Elbereth

Night 3 - Ire The accused gathered in the palace that day. The new recorder, Elana, noted down their names, and noticed with a frown that most hadn’t even bothered to show up. She didn’t go into the room where they were, of course. She wasn’t accused. No one else was to be allowed inside until they had come to a decision. So she sat outside the door, drafting correspondences between more important people, and trying her hardest to listen in. She didn’t succeed very much, though - only when the noise rose to shouting. Sometimes about murder, sometimes about Elantris, sometimes even the Jeskeri. She shuddered. At the end of the day, though, while the voices grew louder, no decision was made. No one exited the room at all, until finally someone stumbled out. Elana looked up, then checked her list. “Eilen, right?” Eilen nodded. “That’s me. I’ve been... chosen.” “Excellent!” Elana said, crossing out his name on her list. “Please proceed to the right, you’ll be dealt with shortly.” There were two guards in the hallway to the right, who promptly stabbed Eilen when he tried to pass them. Elana sniffed. “It’s a good thing that’s marble, not carpet.” Arinian was lynched! He was an Arelish Dula who had been poisoned. Vote Tally: Eilen (Arinian) (3): Bob (Steeldancer), Sheodan (Devotary of Spontaneity), Soren Porfiry (Dalinar Kholin), Straw (Straw) Nigel (TheMightyLopen) (2): Amati (Kidpen) Bob (Steeldancer) (1): Bill (King Cole) Sheodan (Devotary of Spontaneity) (1): Ateshao (Drake Marshall), Sheon Idris (Seonid) Sheon Idris (Seonid) (1): Enelan (Elenion) Straw (Straw) (1): Nigel (TheMightyLopen) Convert Tally: 4 / 20 living players are Shu-Dereth converts. Night 3 has begun, and will last 24 hours. Player List

Yes. The day is 48 hours long as normal, apologies for the mistake. The correct clock:

GM error: Please note that there are four living converts. Araris is, in fact, dead. Oops.

Up to you, but the more detail you provide, the more interesting and detailed your death is likely to be, and the more likely you are to be included in writeups.

Yes, and everyone except the Gyorn and Odiv lose.

I did. >> But I only said so in my world doc, because I didn't have time to point it out anywhere else. I've been in lots of rehearsals the past week, so I'm sorry for going silent near the end, but I had a great time before that, and am very happy with my new playstyle (which is definitely a product of time rather than being evil, to be clear). A few more thoughts will probably be coming later, but thanks to Seonid and Rae for running this, and Wilson for helping, and all three of you for dealing with all the issues. You're all fantastic.

Sorry for not getting on in the last couple of days. I had a post written up Sunday morning, but it got deleted and I didn’t have time to rewrite it until today. Given that, some posts from the last day: Drake: Pointing out this bit because it just strikes me as off. Not sure why, and not nearly enough to cast a vote for it, but I don't like it. Pyro: @TheYoungPyromancer So, I disagree with this logic slightly - there are other potential reasons that Odium wouldn’t kill you, and I don’t think it conclusive by any means - but my main question is why you claim that Odium is specifically Khriss. Why? Why not Hoid? I see no reason the same logic couldn’t apply there - so why not even mention Khriss? Bard reminded me that there’s a post of livinglegend’s from even earlier that I forgot to ever comment on. Livinglegend: @livinglegendYou don’t sound angry at all, don’t worry. Yes, the Shards are fun to talk about - that’s my point. I dispute, however, that they’re higher priority than the conversion teams because of how much time they take. First, I’d argue that if this game is balanced (which it honestly seems to be this time, particularly in comparison to previous games), all win conditions should take about the same length of time. Those that don’t probably shouldn’t cause the game to end. Secondly, we can make fairly good guesses about many of the Shardic win conditions, and importantly what many of them probably have in common is that we can see them: Ruin probably needs to destroy all or a certain number of planets, for instance. And we know whenever a planet is destroyed. Similarly, Shattering and Returning and creating aspects of Autonomy are all quite obvious to the village. It’s a lot easier to tell how close a Shard is to its win con, and we know exactly what it can do. Neither of those is true of the conversion teams. We can’t keep track of them nearly as well, so even if the Shards do have sooner win conditions, I’d argue the conversion teams are still at least as much of a priority. Rand: I’ll note that if you did change win condition the same turn as you passed it, it wouldn’t actually pass, for precisely that reason. In addition to Rand's comments (all of which I agree with), I'll note that the lynch is more powerful than it seems right now, because the first cycle we had a no lynch and the second we voted likely-Survival despite knowing he wouldn't actually die. Also, what I'm particularly not fond of is the implication from your post that the game is intrinsically broken or that any of this is the GMs' fault, which I don't think it is at all. They didn't know that Odium would be released N0, or that they wouldn't kill (well, at least N1, given they could've been roleblocked with everyone else last night), or that Ruin wouldn't kill, or that Braize would be destroyed, or that we'd spend so much time on lynches that weren't actually useful. All of that is our fault as players. Last note is that while it'll take a while for people to die, we know that it's quite likely that there are Shards whose win conditions don't depend on death. It's entirely possible that one of those will end the game if achieved, and will likely take place in a normal amount of time as a result even if there's little death. The rules explicitly state that players will be moved to a random world. So some variance is entirely expected. Other thoughts/vote probably coming later.

For reference, the last game you played with me was also the last game I played. It's been a while. I'm confused - you're saying that if Pyro weren't Survival, he would've said so once he was lynched? I don't understand how that makes sense. Or, alternatively, you're saying that his claim has been consistent. Which it has, certainly, but that would happen regardless of whether he were evil. So my vote's going to stay on you for now, because that explanation makes very little sense to me.

Apologies for being absent for a couple of days - other things took priority for a bit, but I have a few quotes to go through (some from reading through the thread when I had the chance over the past few days, others quoted). This is a bit old, but I'm just going to point out that there are five possibilities there that you laid out if he survives. That isn't dramatically narrowing down the possibilities unless there are something like thirty possibilities if he dies. Which there clearly are not. I just spent far too long making the spreadsheet tell me this. Turns out the latest anyone has died in a game is cycle 3, in LG30. Steel, since he died N2 (which is how it'd be marked in the spreadsheet), does not tie that record. You're not trusted, Pyromancer, because there are people in this game who are lying. We know that. We don't know if you are one of them, but we do know that it's certainly possible, and can't discard the possibility. And you'd only be vulnerable to a single player, if the village also lynched you. Even getting one of them would make it harder to get rid of you. I want to point out the contrast between this and your post from yesterday, which outlined 5 possibilities if he survived (or two, if you prefer to put investiture under a single heading). One of which was that he was telling the truth. Why, then, do you suddenly state so strongly that you trust Pyro? What reason do you have for believing that he didn't use Preservation? Also, side note and not directly related to this post in particular, but am getting a strange read from you this cycle. I'll point it out more carefully later if I remember, but will be watching regardless. Because he explicitly wanted it. I expect that if Rand is correct, they'd like Odium to kill him or you on suspicion of being Cultivation. Alternatively, from any alignment, they could just be doing it to confuse people, or to create PMs that aren't likely to do much while they wait to be converted (since it's a pretty decent guess that their win condition involves creating PMs). That wouldn't be ideal, but is possible. Could you give your reasoning here, HH? You say that Pyro is Survival, but give no reasons for that, particularly given your opinion that Pyro was Hoid last cycle. Why does it make more sense for him to be Survival than Hoid? Agreed with all that a Pyro lynch does not seem like a sensible idea. My current thoughts for a vote are HH (again >> but I don't like the post I quoted above, and stand by my previous reasoning) and Monster (whose posts this cycle felt off). I may switch between them or somewhere else if I see something else, but will vote on HH for now (mostly on the grounds that MM is less able to defend his case since I know there were posts I found suspicious that I'm not going to go back and point out right this moment). Happy now, Rae?

Interesting. That's true, and definitely useful for Hoid. And, in fairness, it would explain why Pyro thought that claiming Survival is actually a good idea - I don't think it actually helped him in the lynch any, and he would've survived anyway. While this is true, to my recollection every single one of those lynches were for not providing enough explanation for a vote or comment. This is different, I think, because there are more specific reasons and suspicions than 'he's acting strangely'. This comment does strike me as really off, though. It's highly likely that not all of these people are evil, and it's entirely possible to be lynched by villagers - why immediately jump to thinking that anyone voting on you must be evil? You also describe each of these actions as suspicious, and I don't think any are. Hopping on a lynch train, potentially, though bandwagoning happens just as often with villagers as eliminators in my experience. But thinking you're Ruin - why is that suspicious? Why is not replying to your reply suspicious?

As others have pointed out, lynch suggestions have happened, and without having done a vote count I doubt anyone has more than two votes on them at moment. I have a vote on HH. Actually, I'm just going to go through and do a vote tally: Straw (4): Fifth, Stick, Rand, Eternum Pyro (3): Mage, MM, Headshot Sand Lord (1): Straw HH (1): El Arinian (1): Bard That's very much not a solid lynch, and even less a situation in which no lynch suggestions have occurred except on you. I'll note that I'm decently certain it's a vote with each aspect per each action Autonomy has, which is two extra votes as a reasonable maximum. Which isn't great, but isn't infinite, either. (This is in response to my question of whether he actually read through the thread yesterday when he said he did.) Given that, why did you say a page or two ago you have no idea what's going on? Other than non-villagers, you have just as much idea as anyone else. I noticed that, too, and decided it wasn't worth pointing out. I do think it points slightly towards villageness, though, as if she were self-aware, elim!Stick would notice the irony and probably avoid it. Could you clarify those reasons anyway, even if they're obvious, and tell me why a single invested Shard is dangerous enough that it isn't worth the side effect of everyone on the world getting charges from it? More generally, I'm wary of this post because it's fairly clearly drawing focus onto Shards and thus away from Hoid/Khriss. And while the Shards are clearly more interesting to talk about - look at Orlok's data of relative mentions - that only means we need to be more careful not to ignore the conversion teams. @Hemalurgic Headshot, thank you. That was far more useful than anything else you've said this cycle. I was going to point out the same that Rand did, which is that Fusing Shards would get noticed pretty fast, and so that's a fairly unprofitable gambit for Hoid in my opinion. Also, would you justify your claim that lynching him is a good basis for information? As I see it, pretty much any other player is more likely to give useful information from this lynch than Pyro's. I'm not yet removing my vote on you, but am much more likely to do so now once I consider my other options.

True. In fairness, until this game I understood that viewpoint far more. I like being tactful, and suggesting things gently, and trying to find the most optimistic possibility when figuring out what someone means. And those things serve me well pretty much everywhere, except here. Here, it's in my best interest to pressure people and see how they react. Meta, when he played, was an excellent player pretty much entirely due to being aggressive (also, not caring about his own death at all). He was very good at generating discussion D1, because he'd call out things that he didn't even believe, just to see how people would react. And it worked remarkably well. Anyway. I'm basically saying that I acknowledge that it's difficult, and am saying in general to do it anyway, because it helps the game immensely. Sure. That does make more sense. The important part, I think, is the "I condemn" bit - you read as essentially equivocal in saying "it seems like a good idea but could be like a no lynch" which put together doesn't really push you strongly towards either position. Regarding the Sand Lord, I'm undecided. I think theoretically, the lynch is more useful to the game, but in practise that may not be the case. I doubt that a number of action scans would be useful in catching Shards, though less so for Khriss/Hoid (given they may already have finished converting, and likely would abstain in doing so after lynching an aspect occurred specifically to avoid being caught). It could alternatively make Shards (at least, any who decide to go for their win con) less likely to take actions, which is both useful - as they're probably not advancing their win condition that way - and not, as investment roles could be helpful to the village. Also, thought I just had. This game is going to go on for a long time as is - going off of this cycle, Odium is apparently not killing, Ruin is destroying worlds, only Hoid has a charge of Odium's investiture unless anyone's already exchanged on Roshar, and Braize is gone. Plus there's a whole lot of protection floating around, some of which can protect from the lynch, which is our only reliable source of kills. And the Hoid/Khriss teams are small enough that outnumbering will take longer than in a usual game, and I'm guessing all the individual Shardic win conditions are difficult as well. Using the lynch to instead lynch aspects makes the game go on even longer. I'd rather not have that happen, personally. Given the above, I don't think a number of action scans have enough worth to merit a lynch at moment, and would advocate against lynching the Sand Lord for the moment. Technically, faint village read. Rationally, neutral - I don't think there's anything in the PM that he wouldn't have said as an eliminator. I think it's interesting, and would be a good play for an evil team. I'm also fairly certain that even if evil, he'll be able to survive the lynch, and am not sure there's a particularly good way to resolve his alignment except for being lynched and then hit by either Odium/Ruin (which seems unlikely if they're not village, though Odium might be pleased that we're doing his work for him, which is not particularly useful either). Basically, I think it's worth consideration, but would rather lynch others who are more likely to actually die for at least this cycle. If he turns out to be Survival, we'll have wasted at least a cycle, and I think the first few cycles particularly ought to be about gaining as much information as we can.

This is a very safe move. Why are you waiting on others' responses? You can critically think about this idea just as anyone else can. Sitting back and waiting for others to do the work isn't terribly helpful in contributing to discussion. Re: Survival, that's a decent point, and one I hadn't considered fully. I still am inclined to believe Pyromancer based on the tone of his reveal, but less strongly so than before. As for your first point... With all due respect, I don't understand that at all. If you're village and suspect someone, why would you hold back just because other people are saying they're village? How does that help? You might be wrong, yes. And it's okay to be wrong, but so long as you update your suspicions based on evidence and discussion, it helps to be firm in what you think regardless. A whole lot of productive discussion can be generated when you have opposing viewpoints. That discussion is more difficult when one of said viewpoints is giving in before they start. And, importantly, you are only 100% certain of one person's alignment: yours. You are confirmed good, if you're village. So treat yourself like it. Listen to your own suspicions, because only following good players and not thinking for yourself is how villages die. (Particularly when those good players die, and you're left several cycles into the game without any strong opinions of your own and little idea what to do, which makes you very easy for the eliminators to manipulate.) You also might be right. It's entirely possible to notice something or feel something off that most players don't. I called out Aman D1 in LG21, and turned out to be right. (And dead, unfortunately.) And, for players like Rand, they're going to get a lot of village reads regardless of their alignment. They're good at this game. So just because everyone is assuming someone's village doesn't mean you're wrong in calling them out otherwise. Be prepared to defend yourself, of course, but that's the entire point of generating discussion. Not all of that is entirely relevant to this specific circumstance, but I think it warranted saying. Noted. I don't know your past playstyle enough to judge the truth of that, but it still helps allay my suspicions (but if you are village see my points above to Drought). Eternum, you said yesterday you were about to start reading through the thread and catching up - did you?

That’s absolutely fine. I’m not asking for a response immediately. I’m not even asking for notes on both of the players. I’m asking for your thoughts about the game and beyond ‘I’m not evil’, because this far this cycle you have failed to provide any. We don’t have proof, no. No one’s counterclaimed, which is potentially telling, but there are possible reasons Survival wouldn’t counterclaim. Mostly it’s just that the way he said his claim seemed honest. We don’t know that it is, but it’s a decent guess. And we haven’t yet discussed killing him, just because it’s be sort of annoying to do - particularly with Braize gone. Though we could certainly be more certain of his role if he survived the lynch. Te second half of this bit strikes me as off. Specifically, you’re trying to draw attention and suspicion to a very good player without outright saying you think yourself that he’s suspicious. Which is exactly what an eliminator would want to do in order to make him less trusted/get rid of him without implicating themselves.

(this has been in my multiquote for a while and I haven't used it till now, which is why it's old) I don't think I'm misconstruing what you're saying - sadness at not having a lynch is understandable, yes, but the point Orlok and I were both making in response is that your particular death wouldn't have added pretty much anything to the lynch. Another death would, yes, and it's unfortunate that one didn't happen, but you staying alive benefits the village far more than your death. One, I'd point out that some of those vessels could be members of converted factions, and if (though I think it unlikely) we do in fact only have the original converters, they have decent likelihoods of having Shards (particularly Khriss). So technically the best case scenario is... 1 AC/1 Shard, 1 SoH/2 Shards (because I think Khriss could get two if she got them on the same night), 6 other vessels, and 14 Sharders. But that's even less likely than the best case you outline. Secondly, it's possibly a good idea not to indicate in thread whether you have investiture or not. I'd rather not give converters (if they have conversions left) any further information on who would be a better convert than who. It is fairly clear that some people have gotten investiture - I, for instance, was one of the one or two who took investiture from Cultivation in order to PM Orlok. More generally, though, is it really that likely that every Shard, both nights, has had either more than two people steal from it or none? @MonsterMetroid, given what people have later said about Ruin's actions specifically being non-village, why do you claim here that removing Braize was a village action? Hm, interesting. @Orlok Tsubodai, I don't believe you ever replied to my comment about listing suspicions being a way for eliminators to keep to their baseline. Would you care to do so? Why do you (and several other people, but particularly you) think that everyone has PMs? Why do you think this game is hard for the elims to win? In theory, it's a balanced game, and so should be about as hard for them as for any other team. Also, while you later retracted that vote, you never responded to Rand's point about him not truly being a perfect candidate for conversion just because he was cleared village last cycle. Are you retracting your vote because people have told you that voting based on likely conversions is bad, or because you are actually less suspicious that he's evil? This. Along similar lines, I can think of multiple occasions when high-profile players have been accused of being converted and lynched, without being able to defend themselves, and being rather irritated about it. Being lynched because you're a good player isn't pleasant. Honestly, yes. Particularly this early in the game. Hypocrisy isn't great, but it's particularly the not-being-helpful that's a good reason to lynch you: it's in the incentive of the eliminators not to be helpful (for instance, by generating non-alignment indicative discussion so the village has nothing to go on, as you attempted to do in bringing up the D1 lynch). And more harshly, if you aren't being helpful to the village then you're a better lynch than those who are. Also, the second half of that post says almost nothing. "Though it's definitely plausible you were converted, you probably weren't converted." It's hard to be more equivocal than that. Given both of those, Hemalurgic Headshot. At the very least, tell us who you suspect or trust. You've defended yourself this cycle, but only that - what do you think of other players, or their plans? What do you think about Braize being destroyed or there being no Odium kill? You can't help the village unless you participate. So do. Apologies for not posting earlier today. School's been cancelled tomorrow, so I ought to be around a fair bit.

If I were, wouldn't I be less aggressive? Don't worry. I have absolutely no intention of stopping. I'm enjoying this, and am creating useful discussion through it. If anyone tries to lynch me over being more aggressive, I am more than happy to defend myself, but I don't think anyone has - only pointed it out. Regarding who they'd convert, I don't think there's too much value in looking at that, though there is some. On a basic level, a converter would ideally want: someone they have good synergy with, someone who they consider a good player, someone who shares the same timezone, someone everyone thinks is village, but most of all someone who other people won't suspect of being converted. That last one is what makes it into an IKYK, and not really useful. We can make some guesses - they're unlikely to convert a complete inactive, though I'm not sure if we even have any of those this game - but beyond that, their imperative is to make sure we can't guess who they'd convert. We can keep a closer watch on the players who are better targets for conversion, but given they're basically the definition of high profile players that was going to happen anyway. And agreed with Orlok that we got more information out of the discussion than we would've with your lynch, Fifth. What would have changed with your death except eliminating the 2% chance you were evil at the time? The end of the cycle was definitely worth that 2%, in my opinion.

That doesn't engender a particular confidence in me that you'll help the village, though. Particularly given the points I mentioned the other day about Survival being a great negotiator for everyone, but particularly the Shards and Hoid/Khriss. Less so the village. If you dance to the whims of whoever might kill you, and we ordinarily can't do so, it's in our interest to do our best to become a danger to you so that you either don't work against us or are gone. And Monster, I'm aware of that, but see no reason not to discuss it now given there's not much else being discussed at moment.

I notice that the one group which you don't really mention helping meaningfully is the village.

I agree with Orlok about you being cleared in this instance, where you wouldn't normally have been for that ploy. Here you go. Everyone go and read that if you haven't, as it's excellent. Why the T? Interesting. I agree that that's a valid point to bring up - it isn't how I read your initial post. Pointing out that the elims can act more like villagers because they can hunt each other is worth pointing out. Saying that they'll be hunting each other, without mentioning that this will be through the lynch, gives an entirely different impression to me, and one that's of far less worth. Thank you for clarifying, then. General thoughts: I'm also irritated about the no lynch, and also agree that Pyro is pretty likely to be Survival. My suspicion of HH remains, and I'll likely vote on him again next cycle unless I find something more suspicious in the meantime. And I'm pretty sure it's already been asked, but I'll echo the question put to those who voted no lynch: why? To me, it seems like a way to remain neutral and not get involved in the petty dealings of figuring out who will die, despite the fact that someone will have to if the game's going to advance. More thoughts (and hopefully RP, as I just realised I haven't RPed in quite a while) coming later.

Ah. Right. I’m... not sure what I thought your original statistic was, in retrospect, but it’s what I was trying to ask for. Nevermind, then. On that note, given I’m apparently too tired to think clearly, I’m going to bed. See you all in the Night cycle.

I agree - and would further specify that while it's a valid strategy, I think it too risky this late in the cycle. Were it earlier, the village could well decide that he was mostly cleared for wanting to die and move on to better targets, but this late that had (and still has? I don't know the vote count at moment) a chance of happening low enough that it wouldn't be worth risking your life as an elim. Hm. Which is fair, yes. While I'm now curious about the statistics of elim team percentages, that makes sense, though isn't quite what I was pointing out. It isn't that you're drawing attention to them - I think that a very good thing - but that it felt like you were overemphasising their danger, which isn't quite the same. But then, I particularly hadn't considered the advantage that conversion gave, which helps balance out crossfire between the teams and makes them more dangerous than I'd considered. I'm also curious - which, to be clear, I'm not asking for an answer right now, as sleep is important - what the percentage of posts is if you lump the Shards together and compare it to Hoid/Khriss.

I suppose it depends what you mean by destroying Odium, then. I wouldn't count him as destroyed in that instance, certainly, but can see why you might.

Ah, right, yes - I had that thought when reading and forgot by the time I got to posting. While true, it's vanishingly unlikely that that actually happens, so I'll amend my statement to "practically impossible", with the note that in order for Odium definitely not to come back Cultivation would also have to be Shattered. And also that if Odium converts someone, their win con stays the same even if Odium shatters.

Right. A few things to say, before I go study philosophy. @TheYoungPyromancer, regarding being difficult to read: that's a viable strategy over time, yes, but does take away information from the village when you're village - it helps you, but not your team, particularly if everyone else gets suspicious of you for it and is distracted from whoever the actual elims are. Also, it was pointed out to you that we can't get rid of Odium, and I'm not sure you ever responded. Did I miss that? If not, what are your thoughts on the matter? @Megasif, why bring up the point about Hoid and Khriss being enemies? While probably true, particularly as the game gets later, I'm not sure what the point is in discussing it now, and don't think it provides anything except a slight false sense of security. Regarding Fifth's first post about lynching HH, I'm fine with it and would be happy to lynch Hemalurgic Headshot (far happier than lynching Fifth, who I think is good with about 98% certainty). Devotary. I would point out that Fifth misinterpreted one of my points, about HH bringing up the lynch discussion - it's not that "not having a read one way or another on a player who has posted as frequently as HH has this game isn't good simply on the basis that said person should have said something analyzable". It's that while whether-to-lynch discussion tends to be NAI, bringing up that topic in the first place is not, and makes me lean elim on him. The village doesn't benefit from NAI discussion; eliminators do. @Orlok Tsubodai, minor clarification because I can't remember if I pointed it out already - we've had at least two SK wins in the history of SE. The point stands that it's vanishingly rare, though. I'd also note that 27% is not "much higher than in normal games", Orlok. 2% away from the high end is not that high, particularly since it's not a single cohesive team. While the conversion teams are definitely dangerous, I feel that you're overemphasising their danger a bit too much. @Droughtbringer, I don't really understand your defence of Jondesu. The line "waiting will give us more of a chance of hitting elims", in particular, strikes me as off. It's true, as with all conversion games, but that doesn't give an actual reason we shouldn't be lynching now as well. Just because there will be more elims than there are now doesn't mean we can't try to find those that already exist. (And I don't think that advocating no lynch is all that alignment-indicative, particularly as from memory he's referencing previous playstyle. If village!Jon would do it and elim!Jon knows that, elim!Jon is going to do it.) I don't have any strong read either way on Jondesu myself, but don't like your defence there. While true, I'm fairly sure (though not absolutely certain) that if a Shard is invested in a world, we get told, and could benefit just as well as Khriss' converts from the invested Shard. Also, Khriss and her converts moving to said world would be dangerous, as we'd be specifically looking for that sort of thing. Lastly, I agree with Sart. Lynching Fifth, while it might give us information about what's happened previously in the cycle, cuts off the flow of said information now and gives us no more if we just lynch him. I'd rather have more discussion, and lynch someone I think is evil - I'd far prefer leaving a semi-inactive very likely villager alive to go after a player who's far less likely to be village. I likely won't be on again until the night turn, or only briefly, so good luck to all.

I definitely have been more aggressive this game than I remember being. That said, the last time I played, didn’t go inactive, and wasn’t neutral, was arguably QF22, a year ago. Even if you go by most recent game, I’ve grown a lot since LG39. So I’m not surprised my playstyle’s changed, and I’m happy with the change thus far. I’m just going to point at this post because it’s says a lot of useful things I hadn’t thought about. Had I not entirely missed them myself, I’d be suspicious of people saying that Odium is a problem. It honestly makes far more sense that their win condition would be to shatter all Shards, since that’s far easier than a SK win condition. It’s also an excellent point that shattering Shards doesn’t directly harm the 17th Shard. Why are you trying to be hard to read? Who does that benefit? Would like to say more, but I’m about to fly home, so Ilol be back either tonight or tomorrow morning.