Aleksiel

This doesn't change the point I made about Vargo.

Gavilar also had visions, he was the one who told Vargo about the coming Desolation. So Diagram T likely knew about the champion option.

I suppose the Diagram is just that, a way to beat Odium without surgebinding. Nin thinks sugebinders bring Desolation upon Roshar and I'm inclined to believe he knows what he's talking about. Diagram smart Mr T has definitely taken into consideration the benefits of investiture and decided against them.

Hm, yes and no. Any of us telling Dalinar what we currently know will change his strategy, thus influencing on a large scale the events. If the Kholins know about the Diagram, the Honorblades, that the Heralds won't come to help and so on, their approach will be different. Don't ignore how limited knowledge the characters have compared to readers. Sure, none of us can provide a way to defeat Odium, but influencing major characters' decisions is doable.

Our differences then comes from the fact that I believe Diagram level intelligent T was beyond arrogance and was fully able to grasp all existing possibilities, thus creating the only solution without emotions or ego interfering and clouding his judgement. If you believe otherwise, then I suggest to agree to disagree on this. However, the reason I am reluctant to trust the Diagram is because I think Diagram smart T either didn't have the salvation of humanity in mind as his final goal or he had an additional hidden agenda to go with it. This is pure speculation, I just suspect there will be some plot-twist around the Diagram. edit: changing a word with a more suitable one I just thought of

Since the Diagram predicts the only way to save the world is to follow the Diagram, then it accordingly predicts that not following the DIagram will be the end of humanity.

Any textual evidence to back up your idea of Diagram T refusing to consider other options? He created a course of action that had the best chance to save humanity with the given information. Current average T was wondering how to deal with the Diagrma going off course, but for now the only thing Diagram T hadn't predicted correctly was the number of rioters in Jah Keved. He had even predicted Kaladin among the bridgemen. He hadn't included self-preservation mechanisms in the Diagram to avoid being killed by Szeth or dying in another way, so his own survival wasn't a driving force behind the Diagram.

T concluded Dalinar and the new Radiants won't save the world. This is off the table, no Vargo-Radiants tandem, because it's a lost cause. It isn't an option any more than Kal buying Syl a hat after she died to bring her back.

On the day T created the Diagram, he was almost unimaginably intelligent. He was beyond any egocentric plans then. Note Vargo was fully aware of the possibility of Szeth killing him (and likely other ways of dying), so he intended the DIagram to be fully accessible to those he trusted and for Andro to continue the course towards humanity's survival. This is not the action of an egoistic person, who wishes to rule the world.

I'm not going to argue for or against the Diagram. My point is that T decided there were no other viable options. He apparently believes allying with Dalinar and the new Radiants will doom Roshar. For some unknown reason he is convinced they won't be able to save humanity. I get your feelings, however you aren't really providing another solution.

Also, reverse lashing is what gives the best chances of survival (to someone who surgebinds unconsciously) while on bridgerun, so the two Orders with gravity surge are the likeliest to survive, thus the 'favored by the winds' expression.

He had thought about it and decided it wouldn't work, hence the 'assassinate Dalinar' plan and the whole 'Hold the secret that destroyed the Radiants, you might need to use it'. Why he decided against allying with Dalinar and backing up the Radiants is unclear for now, but I'm confident he had considered and declined this option for a reason.

Hmm, isn't there? You can't be too certain what Diagram T predicted and what he didn't expect.

I though about it, that's why there is the following condition in the OP: You've just missed it

It's a good plan, but that way you'll get in the middle of it all and make yourself a target for Mr T (he probably won't appreciate you helping Dalinar), the 17th Shard might want to you to keep your Cosmere knowledge to yourself, the Sons of Honor and the Ghostbloods will want you with them (and who knows how many other secret societies). Going to the Kholins is a risky decision and will make you instantly known to the most dangerous people on Roshar.

Navani will discover the most powerful paired fabrial ever created. She and Dalinar will use it to cleanse the Tranquiline Halls from everything Odious.

Imagine that due to an unexplained and rare phenomenon you are transported to post-WoR Roshar: You have all your current knowledge; You can speak and understand all languages (doesn't apply to anything written, plus you keep your accent); You have no other skills that you don’t have now; You also have no immediate means to leave Roshar; You end up close to the location you want to be (e.g. if you want to join Dalinar, you appear somewhere in Urithiru). What will you do to survive? Seek out the Ghostbloods – hopefully you’re smart enough to survive until they ask you to join Join team Diagram – they do terrible things, but are so far the only ones with a solid plan, and Vargo already allowed one outsider to be part of it instead of killing her, so you’re probably fine until Szeth comes for retribution Join the Kholins – Dalinar will welcome your Cosmere knowledge, but they might lock you up in Urithiru for your own safety and where’s the fun in that? Join Amaram and the Sons of Honor – shame on you Join Nin and the Skybreakers – no surgebinding powers for you then Warn the Shin - they have 7 Honorblades after all Seek out the 17th Shard – looking for those Hoid avoids, are you sure it’s a good idea? Ask Hoid – he could certainly help you worldhop somewhere more pleasant, but would he? Go to Lift – because she’s awesome and has the best food, also she’s probably the least likely person to harm you in any way Join the Ardentia – this provides you with immediate shelter and food, you’ll have the chance to learn some basic fighting skills and steal a soulcaster, not to mention they’re plotting something… right? Enlist in an army – whichever you want Relax on the Reshi Islands – let others deal with the Desolation Ask the Nightwatcher to bring you back - you still get a curse and your visit on Roshar was a one-time opportunity Survive on your own – if you can Something else – do share your plan! Here's mine: Attracting a spren and becoming a surgebinder seems like my best hope for surviving, though it’s a slim chance considering how very few spren are bonding. I won’t join Mr T, but I also won’t actively try to stop him until I’m certain I either have a better plan or the Diagram won’t save Roshar. Seeking the 17th Shard sounds great on paper, but I don’t want to antagonize Hoid. I’ll also stay away from Nin and co. I won’t go to the Kholins, because they might prevent me from doing much; plus I wouldn't trust Shallan with my life and Jasnah might get rid of me when she decides I’m no longer of use to her. I also want to stay away from the Ghostbloods – it’s an interaction I don’t believe I’ll survive. But I might drop by to speak to Vasher. He’s looking for Nightblood, so he’ll probably appreciate my help on that. He’s a worldhopper, so he might agree to take me to a safer world, though I’ll prefer to stick around for awhile. I’ll go to Lift first. Wyndle is likely to listen to me and Lift will shelter me. They are the easiest to convince to prepare for the everstorm and the Voidbringers. Also, they aren't in the center of a conflict, so I’ll be relatively safe until I decide what to do next. I'll try to avoid all major players and stay off their radar at first, but have the Prime Aqasix write to Dalinar some major things I know as if they were his thoughts. What will you do? edit: minor wording changes and adding a bit more to my plan

Shallan reminds me of Alyssa Sutherland. I really like Jasnah's soulcaster. Both are great, but so different than Shallan and Jasnah in my mind, that I'm gonna need some time to fully appreciate them. Thanks for sharing!

And some more of Gaz and Vathah! Though the latter kind of has Kaladin vibes, but not in so dark hating-all-lighteyes way. I hope there will be more Adolin chapters, can't wait to see how he'll deal with what happened. I generously allow him to whine so long as it is not as much as Kaladin.

I agree about Kal What annoys me about Shallan are denial issues, unfortunately she'll likely struggle with them at least a few more books... I'm not saying I blame her for how she deals with her trauma, just that I don't find it particularly entertaining to read. edit:forgot the 'not' in the last sentence...

. That sounds really creepy and not like building a shelter for actual living people. He's not aiming to build a shelter for some super smart people to survive nor is Vargo planning to necessarily survive the Desolation since the Diagram freely admits Szeth might kill him, I give him that. But he doesn't say anything about in what condition will humanity be after the survival. Parsh-race (er, let's say it's an acceptable word) survived by becoming slave-form Parshmen. I could say the Heralds survived through all the tortures Odium put them through, but I hope Vargo has a better definition of humanity surviving. Since Shallan, I have issues trusting characters. Brilliant Mr T might have left misleading paragraphs such as those to convince his less smart self and others to follow the Diagram, because noone would be able to foresee its final goal. Now, I admit this doesn't have textual evidence and I am overly suspicious on the matter. However, it just feels like the Diagram will have a plot twist in it.

I think he'll soon overcome his unjustified hatred. Kal's far from perfect. For one, he's nearly incapable of taking reasonable responsibility - he either believe himself cursed (like he accused lighteyes for what he has become as if he had no other ways to react), or blames it all on himself (like his fellow slaves deaths), his general over-protectiveness. He has issues with his parents since he didn't have the strength to meet them or even write to them after Tien's death. Kaladin fears he'll lose again the little he has now, has depression, can't go back to normal activities such as going out with friends (he even doesn't think he has other friends than Moash). Kal also has trust issues (which is different from hatred and no longer hating ligtheyes won't resolve his trust issues). Overall, plenty of things Kal needs to work on, he's still a very realistic and relatable character. edit: tagging spoiler

The good in Odium is probably the same as the good in WoT Father of Lies - people have darkness in them and if you take it away, they no longer seem human. You can't have solely honorable people. All Shards so far represent aspects of human nature that co-exist in all of us. Of course, not everyone (or rather very few) experience righteous hatred or truly hate anything at all, but people are capable of hatred, even if most people don't go further than hating a certain food. Honor and Odium seem like a very good match to me. A righteous, honorable person can hate strongly oppressors and wrong-doers like how Kaladin hates lighteyes. He takes his hatred for Roshone and Amaram out of context and wrongfully applies it to all lighteyes. My impression is most readers found it understandable and a sign of realism in Kal's character, so his hatred is part of what makes him human. Take that away without explanation and his character loses credibility.

Do we even know what the Diagram aims to achieve? Sure, Vargo's original goal was the capacity to save the world/humanity and he assumed that in his brilliance he found a way to do so. But he has only vague recollections of the day he wrote the Diagram. He thinks he knows his own endgame, but I'm not convinced he had solely the survival of humanity in mind on that day. To me, the purpose of the Diagram is yet unknown.

Stormlight becomes more potent as the surgebinder progress. When Kaladin was out in the highstorm in WoK, he hadn't even said the First Oath yet, whereas in WoR he is only two Words away from being a KR and knows how to invest. In WoK he had only one sphere with him to inhale stormlight from as opposed to WoR when he had likely grabbed a pouch of spheres or was experienced enough to not need spheres and got stormlight directly from the highstorm.