Haelbarde

Apologies, read some of thread when I woke up, but then got distracted painting minis. Going to go reread thread and collect my thoughts.

Unfortunately not. The flip 2&4 doesn't apply to cards played after it, so that's a bust at 23. Tablemaxing only applies if you get a score below 20 after playing 9 cards. It was foolish of me to put them as village in my reads, given I placed them on my slight village read because I was confident they were IC. Given that was the actual reason, I'd have had to come up with something, so I would have looked back at their posts at that point, and likely would have commented something along the lines of "They seemed earnest enough in their posts, engaging in the right sort of way to be helpful to the village, provided they do continue to post. Based on my general impression of them, without any immediate red flags to me, willing to bump them into slight village over goodish neutral vibes."

Heh fair enough.

Though I'm guessing it's saying you don't think favourably of my response, I'm not sure what you mean by shadow repeat

The vibes list was a way of representing where my head was at at the time, without writing down all the specifics of what was prompting those thoughts. I can go through and actually vocalise those thoughts this cycle if you want, but I think Dannex made it on to the Badish list based on their responses earlier in cycle not feeling quite right. Again, can pull up the specifics for you in the morning. The actual choice to vote on Dannex was then based on considering the options on the Badish list, arriving on Dannex mostly by a matter of elimination. It's been awhile since I've played regularly, so although it's likely not the best strategy for supporting one's alignment, I prefer to avoid immediately killing old acquaintances. So in this case, Devo and Kas had a pass. Nerdy got a pass for it being their second game, and I don't think getting D1'd that early in one's SE career is fair. I killed TUN cycle 1 last game, after which I learned they'd recently died early in the previous few games or something, so I really didn't want to kill them first turn either. That left us with Dannex and Wiz. The decision there was based on Dannex having made more posts which seemed more significant for a bad vibe to be sticking around, than Wizards... 3 posts? Of which I think only one was noteworthy. Kas' reactions last cycle after he put himself up for execution were making me strongly read Kas as village, so that then reinforced the desire to remain on Dannex to keep Kas alive, though I would have accepted a Wizard counter execution had there been enough additional interest in supporting Aman on Wizard. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Cycle 1 comments on rules are almost always very telling, particularly when relating to those unique to the game, or when it's more of a rolemadness game. It's funny, it's often the coinshots that best can explain the coinshot rules if anyone happens to be confused in thread If you want, I can go back and find in my earlier games examples of me doing that sort of analysis before. I definitely know I've made accurate predictions based on that sort of thing before, though it's been so long since I've played that I couldn't say for sure that it is spelled out in a post, doc, or PM.

Mm. That with the following comment about how the game worked re:finding the hidden minority felt very much like someone with access to the doc who found they actually had to reread the rules.

Sigh. >> This is why I keep talking about opsec at the start of most games. I'd have probably night killed JNV myself just based on their posts last cycle. I guess Dannex not posting was vanilla villager disengagement, rather than any sort of doc action then. :/ Yeah, I can accept that. @Ookla the Omniscient Is my vote intentionally missing from Dannex?

I'm not sure I really understand what this is trying to say though. I don't call that Nerdy's own paranoia, and I'd call it partly just wrong time, wrong place, where had someone else been arguing at the time, and Fifth wasn't involved, the vote could have easily gone elswhere.

IF Almod is Exotic, then maybe Nerdy?

It's a tie atm, right? Do we know what happens on a tie?

Glad I could be of some service Mattrim

It's potentially a good opportunity for last minute elim doc kill order conversations, certainly.

I'd be willing to shift, but only if there was other movement away from Kas.

Isn't Fifth voting on Matt still? I'll note that I described them as vibes rather than solely reads because there's little to go on right now. Fifth got a Goodish because their posts feel par for course to me. Only reason why you're not on goodish is because I want to avoid reading you strong village out of habit, and I felt a little weird about the focus on Merlin at the time. I've not had the chance to actually process this yet, so I hadn't adjusted anything on the reads/vibes.

I wouldn't say I'm fine with it so much as not having the energy to interact with it, given I feel there's little chance of response to it at this stage of the cycle. EDIT: The vote in question:

@Kasimir These are the votes on you. Dannex was as throw away poke vote copying your throwaway poke vote on Devo in the opening minutes of cycle, Nerdy seemed to vote for you for having people engage you in discussion. Your vote is based on a disagreement with Fifth over Mat, and Xino is an unexplained vote with no context. These players don't seem to be paranoid, just throwing votes down on active players, without giving any attention to why they're voting. I think I'd opt to vote Nerdy based on that post if not for being their second game and this being cycle 1.

Detailed Tally Devo (0): Kas{1} Aman (0): Hael{1} Kas (4): Danex [Gastro]{1}, Nerdy [Nerdy]{1}, Kas{3}, Xino [Forgotten]{1} Hael (0): TUN [Unknown]{1} Danex [Gastro] (4): Kas{2}, Stick{1}, Aman{1}, JNV{1}, Bookwrym [Perpetual]{1}, Silvereye [Wind]{1}, Hael{2} Mat [Tall] (1): TUN [Unknown]{2}, Fifth{1}, Aman{2} Wizard [Myopic] (1): Aman{3} Stick (1): Matt [Tall]{1} Fifth (1): Devotary{1} Vote Tally Kas (4): Danex [Gastro]{1}, Nerdy [Nerdy]{1}, Kas{3}, Xino [Forgotten]{1} Danex [Gastro] (4): JNV{1}, Bookwrym [Perpetual]{1}, Silvereye [Wind]{1}, Hael{2} Matt [Tall] (1): Fifth{1} Wizard [Myopic] (1): Aman{3} Stick (1): Matt [Tall]{1} Fifth (1): Devotary{1}

Turns out you've played 8 more games than I have. I was about to post a vote tally based on an earlier Stick one, but then it doesn't line up with Devotary's at all, so gonna go back and do my own properly to confirm. My reads/vibes of players so far are as follows: Player Vibes Village - Strong: Hael - Moderate: - Slight: Stick, JNV Neutral - Goodish: Fifth, Aman - Meh: Silvereye (Wind), Mat (Tall), Bookwyrm (Perpetual), Xino (Forgotten) - Badish: Devo, Nerdy, Kas, Wiz (Myopic), TUN (Unknown), Dannex (Gastro) Elim - Slight: - Moderate: - Strong: Absent - Infinite, Exotic Although I'm disinclined to vote Devo or Kas this turn. And I N1'd TUN last game, so feel like they deserve a pass. Think I'm going to put my vote on Dannex.

I'm hurt Had been going to weigh in and say if TUN was a newish player I'd be tending to view them village, but sounds like they're not then. I'll try review their past games and reevaluate once I'm at a PC. I don't think you were intending to refer to me here - think it was Devo responding to Stick? I was going to say "look at my recent games, this is my new normal", but I think I only did so last game, and I was evil... >> I swear I'm not though. More seriously, I've been finding myself lacking motivation to actually keep up with SE games, and regardless of alignment struggling to make more than a couple short posts, particularly if no one's asking me any questions. The time accountability is/was an attempt to try and ensure I post a bit more. I'll unpoke Aman for the moment. Not sure how I feel about the amount of discussion of Merlin's when I don't really feel it's all that relevant to the discussion. At least to me, the standout issue with Merlin is their susceptibility to analysis based on their curse of knowledge. The Winzik doesn't have that curse of knowledge. The issue they have is a hole in their security, where they, and all the other members of the inner circle have to be careful to not be ID'd by their use of the doc. About the extent of the value of the discussion to me is that using it talking about Martin's claim based on past examples of Merlin game is a useful connection to read NAI on Mat's claim.

Who, me? Well, sure. But you've got to be careful, as just because something is already known to the eliminators, doesn't mean that they can't learn things from who/how/where that information is disclosed to the larger village. Always a good idea to think through any information you disclose, as to what information might be gleaned by others. I'm quite wary of the attempts to Spartacus for example, as those rarely work as intended and tend to be quite the treasure trove of information. Always. Don't have time/energy to RP right now, but figure it may be easier to RP a game knowing the turns. So I played the next match in the spoiler. Anyway, been a long day, and need to get some sleep, so I should be around in about 8 hours, so will actually think about the initial susses people have been throwing around then.

Aman Edit: @Ookla the Omniscient, I think you missed that my RP character is Hal Vanicus Also, had time during intermission to post, but I'll be next available in another 2 hours.

Yeah, going to be out from now for the next...8 hours or something. I'm wondering if it's easier to preroll the game and then have some fun RPing the actual interactions instead?

Hal shrugged. "This will leave them owing me, which made it an opportunity not worth missing." He pulled once again from the deck. "Damn it." He had pulled a nine, bringing his total to 24, which he couldn't fix with any one card from his hand. Turning to Doncie, he sighed. "I've gone bust. So the game is yours if you can land a 20."

One of the important considerations of including Break Tanks as an additional format alongside the QF, MR, and LG formats, as far as I'm aware, was to specifically avoid any impact on the activity level of players in those standard format games. For that reason they are kept intentionally short, to prevent the limited numbers of players available from being taken away from signing up to the standard cycle of games, or to help remove any additional reason for what players we have going inactive in those games. The point of the break tanks, to my understanding, isn't that they're short. Nor is it about the ability to stop midway. The core idea is the testing ideas that are nearly impossible to predict how players will react to them, without letting players give it a shot first and seeing what breaks. To address your game idea proposal specifically, I've two thoughts: I've had bad experiences with GMs that have varied the end of cycle time. While due to Life happening to the GMs, which I understand, one game this was a large part of a serious of circumstances that changed a game that my team could not lose into a major loss, while a few other instances did interfere somewhat with the ability to hammer as elims, or properly respond to important questions in thread. A regular cycle close time, while it can be a really painful time depending on the time and timezones, it can be relied upon and planned around. While I guess the point of you testing this would be to gauge player responses to changing cycle ends, I can already tell you that I'm a player that wouldn't be keen on the idea. I'm not keen on the possibility of cycles being less than 24 hours. The SE community covers, or at least use to, timezones from all across the world. The nature of this is that it limits the ability for everyone to be able to communicate with each other in real time. By making cycles a minimum of 24 hours long, you give all players, no matter their time zone, an equal amount of time to contribute to a cycle, without international players having to adjust their sleep cycle to even have a chance at posting in a given cycle. That fact is not something I'd want to lightly change, as to do so reduces the accessibility of the games to those international players. Now, Break Tanks obviously break this rule. And for this reason, I've not been able to engage with any of the break tanks, as there's only a 3 hour window I can reliably be active in, i.e. once ever second cycle of a BT. However, it's ultimately not a big deal because of the nature of the break tanks not being proper games. You might then say that seeing as BT already break the normal timing rules, it's the perfect spot to test games that mess with the timing of cycles. But the whole point of the BT is that you're testing something which is to be eventually played as a QF, MR, or LG, and I'd argue that something with the potential for less than 24 hour cycles shouldn't ever be run in the first place. So I guess then I've two questions: Is there a version of your concept that maintains 24 hour cycles as the minimum? How exactly are you intending to have the cycles reduced. Is the subsequent cycle posted immediately after the close of the previous, with the new cycle time determining the close of the new cycle? Does each cycle have a fixed start time, and the reduction in cycle length then changes the actual end of cycle time each cycle? Or in reverse, does each cycle have a fixed end time, and so the reductions in cycle length cause the cycle to start later and later? Finally, to address your last comment about unplayable/unfun MR/LG, Break Tanks aren't the only tool to address that, nor are they even intended to be the primary tool to address that. That's the purpose of the review committee, where at least two experienced players should have weighed in on the game before it's run. It's also part of the role of the Impartial Moderator, who might be able to comment on the specifics of your role distribution at the start of the game should that be likely to significantly impact the balance and fun of the game.

In the games, the buttons were "Stand" or "End Turn". Which makes sense for a video game button, but is not as useful for natural language sentences.