SpartanBrigade

That Wax one is perfect lol I think I'd probably take Jenga against Yumi since she'd be kinder when she beats me as opposed to Hoid

Welcome to the Shard! If you had to choose a Cosmere planet to live on and one to vacation on which would you pick?

Ahh you're right I just reread. I was misremembering it was totally a murder and not an accident. Yeah I could see one of his Truths relating to the two of them.

Frost does have a non-intervention policy though. It could be him anyway but how would he have gotten there?

Yeah agreed. I’m really looking forward to seeing the Vessels pre Ascension in Dragonsteel. That’s the part I’m looking forward to the most, specifically the Rayse-Kor-Tanavast situation and Ati just being the best.

I know it works both ways with the Shard having more of an effect on the holder than the holder has on them. I was mostly working off Ati channeling Ruin toward entropy and doing his best to tone down its desire for destruction. Also as a side note “But it was not evil. None of the sixteen technically are, though you may have read that Hoid has specific beef with Rayse. Whether you think of Odium as evil depends upon how much you agree with Hoid's particular view.” I always found this a little funny because I get where he’s coming from but at the same time Ruin’s a megalomaniacal mustache twirling villain who whispers lies of despair and manipulation and Odium is… Odium. Plus he showed up after Tanavast was rejected by Honor just to be an asshole. Like he had no reason to do that he just wanted to lol

We know from a WoB at least one Truth for Elhokar would have been to admit he was a poor king. As for the others I’d have to think about it. Another might be recognizing when to accept influence from others like Dalinar and when to take a stand and act like a king. I don’t think it would have included Ana and Da since he never murdered them, just granted a boon to a friend and they died on accident. I don’t even think he knew or remembered them.

Hi everyone! I’m not sure if there’s already a thread for this but I couldn’t find one. This is just a place for fellow Epic fans to yap about it and share memes and such

I could send it if you’d like. There is a definite order his books come timeline wise although you don’t need it to enjoy reading the Cosmere. If you’d like I can send it though (I only just saw after posting this that you found the answer before me lol) That is true I’m looking forward to seeing what kind of insane things the Rosharans build in the future I know it’s supposed to be completely different from the more Earthlike things Scadrial’s gonna build. It IS theoretically possible to be in multiple Orders and have multiple Nahel bonds at the same time too

It’s canon folks, Odium is officially an asshole We know a holder is able to pretty dramatically alter the Shard without getting kicked out, Tanavast just pushed too far too quickly. We’ve learned that Ruin was originally waaay more destructive but Ati was able influence it to be a reaper type figure, there to help the world wind down at the end of its time rather than just a force of nature lusting for complete destruction. As for the bit about the powers and Taravangian it’s a (I think?) fairly popular theory that in the end Pdkum is going to end up abandoning Taravangian and going to Ba-Ado-Mishram instead. She would be a much better vessel as she’s a genuinely good person. Spirit. Spren. Thing. We’ve already learned that the powers want her too. There’s another theory that I think is a bit less popular but I could still see happening; the other half of Retribution (Honor) breaks off and is taken up by Adolin Kholin leaving our two new gods as Adolin and BAM. I could see it happening on a personal level as Adolin’s arc seems to be accepting both his differences and his similarities to Dalinar. Additionally he is one of the most honorable characters in the series and in WaT he struggled with feeling like he’s just a regular useless guy in a world of gods and Radiants. I could see this being a Sazed situation where the unassuming guy ends up taking the powers of god. For Mistborn Sazed was friends with Kelsier and Vin, the larger than life revolutionary and the woman we thought would be the Hero of Ages but in the end it was humble, loyal, unassuming Sazed who became the god. I could see a similar thing happening with Adolin and his dynamics with Kaladin, Dalinar, and the rest.

Oh wow thanks I always just figured Fjordel was lying through their pearly whites as an excuse for expansion It never occurred to me Jaddeth might be an actual thing. So this would mean Autonomy was probably the one who struck down Elantris to make her conquest of Sel easier?

For Harmony probably both the best option and most likely. What Sazed is lacking right now IS Autonomy since he's being yanked between the two other Shard's Intents. I don't know if he would take up the Shard though or if he even could considering there are so many avatars I'm not really sure how that would work. If you kill Bavadin does she drop Autonomy or would you have to take out all of her avatars too? Would killing her make her avatars lose their power or would it make them stronger or weaker or the same?

Seeing everyone's points here's sold me, I don't think Retribution will remain stable either anymore

Wait Jaddeth? Like the Selish deity Jaddeth? That was her doing? Also I really like that BAM theory. Do you think her plan is to have BAM take up Odium instead? Yeah fair those are all good points

I got the idea that the two of them plan on kinda ignoring each other until they’re the last two at which point they’d attack one another, especially since Autonomy ignored the formation of Retribution to go attack Scadrial. It seems like for the time being they’re not interested in fighting, Retribution because he just wants to hide right now and Autonomy just doesn’t seem to care and is focused on Harmony instead. I’m not 100% sure though what are your thoughts?

Yeah agreed, I'm just a fan of speculation lol. Assuming Treamayne and I make a detailed thread we'll be sure to include you. Also I just saw this whole time we were focussed on Harmony/Discord vs Retribution when you asked about a lot of other stuff too. For which Shards are best poised to stop Retribution there are a few options. I think our MvPs are going to be Harmony, Valor, and Cultivation just because they were the main three who were willing to move against Odium when it was just Rayse. I think now that he's Retribution that willingness to fight will only multiply. As for Shard combinations I'm using hypotheticals since these would never work in story but if I had to put together a Shard to fight Retribution I'd choose Conquest (Dominion + Ambition) although that might prove a bigger threat than Retribution.

Ah good to know thank you! What leads to to believe they're voidspren?

Yeah that's the main idea. Retribution is more stable since the Intents of Odium and Honor align while Preservation and Ruin are opposites. "Taravangian, Retribution, reveled in his new strength. He was more powerful than anything. Only one other came close, but those powers were misaligned, while Honor and Odium wanted nearly the same things." - WaT Chapter 145 You're spot on about there being two ways Harmony could combine, either as Harmony or Discord. So far Sazed has been able to make sure the Shards are balanced and work together. Once enough time passes they'll warp him to much to control and they will no longer work in harmony. Instead Ruin will most likely become more powerful (according to Kelsier) meaning the balance is broken and the Shards no longer work together.

Sure I'd be down for an in depth thread. I do see your point now too. For the second half of the HoA excerpt though "And yet, because he was of one mind on how to use them, he could keep them separate. They could touch without destroying each other, if he willed it. For these two powers had been used to create all things. If they fought, they destroyed. If they were used together they created." The reason he was able to use them together and create and master both Shards here seems to be because he 'was of one mind on how to use them'. He was still fresh to the power, the same reason Viservation was able to kill Ati. By the time Era 2 rolls around the Shards' Intent has warped him and he's of two minds on how to use them. That was my take on it anyway. It seems like it might be

So in WaT Moash gets an upgrade thanks to Odium. His sight is restored through crystalline spikes but what exactly happened? It seems to work the same as Scadrian Hemalurgy but it uses crystals and not metal. What is this? Is it the same but with a different material? Is this a Yolish Lightweaving situation where it's the same general mechanics but also different? What's going on here?

That's sort of cherry picking though, especially with the WaT quote. This is the full excerpt "Part of the power within him was … concerned. Had he acted with honor toward Gavinor? I did everything I promised him, Taravangian thought. I brought him to get revenge, to claim his kingdom. I never said I wouldn’t interfere. All I did was perfectly in line with my oaths to Gavinor. It was true. The power acknowledged it. That should be that. It calmed while Taravangian pondered. He would have to let Azir keep its land, as they had won, wouldn’t he? Dalinar had broken the contract, but Honor … Honor wanted desperately to follow it—and Taravangian had to be careful lest the power rebel against him. As he determined to do so, Honor swelled inside him, and more fully bonded into Retribution." There's also this from WaT Chapter 145 "Taravangian, Retribution, reveled in his new strength. He was more powerful than anything. Only one other came close, but those powers were misaligned, while Honor and Odium wanted nearly the same things. They would work together." Additionally in the quote you sent from The Hero Of Ages further proves the point. The powers were opposites. As he drew them in, they threatened to annihilate each other. And yet, because he was of one mind on how to use them, he could keep them separate. They could touch without destroying each other, if he willed it. For these two powers had been used to create all things. If they fought, they destroyed. If they were used together they created." The reason he's been able to manage them so far is because he was relatively new and hadn't held the powers for too long so they hadn't warped him yet. In Era 2 he is warping though and he can't act, he can't see, and he's bested by the scouting team. Scadrial would have been destroyed or captured by Autonomy if not for Wax. As of now Retribution is just objectively the more powerful Shard.

You can look up the article about Harmony on the Coppermind Wiki. It has a section called Discord with all the information we have right now complete with references.

I like that idea since I'm a Kelsier fanboy but it doesn't seem super likely imo. We've gotten confirmation in Era 2 and from WoBs that Sazed/Harmony is already starting to become Discord with no Kelsier needed. Plus with Kelsier's personality I don't think he'd be the type to take up a Shard. He seems like someone who plans from the background and doesn't want the attention or restrictions becoming a Shard would place on him similar to Hoid. WaT tells us that Retribution is the perfect fit while Harmony's powers were never meant to be combined. There's a reason every Shard immediately turned on Retribution when he ascended while they all ignored Harmony. Plus we already saw Harmony crippled when going up against Autonomy, and that wasn't even a war yet, he got bested by what's essentially the scouting team; a bunch of regular humans and a single avatar. It seems like Preservation's plan was to best Ruin and not anything beyond that.

Philosophical transformation. Throughout Era 2 he's already beginning the descent and we can see a sort of shadowy double when he appears which Kelsier confirms is a representation of Discord. Kell also states that Ruin was always more powerful than Preservation so presumably in Discord the Intent will skew towards Ruin. Take that last part with a grain of salt though since Kelsier has been wrong about many things before.

One thing to remember is this is the halfway point, the Empire Strikes Back and NOT the ending. We'll have our happy ending but not yet. It's sort of like if people said that The Well Of Ascension ruined Mistborn Era 1 or that Shadows Of Self ruined Era 2 and that both betrayed what it means to be a Cosmere fan. It's because these aren't the endings it's the halfway point.