MagicMaggot

Let's say someone like Autonomy saw no problem in directly challenging Sazed, but I would be very, very surprised, if she would be quite as brazen when facing Retribution. Or Odium, for that matter. Not because they have a larger energy storage, but because they are more likely to do damage. "Raw power" doesn't mean all that much, if it is like Leras' power to sit around and slowly die, while not changing anything, ever. The Preservation example shows that it isn't even necessarily about having conflicting powers, he just held a power whose intent was unsuited to conflict - while in theory having the capacity to match Ati, as Vin proved. I do actually think Retribution will in some ways be more limited than Odium was. We haven't seen much from it, yet, but one of the few things we did see it do was to limit itself to better conform to the spirit of a technically voided border agreement. But Retribution is certainly still an intent that lends itself to direct conflict, and that's what other shards should be more nervous about.

You're probably right, I didn't think that through, that was just my first association. And the evaporation never struck me as consistent with the amount of investiture being burned here, especially since it just went away without any effect, as I recall? Whatever, probably inattentive reading on my part. Concerning the light-cancellation reaction though: Looking into the text, the severity of the reaction does seem to be dependent on factors like "pressure" - though I honestly don't really get what pressure's magical equivalent is supposed to be in this case, but well, I guess that's higher fabrial mechanics... "I thought … I thought the reaction would be calm, like hot and cold water mixing… .” “Hot and cold water don’t immediately annihilate one another when they meet,” Navani said. “Besides, heat under pressure—­like Light in a gemstone—­is another matter.” “Yes,” Raboniel said, blinking several times, seeming dazed. “If you use the lightning of a stormform to ignite something under pressure, it always explodes. Perhaps if Voidlight and anti-­Voidlight meet in open air, you’d get no more than a pop. When spren, radiants and fused were killed with anti-light-reactions we mostly just got some very localized heat, not greater explosions, while Navani's scholar's did manage to explode a room with one voidlight gem. That's why my mind didn't instantly go to explosions with that, and thought that it might be a viable part of Nightblood's mechanism. Well.. that, and that Vasher brought the first mentioned anti-light, but I guess as an ancient scholar that shouldn't be surprising either was.

My instinct would be to look at anti-light here, and thus expect most of the investirure to actually be cancelled out/destroyed. Especially with WaT giving us confirmation that Vasher was aware of, and working with, anti-light. No idea how that would be implemented in Nightblood, and why that would lead to his food coma, but that's a different question.

Thinking of a potential redemption for Moash, I can't help but think about the new information we got about Skybreakers. The Words of Radience epigraphs describe the Skybreakers as an order "determined to care for the unwanted, the unguarded", and say that "The Skybreakers, who have always quietly cared for those the law forgets, do still exist, as previously accounted; they merely exist in multiple forms.". While that doesn't really seem to fit with Nale's cuttent order, we'll hopefully see more of that philosophy with Skybreaker dissenters in the future. And well... thinking about a best possible version of Moash, that's the direction where I would look. Moash was never about protecting everyone, but all about bringing justice in the name of the oppressed. Getting guidance in doing that while staying true to moral principles, instead of just acting on passion, might be the way to go there. I can't see Kaladin doing that, though, and think Seth or Nale himself would be more reasonable fits for Moash. There could still be interesting meetings with Kaladin, but I just can't see him reaching out here. Indeed, Retribution himself might actually start him on that path, by incorporating and communicating concepts of Honor next to his speech about passion. Which might easily be where it stops, though. Being a champion of retribution might just be the better fit for MoashAnd we don't really want to make him Ironeyes 2.0, do we?

To be honest, I don't really understand how he is supposed to be a fit for Honor at all. Special restrictions on keeping your word, even compared to other shards, are kind of a big restriction on Utilitarianism's "by any means necessary". He certainly wasn't a man of his word in his mortal life, with basically everything about him being a manipulative front, with a secret society bend on keeping it up, and no shyness about giving blatant lies and false promises to the people he was duping to reach his goals. If good old Vargo was good enough for Honor in that moment, is there even anyone who wouldn't have been? So yeah, I'd expect him to have problems remaining himself, while catering to a power that doesn't really fit his personality profile. And yes, considering that every time he negociates he risks binding himself to promises that might become a burden when circumstances for the utilitarian calculation change, I'd guess that holding that power would make him more likely to brute force problems, now he is probably the most powerful god around. In the long-term, with Honor's budding sentience on the one side, and Mishram, as a super sexy draw for his Odium portions on the other side, he likely won't be having a fun time. And that's discounting the fact that he has to manage with the attention of the other shards that will be overwhelmingly current and hostile. But well... it's Stormlight Archive. Having a hard time is basically synonymous with getting a character arc. And he did save Karbranth, in violation of his principles, and did not manage to prove his philosophy to/through Dalinar, which really rattled him. So there is stuff to work with... And 5 books left to go, where things certainly won't be stagnant, either.

Just a sidenote on abandoning Adolin: Going into the cognitive realm is supposed to be considerably easier than leaving it. If there was a reason why his pregnant wife would have to stay there for an extended period of time, I don't think it would be outside of the realm of possibility that he would join her there, instead of the other way around. Not a possibility without its own hurdles, sure, but well... I'd say he might be motivated to find a way around those. Especially since he'll probably be well-informed about her situation through interrealmatic seon video-chat.

Well, I'm going by Adolin's and Maya's own perception here. While that isn't conclusive, of course, I'd suggest that it's more than enough to speculate that it could have had an effect. Seth and Nightblood were at the awakened Urithiru. Not for long, but neither was Maya.

There is also the awakened sibling, which is said to have quite the effect on spren and their bonds. Adolin was basically just passing through Urithiru between his shadesmar trip and Azir, but he remarks how much more lively and healthy Maya got, and how much their bond has been strengthened. While Nightblood isn't the same, of course, it was there for a comparable amount of time, and it could have made a difference.

First off to reiterate: I am not disputing that this will be a good thing for Jasnah's character development in the long run. But I am trying to criticizs the way it was presented, because it did not work for me. And like usual, the judgement preceeded my justifying arguments. My contention on this part is more along the lines of the Worf effect criticism, and I guess I misjudged where you were going here, so sorry for the confusion. I think showing the limits of faked confidence is totally fine, but not if we are losing the impression that she is actually smart at the same time. You are right, she is still "extremely smart and capable" as a scholar, going by the way the people seem to think to her and her works. Just like Worf is among the most dangerous warriors around in StarTrek, and everyone says so, you can see his fighting contest trophies, and sometimes he beats up holograms. But the Worf effect comes in, when he is percieved to fail whenever he gets a strong opponent. We still know that he is supposed to be strong, and getting thrown around by anyone who gets a superpower doesn't change that, but we don't feel it, because our brain judges by what it sees. And I do think some of that is happening for Jasnah here. Yeah, we know the Azish loved her argumentative poetry skills, but we haven't seen them. Yes, she is an expert on tons of historical, philosophical, and other scholarly topics, but we haven't read that. But we are seeing the debate. And if one finds her performance here underwhelming, and we haven't seen anything really impressive by her before, then that's what sticks in judging her. I know that she is still supposed to be super smart... but I don't feel it. Now I'll certainly agree that with all the things Sanderson probably wanted to achieve here, giving us a convincing debate between a celebrated genius and a god, while also laying Jasnahs flaws bare, while also showing us Todium's character and motives, while also convincing the non-scholarly Fen, while also explaining Todium's utilitarianism to his readers, and whatever else we brought up here in this thread is a storming tall order. And no, with all that in mind I wouldn't say he did badly at all. But I am commenting on the resulting text, not the way he got there, and that still left me decidedly unimpressed. Which is why I am wondering, if it was a good idea to try to fit all of that into these 2 chapters, or if it could have worked better, if there were more seperate events for the seperate goals. And that doesn't seem like a lack of empathy to me, but like a lack of foresight. Which I don't think should should have been Jasnah's problem here. Looking at Todium's capabilities and Thaylenah's situation as a trading city, I can't get my mind around the idea how a smart person could ever have thought Fen's situation simple. Purely cognitive empathy is more than enough to understand Thaylenah's wants and needs, and to see that Todium wasn't in a bad position to affect or address them, Jasnah didn't need to feel what Fen is feeling to figure that out. And yes, these arguments weren't what decided the debate, because it took the undermining of Jasnah to get there. But as far as I'm concerned that's another reason the debate failed to land for me, because I can't for the life of me figure out why Jasnah being Jasnah would be more persuasive than economic ruin, possible violent conquest and the dependency on Dalinar's very unsure victory. Maybe I am the one lacking empathy here, but I just don't get it. And while I can accept Fen's particular kind of emotionality being somehing I don't get, I have a harder time accepting that the supposedly overly rationalistic Jasnah would find it obvious and unchangable. I'm not really disagreeing with this, by the way. But I'm not enjoying the structure of a character arc, I am enjoying a story, and looking beyond storyline/plot/writing style is looking beyond much of the point of the reading experience for me. It also isn't independent from each other, and an imperfect dialogue can imply things about a character that weren't intended, or prejudice a reader in unhelpful ways. And I do think there is a hint of that here. Now, turn it down a bit again, we are talking about 2-3 chapters and they were by no means catastrophic. And no, I don't really think this will do any long-term damage to the character or the book series. When I say I found the debate unimpressive, I don't mean to say more than that. I wasn't impressed, and I feel justified in that feeling. But I wouldn't have brought it up, if it wasn't the topic of discussion anyways.

What do we even mean by "leaving the system"? I'm still trying to understand how that works, so tell me where I'm going wrong, but... As I understand it, shards are mostly in the spiritual realm, which doesn't really do things like distance, since it's all about connection. The limitations of the shard are mostly in its enormous, but still limited, attention (and its intent), and if you start investing the cognitive or the physical realm, you're binding your attention to something that is actually localized. The more invested you are, the harder it is to get your godly mind off it, which limits how much you can spare for all the fun stuff that isn't where your invested powers are. Though I guess you can get around that a bit through avatars, or something, the Autonomy stuff is strange... So, since we aren't talking about flying away as some godly space cloud, I guess we'd have to interpret the contract that bound them to Roshar as restricting where they are allowed to focus their godly attention, not where they are allowed to "go". Which means an unbound Retribution would now be free to try to put his power to use in other worlds. But wherever and whenever he actually does something, other shards could use that connection to "find" him... in the spiritual realm, I guess? And that would be easier, if they knew where he was acting in the physical or cognitive realm, which is why it is a good idea for Retribution to stop acting in Roshar, if he doesn't want to invite visitors in the spiritual realm. So leaving would be... withdrawing his attention from Roshar, and focussing it somewhere where the other shards aren't looking for the connection to him, if not going fully dark? Essentially ignoring all of his existing connections on Roshar? Yeah, if that is it that sounds pretty hard. And kind of open-ended. The idea is that with some time he can master his powers enough to actually attack from that stealth, or to become proficient enough to survive the attention of other shards, when he decides to act again? This god-level stuff is a bit confusing.

I don't really think that quote hits my point. Todium is bound to the letter of the contract, but is free to break it in spirit as much as he wants to, as the attempted conquest of the realms through their capitals shows. And his philosophy basically requires him to do it, as soon as he deems it necessary. The contract doesn't even have to have real holes for that, because, as Dalinar notices, Todium can easily create conditions that will lead your own side to break it. It's not good old king T anymore, it's a god with full control over his lands and people, and an ability to see and plan the future that a mortal can't ever rival. So yeah, I'd call any confidence in creating a contract that Todium can't subvert as he likes misplaced. Even if we discount Dalinar's point, because they just didn't think of it at the time, I'd still be with Yanagawn: Note that I am not saying that Fen shouldn't have signed in the end, because, as I said above, that argument can cut both ways, and undermines the whole contest of champions as a solution, and Fen doesn't really have clearly better long-term options, no matter if Todium is an honest actor. But I am saying that it should have been part of the discussion. If there had to be a discussion at all.

I personally would hate a solution through flashbacks much more than a frozen problem, to be honest. But I don't think it really has to be one or the other. When I say that I don't expect the problem to be solved in the gap, I mean that I think that investiture scarcity will probably remain a problem. I certainly wouldn't expect there to be no workarounds that were developed within the 10-year gap. I'd expect radiant action to be viable in some limited fashion, but with energy too valuable to waste, since it won't just fall from the sky anymore. But I'd also expect the basically unlimited investiture supply they had before the Night of Sorrows to return sooner or later, in a dramatic fashion, where we can see it happening.

The flipside of that trope is that the interesting stuff is supposed to happen on screen, though. I wouldn't expect the solution to wait for Navani, if there was enough expected Roshar screentime before her return. But we are about to skip a decade, aren't we?

Possible... but does that make it better or worse? She has been a character for ca. 3,5 books before this debate, and still we mostly knew her through her reputation. If we're throwing the validity of that out in her deconstruction, along with her moral certainty, aren't we close to throwing out the kid with the bathwater here? I didn't like Jasnah much before, but I was interested to see how that would change, once I got to know her better. Leaving the debate with not much more than "I thought I knew something about her, but I guess I didn't" isn't particularly satsifying to me. Just like seeing her broken down in an argument that felt wholly outside of my (I'd argue not unreasonable) expectations for the character isn't. I skimmed the debate again, and I'm not buying it. So... Todium told Jasnah that he would convince Fen to join his ("already victorious") empire, and that he'll be curious to see what counterarguments she can come up with. He even said that he was perfectly able to "shove" (like Odium), though he would try to lead first. And after a sleepless night mulling about the terms of the discussion, Jasnah interpreted that as "we'll have a formal and impersonal discussion about historical oppression within the singer empire", or something like that? She didn't think the threatening military or economic situation (and the ways to get better deals to avoid them) would come up, and was blindsided by it? Even though she herself acknowledges that she should have been prepared for the economic attack and wasn't? Yeah, no, I'm not buying that, if she isn't supposed to be a total idiot, as soon as she ventures slightly outside of her specific realm of expertise. Even if she is actually supposed to be overhyped, that's too far for me. And the personal attacks shouldn't have come unexpectedly either, considering that she started the ad hominems. T's personal untrustworthiness, in contrast to the upstanding people of the coalition that had proven so reliable to Fen, was her main argument on the issue itself, before Odium turned it on her. She played on T's dirty history and reputation, and made it about characters. Which wasn't a bad move in itself. Then he responded in kind, which shouldn't have surprised her. It certainly wasn't a foul by the rules she herself played by. To paraphrase: "We would never do those evil things that Todium would" - "But Jasnah actually would, I have the sources" "We care about you and your people" - "And you would still sacrifice it, if you deemed it necessary" "I wouldn't lie to you!" - "I just proved that you would." He isn't making it personal, he is engaging her personal arguments. Todium didn't change any rules here. He didn't even really mislead her, as it was written. She just failed. And she did so while going into it thinking that there really wasn't a way for her to lose, because Fen would never waver, repeatedly tallying points she made and thinking she was doing rather well within the discussion. I'd actually prefer to think that the discussion wasn't written as convincingly as it could have, over thinking that Jasnah was supposed to be so blind as to run into a wall repeatedly without seeing it coming. I agree. And I don't think the execution was well done. It won't harm the story going forward, because the goals it reached and wanted to reach were suitable to set up her coming arc. But it was a highly unsatsfying read for me. I don't think that's in the text, is it? The wriggle room wasn't much of a topic at all, since the discussion basically ends when the negociations begin, or did I overlook something? I mean, Fen might have had misplaced confidence in her abilities as a negociator, sure, but I'd think that's something you should show the readers, if it is meant to be part of understanding the scene. For Dalinar it certainly wasn't beside the point, since the realisation of how useless any contract with Odium would be in the long run, even if he won, was a deciding factor in him flipping the board in the end. Which, cuts both ways, of course, but that's all the more reason to explore it.

When the guy is supposed to stick around for another 5+ books as a central character, it would have been really odd planning to have him throw out all ties to his humanity while he is still in the infancy of his godhood. If he had really irrevocably destroyed Kharbranth, there wouldn't even be the appearance of any feasible way but down for him, which sounds less interesting than what we have now. Not sure I like the "city in the spiritual realm " precedent much, though. But I guess we'll see how that plays out when we actually explore life there.

Which actually goes even more against the man Taravangian than the power. The power just doesn't care about trustworthiness, Taravangian on the other hand lived and publicly defended his idea of the leader/god being neccessarily immoral. He snuck his way into the coalition, lying to everybody, sabotaged them, got a second chance, and betrayed them again. And always with a biiiiig "I would do it all again" afterwards. Why was the kicked puppy Honor ok with that guy again? Whatever, the only thing that makes him in any way trustworthy are the rules of divinity enforcing direct promises, but you can be certain that that guy will use every and any wiggleroom you give him against you, when he sees any profit in it. Retribution might be tighter bound, but that wasn't on anyone's radar here. At best the guy can try to sell himself as a principled utilitarian, but why the heck would that convince Fen? Why was so much of the debate about entry-level problems with Utilitarianism that our supposedly genius Jasnah had problems with, when the person that they were trying to convince obviously has no use for it? Whyever would anyone assume that "Jasnah would kill you, if she thought it necessary. She is right in that, and so would I. So give me power over you instead of her" would be a good pitch? At most it is another threat. I am perfectly fine with the result, but it was just frustrating to see the arguments that it was based on - and the arguments that they failed to raise. I am fully behind the idea of getting Jasnah to question her seemingly very basic utilitarianism to move her character along, and Taravangian arguing from a utilitarian standpoint (with better information about the future and the cosmere) towards ends she finds unacceptable, but can't counter within her utilitarian framework, isn't a bad way to do it. But that shouldn't have been the debate to convice Fen.

Taravangian certainly hasn't decided to change at this point, true. But I wouldn't be so certain about him not being in the process of changing, with the hypocracy being a possible sign of that process. First. I just find it generally hard to believe that a character that will likely stick with us for another 5000+ pages or so as the main antagonist isn't going to change. So looking for the seeds of that development in his hypocrisies doesn't sound like a bad place to start for me. Note that that change can still lead him to double down, and go further into the wrong direction (for example, he could still destroy his Kharbranth), but it doesn't have to, either. More specifically, his own WaT story was about proving the philosophy that justifies his plans of conquest right to his frenemies. It was important to him that Jasnah made the arguments that furthered his own plans, and it was important to him that Dalinar either sacrificed the beloved innocent or proved himself unable to lead effectively. If people like these had to accept his reasoning in practice, if not in word, it would have been proven to be valid. Which is important, because his own hypocrisy shows that in practice he himself doesn't fully believe it, and wants (and maybe needs) the validation to stay commited. Being wary of being dominated by his shard(s) like Rayse was supposedly, his reasoning must be sound. And anything that undermines it, like Dalinar's final gambit, is something that could be part of what makes him rexamine his thinking. We're not at the end ot that story, just at the halfway point. Maybe in the end this is just a personal weakness that will be exploited to beat him, and he'll just stay what he is now. But maybe not.

Should we then apply the "Sometimes a hypocrite is nothing more than a man in the process of changing" to him, or are we inverting that in some way?

I very much doubt that the investiture problem will be solved offscreen before book 6. Solving these problems seems like a Navani thing to me, and with the magic system of Roshar essentially being redefined, it would be strange to just skip an exploration of the complications to go basically back to where we started, just with a different shade of light. As to the how... Maybe they'll successfully split Towerlight and use the Stormlight part. Maybe Retribution will get his Warlight into circulation enough to make it viable for the good guys, either directly or split. Maybe Navani will find a method to make Towerlight last outside the tower, as she hinted at at the start of WaT. Maybe Lifelight and/or Voidlight from the Nightwatcher/Mishram will play a role. Maybe more spren being "enlightened" by Sja will make a difference. Maybe investiture from off-world will play a larger role, considering the heightened interest in Retribution's world we can assume now. Maybe a combination of methods. But certainly we'll see some sciencing around that topic. It might be nice to see the accessible power level drop for a while in book 6, before it escalates again. Edit: Also, I'm pretty sure that the investiture-dependent creatures will be fine. They mostly existed before the arrival of the shards anyways, didn't they?

Why would Retribution try to prevent it? (Enforced) Peace is for when he controls the cosmere, until then everything about him is still very much pro war. He still needs a warrior elite he can siphon off to send beyond Roshar. Border skirmishes or coups, even minor wars, are very much within his interests, as long as the casualties are within acceptable limits.

Her perpendicularity vanished with her, though. I wouldn't bet on her being around right now.

Cultivation was heavily invested in Roshar, though, and cutting all ties and rushing off does seem like it could have a high cost for her. Preservation made it sound like a pretty extreme measure in Secret History: “We… grow attached easily, and it takes one who is particularly dedicated to leave.”. I guess we'll have to wait and see on that, but that's why I don't think we have all the information required to judge her damages here. It also makes a big difference if this is actually part of a long-term strategy, with her intending to return someday, or if this was an emergency exit just to survive. If she abandoned her ressources and creatures here without a plan that might even clash with her power's Intent. And I get that the reactions to Taravangian were all from his perspective, and she could have been fooling him (and us) all along, but taken on face value it did seem like everything she was working for fell down around her. Taravangian was ostensibly meant to be an improvement to Rayse, and he wasn't. Dalinar was ostensibly groomed to take up Honor, and he threw that away. And even if her grasp of the future is better than most shards', she isn't there to guide it in the foreseeable future. The time-dilation is certainly a boon, but if she hasn't prepared anything off-world, she won't really be in a position to make much use of it. It would really help, if we had more of an understanding of her personal goals. I'd say considering she didn't want conflict with Odium and didn't even necessarily want to stop the wars on Roshar, it's quite plausible that she genuinely wanted the bearer of Odium to just stop with his plans of conquest, like she told Taravangian. So if that was part of it, she failed. Freedom from Roshar might be a positive, but creating Retribution was hardly the easiest way to get it, considering that Dalinar had the power to free her and wasn't above being manipulated. And "not losing her spren" is certainly better than the alternative, but far from a win. Any plausible result except Retribution's emergence would have left her spren unharmed. Much of the harm she narrowly averted was only a possibility because of her meddling. So with what I can see in the short-term, she seems like a clear loser to me. There will hopefully be long-term plans that play out better, we'll likely get a better understanding what she actually wants to accomplish, and she still has some powerful cards on the board, but right now we can only speculate on that.

Well. we haven't really had much detail on Retribution's Intent. The closest we probably got was "Retribution would keep his promises. Oaths were important. And Retribution would destroy anyone who believed differently", which doesn't really sound as if it is directed at personal slights, yet. Honor itself seemed mostly interested in the upholding of rules, and I don't see any rulebreaking-implications in opposing Taravangian, and when he only held Odium, Taravangian, as opposed to Rayse, seemed not to have much of a problem with opposition to him, personally. So I don't really see why Taravangian as Retribution would have to be about that. If we wanted that kind of pettyness in our antagonist god, we wouldn't have had to get rid of Rayse in the first place.

Not that it was a big problem with the novel for me, but the debate didn't work for me personally, because it was supposed to be a debate between a super genius scholar and a god of enormous intellectual potential, and none gave arguments that impressed me in the slightest. I basically agree with everything said by the op, but that doesn't make it feel any better to me. Jasnah has been build up as the greatest mind of her generation, mostly because other people said so. She didn't really have to prove it to the readers, because it was just implied, and that worked well enough. But that also means that this was basically the first time we got to judge her supposed genius for ourselves. And she didn't impress. Yes, Odium avoided much of the argument, leaving her arguing against personal attacks she wasn't prepared for, which is a fine explanation for her loss, but even the arguments she had prepared were still just basic. I also think it would have helped, if there had been more work put into the Fen-Jasnah-relationship. As it stands, I find it really, really hard to emphasize with her being shocked at Jasnah's behaviour. Every reader knew that preparing contigency plans like assassinations with cool detachment was fully in character for Jasnah, and we weren't really expecting her to hold foreign interests above her own. If Fen didn't think that of her, and even felt some personal betrayal of a supposed friendship at the revelation, maybe we should have seen more of that friendship before. I know the books are packed as they are, but if the emotional element was supposed to be the deciding factor here, I don't feel it was properly prepared. The economical arguments seemed much more convincing to me. "Even if the coalition wins, your way of life as a nation is dead, since I control the rest of the seas" is quite a major point that Jasnah couldn't counter intellectually, and would have had to counter with emotional appeals, or appeals to honor. So I'm fine with the resulting treaty with Odium. And I understand how it was good and necessary for Jasnah's character development to have her fail here. I also think having her fail because her argument would have relied on emotional appeals that she hadn't really allowed herself to see and build upon is a good idea. So I am fine with everything these scenes were supposed to accomplish, I think. But in execution... well, as I said, I wasn't impressed.

Two points on that... 1. The way Retribution will get his investiture into circulation isn't necessarily finalized yet. If he has to stand against most of the Cosmere, he can't really be stingy with his power, and once it's out there, there will be ways to use it. 2. He is the sole god of Roshar now. The most important enemies are outside, not inside. He might well seek a kind of peace within Roshar. And he might just get it, considering whatever the cosmere sends his way doesn't necessarily care about collateral damage on Roshar. So he might not really have to try to keep power out of radiant hands, since they might still be his ally against the foes that count. Considering that Roshar is now likely in the crosshairs of pretty much every shard, we'll certainly see a lot of resistance against Retribution that isn't natively Rosharan, but I don't think the oathed surgebinders running on Roshar's plentyful investiture will be a thing of the past.