinions. Cal, did I express your views accurately?

@Calderis, Brandon does use “soul” and “Spiritweb” interchangeably. Technically, I think a Spiritweb includes the Connected souls, since Allik says “Connection can’t just be connected to nothing.” A “web” requires Connected points. But I see no practical difference between the definitions. Except for a magic user’s extra sDNA, I agree a cosmere soul is “just information.” Each soul’s “record” represents its space-time location and the souls it Connects with. The record also includes the Spiritual Realm aspect of each Physical and Cognitive Realm trait. This record is imprinted on the local Shard’s “raw Investiture.” This record is changeable. Your personality, your “you-ness,” is mostly Cognitive, but IMO that’s not your soul. I think changes in your “you-ness” automatically re-write the soul’s record in the Spiritual Realm - people, place and time Connections are editable values. The body holds physical traits, the mind holds personhood, and the soul holds the “perfect record” of that information. I see a Cognitive Shadow as a mind and soul that loses its Connection to the Physical Realm. IIRC, Brandon’s unclear whether Cognitive Shadows retain their original souls. What if the mind writes its record on different Investiture than its original soul’s Investiture? Kelsier imprinted his mind on the Well’s Investiture. Is that the same soul as his original soul because it retains the same record? Brandon would probably tell us “some in-world scholars would say….” @Slimy_Slider, as I see it, Brandon doesn’t imbue cosmere souls with morality. (He explicitly says this about the Shards.) IMO, the idea of cosmere soul as Spiritual Realm information record is neither “complex” nor “perspective-based.” I think cosmere souls have nothing to do with “The Beyond, and afterlives in general.” I agree Brandon defers those questions to in-world and our own sensibilities. Thanks for the comments!

On Discord, we recently talked about souls and Spiritwebs. Most there think these are identical terms. I’m not so sure, but the differences don’t matter. More interesting is Brandon’s concept of soul. I quote relevant WoBs in full at the end by bracketed number. Cosmere Souls Defined Brandon says, [1] “a person's Spiritual aspect [is] a mix of their connections to places, people, and times with raw investiture. The soul, you might say.” The soul is the “perfect version” of that person. Elsewhere he adds, [2] “each person is a node” between “concepts” in a Spiritweb. [3] This WoB says something similar. Here’s how I read Brandon: Each soul (a Spiritweb “node”) exists at the intersection of its Connections to its “place, people and time.” The soul’s sDNA is made from the local Shard’s Investiture. A. These four elements define a cosmere soul – what it’s made of, where it’s located in space and time, and whom it relates to. Brandon makes no moral claims for souls. Even inanimate objects have souls. B. Cosmere souls change moment by moment as Connections form, grow, wither and die. We meet new people, time goes by; we forget old friends. This is why Shai’s soul stamps are applied to the emperor daily. C. Brandon says [1] “your age is part of your Connection to places, people and times.” TLR died because his soul knew his true age. D. [4] People have Physical DNA, Spiritual DNA and Cognitive DNA. [5] sDNA is “inherited similarly, but not 100% identically, to regular DNA.” [6] On Scadrial, one identical twin might be Mistborn and the other not. [7] Atium and lerasium are “just normal matter…wrapped in the Spiritual. The Spiritual DNA…is what makes it magical.” E. Even after death, [8] “the spiritweb doesn't completely break down (just like your body doesn't immediately break down.) Even after a long time, there's a record of that spiritweb in the spiritual realm.” I think Brandon means your Spiritweb persists after you’ve physically died as long as people remember you in your place and time. These people stay Connected to you. As they die and memory of you fades and ends, information entropy fully claims your Spiritweb “record.” Allik tells Marasi how souls and Connections work (BoM Chapter 22, Kindle p. 302): Allik changes his Connection to speak the local language because “Connection can’t just be connected to nothing.” His soul still recognizes his genome and place of origin, giving him his distinctive accent. [FWIW, the main reason I believe your Spiritweb includes more than your soul is “Connection can’t just be connected to nothing.” IMO, the Connected souls themselves (your mother and your planet, for example) are part of your Spiritweb but not part of your soul.] How Does a New Type of Soul Form? I believe Spiritual Realm Investiture forms a new type of soul when a mind defines that soul. Adonalsium designed cosmere life and created the new soul form (its sDNA) for each species. I think a Shardworld’s collective mind defines the souls of its non-living objects. In TES (Day Thirty, Kindle p. 75), Shai tells Gaotona: Shai believes collective thought creates a window’s soul. Pattern echoes Shai in this conversation with Shallan (WoR, Chapter 24, Kindle pp. 308-309): IOW, Shadesmar’s collective perception defines the table’s soul. Its soul is “the truth the people create for it.” Free-floating fragments of Spiritual Realm Investiture IMO also don’t form a soul and become a splinter until some mind defines them. These fragments may become sentient by themselves; or a Shard may grant it sentience; or a Shard may imprint some ideal onto its Investiture (like Honorblades and Divine Breath); or the collective mind defines it. Pattern says “Spren are . . . power . . . shattered power. Power given thought by the perceptions of men.” (WoR, Chapter 24, Kindle pp. 309.) In ironic reversal of Adonalsium’s creation of men, men define the souls of the “little bits of god” that constitute spren. Relevant WoBs This Spoiler quotes in full each cited WoB by bracketed number.

Before the next Shardcast addresses this question, I thought I’d try. Posters describe Odium as hateful emotion, a consuming passion, a “fervor.” But Brandon says Shards represent some “primal force” like stasis or entropy – some universal “fundamental law” – not some aspect of Divine Personality. The Spoiler parses the WoB that IMO confirms this. Brandon describes Honor’s primal force as “the sense of being bound by rules, even when those rules, you wouldn't have to be bound by.” The Stormfather says, “There are no foolish oaths. All are the mark of men and true spren over beasts and subspren. The mark of intelligence, free will, and choice.” (OB, Chapter 4, Kindle p. 60.) Voluntary adherence to rules that structure society IS a “mark of intelligence, free will, and choice.” Passion, emotion, and hate are NOT choices people make. They are primal appetites that drive people’s behaviors. Unrestrained, these appetites push out self-control and discipline and leave you with the mindless compulsions of Nergaoul and Ashertmarn. Foreshadowing Dalinar’s “Unity” moment, he tells Navani, “Control is important to me…You know how I was, what I became, when I was a man with no control.” (OB, Chapter 4, Kindle, p. 56.) This suggests the “primal force” of the Odium Shard relates to these primal urges: lust, the need to conquer, overindulgence, or any other behavior that looks only to the person’s own needs without consideration for the needs of others: “I’m not to blame.” The Odium-filtered Singer Rhythms – ridicule, derision, spite – are anti-social behaviors that push people away or separate them into command and subservience. Hate divides. Odium IMO breaks Connections between people to expose their bedrock behaviors. When Odium “takes their pain,” he severs the Connection between that person and the cause of their pain. These broken Connections leave the person numb, not feeling the restraints relationships with others bring. That exposes the person’s raw appetites, their primal urges, their “passions.” That’s why I conclude Odium is the Shard of passion/emotion “sort of.” He gives his magic by breaking the Connections that make society possible. All he leaves are individual passions.

Brandon says the cosmere follows its own rules of thermodynamics. This post explores how those rules might apply to magic systems and planets. Here are cosmere thermodynamics’ four “laws”: 1. The sum of the cosmere’s matter, energy, and Investiture is constant. These substances change form and convert into one another. 2. As a closed system, the cosmere’s entropy never decreases but moves towards equilibrium. 3. The third thermodynamic law states there’s no entropy in a perfect crystal at absolute zero (Kelvin). Is this how perfect gems hold the Unmade in total stasis without an entropy cost (even if not absolute zero)? 4. Brandon says there’s a fourth cosmere law that has to do with Adonalsium. ASIDE: While not relevant to this post, I speculate the fourth law is an exception to the first law: every substance is inter-convertible EXCEPT substances cannot convert back into the cosmere’s original substance, the “powers of creation.” I believe these powers are the remnants of Adonalsium’s soul; and Shards and magic users pull these powers from his Spiritual Realm corpse. If other substances could convert back into these powers, the cosmere IMO would be a perpetual motion machine that decreases entropy and violates thermodynamics’ second law. If I’m right about this fourth law, the cosmere will instead eventually wind down. Magic System Thermodynamics In this WoB, Brandon explains how Spiritual Realm Investiture ensures thermodynamic compliance even with “end neutral” Feruchemy: This makes sense. Imagine you have ten units of strength you wish to store as Investiture in your metal mind. When you reconvert that Investiture into strength, you get the full ten units back. The thermodynamic problem Brandon addresses is the energy cost of each conversion. Conversions are not free, just like thawing water costs energy. External Spiritual Realm Investiture supplies “the power…facilitating that transfer.” The alternative would be loss of attributes upon reconversion or cannibalization of the Feruchemical gene. IOW, either some of the metal mind’s stored Investiture or the Feruchemical gene’s Investiture would be used to “facilitate the transfer.” We know that doesn’t happen, and Brandon’s WoB explains why. A contrary view claims the cost of Feruchemical conversion is itself a storable attribute. Maybe I don’t understand this view, but it seems to violate thermodynamics’ second law (entropy). Either conversion costs energy, or it doesn’t. Brandon says it does, and external power pays that cost. Otherwise, the Feruchemist would have to pay it. IOW, conversion in BOTH directions costs energy – you can’t store and recover that cost in and from a metal mind because it’s already been spent. Brandon elsewhere acknowledges Spiritual Realm Investiture’s role in the “net positive” magic systems’ thermodynamics. He says the “energy [that] passes through…from another place…is my get-out for the laws of thermodynamics.” This WoB is five years older than the first one, which I believe supersedes this older WoB’s comments about Feruchemy. Planetary Thermodynamics I believe every planet needs Spiritual Realm energy to grow, and every planet returns energy to the Spiritual Realm when the planet tips into decline. This follows from thermodynamics’ first law that the cosmere’s Investiture, matter, and energy is constant. Let’s look at Roshar as an example. When Roshar was young, the planet supported fewer lifeforms than it does now. It takes time to populate a continent, especially one that rises from the oceans after the planet’s formation. Growing that continent and its lifeforms into matter takes energy and/or Investiture. Thermodynamics’ first law means the conversion of energy and Investiture into matter reduces the amount of Roshar’s energy and Investiture. If Roshar were a closed system, at some point Roshar would cease to grow. It would have insufficient energy and Investiture to support its lifeforms. The lifeforms die (reducing Rosharan matter) and return Investiture and energy back to the system. It’s theoretically possible Roshar never reaches this tipping point because Stormlight is plentiful and may prove enough to support the planet. But we know planets are not closed systems. They are connected through both the Spiritual and Cognitive Realms. Commerce between planets by itself shifts matter, energy, and Investiture from one to the next In some ways, the Spiritual Realm acts like a central bank. Planets borrow Investiture from it during their growth phases and return that Investiture when they wane. IOW, the thermodynamic laws apply to the whole cosmere, which is a closed system, and not to individual planets, which IMO are not closed systems. Conclusion Maybe it’s just me, but I think this stuff is important. Every magic system IMO must obey thermodynamics. Allomancers and Sand Masters, for example, use their internal body heat to “burn” metals and water (dehydrate). That action kick-starts the magical process. I find “follow the energy flows” is a good mantra for magic system analysis.

I interpret OB’s text and the SLA plot to mean Odium intends human genocide. Maybe human death is a necessary part of Honor and Cultivation’s destruction, but that doesn’t explain what binds Odium to Roshar. Other explanations for human genocide, like Rayse hates humans or Divine Hatred must destroy, don’t work for me narratively. Instead, I theorize humans carry Odium Investiture they brought with them from Ashyn. I speculate Honor bound that Investiture to them. I think human genocide returns Odium’s Investiture to its source. Does Odium Want Rosharan Humans Dead? Desolations alone show Odium wants to eradicate humans. IMO, his negotiation with Taravangian at the end of OB confirms his goal (Chapter 122, Kindle pp. 1216-1217, emphasis added): Odium insists on few human survivors. He threatens to walk when Taravangian rejects Odium’s counter-offer. He coerces Taravangian’s acceptance. I trust Taravangian’s compassion: If he feels humankind is doomed, he believes it. I think Odium’s deal may save only now-living Kharbranth humans: “any humans who have been born into it, along with their spouses.” Odium omits children. He might have added, “or those who will be born…” If that’s the “spirit” of Odium’s deal, Rosharan humanity may end in a generation. Those are my reasons to think Odium wants to eradicate Roshar’s humans. Why would he make that his goal? What Does Human Genocide Gain Odium? Rosharan humans come from Ashyn (mostly). That planet’s magic derives from magical microbes: “Viruses and bacteria, various strains of them, have evolved in-line with the investiture on the planet to grant you a magical ability when you catch the disease…” Ashyn’s Investiture is presumably Odium’s. @Vortaan theorizes Stormlight makes humans disease-resistant and deprives them of their Ashyn magic. Brandon says Ashyn magical abilities end when the human host is healthy again: "You can fly as long as you have the common cold, but when you get over it, you can't anymore.” But does Odium’s Investiture disappear when the host is healthy and the microbe dies? The microbe’s death may end the magical ability, but the Investiture may remain inside the human host. That would leave every Ashyn human who ever got sick holding Odium’s Investiture. If they can pass that Investiture to their progeny, every living Roshar human probably holds Odium inside them. I theorize Honor traps Odium by binding that Investiture to humans. Maybe Honor first restricts humans to Shinovar to ban them from Stormlight. All is well until humans proliferate Roshar. Now Odium the Broken One wants his Investiture back. That’s my explanation (for now). I welcome yours.

@John203, you asked me this on the Pathways thread, and I put my answer there. To repeat, I believe every Shard can (mostly) do the same things as every other Shard, but only in their own way. We know Roshar’s Shards all have foresight (by whatever name). Cultivation (and probably Odium) are better at it than Honor. Preservation is better at it than Ruin. These abilities belong to each Shard. If there is a Shard Fortune, it would be best at foresight but would hold no monopoly on that power. Feruchemical Fortune IMO comes from Preservation and Ruin, not the hypothetical Shard Fortune. Also, Brandon says, “when they use the word ‘fortune,’ do they mean exactly what the Feruchemical – and the answer is no. But it is a very similar concept.” I don’t think it’s entirely linked to Hoid “being no longer quite human.” I think Relativity’s time dilation plays a major role, since Hoid travels the Cognitive Realm so much. Also, any Investiture prolongs life regardless of source. We don’t know how old Hoid was, but we do know only Frost is older than him: First, Brandon RAFOs whether Fortune is a Shard; he doesn’t answer the question. Second, I explain above why Ruin’s power grants foresight. Third, your WoB does not say Fortune is a mechanic: Fortune has significance, or it wouldn’t be capitalized. Brandon could have said, “I needed some foreshadowing for people to see versions of the future,” and leave Fortune out of it. Fortune, then, must be a means of seeing the future. Atium is another means to see the future, as are Aviar in their way. Odium congratulates Taravangian for the Diagram, noting he lacked access to “Fortune or the Spiritual Realm.” Does this mean Fortune is a “mechanic” or some other kind of Spiritual attribute? Maybe. But it could just as easily be a Shard’s name. We don’t know yet.

This has been discussed a lot. Here’s my speculation (which someone’s probably anticipated): 1. Gemstones attract specific spren if you give the spren something it wants. 2. Pre-Shattering, Rosharan gemhearts attract and hold Adonalsium spren. IMO, this shows Adonalsium’s Investiture can be captured in gemstones. 3. Maybe the Vessels Shattered Adonalsium by each holding a different gemstone to attract a different aspect of Adonalsium? They must have done something more to make this happen, but maybe their aim was to funnel power through the gemstone and into themselves. 4. Hoid may have chosen/been assigned the “First Gem,” the Topaz. I speculate something went wrong in the process. Frost, Edgli and others suggest Hoid voluntarily abandoned his chance at godhood. Regardless, Hoid did not ascend and the gem is now “dead.” 5. What if Hoid had been assigned Fortune? The incomplete ascension changed Hoid’s nature until he’s not homo sapiens anymore. The unattached Fortune Investiture dissipates into the cosmere, but Hoid can still figure out where and when to be. FWIW, I’m not yet convinced Fortune isn’t another Vessel’s Shard, rather than some nebulous “Spiritual attribute.” This speculation hedges my bet.

Really? That's a bummer. Maybe MeLaan knew Wayne before she realized she knew him?

Thank you, @The One Who Connects! I remember reading that WoB and couldn't find it again. Brandon confirms Adonalsium is the "somebody" who creates the continent. IIRC, that WoB is the only time Brandon names him. To me, this supports the Spren of Stone as the continent's consciousness. It shows the Spren of Stone equates to the Adonalsium-created "spren" and "wind." For @Calderis' attention: Back to the topic at hand: Here are some WoBs from the OP that say crem builds up atop underlying rock: FWIW, I half-joked on that Julia Set thread that the Rosharan continent was a giant greatshell: We know a lot more about the continent than we did four years ago. It would be ironic if the continent is alive … Does it slouch towards the Origin to be born? Here’s another WoB: And another: The WoB you cite supports the OP’s main point. “Somebody” – Adonalsium – used fractal mathematics principles and “grew themselves a continent.” Like the Patji Pantheon also grown from the ocean floor, I believe the Rosharan continent and the Spren of Stone are now associated with Autonomy – the Spren is Autonomy’s “assigned Investiture.” You’re right, but I think we have seen “hints at the kandra,” even if they may be red herrings. Rial is a Dalinar bodyguard. His name is an anagram for “liar.” IIRC, Rial first appears in OB. He likes to drink, acts too familiar with Dalinar, and fiddles with his hat. As a guess, I think Rial is MeLaan adopting Wayne’s mannerisms. FWIW, Sebarial also seems an imposter. His name is an anagram for “base liar.” He too keeps close to Dalinar. If not a kandra, maybe he’s Dysian? Something else? You’re right again, but I don’t suggest when other Shards appear. They may not show up much before SLA’s ending, to segue into the next series. I think the OB Letters already foreshadow other Shards’ roles in the saga. Regardless, IMO the identity of the Sibling and its relationship to Urithiru is independent of the Sibling’s relationship with Autonomy. We don’t need to know the Sibling is Autonomy’s “assigned Investiture” for the plot to work. @Elenion, thank you for the information and an upvote for the effort! I think Brandon chooses a different metamorphic mechanic – magic. Adonalsium built the continent and exerted magical pressure on the rocks. Easy work for a god…

Autonomy’s Rosharan Role Brandon’s already introduced other Shards to Roshar: Harmony has sent kandra there. The question is the extent of other Shards’ involvement. Brandon tells us Autonomy has “assigned Investiture” on Roshar. I believe at some point in some way at some level Autonomy will inevitably get involved. I think Brandon foreshadows this: Based on Patji, Taldain, and this WoB (IMO, among the all-time best), I conclude the third Sibling is now “of Autonomy.” Autonomy never Invests Roshar. The Roshar land mass pre-exists the Shattering. IMO, Autonomy doesn’t even know of her Rosharan Investiture. The plot doesn’t require us to know or care right now either. I think the OP’s cited WoBs amply support the Spren of Stone as the third Sibling regardless of any Autonomy Connection. But when Autonomy does discover her Rosharan Investiture, I believe she will “tweak, influence, and do things” there. They may not be big things or good things. A Shard whose Vessel is a dragon (IMO) and who values “autonomy” may not be kind to humans who bond her avatar. @RShara, apart from Brandon’s desire to separate series, what “thematically” makes outside Shard involvement a “bad idea”? Is this the only post you discuss this? I don’t disagree with your thought – to me, it’s a question of degree. I too would hate to see a fourth Shard show up in a big way. But I think you discount “Investiture assignment” if you think Cusicesh must be of a resident Shard. Crem @Agent34, you’re right. Crem itself is probably some oceanic micro-lifeform that’s “of Cultivation.” I analogize crem to Taldain’s microflora, which post-Shattering may also be assigned to Cultivation. Any Investiture will charge Taldain’s microflora without turning it red. Crem seems the same. I also believe co-option/corruption affects innate Investiture, not kinetic Investiture that bakes into a lifeform. Slate Ouch! Never rely on a 50-year-old memory from 9th grade Earth Science…The problem is Roshar doesn’t have plate tectonics. As the Forums’ resident geologist, @Elenion, what do you think could generate the heat and pressure on Roshar to metamorphose rock? (Does Roshar also have non-Soulcast marble?) Cultivation as “Stone” Odium says Cultivation cares only about “transformation,” which I believe is how Cultivation “expresses” her “nature” (in Jofwu’s terms). Khriss identifies spren as “transformative cognitive entities.” Hesina says spren are the “soul of change.” To me, these statements all identify transformation/change with both Cultivation and spren. I think the Shattering assigned “wind” to Honor (the Stormfather), “spren” to Cultivation (the Nightwatcher, who also transforms), and “stone” to the Spren of Stone. Again, saying the Spren of Stone is “of Autonomy” doesn’t mean any historic or ongoing role for Autonomy. It’s just Autonomy’s Rosharan assigned Investiture. As someone else recently theorized, Shards probably have assigned Investiture on almost every planet. They may not be able to access or use it for one reason or another.

Brandon says the Shattering assigned all existing Investiture to one of the Shards. I believe Roshar, the planet’s land mass, is assigned to Autonomy. “Somebody” raised that land mass from the sea just like Autonomy’s avatar raised Patji. Because I believe the “Spren of Stone” is the third Sibling, I think that Sibling now belongs to Autonomy. Analysis I quote the relevant WoBs below. Bracketed numerals refer to that numbered WoB. Roshar is “a pretty weird planet…a created planet.” [1.] To me, this implies Adonalsium may have created Roshar after the cosmere’s creation. Roshar specifically incorporates Adonalsium’s “touch and design.” The Eila Stele names the Singer gods “spren, stone, and wind.” Most believe the wind and spren are the Stormfather’s and Nightwatcher’s pre-Shattering predecessors. I agree with posters who think the third Sibling is the Spren of Stone. I think the Spren of Stone is the Rosharan continent’s consciousness. I believe the figure hovering above the blue disk with outstretched arms in Urithiru’s basement is that consciousness, as it raises the continent from Roshar’s oceans (the disk). The Spren of Stone IMO is the “somebody” who specifically designs and creates Roshar’s land mass according to fractal mathematics principles. [2, 3.] The continent surfaces from Roshar’s oceans after the planet’s creation. (The Horneater Peaks above the crem-line hold slate, a sedimentary rock. [6.]) I suspect Szeth’s “great spren of the mountains,” his people’s aboshi, is another name for (or a subspren of) the Spren of Stone. Kaladin notices Kholinar’s windblades resemble Urithiru’s striations, maybe another manifestation found near every Oathgate city. Highstorms bury the continent in crem. [4.] Even pre-Shattering crem carries Invested nutrients, supporting native flora and farmers. [9, 10.] Rosharans don’t know, or even ask, where crem comes from. [8.]. “On Roshar…environmental factors ARE magical components.” [7.] I think crem now comes from Autonomy. It’s the same pattern as Taldain (IMO). Invested water circulates through the atmosphere. On Taldain, solar radiation Invests the oceans, which the natural water cycle distributes. On Roshar, the highstorm distributes crem gathered from Roshar’s oceans. We don’t know the source of crem’s oceanic Investiture – could it come from Roshar’s sun? And could Dysian Aimians now be of Autonomy? They too are a magic-wielding autonomous consciousness. Their magic broadly resembles Sand Mastery. Both cause remote objects to take a commanded shape. A Dysian does that with his body parts, not microflora. Something to chew on, maybe… I do think Autonomy will yet be moved to look at Rosharan events. If Bavadin hasn’t already, she/he may soon realize the scope of her Investiture there. I believe we’ve been “foreshadowed.” Relevant WoBs 1. Roshar is “a pretty weird planet…a created planet.” Source. 2. Roshar “is modeled after the Julia Set. Which is meant to indicate that Roshar was designed specifically…[and not] through crem buildup.” Source. 3. “The whole idea that this is a fractal-- The whole point of that is, somebody built this. Somebody built this using mathematics that you know. They said ‘Oh. Boom. Bing!’ and grew themselves a continent.” Source. 4. “The geography on Roshar was developed as a natural outgrowth of the highstorm…. I had to find a mechanism by which stone was deposited by rain, because I felt that the constant weathering over that long of a time would leave no continents…. They don't have plate tectonics. The continent actually moves as it gets weathered on the east and gets pushed that direction over millennia of time.” Source. 5. Roshar’s continent is not composed solely of crem. Source. 6. “Horneater peaks you're probably going to get into some more slate, some more dark grays and things like this, weathered stone that doesn't have the crem buildup because the peaks are gonna pop up above where the crem is building up, so.” Source. 7. “On Roshar, the environment and magic are so intertwined, environmental factors ARE magical components.” Source. 8. Where crem comes from is “one of the greater mysteries. Far in the future, scientists on Roshar will start asking that same question.” Source. Brandon RAFOs whether the Everstorm creates crem. Source. 9. “Even pre-Shattering [stormwater] would get a metallic taste, that's the crem. So. That is an indication of Investiture and things. But it was there – It was in place first, before.” Source. 10. “[Both natural flora and farmers] have to get all of [their] minerals and things basically have to come from the crem.” Source. 11. Brandon says crem is “more like Shard poop” than spren poop, though it’s “not really poop.” Sources One and Two. He also laughs off the question whether Lift’s “metabolic waste” holds crem but doesn’t specifically RAFO it. Source.