Confused

I just can't resist these...Why did you bring them back! Taravangian’s boon was capacity To overcome Rayse’s rapacity. He surrendered for little So here is the riddle – Compassion or ruthless sagacity? Navani’s a whiz with a fabrial And understands spren to a fare-thee-well. Will she be the Bondsmith The Nightwatcher bonds with? How cozy! Two Bondsmiths are marital! Kaladin’s scared to protect Those he knows he’ll be forced to reject. So Shardplate eludes him – The Fourth Oath denudes him – A callous he’ll form, I suspect. Shallan has a split personality. She needs it to maintain her sanity. But Adolin fears Veil at Kaladin leers – An affront to his still-damaged vanity? In Thaylen town Odium fought. It was Dalinar Odium sought To make him his Champion. The Thrill couldn’t handle him And inside a ruby was caught. Szeth, Lift and Nightblood are cute. Szeth flies and Lift crouches to scoot. Nightblood says, “You must free me,” Szeth answers, “No, Nimi.” Together, to me, they’re a hoot. Are Hesina and Hessi the same, Or a daughter and mother of fame? Will Kal be the grandson Of the light-eyed matron Who identified each Unmade’s name?

Hi, @Yata! Finally getting back to you. Thanks for your patience. I assume in this post that spren are Roshar’s Focus. I know some disagree, but I don’t want to debate that here. I think Cultivation “prunes” Sja-anat to give her free will: “A CAREFUL EXCISION TO LET YOU GROW,” as she explains pruning to Dalinar. (OB, Chapter 114, p. 1079.) I believe Cultivation keeps the bit of Sja-anat she cuts away – Glys – since Cultivation also keeps what she prunes from Dalinar: “IT WILL DO ME WELL TO HAVE A PART OF YOU.” Cultivation IMO then transforms Glys into a Nahel-bondable voidspren who Focuses foresight and healing. Cultivation grafts her Investiture onto Glys (the opposite of pruning) to make this happen. This commingling of Investiture causes his red color. [QUESTION: How come mixed Honor and Cultivation Investiture in Radiant spren doesn’t turn them red? Has Brandon answered this yet?] Ivory identifies Glys as a voidspren: “That is a spren of Odium, Ivory said. Corrupted spren.” (OB, Chapter 116, p. 1098, bold added.) IOW, Glys is mostly of Odium. Cultivation IMO “corrupts” Glys when she transforms him. Cultivation tells Dalinar, “I CONTROL ALL THINGS THAT CAN BE GROWN, NURTURED. THAT INCLUDES THE THORNS.” (OB, Chapter 114, p. 1079.) I read this to mean Cultivation controls all life including all spren. The “thorns” IMO are the sharp-edged lifeforms – dangerous creatures like Dalinar. I believe voidspren are also “thorns” that Cultivation controls. That’s why she can prune Sja-anat and transform Glys. Spren IMO Focus the powers of the Shard whose Investiture composes the spren. This resembles the Allomantic use of atium (Preservation’s magic system) to access Ruin’s power. Voidspren Focus Odium; and Radiant spren Focus Honor and/or Cultivation (until Glys). Glys does not hold Honor’s Investiture, and I don’t believe he needs to. Surgebinding to me has two magical components: the Radiant spren and the Nahel bond. I think Radiant spren Focus power, and the Nahel bond gives the Surgebinder control of the Focused power. Glys doesn’t need Honor to Focus foresight and healing; and Surgebinding doesn’t need spren holding Honor’s Investiture unless they Focus Honor’s power. FWIW, I believe honorspren are 100% Honor, contrary to a recent Discord discussion. Captain Notum says Honor created honorspren but then delegated that duty to the Stormfather. Post-Recreance, the Stormfather made only ten more honorspren. These ten, according to Notum, “created” other honorspren. Syl is the only Stormfather-created honorspren to survive the Recreance. Unless Honor and the Stormfather could create honorspren made from Investiture not their own, then all honorspren are 100% Honor. Finally, the OP says, “I do think Sja-anat is capable of corrupting Radiant spren, and she may have corrupted them in the past.” Pre-OB I wrote fear of Radiant spren corruption was the true reason for the Recreance. I still believe that, which is one reason (among many) I discount the Eila Stele translation.

Thank you, @Calderis, for taking the time to write such clear answers. I generally agree with you. Let’s see if we can close the gap further. Meaning of “Powers” I’m okay calling a magic system’s granted abilities (its outputs) “powers.” Can we use the term “Spiritual energy” to describe the Shard's inputs: Spiritual Realm Investiture not part of a soul (what Syl and Wax call the “powers of creation”)? And can we call the Spiritual Realm Investiture that composes souls “Spiritual matter”? These names highlight how the Realms correspond. The names also fit cosmere thermodynamic laws. But I’m okay if you want to call this stuff “SRI-1” and “SRI-2,” if we understand each other. You now seem to agree that Spiritual energy is the “investiture that fuels [system abilities and] is largely the same” in the Spiritual Realm. What does your “largely” exception exclude? To me, Spiritual energy gives all Shards the same capacities (the same inputs into magic systems) or it doesn’t. IMO, this question underlies every cosmere theory, and I’m curious how you answer. "Pathways to Power" and Focuses It is not MY “pathway system,” it is Brandon’s. Again, both the idea and term “pathway to power” come from BoM. Pathways IMO cause a Shard’s “unchanging/unchangeable nature” (in Jofwu’s terms). For comity and clarity, I’m willing to replace a text term with “pathway to Spiritual energy,” though I believe Shard “power” is textually correct . You misread me if you think the theory attributes Focuses to Shards. I agree Focuses tie to planets. Pathways tie to Shards. A Shard’s local magic uses the local planet’s Focus. On a different planet, a Shard’s pathway IMO would use that planet’s Focus to shape the pathway: FWIW, my “river/valve” analogy refers to “shaping the Investiture,” not restricting power flow. I do think Focuses also restrict power flow, to prevent the magic user’s vaporization. But I don’t believe pathways or Focuses change individual magic users’ power consumption rates. Magic Systems Except for Scadrial, I would fine-tune your third answer to say Adonalsium determines the Focus. It means the same, but IMO we tend to undervalue Adonalsium’s ongoing presence. Other than Scadrial, his essence permeates the cosmere, with many ramifications. These include both Focuses and (IMO) non-metal Catalysts. I discuss this at length in the OP’s Spoiler section. Now that I understand your definition of “power,” I can accept this statement (except the Surge = Focus part). I do think more factors than just Focus explain magical effect differences. I list these factors in my earlier posts. Sand Mastery We still disagree about this. I’d let it go if it were only about Taldain’s Focus, but your Sand Mastery description raises broader questions. Water is what causes the lighten to release its stored investiture. When water is poured directly into the sand, the investiture is still released and the sand turns black, but without a mind to guide that investiture, there is no effect. Yes. The lichen absorbs the investiture, and through providing water to the lichen, just as when it is released when water is poured in the sand, the investiture is let loose to be used by the sand master. Just as with breath this investiture can then be shaped, and there is a command element, but that is not the focus as it is on Nalthis. The investiture is manipulated until the sand is released or the steam of investiture is interrupted, and until that point, as long as the master keeps providing water from his body, the investiture remains under his control, just as breath is not consumed. I think magic systems must be thermodynamically sound. We agree Sand Master body water causes the lichen to respond to the Sand Master. But I don’t see you address Spiritual energy’s role; or how the bond forms, water gets to the lichen, and the Sand Master directs the lichen’s Investiture. I’d like to hear your thoughts on this and on Sand Mastery’s energy-matter-Investiture flows. I’m still unsure how water acts as a Focus to shape the lichen’s Investiture. We agree water activates the Investiture and the bond communicates the command. IMO, Adonalsium and the Shards direct Investiture by visualizing an intended result. Maybe visualized commands are a default form of Focus? Nalthis and Taldain are the only single-Shard-in-residence planets we’ve seen. Writing this makes me see Brandon’s metaphor (maybe?) Autonomy Invests water worlds that bake beneath hot suns. Bavadin the dragon (IMO) breathes fire onto those worlds in the form of solar radiation. Mortals must tame the dragon’s breath to gain the dragon’s powers – with water they sacrifice from their own bodies! A combination of Excalibur and The Half-Blood Prince! The exact same as I describe sand mastery as a single unified power. Without knowing more about darkside, I don't have further answers. But just as on First of the Sun, another Autonomy related system, the investiture is not imbued on the people of this world, but on some external factor that they can interact with. I am making an assumption here that darkside functions similarly to dayside and the power is stored and accessed through something external. I still don’t understand this. I read “a single unified power” to mean a single ability like Sand Mastery’s and Awakening’s power to animate. Maybe single power magic systems only need commands as a Focus? I agree Darkside likely manifests “ecological” magic. (IMO, “ecological” magic doesn’t use or need Focuses because the system’s Investiture is already Focused to do what it does.) Cosmere Fundamentals I'm not sure. He appears to be using quantum physics terminology. My understanding is that there is a fundamental difference between the investiture associated with each individual Shard. Brandon says Connections are “quantum connections” and not Investiture. I think that means the “mind-soul” Connection that enables Shards to direct Spiritual energy is a quantum entanglement. IOW, pathways themselves are a form of quantum entanglement, since I believe pathways are the Physical Realm aspect of the Shard’s Connection to its Spiritual energy: “The Connection is all there in the Spiritual Realm.” To me, this confirms all Spiritual energy is the same, just Connected differently – a matter of quantum physics, not Investiture. I believe Spiritual energy changes only when a Shard or magic user Focuses Spiritual energy into matter, mundane energy, or some other form of Investiture. How do you read the “quantum connections” WoB? As far as what we know? Investiture can be neither created nor destroyed. Investiture requires a guiding mind. There is a fourth law of thermodynamics related to Adonalsium that Brandon has not told us... How they apply is the constant question here, and can we develop a unified system? I don't believe so yet. I agree: Thermodynamics above all. I’m not sure Investiture “requires” a guiding mind, particularly smaller bits of it, but I take your point. I await Brandon’s “fourth law of thermodynamics.” I’ve taken heat (pun intended) for claiming cosmere thermodynamics violate regular thermodynamics’ second law (entropy). The cosmere is now a “perpetual motion machine.” For years, I’ve proposed a solution: nothing converts back into Spiritual energy. Substances instead convert only into mundane matter and energy and other forms of Investiture. This complies with thermodynamics’ first law since the sum of these substances plus Spiritual energy remains constant. I believe the “fourth law” will return the cosmere to normal thermodynamics. This makes both scientific and narrative sense. Narratively, all Spiritual energy begins as Adonalsium’s soul. The Shattering doesn’t change that. Unless Investiture convertibility remakes souls, Spiritual energy is a declining resource, Adonalsium’s Spiritual Realm corpse. I believe we can develop a uniform magic system model, and most of us already have some version of one. I state mine in the OP, and I’ve seen the “well-established theory” you endorse. I think there’s consensus, just a little mushiness around the edges and (my usual lament) a failure to clearly define terms. Otherwise, I think we’re already there. Prior to the Shattering, all investiture was Adonalsium. When the Shattering occurred all of the investiture, everywhere in the Cosmere, was divided between the Shards. Due to the limited nature of the minds of the Vessels, they are not able to access all of this investiture, regardless of it being theirs, because they cannot handle something so close to infinite. I believe this is the entire reason for Autonomy to create the Aspects/Avatars that she is. By creating new minds that are still a part of a whole shard, she can access more of the total investiture alloted to her, even if each portion is relatively weaker than a standard Vessel and shard. I believe that Patji is one of these aspects. Although Bavadin has never been to FotS herself, she reached out through the Spiritual to a place strongly connected to her power and spawned a mind to wield her power independent of her. First, that’s a GREAT observation why Autonomy creates avatars. I’m not sure that’s Autonomy’s “entire” reason; but it’s a sufficient one. You say Autonomy “reached out through the Spiritual to a place strongly connected to her power”: FotS. True, but WHY is FotS “strongly connected to her power”? My pathways theory explains this. What is your explanation? I’d hoped you’d have more to say on these WoBs. They seem important. What do you think “broke off” at the Shattering? How was Investiture “assigned” to the Shards? Fortune Three strikes, I’m out?! I think Fortune makes sense as a Shard, but who knows? It fits the profile nicely and would explain some WoBs and the possibility of FTL travel. I like black holes as the perpendicularities of a Shard “not resident on a planet.” But I’m more confident (1) a space-time continuum permeates the Physical Realm; (2) Feruchemists tap Preservation/Ruin not Fortune; and (3) all Shards have some level of foresight. I believe (1) because the cosmere is our universe and its physics, plus Investiture. Brandon has no reason to exclude space-time from the cosmere. Whether he associates space-time with Fortune is a different question. Fortune’s space-time pathway would explain how Hoid knows where and when to be but not why. I believe (2) and (3) because Brandon says, “The 'role' of the Shard has to do with the WAY the magic is obtained, not what it can do [emphasis added].” IOW, any Shard can do anything, but only in its own way. As Calderis says, other Shards can see the future too, with varying success. Cultivation foresees better than Honor, for example. I thus believe Spiritual energy includes the foresight ability, just as it includes every magical ability. Again, IMO Spiritual energy is all the same, and the Shard’s pathway determines how strong its foresight ability is. I speculate a Shard Fortune would use a space-time pathway that makes her particularly good at foresight. Feruchemists rely on Preservation and Ruin for the Feruchemical attribute “Fortune.” Brandon says that attribute is not exactly the same as Fortune elsewhere. Maybe that’s because “Fortune” elsewhere comes from other Shards; or maybe Fortune is a separate Shard; or maybe Scadrial’s uniqueness as a Shard-made planet distinguishes Feruchemy; or maybe Feruchemical Fortune is just different for its own reasons. Unclear. Conclusion As Gandalf says of Merry, “A fool…but an honest fool…” Thanks? But I know how you feel…Same here (both as to understanding and respect). I think our disagreements mostly stem from definitional differences. I hope this post clears away the confusion, and we understand each other better now. Some disagreements remain, like how Sand Mastery works thermodynamically. But if you agree “Spiritual energy” provides the same capacities to every Shard, regardless of how a Shard manifests that energy, then we can solve anything. The uniformity of Spiritual energy is my theory’s core. Everything else is branches and twigs. No problem. I know a young’un near at hand can distract anyone. For “mental capacity” perspective, I’m at my Mom’s this week. She’s in her mid-90’s and had me in her 20's. There’s a reason I call myself “Confused.” Just don’t define “deserves” like the Nightwatcher does....

@Calderis, I saw your Discord exchange with Yata about my previous post. You MISUNDERSTAND ME (and my theory). 1. I now see we define “powers” differently, and that confusion causes you to see impasse where it isn’t. You define “powers” as the specific abilities each magic system grants (like steel pushing or lashing). I define “powers” as Spiritual Realm Investiture not part of a soul (what Syl, Wax, and Marasi call the “powers of creation”). IOW, when I say the powers are the same for every Shard, I mean the raw material available to them, magic system “inputs.” You focus on system “outputs,” a system’s magical effects. I think our disagreement disappears with that clarification. 2. My request for questions here rather than on Discord wasn’t because I wanted one discussion place. It was because the Discord discussion was rude and scornful. If people want to behave that way, at least give me the courtesy of doing it where I can respond. 3. I am not looking for argument, I am looking for cosmere truth. I do change my mind when presented with new facts or better analysis. All I ask for is patience and persistence, which should be the hallmark of every 17th Shard theorist. So, before responding to your post, here is another quick “pathways to power” tutorial. I hope you actually read this one: To me, a pathway is the Physical Realm aspect of the Connection between a magic user and its Shard’s Spiritual Realm power. I think a pathway is a river and the Focus is the valve controlling the river’s flow. My second post’s description of the Nahel bond explains: I do appreciate your post. As I go through it, I ask you the kinds of questions I ask myself when I think through a theory. I expect you already have answers and hope you don’t mind sharing them. 1. What causes a “magic system [to] develop”? 2. Who/what brings the magic to that world, and how/when/why is it placed there? 3. What “decides” the focus? 4. What do you mean, “it can do multiple things in multiple magic systems”? 5. What causes the “multiple things” phenomenon and how does it relate to the cosmere as a whole? 6. Why is this relevant to any other system or the cosmere generally? (I just want to understand this statement better.) 7. Again I ask, why is water Sand Mastery’s Focus? You define Focus as something that “shapes the Investiture.” How does the Sand Master use the same water to make a dune versus a spear? Isn’t it more logical the Sand Master’s commands direct the microflora like in Awakening, IMO a similar system? 8. I’m unsure: do you mean the sand-controlling Investiture is the lichen’s? Khriss says water creates “a brief Cognitive bond” between the Sand Master and the lichen; but Spiritual Realm Investiture “controls the sand” (through the bonded microflora). Is this how you see it? Does this affect your Focus analysis? 9. Why do you think it matters that every Sand Master “has the exact same ability”? Why and how does that affect the Focus or any other aspect of the magic system? I believe Awakening and Sand Mastery share this “exact same ability” – the power to animate objects. Raw Spiritual Realm Investiture inputs the same power to animate into each system (by my “powers” definition), but the difference in Shards and planets produces a different output, a different expression of the power to animate (a different “power” by your definition). Both systems manifest on a single-Shard planet, and we might glean something from the comparison. 10. Why must Darkside be a “separate system”? Unlike Scadrial, there’s only one Shard present. (And the Scadrial southland had no magic before Kelsier.) How “separate” is “separate”? 11. What do you mean that the “separate system” will “all be a single unified power”? One magical ability? Where does this one power/ability come from? Why and how will it be different from Dayside’s magic? And some more questions I think all cosmere magic theories need to answer: 12. What IS the difference among Shards? What does Brandon mean by Shard “spins and magnetisms”? 13. What are the cosmere’s “unified laws”? How do they apply to magic systems and can we develop a uniform magic system model based on them? 14. How do you interpret the recent WoBs about Investiture “assignment,” pieces of Adonalsium “breaking off” at the Shattering, and the “Patji” WoB? (I link or quote these in the OP and second post, and I analyze them there.) How do they fit within a cosmere of “unified laws”? 15. What questions do you have for me, on pathways or any other subject? I saw on Discord your doubts about the OP’s Fortune theory and Fortune’s “space-time” pathway. Ask me about it – the theory may make sense to you. @RShara, “color” in magic systems is tangential at best to the pathways theory, whether as flavor or mechanic. I didn’t immediately respond to your first post for that reason. You could be completely right, and IMO it wouldn’t change a thing. If you have some good reason why color undermines the pathways theory, I’d like to hear it. But otherwise, let’s move on. I’d MUCH rather you address the theory itself (maybe after you read more than 20% of it?) And for the record, I still disagree with your interpretation . Thank you for your question, @John203. The quote refers to how Cultivation gives magic to mortals, not spren like the Nightwatcher. When exposed to Stormlight, spren manifest in the Physical Realm the idea they personify – fire, wind, etc. IMO, this is the basis for Surgebinding and fabrials. I think spren are Cultivation’s Rosharan pathway to power. The Nightwatcher precedes Cultivation. The Eila Stele identifies three Parsh “gods” – spren, stone, and wind. I believe “spren” is the Nightwatcher’s antecedent and represents “transformation” on Roshar. At the Shattering, I think the Nightwatcher’s Investiture was “assigned” to Cultivation, and the Nightwatcher became Cultivation’s spren after Cultivation settled on Roshar. As a “godspren” like the Stormfather, the Nightwatcher independently makes magic. The Nightwatcher transforms mortals by giving a boon and curse. While I list evolution as Cultivation’s scientific mechanic (and still believe she only transforms living things), I first considered thermodynamics’ first law as her science – the inter convertibility of mass-energy-Investiture. Cultivation giveth and Cultivation taketh away. The Nightwatcher boon/curse represents this. Btw, did anyone get this fantasy reference? Regards, all!

@RShara, @Calderis, and @Spoolofwhool, I periodically visit Discord and saw last week’s comments about my theory. I prefer you ask all your questions here. @Yata, I will get back to you soon on the Sja-Anat/Glys thread. This post may hold some answers for you. I base the pathways to power theory on text analysis supported by WoBs. If you value collaboration as you say, please collaborate with me on this theory. Thank you in advance for your persistence and patience. Response to RShara’s Post: RShara, you know your “gemstone” WoBs made me change my theory. I do listen to you. This WoB doesn’t move me. IMO, Brandon does NOT say, as you do, “color being an important mechanic in the cosmere.” He says instead, “I haven't built that into [Soulcasting] yet.” Brandon recognizes color is “where we stray more into the magical [away from the scientific] sense.” IOW, even when it becomes “relevant to each of the cosmere magics,” color will be influential “flavor,” not a scientific “mechanic.” If that proves to be wrong, I'll acknowledge my error, amend the theory, and move on. Our prior conversation was about Awakening. Of that magic system, Brandon says, “the magic could work without , narratively.” That’s because (IMO) Awakening drains Investiture, regardless of color. Nightblood and Azure’s blade prove it, as does the last of your “gemstone WoBs.” As I keep saying, “color” doesn’t exist – it’s how the human eye perceives reflected light frequencies. Again, in Awakening color is “flavor,” not a “mechanic.” Pathways Theory Explains Cosmere Phenomena I think the “pathways to power” theory explains older and recent WoBs and known cosmere phenomena. At bottom, it’s just an extension of @skaa's “L-Theory of Realmatic Strings” with more textual grounding. Here again is the BoM quote (Chapter 28, Kindle p. 359, emphasis added) that underlies the theory: I think this passage says metal is Preservation’s pathway to Spiritual Realm power. To me, it makes sense each Shard would have its own magical energy transmission mechanic – Brandon’s “spins and magnetisms.” Brandon says cosmere Connections are “quantum connections,” not Investiture. Quantum entanglement explains why Connected souls stay in Spiritual contact regardless of Physical Realm distance. I believe a pathway to power is the Physical Realm aspect of each Shard-to-magic user Spiritual Realm Connection, its quantum entanglement. Surgebinding’s Pathways to Power This is the version that I believe. Oaths for Honor, a guiding set of ideals to bind the behavior, and progression and advancement through the those ideals representing the growth of Cultivation. Calderis, this is a fair way to look at Surgebinding, but I see the Shards’ relationship differently. Surgebinding IMO has two magical elements: the Radiant spren and the Nahel bond. I believe Cultivation supplies the spren; the spren supply the power; and Honor’s Nahel bond gives Surgebinders control of the power. I believe spren are Cultivation’s pathway to power. Spren are “transformative cognitive entities.” (OB, Ars Arcanum, Kindle p. 1238.) Add Stormlight (Surgebinding’s catalyst IMO), and spren manifest the idea they personify. Fabrials are solely Cultivation’s magic system – the same pathway to power as Surgebinding (spren), except gem-enslavement replaces the Nahel bond. The Nahel bond Connects a Surgebinder’s mind with the Radiant spren. That gives the Surgebinder the ability to control the spren’s power. It’s why I think KR brain synapses – IMO, the Physical Realm aspect of the Nahel bond – is Honor’s pathway to power. It fits Syl’s self-description (OB, Chapter 31, p. 316): IOW, Syl personifies a human ideal – IMO, “protection,” a Windrunner’s primary Divine Attribute. Syl is the Spiritual Realm aspect of the protection ideal in Kaladin’s mind. Kaladin’s thoughts and behaviors strengthen his synaptic connection to protection. That strengthens the Nahel bond, his Spiritual Realm Connection to Syl (protection in Spiritual form). The strengthened bond gives Kaladin more power. Oaths are Honor’s vehicle to strengthen synaptic connections and widen Honor’s pathway to power. Autonomy’s Pathway to Power I think Khriss confirms water is Autonomy’s pathway (AU, “The Taldain System,” Kindle pp. 369-370). I interpret this mean the “brief Cognitive bond” lets the Sand Master draw Investiture from the Spiritual Realm to control the microflora’s growth and, consequently, the sand. IOW, water is the pathway down which the Sand Master pulls power from the Spiritual Realm and pushes it into the microflora. Calderis, you claim water is Sand Mastery’s Focus. But water doesn’t meet your Focus definition of “shaping the Investiture.” Unlike substances like metals or the Selish forms, water is always H2O (barring isotopes). I think Sand Mastery resembles Awakening, since it animates objects. Sand Mastery’s Focus IMO is the Sand Master’s visualized command that changes the sand’s configuration. Water is the medium that relays the Sand Master’s commands, the “pathway to power.” Shards, Investiture, and First of the Sun I think my pathways theory explains Brandon’s dissertation on Shards, Investiture, and FotS: Key Points: Brandon says Autonomy didn’t invest FotS: “The investiture on that planet is residue, normal investiture from Adonalsium.” Though no Shard was ever “in residence” there, Patji is a Shard of Adonalsium. Autonomy “found a gathering of investiture that has always been there,” which she recognized when she explored it. “Shards influence and tweak certain investiture, giving it a kind of spin or magnetism…associated with certain aspects of Adonalsium.” Analysis: My theory says a Shard’s “spin or magnetism” is the Spiritual Realm aspect of its pathway to power (expressed as quantum physics) – a unique medium for transmitting magical energy. In Autonomy’s case, water seems to transmit power. On a water world, she discovers a “gathering of Investiture.” Autonomy recognizes that Investiture as something she can control through her water pathway, her “aspect of Adonalsium.” IMO, Patji is a “Shard of Adonalsium” in the same sense a Shard’s splinter still is part of the Shard. Patji’s Investiture seems much greater than most splinters’. “Patji” is the name FotS natives give the avatar – one of the “cultural” interactions Brandon says is so important to cosmere magic. (I can cite text and WoBs on this if you’d like.) FotS’ Avatar and Roshar: I believe Bavadin “expresses” the Autonomy Shard (in @Jofwu's terms) by granting self-sufficiency. IMO, her avatars are self-sufficient Physical Realm representations of her power. I believe Autonomy gives consciousness to FotS’ “gathering of Investiture.” IMO, “Patji the being” is this conscious Investiture. Patji the being then raises Patji the island from FotS’ oceans. The Patji perpendicularity shows Patji Connects to Autonomy’s Spiritual Realm power. Trapper-Aviar bonds show Patji too rewards self-sufficiency. Bavadin gives consciousness to her assigned Investiture wherever she finds it. I think Adonalsium left a similar consciousness on Roshar. This consciousness raises Roshar’s supercontinent from Roshar’s ocean according to “fractal mathematics” principles. I believe these events are magically related: Though Autonomy’s not “invested” on Roshar, “parts of what were Adonalsium still exist that are associated with you (in the very fabric of matter and existence.)” Those “parts” IMO are the matter, energy, and Investiture Adonalsium creates on Roshar using a water pathway to power, Autonomy’s Spiritual “spin and magnetism.” FWIW, Brandon again distinguishes between “interactions with nature” systems and “people with magic” systems. That’s now the dividing line between Major and Minor Shardworlds. Also, apologies, @Oversleep, if I anticipate any part of your avatar theory. I look forward to reading your theory. You did impersonate me in the above WoB: Magical Inputs (Shard Power) vs. Magical Outputs (Magical Effect) With that background, Calderis, I’ll respond here to your question from the Sja-Anat/Glys thread: IMO, you and SpoolofWhool spotlight a magic system’s outputs, its magical effects. I’ve told you I agree those are different across magic systems (more or less). I believe Brandon’s statements mean something else. Again, the two critical WoBs: “The means of getting powers…are related to the Shards, but not the powers themselves”; and “The 'role' of the Shard has to do with the WAY the magic is obtained, not what it can do.” I believe Shard inputs – the Spiritual Realm powers available to Shards – are the same, not their outputs (the magical effects Shards and their magic users produce). Many factors cause magical effect, including the Shard’s pathway, the planet’s culture, Vessel personality, and the planet’s forms of Adonalsium’s essence (including its inherent Investiture). WoBs and text confirm how these factors affect magic systems. IMO, the quoted WoBs instead mean any Shard can use any Spiritual Realm power to “do” anything – but only in their own way. Ruin could theoretically use the same Spiritual Realm powers as Preservation to create an Allomancy-like magic system (implies the first WoB). But his increased net entropy pathway (“decay”) directly opposes metal’s crystalline molecular pathway (“stasis”) and makes this difficult or impossible. It’s “more natural” for Ruin instead to steal Allomantic powers by increasing net entropy (spiking). These WoBs do not “only refer to the individual magic systems themselves” (the Metallic Arts): I think Brandon’s statement the powers are not “related to the Shards” is too fundamental to restrict to Scadrial. The cosmere follows “unified laws.” He says this principle applies “in all of the worlds.” If Brandon says two directly opposing Shards use the same powers, then it must also be true of the other, less directly opposite, Shards. Rosharan Magic The Discord group also questions my Rosharan magic analysis. IMO, Honor’s pathway to power are Connections. Honor grants power by making Connections. On Roshar, a world of living ideas, that means Cognitive Connections, the Nahel bond. I explain above how that works. Cultivation grants Fabrials and Surgebinding’s magical effects through spren, her Rosharan pathway to power. Stormlight (a catalyst) transforms a spren’s “idea” into its Physical Realm manifestation – gravity, fire, rain, etc. Odium’s pathway IMO is the Void, maybe dark energy? He grants his power through broken Connections. On Roshar, that means broken Cognitive Connections. I believe the Fused Voidbind. They don’t rely on Cultivation’s spren pathway because Voidbinding doesn’t access power through spren. I believe Odium gives power to the Fused when they break their Cognitive Connections to others. TONS of textual evidence show this. It’s why the Fused are imbecilic – every time they return they suffer more brain damage as they regain their powers. It’s also why the Fused don’t heal – Odium’s Connection-breaking magic can’t stitch living tissue together – and why there is no Bondsmith equivalent for Odium (IMO). To summarize: On Roshar, Honor gives magic by making Cognitive Connections (the Nahel bond). Cultivation gives magic by transforming spren (Cognitive entities). Odium gives magic by breaking Cognitive Connections. I can point you to scores of passages (hundreds?) that prove all this. On Roshar, each Shard uses a Cognitive pathway. On other Shardworlds, with different Focuses, Rosharan Shards IMO would express themselves differently – making, transforming, or breaking some other Connection as their pathway to power. Another personal note: I am content to debate this stuff piecemeal, thread by thread. I prefer, however, to try and resolve the big cosmere issues – how magic works, etc. – in one place. We can do that now, on this thread, or we can pick a date and time and get together on Discord. I feel, with patience and persistence, we can find common ground. We’re in a dead mountain of time anyway. What say you?

This month’s Shardcast concludes Sja-Anat “corrupts” a Truthwatcher spren, Glys. The Shardcasters believe Renarin both Voidbinds (foresees) and Surgebinds (heals). Many posters agree. I see another possibility: Maybe Cultivation transforms a Sja-Anat splinter, Glys, into a Nahel-bondable Radiant spren? Sja-Anat says to Shallan during their Oathgate encounter (OB, Chapter 84, Kindle p. 817), In the next chapter, Sja-Anat sadly tells Shallan (OB, Chapter 85, Kindle p. 822), IMO, Sja-Anat juxtaposes her corruption of the Oathgate spren – which she was “compelled to touch” – with her “son” and other “children.” This suggests Sja-Anat’s children are not corrupted spren like “the spren of this device” (a cold description, I think). She doesn’t claim the Oathgate spren as her children or ask Shallan to check with them. Other Kholinar spren Sja-Anat corrupts appear to be pre-Shattering Adonalsium spren – exhaustionspren, painspren, and shamespren. Spren “create” children. Their children share their Investiture. Syl is the Stormfather’s daughter. After the Recreance, the Stormfather “created only ten more” honorspren. (OB, Chapter 108, Kindle p. 1015.) Notum’s great-grandmother was one, who in turn “created” his grandfather, who then “created” his father, who “created” Notum. Ico’s father was a Radiant spren. Though it’s possible, I don’t believe spren “adopt” other spren’s children by injecting alien Investiture into them. The injected Investiture instead “corrupts” them (IMO). Here’s my theory: I think Cultivation transforms Sja-Anat, freeing her from Odium’s influence – “I am of me. Now, only of me.” Sja-Anat remains Odium’s Investiture, but her mind now is her own. IOW, I believe Cultivation gives Sja-Anat free will. Sja-Anat then creates her “son,” the voidspren Glys. I believe Cultivation transforms Glys to make him Nahel-bondable. Glys gives Renarin his powers through the Nahel bond. IMO, that makes Renarin a Surgebinder. A Nahel-bonded voidspren can process Stormlight to Focus any power Cultivation wants it to, including foresight and healing. My “Pathways to Power” post concludes all Shards use the same powers. Brandon says Shards differ only in ”the means of getting powers,” the “WAY the magic is obtained.” Surgebinders IMO gain magic through the Cognitive Connection of the Nahel bond, which Renarin and Glys share. I believe Cultivation wanted Renarin to have foresight. Renarin’s name implies his uniqueness: “Like one who was born unto himself.” (OB, Chapter 52, Kindle p. 515.) Cultivation needs a voidspren to provide foresight because humans personify foresight as “of Odium.” In presenting my interpretation of Glys and Renarin, I don’t mean to impugn other interpretations. All are valid, but none rise to the level of “cosmere fact.” @Calderis, if you look again at my last post in our prior conversation, you’ll see I do account for your “context” when I disagree with you about Renarin’s Voidbinding. As I said there, you may be right, but there is ample room for other views. I do think Sja-Anat is capable of corrupting Radiant spren, and she may have corrupted them in the past. It’s possible, though, Cultivation caused the earlier “corruption.” I believe Glys may be part of a far-reaching plan Cultivation’s long-considered.

I reorganized and edited the OP for clarity and focus. After I posted the OP, @Jofwu “Shard Framework” theory came out. Jofwu distinguishes between a Shard’s “nature” and the Vessel’s “expression” of its nature. The Shard’s nature is the “unchanging/unchangeable” aspect of a Shard. The Vessel’s expression of that nature is the changeable aspect. I follow this dichotomy in the edited OP. I theorize pathways to power must cause the Shard’s nature because all Shards use the same powers. The only difference among Shards IMO is how they give power to magic users. Check out the revised theory and let me know what you think. You may disagree with some of my pathway choices, but I think the theory is sound and supported by WoB and text. Thanks!

This is NOT confirmed. This is your interpretation. You say the WoB plus Brandon pointing to the Voidbinding chart means Renarin is a Voidbinder. I think he points because Glys is a voidspren. We agree bonding a voidspren like Regals doesn’t make you a Voidbinder. In an earlier post, I responded to your interpretation: People can interpret for themselves. Yours is a fair opinion, but not the only one. This led to the debate over the difference between Surgebinding and Voidbinding. That in turn led to the debate over the meaning of “Surge.” Just to summarize my position and not to further argue it: 1. Surgebinders gain their powers from making a Cognitive Connection – the Nahel bond. Voidbinders gain their powers from breaking Cognitive Connections. IMO, the powers each gains are more or less the same, by whatever name. 2. Because I read Brandon to say Renarin doesn’t Voidbind, and Renarin and Glys share the Nahel bond, I conclude he’s a Surgebinder. AFAIK, Renarin doesn’t have a gemheart. Brandon says he “us[es] Stormlight to power abilities different from the Surgebindings we've seen.” That doesn’t make Renarin a Voidbinder; it just means his Surgebinding abilities are different. 3. FWIW, I believe Cultivation transformed Glys to make him “Nahel-bondable.” She foresaw the Final Desolation. She needed a Nahel-bondable voidspren to grant “future sight” to a KR. I don’t think Glys is a Truthwatcher spren corrupted by Sja-anat. But that’s just my opinion.

I look forward to reading it. Rather than conclude from a summary, you may want to look at the full post. (WARNING: I’m wordy…VERY wordy…) Brandon defines a Shard’s “role” by “the WAY the magic is obtained, not what it can do.” He also says, “the powers…are not themselves of [any] Shard. They are simply tools.” IOW, a magic user can theoretically use any power to do anything regardless of magic system. Shard “pathways to power” are conduits for summoning power – the road, not the “roadblock.” The idea and the term “pathway to power” come from this passage (BoM, Chapter 28, Kindle p. 359, emphasis added): You may still disagree with the theory after reading it – many do – but at least you’ll understand it better. Here’s how my magic system model describes both Allomancy and Surgebinding (in response to @Calderis on another thread):

My bad... I assume if a Shard is a god, and an avatar is a god's incarnation in the Physical Realm, then a Shardic avatar is a Physical Realm "demi-god," a sentient Physical Realm being that wields the Shard's power on its behalf. Just a guess.

My goodness! I’m surprised my comments about Surges generate such controversy! I thought we were discussing whether “Surges” are restricted to certain types of powers, not the word’s timeline and origin. I may have worded something poorly causing misunderstanding and will also address your other points. 1. Misunderstanding. You say, “The spren were formed from the human perception of surges.” I say, humans “personified Radiant spren to represent the Ten Surges.” I mean the same thing you do – the Surges precede Radiant spren. I just ascribe Radiant spren Surges to the Honorblades, based on Khriss. 2. Meaning of Surge and Surgebinding. You rely on the Eila Stele for your conclusion; I rely on Khriss. Both sources IMO are imperfect and questionable. Khriss may be the cosmere’s “most knowledgeable” magical arcanist, but Brandon hints she, like all experts, is fallible. Let’s look at the Eila Stele. “Surges” is the modern human translation of some Dawnchant word with comparable meaning – maybe “fundamental power” or just “power.” Today on Roshar, humans use “Surge” to translate that word. Look at this page to show how English translations of Homer change through the years. I think we can’t assume “Surge” is a literal translation of a more than five-thousand-year-old concept. It might be, but it might not. I also question whether “the concept of surges” precedes “surgebinding.” My question relates to “surgebinding’s” definition. You note, I think it’s equally fair to say each system binds one of the Surges. IOW, “binding” Surges does not refer to Honor or the Nahel bond and its magic. To bind is to restrain, to impose. To bond is to unite from a shared interest, like the Nahel bond. I think Roshar’s major magic systems all bind the Surges to their magic user’s will – they all “surge-bind.” IMO, these systems differ only in the way they get their magic – through making Cognitive Connections (Surgebinding), breaking Cognitive Connections (Voidbinding), or transformation (fabrials). IOW, even before “Surgebinding,” Rosharans knew of “surge-binding.” They saw it in greatshells and skyeels. And finally, I again point out that Singer culture personifies some phenomena differently from humans. An easy example is the Rider of Storms vs. the Stormfather. Ideas are cultural; and spren are the personification of cultural ideas, even ideas adopted from another culture (if that’s what “Surges” are). I think you agree when you describe “the human perception of surges.” Culture entwines perception, like the many words the Inuit have for snow. 3. My Eila Stele Misgivings. You ask, First, “stock in the Stele”!!! I love that! (Maybe if I were an Allomancer…) Second, I have no theory about this stuff. I’m just interpreting text. I respect other interpretations. I don’t think what a “Surge” is much affects my magic system theory. “Surge” IMO is an example of Khriss’ “rule of perception” from her AU Sel essay (Kindle, p. 17). Last: The Stele’s translation and origin trouble me, not its chronology. It was translated in Kharbranth and at Jah Keved monasteries. Those are Taravangian’s kingdoms. His people might have reason to translate nuance in his favor. “Ardent Urv,” in OB Interlude I-2, appears to report to Taravangian. (Is he a Diagram member?) I don’t trust the translation. Will Jasnah’s translation have the same emphasis? A Singer does seem to write it. But IMO, the Stele speaks of Voidbringers as Odium magic users. Then it was humans; now it’s Singers. I’m still struck how Ahu’s quote in my previous post resembles the Eila Stele. Has anyone suggested Jezrien is a Singer who went to Honor to fight Odium? If you don’t mind, I’m done on the “cultural origin of Surges” topic. I’d rather exchange ideas with you on other stuff you find comment-worthy. Thanks, @Spool!

You're right about the Spiritual Realm. But "pathways" are the conduits to OTHER Realms. IMO, each Shard has its own conduit (its own means of magical energy transmission) to manifest its Spiritual Realm power in other Realms. Brandon defines "innate Investiture" as the Investiture that turns a mortal into a “conduit to/from the Spiritual Realm.” I think pathways are the "conduits" between Realms.

Not exactly. From what I understand, what the people of Roshar call "surges" are just their way of referring to what they believe are fundamental forces in the Cosmere. They don't see them as belonging to a shard, and them defining the surges seems to predate the appearance of surgebinding, according to the Stele. All variations of powers on Roshar seem to follow the pattern of manipulating one of the surges, regardless of cultural definition. Here’s what Khriss says in the OB Ars Arcanum (Kindle p. 1238, emphasis added) and the other SLA AAs: I read this to mean the “Ten Surges” represent the Honorblade powers. Roshar’s humans “think” they’re fundamental forces, but they’re not. These Surges do come from a Shard – Honor, the Almighty – whether acknowledged as such. Vorin culture, at least, doesn’t acknowledge other deities. I think humans associated the Honorblade powers with each Herald’s Divine Attributes. They personified Radiant spren to represent the Ten Surges and Divine Attributes. To me, that’s “a cultural interpretation of a Rosharan Shard’s power.” I think Singers personify the same idea differently from humans. Yixli, the yellow-white spren that discovers and then speaks for Kaladin, is IMO a “protection” spren. I believe Syl is also a “protection” spren, her Primary Divine Attribute. Yet Yixli offers no powers and seems grounded in stone: Singers apparently personify stone as protection. This at least suggests the possibility that Singers might personify different powers as “Surges.” Renarin's future sight IMO is an example, as I explain in one of my posts above. I do agree all of Roshar's magic systems bind Surges. I don’t yet put much credence in the Eila Stele. It’s too convenient a plot device and too self-serving for one side. Brandon revels in reversals, and I feel there’s one lurking there. (I’m not suggesting anything by this, but I do note how Ahu/Jezrien’s drunken words to Dalinar mirror the Eila Stele (OB, Chapter 88, Kindle p. 853)): Take your time. I aim to be “interesting” if nothing else… Would the “Pathways” post be a better thread to put your response?

In my recent “Pathways to Power” post, I address how and why Investiture is “assigned” to each Shard. To summarize: 1. Each Shard has its own “pathway to power.” (That’s how Marasi describes metal in BoM.) Each pathway is a unique medium for the transmission of magical energy. Water IMO is Autonomy’s pathway. 2. I suggest these pathways are slices of Adonalsium’s mind-soul Connection that “broke off” at the Shattering. My “Pathways” post says, “Adonalsium used these pathways when he made water, EMR, etc. The Shards inherit the Investiture in all three Realms that relates to their pathway.” 3. I compare Roshar and First of the Sun, two ocean planets: This is why “Autonomy never ‘invested’ on First of the Sun.” That Shardworld’s oceans already give Autonomy the pathway it needs to raise the Pantheon. I believe this explains Brandon’s statement about Roshar: I think Autonomy accesses “a gathering of Investiture” on First of the Sun through its water pathway. I also think Brandon refers to water on Roshar as the “parts of what were Adonalsium [that] still exist that are associated with you (in the very fabric of matter and existence).” 4. FWIW, @Oversleep, an “avatar” is a Sanskrit word for the incarnation of a god in mortal form. Neal Stephenson in his novel Snow Crash was the first to use “avatar” to describe a human’s online digital representation. I think Brandon refers to the Hindu definition, and Patji is Autonomy’s First of the Sun avatar.

Thanks so much, @Calderis and @Spoolofwhool, for your responses! They help move the conversation, and I enjoy discussing this stuff with you. What Defines Magic Systems And that's where I disagree. Hemalurgy is the actual magic involved in the spikes itself. It gives no abilities. It is only the theft. It can steal from any system by stealing the ability to use other systems. When an inquisitor uses Allomancy granted by a spike they are literally using the power granted to someone else by Preservation. Ruin magic only allows the theft. Preservation is still the one pouring investiture through the metal. I agree Hemalurgy as a magic system steals the innate Investiture that grants use of the powers, though I stand by my quoted statement. Again, Brandon defines a Shard’s “role” by “the WAY the magic is obtained, not what it can do.” IMO, increasing net entropy is how Ruin’s magic users gain their powers (through metal spiking). I believe that’s true of every Shard’s magic system – they all give power by a unique means: endowing life, transforming life, making or breaking Connections. But Brandon says twice that Shards all use the same powers: in the just cited WoB and here. If you mean different magic systems do things differently, I agree there too. Magic systems conform to the constraints of cultural perception; their Shardworld’s inherent Investiture; the fact Shardworlds (other than Scadrial) are made from Adonalsium’s essence; and the Shard’s internal constraints (its “role,” personality, Mandate/intent, whatever…) But the one constant is each Shard grants its powers in a unique and defining way – even on worlds like Sel and Roshar that share Shards. You interpret the first WoB to mean, “the individual powers are not shaped or constrained by Preservation's intent” and “Voidbinding will be accessed through some means of Odium, but its powers will not be limited to Odium's intent in application.” Fair enough, but I don’t see the difference between our interpretations. If you strip “intent” from power, isn’t all power the same, as held by Adonalsium? IMO, Spiritual Realm power changes only when a Shard or magic user Focuses it into some form of matter, energy or other Investiture. Focus I think our definitions agree that Focuses filter power: “the thing that shapes the investiture” = the thing “that chooses the power necessary for some magical effect”? If so, I don’t understand why you believe water is Taldain’s Focus. How do you see water “shaping” Autonomy’s Investiture to make the sand microflora do different things? Khriss says water creates the bond, but Spiritual Realm Investiture controls the sand. Maybe you can say water carries the Sand Master’s commands to the microflora; but is the Focus then water or the commands? FWIW, I think Sand Mastery resembles Awakening. Brandon says Awakening’s Focus is its visualized commands. I think Sand Masters also visualize commands to the Invested microflora through their temporary Cognitive bond. Magic Mechanics I agree with your descriptions except for the Roshar Focus. In my “Pathways to Power” post, I lay out a uniform magic-making model. I agree the magical steps occur “fast enough to be indistinguishable.” Here’s how Allomancy and Surgebinding fit my model, for comparison. 1. A magic user consumes a Catalyst. Allomancers burn metals. Surgebinders infuse Stormlight. I think Khriss uses the word “Catalyst” because consuming the Catalyst starts the magic. Yes, I know it’s chemically incorrect. 2. The Catalyst activates each Shard’s unique pathway to the Spiritual Realm. Burning metal “causes a resonance” in what Marasi calls metal’s “pathway to power.” (BoM, Chapter 28, Kindle p. 359.) Metal is Preservation’s pathway IMO because of its static molecular structure. I think each Shard’s “pathway to power” is its unique medium for transmitting magical energy between a magic user and Spiritual Realm power – metal, water, electromagnetic radiation, etc. Consuming infused Stormlight gives Surgebinders access to the Surges. My “Pathways” post says Honor’s pathway is the Surgebinder’s neural synapses. IMO, Honor gives his power by making a Cognitive Connection between a Radiant spren and the Surgebinder – the Nahel bond. Reinforcing Connections (like through oaths) strengthens the synaptic connections between the Surgebinder and his ideals (the Radiant spren), increasing his power. 3. The Spiritual Realm releases power down the pathway. “The power would pour in from Preservation,” or (for Surgebinders) Honor and/or Cultivation. 4. Each magic system’s Focus shapes the pathway to choose which power is released. Vin’s metal filters which power will Invest her. Radiant spren (IMO) filter which power Invests the Surgebinder. Not to re-open the debate, but to express my reason: Spren are power that personify an idea. Through them (as a Focus), the idea they personify manifests in the Physical Realm – fire, gravity, life, wind, etc. Just add a little Stormlight… 5. The Focused power Invests the magic user. 6. The magic user directs the Invested power for some magical effect. Another Wall Bump There are two issues with this statement, in my opinion. The first is more a matter of imprecise wording, but I think that voidbinding uses the same ten surges that surgebinding does, it just manipulates the surges in a different way. Second I don't think that Venli's envoyform, a Regal form, is voidbinding. The reason why I think this is that by the end of WoR, we had not yet seen voidbinding occur directly. Therefore, this means that the lightning abilities that stormform were using was not voidbinding, and I think it's unlikely that there would be a mismatch between Regal forms with some voidbinding and others not, so it seems likely that none are voidbinding. You’re right, @Spool, my statement was “imprecise” (spelled “W-R-O-N-G”). @Calderis said, “I don't believe for a moment though that [Voidbinding} is the exact same powers” as other Rosharan magic systems. I responded that a “Surge” is just a cultural interpretation of a Rosharan Shard’s power (which is true). I used Venli to show how a different culture would personify spren differently, resulting in different powers. I went off the tracks when I called the powers such spren personify “Surges” and gave envoyform as a Voidbinding example. Good catch! I agree too: Non-magic Singers transform through their bond with pre-Shattering spren. Regals transform through their bond with voidspren (which does give them some forms of power like envoyform, but not access to the Surges). I believe these transformations, like fabrials, are Cultivation’s magic. But art imitates nature – Singer transformations precede fabrials, not the other way around. OTOH, the Fused (IMO) do Voidbind. They break their Connections to others to gain the ability to bind Surges. Breaking Cognitive Connections (as I repeatedly say) is how Odium’s magic users gain his magic. I think Odium’s pathway is neuron death, killing Cognitive Connections. That’s why he holds the “most terrible” power and is best at Shard-killing (IMO). I think many Fused are imbecilic because of the brain damage they suffer to regain their powers each time they return. I’ll end on that note…Again, thanks much for your comments!

A Personal Note When I question other posters’ opinions, it’s to TEST both my opinions and theirs. I’m trying to find “cosmere truth.” To me, how the cosmere works is knowable; it has “unified laws.” Those laws underlie and inform Brandon’s grand narrative. I change my theories often to incorporate new or overlooked information and your many good ideas. I theorize like a windup bumper toy moves – I hit a wall and change direction. If I first try to ram through the wall and test its hardness, I hope you don’t take it personally. And I hope you continue to justify your views, even if I continue to debate your reasoning. What Distinguishes Magic Systems? @Calderis, your post concludes magic systems differ not only in how magic users gain their magic, but also how they express Shard power. ( I also once thought this.) I now believe magic systems differ only in “the WAY the magic is obtained.” I think your Metallic Arts example supports this view: IMO, Marsh (or any Inquisitor) does exactly what Kelsier and Sazed do and uses the exact same powers. The only difference is how Marsh gets his powers – by Hemalurgy, not inheritance. Isn’t that an example of “two identical sets of powers just accessed in different means”? “Surges” are a cultural interpretation of Shard power (Khriss). Roshar’s humans limit the Surges to the Honorblade powers, and Radiant spren personify those powers. Singers personify emotions and natural forces as pre-Shattering spren like lifespren, firespren, and gravityspren; and personify “forms of power” as voidspren. I think a skyeel, a Fused, and a Windrunner all “fly” by binding the gravity Surge to change gravity’s direction. I think the only difference among them is how each gains their “Surge-binding” ability: Cultivation gives power through the spren themselves – “transformative cognitive entities” (Khriss) that change their host (the skyeel). Odium gives power to fill the void mortals feel who break their Connections to others (like he tries to do with Dalinar). And Honor gives power by making a Cognitive Connection – the Nahel bond. IOW, all three major Rosharan magic systems “bind Surges” – meaning these systems change the way Surges normally work. I agree Voidbinding uses Surges unavailable to Surgebinders (like Venli’s “envoyform”). But the reason IMO is that Singer culture (as influenced by Odium) personifies “forms of power” beyond the Honorblade powers. IOW, humans culturally limit KR powers, but the Singers do not. I also agree fabrials can bind voidspren and use their powers. I suspect, though, voidspren fabrials will run on Voidlight, not Stormlight. “Focus” Definition? @Calderis, how do you define a Focus? It’s not clear to me. I hesitate to discuss examples when I’m unsure we’re talking the same language. In my “Focus” post, I highlight posters’ diverse definitions: a Focus “shapes” the magic; Focus is an “interface,” the “man in the middle”; and a Focus “determines the outcome of the magic.” Brandon says, “the powers…are not themselves of [any] Shard. They are simply tools.” From this, I conclude a Focus chooses the magical “tool,” the power needed for the desired magical effect. My “power selection” definition distinguishes Focus from the magic user’s decision-making – how to direct the Focused power that Invests the magic user. IOW, Vin chooses brass to Focus Preservation into the soothing power. Once Invested with that power, she decides how best to direct it. Her decision, not the Focus, determines the “outcome of the magic.” Is this how you see things? Because when you say, “water is Taldain’s Focus” and first bonds and now the Surges are Roshar’s Focus, I’m unsure. Would you please clarify your Focus definition? Thanks!

@Calderis, I’ve been curious why you think the Fused don’t Voidbind. Now that I see your reasons, I (unsurprisingly) have a few questions. Argent’s WoB: You conclude, I read the WoB the opposite way: 1. Argent’s question assumes Renarin Voidbinds. Brandon doesn’t confirm this. Instead, he confirms that Renarin “us[es] Stormlight to power abilities different from the Surgebindings we've seen.” I think we can all agree with this. 2. When Argent asks, “Is that what Voidbinding is?” Brandon answers “No.” Putting these statements together, Brandon says Voidbinding is NOT “using Stormlight to power abilities different from the Surgebindings we've seen.” IOW, Renarin doesn’t Voidbind. Voidbinding Chart As you know, I believe Surgebinders and Voidbinders access Shard power differently. Surgebinders get Honor’s power from the Nahel bond, a Cognitive Connection between the KR and its spren. IMO, Voidbinders get Odium’s power by breaking Cognitive Connections, separating themselves from their feelings towards others – Odium’s power fills that void. I think this difference explains the two charts’ “inverted rotational symmetry.” The “normal” glyph half represents the Surge itself. The inverted half represents the different access means. I understand why others may conclude differently on this. Should Voidbinding and Surgebinding Have Different Surges? Why do you think the Surges themselves should be different? Brandon says, “the ‘role’ of a Shard has to do with “the WAY the magic is obtained, not what it can do.” Khriss tells us Rosharan Surges are the powers Honor grants the Heralds through their Honorblades. IOW, Surges are a cultural interpretation of Honor’s power. Radiant spren embody that interpretation. Humans and Singers mostly share that interpretation. I think this is because both cultures personify the same emotions and physical phenomena. The Fused get their Surges from gravityspren, firespren, and adhesionspren – powers that pre-exist the Shattering. But they are the same Surges. Renarin and Glys I agree with most of this, except I think Renarin only Surgebinds. Glys enables Renarin to use “Stormlight to power abilities different from the Surgebindings we've seen.” IOW, Renarin uses new powers other Surgebinders don’t have. That doesn’t mean he’s Voidbinding; he just has access to a different Surge. The way he gets the power – through the Nahel bond – proves he’s Surgebinding. I believe Cultivation transforms the voidspren Glys into a Radiant spren specifically for Renarin. Renarin’s name means, “Like one who was born unto himself.” Glys represents the Truthwatcher ideals as much as other Truthwatcher spren. Otherwise, Renarin’s oaths would not grant him powers through the Nahel bond. Cultivation needs Glys because humans personify future sight as a Voidbringer power. Response to the OP @LopenTheTwoArmedHerdazian, it’s a good thought, but I think the relationship is backwards. Pre-Shattering spren bond with Singers and other sentient fauna. “Investiture leaking into the Physical Realm in a similar kind of process to atium” composes natural gemhearts. These symbiotic relationships pre-exist fabrials. IOW, I think humans based fabrials on the natural relationship. They “tricked” the spren into a gemheart to enslave it, as Taravangian describes. When Stormlight-infused, the spren produces the power it personifies, functioning like a magical heart inside a machine that replicates the spren’s normal host. An Unrelated Question @Calderis, I hoped you might have some response to my latest Shard/magic system theory. I thought you might say, “water is Autonomy’s Focus,” not its pathway to power. I wanted to hear your thoughts on that. I may misunderstand your Focus definition. If this interests you, would you place your Focus post on that thread? Thanks!

I theorize each Shard has its own “pathway to power.” This pathway is the conduit down which a Shard’s Spiritual Realm power enters the other Realms. Each pathway is a unique medium for the transmission of magical energy between the Realms. Metal, spren, water, and electromagnetic radiation (EMR) are examples. The idea and term “pathway to power” comes from Marasi’s POV in this Bands of Mourning passage (Chapter 28, Kindle p. 359, emphasis added): Here’s how I think pathways work in my magic systems model: 1. A magic user consumes a “catalyst” to start the magic (burns metal, infuses Stormlight, dehydrates, drains “color,” etc.) 2. The catalyst activates each Shard’s pathway to Spiritual Realm power. 3. The Spiritual Realm releases power down the pathway. 4. Each magic system’s Focus shapes the pathway to choose which power is released. 5. The Focused power Invests the magic user. 6. The magic user directs the Invested power for some magical effect. Brandon says, “The 'role' of the Shard has to do with the WAY the magic is obtained, not what it can do [emphasis added].” Elsewhere he says, @Jofwu calls the “unchanging/unchangeable” aspect of a Shard its “nature.” Because power isn’t “related to the Shards,” I believe a Shard’s pathway solely causes its nature. Each pathway transmits power differently. Ruin could use the same powers as Preservation; but Ruin’s increased net entropy pathway (“decay”) directly opposes metal’s crystalline molecular pathway (“stasis”). It’s “more natural” for Ruin to steal Allomantic powers by increasing net entropy (spiking). Jofwu calls a Shard’s changeable aspect “the Vessel’s expression of the Shard.” I think the Vessel’s expression embodies Brandon’s axiom that perception guides the use of power. IMO, a Vessel’s expression decides “the WAY the magic is obtained,” “the means of getting powers”: “Ruin stealing, Preservation gifting.” Ruin, for example, could give magic users power in ways other than spiking to express entropy. Brandon may have “flavored” pathways and expressions to correlate with Adonalsium life stages, a Jordan-esque “Wheel of Life.” I’m going to try to weave each Shard into a matrix of expressions, pathways, energy transmission mechanics (each pathways’ “science”), life stages, and narrative. I list the Shards in order of their “life stage.” Lots of speculation here. Enjoy the ride! Fortune [SPECULATION] Expression: Grants Foresight Pathway: Space-Time Continuum Mechanic: Special and General Relativity Life Stage: Conception Narrative: Adonalsium conceives the Physical Realm as a space-time continuum We don’t know whether “Fortune” is a Shard, but it’s a good candidate as hinted by its name. Here’s some speculation: Space-Time in the Cosmere Fortune tells Hoid (the most accomplished seer, says Azure) where and when he needs to be, but not why. It sounds like Hoid taps into the cosmere’s space-time continuum. Brandon believes in probabilistic time: “Possibilities upon possibilities, compounded upon one another. Infinite, overwhelming. The future.” (M:SH, Part Three, Chapter 3, Kindle Locs. 1055-1056.) Since our physics and the cosmere’s are the same except for Investiture, I think space-time constitutes the Physical Realm’s fabric, the substance that permeates the Physical Realm. Except possibly for Cognitive Realm splinters, Adonalsium’s mind and soul are alone until he creates the Physical Realm. IMO, conceiving space-time must precede the Physical Realm because the Physical Realm begins linear time, something unknown in the Spiritual Realm: “Time…had no relevance here. It was not a place. Location had no relevance. Only Connection…” (M:SH, Part Three, Chapter 3, Kindle Locs. 1031-1032.) IOW, space-time doesn’t exist in the Spiritual Realm except as a Connection between a soul and its place and time. How Fortune Works? Surprised by the Diagram’s accuracy, Odium tells Taravangian, “You did this without access to Fortune, or the Spiritual Realm?” (OB, Chapter 122, Kindle p. 1215, emphasis added.) This suggests accessing Fortune is an alternate means of seeing the future, different from looking directly into the Spiritual Realm like Kelsier does in M:SH. Fortune seems to avoid the “mind-breaking” Preservation warns Kelsier about. I think Riino’s globe (the “Rii Oracle”) is an example of an “interaction with nature” magic system. “Invested” mortals like Kaladin can interact with Fortune, but they can’t direct its magic. The Oracle seems filled with Fortune’s Investiture (a “milky light” that changes colors, unlike the Ire’s “blue-white light.” (M:SH, Part 5, Chapter 2, Kindle Loc. 1356.) Touching the Oracle IMO Connects Kaladin to space-time. Through that Connection, Kaladin sees Dalinar’s future confrontation with Odium in Thaylen City. Riino later places his bartered Stormlight in “some kind of globe.” (OB, Chapter 99, Kindle p. 926.) If this “globe” is the Oracle, it’s possible Riino needs to replace Stormlight Kaladin consumes to Connect to Fortune. This makes thermodynamic sense, because you need energy to access the Spiritual Realm, even “at the beginning of the highstorm…when realms blend.” (OB, Chapter 97, Kindle pp. 910, 911.) IOW, Kaladin may have accessed Fortune by consuming a Stormlight catalyst the Oracle holds to fuel his Connection to the Spiritual Realm. The Oracle’s magic to me resembles Aviar as much as atium. Aviar warn their bonded mortals about imminent danger. The Oracle sees farther than Aviar or atium, as we might expect from Fortune. Like Aviar, the Oracle creates a Cognitive Connection with Kaladin – the Investiture seems to know he’d want to see Dalinar’s dilemma. Other Thoughts It’s unclear whether Fortune has its own Shardworld. It may be the “Shard that isn’t on a planet,” appropriate for the Shard whose pathway is space-time. Maybe black holes are Fortune’s perpendicularities? I’m curious if we’ll find mortals who can direct Fortune’s magic along its space-time pathway – starship navigators like Dune’s Guild? Fortune may make FTL space travel possible, through black holes or as a navigation guide. FWIW, Feruchemical “Fortune” and the Shard Fortune (if there is one) may not be 100% the same thing: “when they use the word ‘fortune,’ do they mean exactly what the Feruchemical – and the answer is no. But it is a very similar concept.” Endowment Expression: Grants Life Pathway: Electromagnetic Radiation (EMR) Mechanic: Quantum Mechanics Life Stage: Birth Narrative: Adonalsium creates the cosmere: “Let there be light.” Quantum mechanics describes the behavior of matter and energy at the level of atoms and subatomic particles. Photons are a quantum of light. Breaths are essentially a quantum of Investiture. Quantum mechanics metaphorically fits the “Let there be light” moment, as does Endowment’s EMR pathway. Brandon says Endowment wants to start a cosmere market for magic. She creates Breaths by, IMO, adding life to photons, the “bio” in “biochroma.” Each Breath grants more life (the Heightenings). Even non-Nalthians can hold Breaths. This portability, Breath scarcity (related to the number of native Nalthians), and the fact Breaths as quanta are Investiture’s smallest usable “unit,” make Breaths the ideal currency for Endowment’s magic market. I believe that’s why Endowment chose Nalthis to reside on. I characterize Endowment as an “angel investor.” Her investment (uncoincidentally IMO) gives birth to the magic market. Endowment “endowed” Nalthis with a nest egg that, “Invested” wisely, could generate wealth for millennia. Her name shows how she interprets her pathway. Her social endowment includes the Returned, the prophetic avatars of her divine ideals. Devotion Expression: Sustains Life Pathway: Sub-Surface Ground Mechanic: Geothermal Energy Life Stage: Newborn Narrative: Adonalsium creates planets AonDor seems particularly location-dependent even for Sel. To me, Elantris resembles a newborn who fully depends on its mother. Aon Rao infuses Elantris and Elantrians with the Dor (like mother’s milk). Once the Shaod takes them, Elantrians don’t need any other form of sustenance – Devotion “nurtures” them eternally. The broken chasm line deprives Elantrians of their ability to heal and draw Aons, but they remain immortal. Elantrians lose Aon Rao’s power amplification as they distance themselves from Elantris (and their mother’s Spirit). I associate planet formation with Devotion. After its sun, a planet’s secondary energy source is geothermal energy, left in a planet’s mantle and core when formed. (The warmth of a mother’s love?) Geothermal convection at a planet’s core causes tectonic plate movement on a planet’s surface, like what happened with the chasm. I believe Devotion and Dominion chose Sel because their pathways and mechanics suit a world that (IMO) holds Adonalsium’s inherent Investiture in its ground. Honor Expression: Makes Cognitive Connections Pathway: Neural Synapses Mechanic: Synaptic Plasticity – affects the strength of synaptic connections Life Stage: Infant Narrative: Adonalsium begins to Connect his creations into Spiritwebs Infants start to explore and Connect to the people and things in their world. Neural synapses are how the brain makes Connections. Synapses are the gaps between neurons across which the neurons electrically communicate. IMO, synapses are Honor’s pathway. “Synaptic plasticity” refers to the ability of synapses to strengthen or weaken over time in response to synaptic activity levels. Perceived Connections between people, planet and things, reinforced with use, strengthen synaptic connections. Spren enter the Physical Realm through a Cognitive bond with their host. I believe Roshar’s spren bonds attracted Honor to Roshar. Surgebinders get Honor’s magic from the Nahel bond, a form of Cognitive Connection. IMO, oaths reinforce the Connection by strengthening the synapses in the KR’s brain hooking him to his ideals (the Radiant spren). Broken oaths end the synaptic Connection, leaving a mindless spren that’s missing “a piece of [its] soul.” Dominion Expression: Sets Rules Pathway: Ground Surface Mechanic: Gravitational Potential Energy Life Stage: Toddler Narrative: Adonalsium creates the cosmere’s “unifying laws” Dominion’s form-based “programming” gives access to the Dor. IMO, these forms are 2-dimensional representations of local landscape features, an “overlap between language, location, and magic on the planet…” (AU, “The Selish System,” Kindle p. 18.) On Sel, each unique magical population culturally interprets its native landscape. I think these interpretations become Dominion’s forms. My choice of gravitational potential energy for Dominion’s mechanic may seem weird. Potential energy is stored energy that doesn’t do anything until motion turns it into kinetic energy – like a rock that begins to tumble. Gravitational potential energy depends on the relative height of different parts of the landscape. Even minor elevation differences can yield energy. On Sel, “Vast continents and sweeping oceans create a diverse landscape, with an extreme amount of variation on this one planet.” (AU, Kindle p. 17, emphasis added.) Khriss describes “powers that permeate the landscape.” (AU, Kindle p. 17.) I speculate Dominion’s landscape-based access codes unlock Sel’s gravitational potential energy. At least some Selish magic seems activated by motion: Elantrians draw, JinDo dance, and Bloodsealers and Forgers impress essence stamps. Is Forton’s potion stirred? Perhaps this motion converts the potential energy into the kinetic energy that summons the Dor? Other Shardworlds’ magic systems don’t seem to start with motion. Linking gravitational potential energy with the toddler stage seems appropriate. A sedentary infant’s potential energy becomes the mobile toddler’s very kinetic energy as they learn to resist gravity and move. As the toddler’s world expands, authority needs to set boundaries on that energy. Dominion says, “Know your land and take dominion over it before you can extract its magic.” Cultivation Expression: Transforms Pathway: Life Mechanic: Evolution Life Stage: Puberty Narrative: Adonalsium “transforms” the cosmere to create life I leave Cultivation’s “life” pathway vague. If all cosmere life existed only in the Physical Realm, her pathway might be “living cells.” But spren, seons, and skaze are alive too. I believe Cultivation’s life pathway also winds through them. I think Roshar’s spren are the pathway that brings Cultivation’s power to Roshar’s native flora and fauna, the KR, and fabrials. Stormlight activates the spren pathway to manifest the power each spren personifies (fire, wind, gravity, growth, etc.). Khriss says, “this pattern (the bonding of spren to human) is merely an expansion of what already exists in the nature of the planet.” (AU, “The Rosharan System,” Kindle p. 536.) I believe Cultivation causes this “expansion.” IMO, Radiant spren are Adonalsium spren until Cultivation transforms them. Mutation is an evolutionary process. To me, the source of a KR’s power is the Radiant spren, made from some combination of Honor's and Cultivation's Investiture. The Nahel bond’s Cognitive Connection gives the KR the ability to direct the Radiant spren’s power and enjoy power’s benefits (like self-healing). I believe Cultivation also transforms Dalinar, Taravangian, Lift, and Renarin to help them resist Odium. Dalinar recovers his memories in time to assimilate and integrate them before Odium uses those memories to assault him. Cultivation knows Odium will come to Taravangian on his "bad" days, and I suspect Taravangian’s compassion – his Connection to others – will aid him. Cultivation changes Lift so she can metabolize food into Stormlight. Cultivation (IMO) changes both Renarin and Glys so they can bond each other. Renarin's name shows his uniqueness: “Like one who was born unto himself.” (OB, Chapter 52, Kindle p. 515.) Puberty transforms a person and makes them capable of creating life. That seems the natural life stage for Cultivation’s expression and pathway. Autonomy Expression: Grants Self-Sufficiency Pathway: Water Mechanic: Fluid Mechanics Life Stage: Parenthood Narrative: Adonalsium makes a planet with (IMO) its own self-sufficient consciousness Life needs water for self-sufficiency. Like Autonomy, water easily changes form. Autonomy prefers ocean worlds like Taldain and First of the Sun. Fluid mechanics (which includes aerodynamics) seems an appropriate choice for Bavadin, whom I believe is a shape-shifting dragon. Khriss says a Sand Master’s body water forges a temporary bond between him and the sand microflora. (AU, “The Taldain System,” Kindle pp. 369-370.) This bond lets the Sand Master draw Investiture from the Spiritual Realm to control the microflora’s growth and, consequently, the sand. IOW, water is the pathway down which the Sand Master pulls power from the Spiritual Realm and pushes it into the microflora. Brandon calls Roshar a “created” world. I think Adonalsium made Roshar last. The closeness of Roshar’s Cognitive and Physical Realms suggests Adonalsium gave Roshar its own self-sufficient consciousness. Roshar may represent Adonalsium’s Planet 2.0, a child planet that will grow itself. Roshar, FWIW, is also an ocean planet. I think the Urithiru basement icon of a figure with arms out-stretched above a blue disk refers to whatever consciousness raised the Rosharan continent from the water. Autonomy later does the same when its avatar raises the Pantheon. I suspect much of Autonomy’s “assigned Investiture” is found on Roshar. Preservation Expression: Maintains Stasis Pathway: Metals Mechanic: Metal Science Life Stage: Middle Age Narrative: Adonalsium is content with the cosmere as is Metals form regular crystal structures and have the lowest entropy of the matter states – closest to stasis. Adonalsium looks at his creation (the cosmere) with middle age’s self-satisfaction. He wants to keep what he has. Odium Expression: Breaks Cognitive Connections Pathway: Neuron Death Mechanic: Nonsynaptic Plasticity – affects neurons’ intrinsic excitability; overexcited neurons can cause cell death Life Stage: Later Age Narrative: Adonalsium ages, loses Connections, and foresees his death As people age, they lose Connection with family and friends. They become less responsive and lose their affect. Perhaps the Fain causes Adonalsium’s slippage – is the Fain a Physical Realm representation of Adonalsium’s Cognitive decline? Does Adonalsium foresee the need for heirs? I believe Odium’s magic users get their power by breaking their Cognitive Connections to other people. That’s my lesson from Odium’s failed attempt to turn Dalinar. Empty of feeling – “Alone…So alone” – Odium’s magic users fill their void with power. “Passion” can break these Connections – hate blinds, as does lust, gluttony, and shame. Though not passion, irresponsibility also breaks Connections – “It’s not my fault…” I think Odium’s pathway is neuron death. One way: high neuron stimulation over time (like from passion) can overexcite and kill neurons (“excitotoxicity”). To regain their power, a returned Fused IMO must lose more neurons to break more Connections. This may explain why many Fused can’t speak and appear imbecilic – they’ve come back so often and suffered too much brain damage. Odium is the Shard murderer. He kills the Vessel’s mind, leaving the Shard’s power undirected. IMO, Odium holds “the most frightening and terrible of all the Shards” because of his neuron death pathway. Ruin Expression: Decay Pathway: Increased Entropy Mechanic: Second Law of Thermodynamics: Entropy Life Stage: Death and Decomposition Narrative: Adonalsium dies and “decomposes” – Shatters into 16 pieces of greater entropy “Hemalurgy has a huge cost, ending in net entropy,” since power is lost in attribute transfers. I think a Hemalurgical victim’s decaying blood and Feruchemical attribute conversion into Investiture are examples of Ruin’s pathway of increased entropy. Hemalurgy uses metal as a Focus, but metal is Preservation’s essence, not Ruin’s. I think Ruin uses metal because it has the lowest entropy. Other choices would lose too much power in transit. To me, it makes thematic sense the Ruin-Preservation war should oppose entropy with the cosmere’s most entropy-resistant substance. Ruin ruined Ati. It decayed his will and personality until he gave in to Ruin’s destructive impulse. In Ati more than any other Vessel, nature and expression merged. Other Shards I omit Ambition because we only know its magic inferentially. I also agree with many posters that Wisdom is a Shard, but again, we don’t know its magic. I can certainly envision Ambition and Wisdom as Adonalsium “life stages.” Ambition falls between “self-sufficiency” and middle age. Wisdom should come between middle age and Cognitive decline (or so I’m told). Other Topics I discuss these topics in the following Spoiler: Recent WoB Supports Pathways Theory Meaning of “Essence” “Catalyst” as Cosmere Word Why Non-Metal Catalysts Are Invested The Role of Catalyst in Cosmere Thermodynamics: Awakening Catalysts and Identity

Cosmere magic is a lot to take in. There are almost as many theories as there are Shard posters. Most folks here disagree with my Cosmere Magic Theory. That disagreement on magic fundamentals underlies this discussion. My best advice? Read the books and the WoBs, read other people’s theories, and then develop your own theory. Just make sure your theory’s internally consistent and explains most cosmere phenomena – and revise it often when fellow theorists point out your (too many) mistakes. (Sighs.). Thanks, @Spoolofwhool, for saying this. This thread makes it appear easy to use local Investiture to fuel an off-world magic system. Except for Breath transfers, it is not. The main reason IMO is Identity, which is encoded into each mortal’s Spiritual DNA. I define Identity as the relationship between a mortal and a Shardworld that permits the mortal to use that Shardworld’s Investiture. I think most “hacks” involve changes to the magic user’s Identity. IIRC, Hoid, Zahel and Azure are the cosmere’s only known “hackers.” IMO, “color drain” refers to the withdrawal of Investiture from a person or object. Szeth and Lift develop gray streaks when Nightblood draws Investiture from them. Shardblade-severed limbs turn gray, when they lose Connection to the soul and its Investiture. “Color-drained” objects like Wit’s coat also turn gray. That suggests “color drained” objects turn gray because of Investiture withdrawal. The withdrawn Investiture can’t be in color itself, because color is the reflected portion of the EMR spectrum. Color is how the eye perceives that reflected EMR. Color never actually attaches to the colored object. Rather, color is the part of the EMR spectrum that the object doesn’t absorb. If the object turns gray from Investiture withdrawal, that Investiture must be in the object itself. Only the absorbed EMR spectrum could hold that Investiture in a colored object. It might be “simpler…to say that awakening doesn't draw investiture from the objects which it drains the colour from.” Why then drain color from objects at all? I’m unaware of an alternative explanation. I’ve not seen the statement @Llarimar refers to that “the draining of color on Nalthis is merely a byproduct of performing an Awakening, rather than an actual source of energy.” If confirmed, that would change my view. Good point about Vivenna. Maybe she didn’t dye her hair, but I don’t believe she could drain her Royal Locks to Awaken or they’d be permanently gray. It’s possible in Shadesmar she considers how old and/or tired she is, and her hair briefly changes color to reflect her mood. (Just a guess…) Not “Nalthian Color,” but Endowment’s Investiture. IMO, every Shardworld’s Catalyst is the resident Shard’s Physical Realm Investiture. A recent WoB (“the essence of the Shard is in the Physical Realm”) confirms an older one that a Shard’s Physical Realm Investiture is its “essence.” While empowered by the Bands, Marasi in BoM sees metal as Preservation’s “Concentrated essence, providing a pathway to power.” (Chapter 28, Kindle p. 359.) Unlike some other Catalysts, Preservation’s essence exists cosmere-wide. I do believe that Awakening requires Endowment’s Investiture as its Catalyst. Why should a different Shard’s essence be used to access Endowment’s power? @RShara, would you please show me where Brandon says gemstone “color” can fuel Awakening? If the gemstones absorbed light on Nalthis, I would absolutely agree. They’d then hold Endowment’s Investiture. That’s not the same thing as using Stormlight in gemstones to fuel Awakening. My guess is those WoBs are unclear. Azure in Shadesmar doesn’t need to dye the new human-shaped pieces. Those become the Awakened objects. Other colored objects supply the Investiture to Awaken the new human-shaped pieces. Azure would have brought lots of dyed clothing with her or dyed the cloth on Roshar before her Shadesmar adventure. Or, as you suggest, maybe she carried gemstones she filled with Nalthian light before visiting Roshar. @Calderis, my friend, so many issues we disagree on… I did think your “Intent: Origin and Intepretation” post was outstanding. IIRC, Brandon has made contradictory statements about Awakening. We had some discussion of this last fall, and disagreed then whether his most recent statement resolves the contradictions. OB confirms Awakening on Roshar is possible, but says little about who or how. You and I agree anyone can acquire and transfer Breaths anywhere. We agree anyone holding Breaths anywhere will Heighten. I think we agree that Breath transfers by themselves are not Awakening, that Awakening is the animation of the object to which Breath transfers. Awakening somehow involves color draining, though simple Breath transfers don’t. My model tries to explain what “color draining” means and how it fits the structure of other Catalytic magic systems. But there’s also the issue of Identity. Anyone can use Breaths, a form of Spiritual matter (innate Investiture). IMO, without hacking, only Nalthians (and Hoid, who breaks most rules) have the Identity to use Nalthis’ inherent Investiture, the Spiritual energy that first Adonalsium and then Endowment placed in Nalthis’ EMR. We agree: like other magic systems, Surgebinding needs a “hack” to work off-World. The issue isn’t just the difficulty of “getting your spren away,” though that is an important factor. Spren “can travel elsewhere.” The issue is how functional spren will be when they arrive. This WoB suggests spren’s “Cognitive sense” may suffer outside Roshar’s subastral. @The One Who Connects quotes a WoB that “Surgebinding will work off-world.” This is a true statement because OB tells us human Surgebinding destroyed their prior world. But we don’t know whether off-world Surgebinding would use spren and the same mechanics as Roshar’s Surgebinding. Lift is interesting. Can she metabolize off-Roshar food into Stormlight? Is Wyndle necessary to this process? Will he function properly off-World? Yes, but Brandon says charging the microflora “isn’t really the magic.” Sand Mastery involves shaping the sand. Khriss tells us Sand Masters use their body water to summon Autonomy’s Spiritual Realm power. That power enables Sand Masters to direct the microflora’s Investiture to shape the sand. In my model, that makes the body water Sand Mastery’s Catalyst. IMO, Autonomy’s solar radiation Invests Taldain’s oceans. Through the natural evaporation-condensation-precipitation Water Cycle, Autonomy’s Physical Realm Investiture (the Shard’s essence), is absorbed into mortal bodies. When a Sand Master dehydrates with “Intent,” Autonomy’s Spiritual Realm power Invests the Sand Master. I suspect Autonomy splinters attach as innate Investiture to worthy Sand Master candidates. This structure is just like Awakening and Surgebinding. The Catalyst is the Shardworld’s inherent Investiture (Invested EMR, Stormlight, and Invested water). The Catalyst causes the Shard’s Spiritual Realm power to Invest the magic user. And all metal is Preservation’s “essence.” We have seen an Aviar on Roshar, but we haven’t seen Aviar magic there. The bird may be Invested, but we don’t know whether an Aviar’s Cognitive bond will work off-First of the Sun. We don’t even know if Aviar bonds work off-Patji. We agree: the issue is a magic user’s ability to use local Physical Realm Investiture (the “fuel source”). Again, Nalthian color isn’t different. Color everywhere is just visible light an object reflects. Endowment’s Investiture, IMO held in the EMR Nalthian objects absorb, is different from other Shardworld Investitures. Without Endowment’s Investiture as a Catalyst or a suitable hack, I don’t believe off-World Awakening is possible. Of course, all of this is probably wrong...

@Llarimar, I agree with @Andy92’s comments about Mistborn. I don’t think finding metals is a problem. Ensuring purity and the proper alloy mix could be, but a Worldhopping Mistborn really should know basic metallurgy… Imagine a Full Twinborn like Marsh with an adequate metal supply! Off-Roshar Surgebinding might not work even with Stormlight. Brandon says spren themselves lose capacity if they move beyond Roshar. Awakening is interesting: My opinion: 1. If a Nalthian Worldhops with vats of Nalthian dye and huge numbers of Breaths, they would be formidable. 2. If spren could travel, Surgebinders might be scary. 3. But I’d bet on the Metalborn. Preservation gives Metalborn the ability to preserve themselves anywhere. If the cosmere resembles our universe, metals are its most common substance. A Worldhopping Metalborn has ample fuel for a serious ruckus whosever gin joint she walks into.

Hi, @Weltall! Finally getting back to you…Check out @Calderis' excellent “Intents: Origin and Interpretation” post. You and he convince me the Shards did inherit their Mandates from Adonalsium. But Calderis also convinces me Mandate names are how each Vessel interprets the Mandate and not the “pure intent,” as he calls it. I posted a theory that “pure intent” – the Shard’s true Mandate – is the magical means by which Shards give their power to mortals. Each Shard has its own thematic mechanic. That thread might be the best place to continue our discussion of Mandates. I address the “broken off” WoB there. So far, no one on this thread has questioned what I think are the more controversial parts of my Cosmere Magic Theory – classification of magic systems, their mechanics, and the role of Catalysts. Also, no one’s commented on my definitions. When you’re otherwise bored, maybe you might look at some of this stuff? Again, thanks for the discussion. Regards!

Outstanding post, @Calderis! You’ve clarified (for me at least) an important part of cosmere magic. Mandates (Intent) vs. Personality Here’s more support for your theory: Honor’s Mandate (intent) IMO makes Cognitive Connections. Tanavast interprets this Mandate as binding through oaths (“On my honor…”). If we believe the Stormfather, Honor comes to care more about oath form than he does about oath meaning. Dalinar interprets the Shard’s “Connection-making” Mandate as “Unity,” not Honor. I suspect Dalinar’s Unity magic will have different mechanics than oaths alone. A recent WoB addresses this (emphasis added), though Brandon blunts it with ambiguity: Your Rayse example is also apt. IMO, Odium’s Mandate breaks Cognitive Connections. He styles himself the Passion Shard because passion breaks Connections between people. The Thrill causes Dalinar to kill his wife and soldiers. Odium leaves Dalinar weeping, “Alone. So alone” – un-Connected, except for the single gloryspren that thwarts Odium and keeps Dalinar’s Connection to Honor. Rayse’s “loathsome” personality makes him murder other Vessels. That’s not a necessary use of his power. You note the same thing about Ruin. Sazed says Ruin’s Mandate is “intelligent decay,” entropy. Leras tells Kelsier in M:SH that “ “Everything passes, nothing is eternal. That is what Ati always claimed....” This Mandate overwhelms – decays – Ati’s “kind and generous” personality. Mandates’ Origin I agree, but I think the Shattering occurred after Adonalsium’s death (probably immediately after). Brandon says “Adonalsium Shattered because he was killed.” IMO, the Shattering is the post-death division of Adonalsium’s power. You've convinced me the Vessels could and did choose how to allocate the power. Frost tells Hoid that Rayse “is what we made him to be, old friend. And that is what he, unfortunately, wished to become.” Frost himself distinguishes between Mandate – “what we made him to be” – and personality – “what he…wished to become.” I like how your theory gives new meaning to old evidence. The Vessels’ bodies are long vaporized. To me, Adonalsium, Shards, splinters, and Cognitive Shadows are all minds imprinted on power. I think death to these entities means “mind-death,” loss of the ability to direct their power. Undirected power may Shatter or splinter, but that occurs after mind-death. We may just have a different understanding of the Cognitive Realm. (Every time I think I understand it, something new or weird pops up…) To me, power that develops consciousness automatically “drops into” the CR like Roshar’s bodiless spren do. The Vessels’ minds differ from Adonalsium’s in their capacity only – finite versus omniscient. The minds welded to power all still reside in the CR. This recent WoB (emphasis added) states the Vessels’ finite minds (unlike Adonalsium’s omniscient mind) cannot tap into “infinite power.” I think this WoB promises some interesting twists, like a Shard battle where the more imaginative Vessel beats the nominally more powerful one. Thanks, Calderis! This is among the best theories I’ve read in a while. Nice job! You inspired me to figure out what the “pure intents” are.

Happy New Year, everyone! Best wishes for peace, health, and prosperity! @Calderis’ excellent post concludes “the names of the Shards that we know is not the pure intent of the Shards themselves, but the interpretation of that core concept by their Vessel.” I agree with his insight. This post tries to describe those “pure intents” (what I call Mandates) and suggests Mandates together may form a specific pattern. Theory IMO, Mandates are each Shard’s thematic mechanic, the way mortals get magic from their Shard: “The means of getting powers…are related to the Shard, but not the powers themselves”; and “The 'role' of the Shard has to do with the WAY the magic is obtained, not what it can do.” As thematic mechanics, “pure” Mandates seem to associate with different stages of life – birth, growth, plateau, decline, and death. I think Mandates together may form a “Wheel of Life” (really), but I’m unsure what that means, if anything. Maybe it’s Brandon’s paean to Jordan? Brandon says Adonalsium could have Shattered differently. At minimum, the allocation of Adonalsium’s power by life stage seems to ensure the Shards don’t overlap. As Evi says, “We are all different aspects of the One.” (OB, Chapter 36, Kindle p. 372.) Mandates divide the One’s magical aspects into different gods. Each Shard’s Mandate I list the Mandates – how IMO a Shard gives its magic to mortals – in order of placement on the Wheel of Life. Grants Life (Endowment) Conception/Birth: Endowment’s Mandate gives life (Breaths). Breaths attach to new souls. Each later-acquired Breath gives more life to souls (the Heightenings). Divine Breath gives life to souls by healing them. Awakening’s Breath transfer gives objects life. Sustains Life (Devotion) Newborn: Devotion uses the Dor like mother’s milk to sustain Elantrians without other nourishment. Elantrians get the Dor through Aon Rao’s infusion of Elantris. Elantrians lose power as they travel from Elantris and their mother’s Spirit. Makes Cognitive Connections (Honor) Infant: Infants begin to form emotional attachments. Surgebinders get Honor’s magic through the Cognitive Connection of the Nahel bond. Sets Rules (Dominion) Toddler/Child: As the child’s world expands, authority begins to set rules and boundaries. Dominion’s programmatic forms set the rules by which Sel’s mortals get the Dor. Transforms (Cultivation) Teenager: The child transforms to an adult. IMO, Cultivation transforms native spren into potential Radiantspren. I think honorspren are Nahel-bondable windspren; Cryptics are Nahel-bondable creationspren; etc. Surgebinders get their power through these transformed spren. Grants Self-Sufficiency (Autonomy) Young Adult: The adult goes out on his/her own. IMO, Autonomy’s users get their magic “living off the land.” The Sand Mastery and Aviar systems give magic through local lifeforms. These systems enable Connected humans to survive hostile environments on their own. Maintains Stasis (Preservation) Middle Age: Life plateaus in the middle years. Brandon says, “in Preservation's case, the magic is a gift—allowing a person to preserve their own strength, and rely upon the strength granted by the magic.” Allomancy is a magical prosthesis. Breaks Cognitive Connections (Odium) Old Age: Adults age, and their Connections to others break down. Odium tries to give Dalinar power, and make Dalinar his Champion, by breaking Dalinar’s human Connections. Dalinar is left “Alone. So Alone.” The Thrill gives power by stripping a mortal’s morality, mercy, and remorse. The Fused have no qualms killing Singers, their own race, for whom they’re supposedly fighting. Decays (Ruin) Death: Life ends with death and decomposition, the return of matter and energy to the system. Hemalurgy is a decaying process – what Brandon calls a “net negative” system. Preservation tells Kelsier, “Everything passes, nothing is eternal. That is what Ati always claimed....” Other Shards I don’t include Ambition and the unknown Shards. We don’t know how they give their magic to mortals, except for the unplanned magic of Threnody’s Shades. Since the “Wheel” incorporates only 9 of the 16 Shards, there’s ample room for more life stages, particularly between young adult and middle age. Mandates and Personality – Are Mandates Intrinsic to Power? Read this section if you like “deep theory.” I believe equally valid theories can explain Mandates without affecting the way cosmere magic works – Mandates exist, regardless of why. These are just some stray thoughts. Conclusion I’ve tried to define Mandates in terms of mechanics – how Shards give their magic to mortals. It would be cool if Mandates do form a “Wheel of Life,” but that’s more “let’s keep an eye on this” than “theory” at this point. What do you all think?

Why Odium needs to kill all humans to leave Greater Roshar has bugged me since I joined the Shard in 2014. This is my third or fourth attempt to answer that question. Theory Honor has bound Odium’s Investiture into the “hearts of men.” Odium must destroy Roshar’s human population to free himself from Greater Roshar and recapture his trapped Investiture. Analysis 1. I begin with @ROSHtaFARian2.0's interesting post about Ashyn and its bacteria-based magic. ROSHtaFARian2.0 concludes that magic comes from Honor and Cultivation, but others in that thread rightly (IMO) point out Odium was the god who came with humans to Roshar. This also fits the WoB that Odium came to Roshar after Honor and Cultivation. 2. A bacteria-based magic system comports with my theory of Odium’s magic. IMO, Odium breaks bonds to power his magic. Bacteria breaks down the human body. I think Odium Invested Ashyn’s bacteria to grant magic to Ashyn humans. 3. As ROSHtaFARian2.0 says, bacteria-based magic wouldn’t work on Roshar. Humans came there without magic. But they did come with Odium-Invested bacteria infecting their bodies. 4. I think Honor bound Odium’s Investiture to humans at some point, perhaps immediately on their arrival? Maybe he integrated the Invested bacteria into their bodies? Unclear. 5. This may explain why there are no Honor/Cultivation “Hatespren.” Human emotions spawn all kinds of spren, but we never see Hatespren, only Voidspren that personify Singer emotions. This seems odd to me. Perhaps human hate is internalized into Odium’s Investiture? That bit of Odium Investiture may also explain why Roshar’s humans are incorrigibly fractious.

Thank you all for your kind comments. I do hope folks will also look at the “Cosmere Glossary” and “Every Magic System Analyzed” posts that immediately follow the OP. Additional fodder for discussion… @Weltall, I appreciate the shout-out on the Adonalsium anagram, but this comes from a 2015 or -16 Reddit post. I think Brandon did intend the anagram, even if he wanted the “Adonai” reference. He added the letters to “Adonai” to make the anagram work. Many people agree with you that Shards inherited their Mandates (intents) from Adonalsium. It’s a valid interpretation of ambiguous “facts.” I prefer my equally valid interpretation for these reasons: 1. Here’s another sentence from the OP’s “powers are simply tools” WoB (emphasis added): “The means of getting powers…are related to the Shards, but not the powers themselves.” Another WoB says (emphasis added), “The 'role' of the Shard has to do with the WAY the magic is obtained, not what it can do.” I conclude from this the powers are the same for all Shards; and Mandates are not intrinsic to power. 2. As you say, a different group of Vessels would have different Mandates. That suggests Mandates’ source is the Vessels themselves. 3. We’re parsing the words of a paraphrased WoB; but to me, the “permanent imprint” WoB doesn’t address the source of Mandates. Brandon says, “Holding a Shard is a contest of willpower…over time.” I think he refers to Mandate compulsion. IMO, to maximize power’s efficient flow, power permanently adapts to the first Vessel’s mind and compels each Vessel to align with that Mandate. Mandate permanence and compulsion keep wide a Vessel’s internal “mind-spirit” Connection that directs power. 4. Preservation tells Kelsier in M:SH that "Everything passes, nothing is eternal. That is what Ati always claimed. [Emphasis added.]” IMO, Ati “always” identified with Ruin (Mandate) despite being a “kind and generous man” (personality). 5. As gods, each Shard’s Mandate is “divine” and “separated from the virtues that gave it context.” That doesn’t mean Shards inherit their Mandate from Adonalsium, just that each Mandate is unsullied by the others. 6. “And in the end, it doesn’t even matter” (Linkin Park) whether Mandates are intrinsic to Spiritual Realm power or are imposed in the Cognitive Realm. Power and magic systems IMO would still work the same way. Aluminum and the Shattering: I theorize aluminum makes Adonalsium brain dead. Your cited WoB says aluminum renders Investiture inert and blocks Investiture’s effects. Aluminum does not have to “actively drain or damage Investiture” to make it inert. The Investiture simply becomes non-reactive. When your mind is Investiture and becomes non-reactive, like Adonalsium’s, aluminum kills you. In the cited WoB, aluminum doesn’t prevent a Returned from Returning because the Divine Breath causes the Return, not the Returned’s former body. When the Returned does Return, the aluminum sword prevents the Divine Breath from healing the Returned’s body at the point of contact. Aluminum renders the Divine Breath inert – non-reactive – where body meets sword. Hence, the hole. The Shardblade example’s the same. The aluminum safety guard makes the Shardblade inert where it contacts the Blade – the Blade can’t cut the soul with the guard on. Shardblades suggest if the Returned removes the aluminum sword, the Divine Breath would activate and heal the hole. I look forward to your further thoughts. Thanks again for your comments.