RShara

So when I discussed atium up above, I mentioned that it only let you see a few seconds into the future. I'm theorizing that because it's a limited use of Ruin's power that it's relatively free of Shardic influence, unless, say, you've been storing, tapping, and burning it for oh...1000 years. You mean the Vessel, here, right? Sorry, just making sure you don't mean a person with a sprenBlade. The reason I think this is because of what Brandon said about it, "Drawing on a Shard that is...." then concludes that it's dangerous territory. And we have seen that people with future-seeing being influenced by the Shard it comes from. Also, remember that Preservation did something to separate and hide the atium from Ruin, making it more difficult for him to sense it. Seeing the future can clearly be wrong, because we have free will. With the more encompassing intelligence that comes with Shardic power, they are able to weigh probabilities and percentages and chances far better than we can. But they can still be wrong. Even a Shard can't encompass infinite possibilities. Even short-term future sight can be wrong or tricked. Witness Vin figuring out how to beat Zane in WoA. Anything that a Shard do is going to be colored by the flavor of their power. Anything that a person does with Shardic power is also going to be flavored by the type of power. My theory is that drawing more on a Shard's power brings you closer to the Shard, to the power's motivations, as well as possibly the Vessel. The Vessel can also be self-deluded. I believed that Odium saw very high chances of Dalinar becoming his champion and had been herding him in that direction for a long time. But no future sight will ever be perfect, and Cultivation snuck Dalinar in past Odium's guard. Witness Preservation's long game regarding the HoA, and even the Kandra. We don't know how Odium's future-sight compares to Cultivation's, or Harmony's or Endowment's. All we know is that Honor thought he was bad at it, and Cultivation was better. Cultivation, as change-toward-growth, might be able to weigh and judge the probabilities better, or hide her agents from others' future-sight better. I'm not willing to make a guess on that at this time. Also, I still need to update the OP for electrum and Aviar. Getting to it, I promise.

Yeah, Brandon has said that Wit did not take or switch the Blades. It should be back on page 1 somewhere, I think. But in thousands of years of battle, they've never been knocked out with their Blade out? And if they did, none of the enemies that would be around thought to try and pick up the Blade? (Okay, really done now )

Warbreaker spoilers

No. Cal is 100% wrong. /thread There, happy?

But both of those refer to regular people, not to the person for whom the Honorblade was specifically made. In thousands of years of violence, no Herald was ever knocked out in battle with his Blade out?

Szeth says that the 9th Honorblade "Disappeared long ago." "This one had vanished" doesn't sound like "This one had been given back to its Herald."

Yes, Nightblood(the book) is meant to be about Vivenna and Vasher and how Vasher lost Nightblood.

Right, I know that. I'm saying, should Kel *try* to take over a Singer body, Odium could just stomp him into the Beyond instead.

Yep, that's the current thinking. Great job coming to that conclusion yourself. I personally completely missed it until I read the idea

Yes but as a Cognitive Shadow, he'd have a lot of trouble leaving Scadrial. Besides, why would he want a Singer body, and wouldn't Odium just Beyond-Stomp him?

Hey. I said NOT very tool-like!

Heading to bed but I gave two reasons above for why someone would switch rather than steal the Blade. Neither of which would make sense for the Shin. Which is what I meant by the last text you quoted. I can clarify more in the morning if needed. i gave several reasons why Taln would still be bonded to his Blade. He isn’t some random person with an Honorblade. It’s his, made for him by Honor. Meant to stay by his side through war and battle and torture and hiding and death. I just don’t see how passing out would unbound him. And again if they can pop in and out untraceably, why bother to leave a deadBlade in its place? No tracks or traces means no trail leading back to them.

Haha sorry. I have no other definitive proof, so you might be right. But I don’t agree

Sorry I'm late to the party! I'm totally slacking off here Anyway https://wob.coppermind.net/events/160-words-of-radiance-dayton-signing/#e2881 Sadly, the above quote is paraphrased. But refugees definitely stand out. If they're refugees, then they are not likely created by Cultivation. Additionally, we see the PoV (and passing glimpses) of Axies the Collector, who is a Siah Aimian. He doesn't really seem very tool-like to me

As I've said. One supposition I could go with. Two, even. But two suppositions, and two or three high difficulty maneuvers, causes it to be too improbably for me. And I ask again, what motives do the Shamans have to switch the Blades? Yes, it means that they had to know it was an Honorblade, but it also means they have a motive for other people to either think that the Honorblade is still present, or that Taln is not a Herald. There might be more possibilities beyond those two, but they seem the most likely to me, and neither of them make sense for the Shamanite. These are the points I dispute (copied from page 1, with edits): 1. That the Shin have a way of knowing when an Honorblade is unbound. This has a really big assumption built in--that they are using some form of magic or magically enhanced tracking. Szeth has so far made no mention of any particular powers among the Shin, other than the Honorblades themselves. I find it much more likely that they are monitoring for news about Szeth and will trace the path of the Honorblade from that point. 2. That they would confuse the Windrunner blade with the Stoneward blade with whatever tracking they have. If there's a tracking system, it would make more sense for it to be on the blade, rather than a worldwide "Honorblade Alert! Alert!" system. Also, Taln dropped his Honorblade, yes. But he didn't "Unbond" it. He's still alive and didn't dismiss it. We don't have any information on how deep or shallow an Honorblade's bond to its Herald is. But given it goes with them to Damnation and back, and hasn't ever been taken away from them after who-knows-how-many millennia of torture and death, I think it's safe to say that the bond is pretty strong. Nale has had his Honorblade for "a long time" so if they have a general Honorblade Alert system, how would they know whether it was Nale's blade or Szeths? And a few other things that seem very difficult. 3. I know the Shin have access to the Honorblades that confer the Transportation surge, but being able to pop in, grab and *switch* the Blade, and pop back out seems like something that would be very difficult to do. Since the Shin find warriors and fighting rather lowly, it seems unlikely they'd be very good at sneaking, infiltration, theft, and cover up. Not to mention, the Blade was likely separated from Taln and put under trusted guard pretty much right away. So they would have had to track down where the Blade was being held before they could get to it. An inside job would make a lot more sense. 4. Where did the fake Honorblade come from? Do the Shin have a bunch of random Shardblades hidden away too? Given that they find Stormlight and fabrials profane, it seems unlikely that they'd be willing to keep dead sprenblades lying around. 5. What motive would the Shamans have to switch the Blades? A snatch and run would be easier and make more sense. Yes, this means that someone didn't want the switch to be immediately obvious. Someone who was *aware* that Taln was really a Herald. You said yourself in your first post that That argues *against* them knowing Taln was back and thus against them swapping the Honorblade.

It could have been centuries or millennia. Szeth only says, "long ago" and Nale's been running around for 4500 years. And as I said, I could accept one or two of the suppositions and difficulties. But all of them together is way too improbable for me.

They've had 8. Nale stole hid from them decades ago (long enough that Szeth only had stories and drawings). Taln's had his until recently. Szeth had his for 6 years. And again, (this is to Cal as well) why would they bother to *switch* the Honorblades? Why not just take it, as rightfully theirs, and leave? No one would care or know. Switching them implies a far subtler motive than just recovering an Honorblade.

Brandon implies that metal is the preferred/best/normal route https://wob.coppermind.net/events/62-firefight-seattle-public-library-signing/#e3088

Hemalurgy works everywhere

Why would he want to? It’s been proven ineffective. Trying it again would be throwing good money after bad. Or rather throwing good people to be tortured and broken

*cough*You'vealreadyseenDemoux*cough* However, Brandon's said he doesn't want worldhopping and the greater Cosmere to come to the forefront quite yet, though there will be more easter eggs in SA than in earlier (timeline wise) books.

You might want to take "Elhokar's Spren" out of the title of the thread, as that's a rather significant spoiler.

So a month is about 40 of our days long if my math is right. (.9636*20*50)/24 = 40.15 Over the course of thousands of years, their bodies probably adapted to the different planet and diurnal rhythms.

Here's Karen Ahlstrom's post about the OB timelight, highstorms, and calendar. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/292-brandons-blog-2017/#e7833

But the person who does the stabbing has to be influenced to the point where there is enough intent for the spike to steal the ability. As in, Ruin was guiding the hand, and getting the mind to think in a certain way. We saw no sign of that happening with Moash, and we see it from his PoV. No whispering in his mind, no, "Stab him right there" or anything like that. Here is the description Marsh gave of spiking Penrod. I left out the parts where Marsh is musing. So being guided by Ruin was a very careful and specific method. Not very subtle either. Quellion, the man who stabbed Spook, was influenced similarly: So it needs pretty active guidance and pinpoint accuracy in order to work as a hemalurgic spike.