Forged Herald

How is rejecting to be a Herald foolish? Rejecting an eternity of torture sounds pretty rational.

It's right after Szeth forswears his oaths.

I disagree. She doesn't have to argue loyalty, she has to refuse to argue and just trust. I know it's antithetical to who she is, that's why she lost.

Fen didn't want to negotiate with Odium at all, it was Jasnah who agreed to the debate. The mayor problem with Jasnah is that in arguing with Odium she undermined all the trust Fen had in her. Fen is the Queen of Theylenah and Jasnah has to trust her allies to make the right choice. Loyalty and trust go a longer way than logic and arguments. Even if he lays out how Jasnah had plans to murder Fen, she just has to say: "I now trust in you to make the right choice"

How is what you said any different from what I said. Jasnah thought she was going that her arguments were better than Odiums and that was enough to win the debate. She didn't think it was going to devolve into personal attacks and she didn't consider the fact that Odium knew a lot more things than her. If she knew as much as Odium, she could have won by saying: "You aren't trustworthy, you destroyed your own home (Karbranth)". But Jasnah thought she could outargue Odium and that was never an option. The other way for Jasnah to win the argument would have been to say: "I refuse to argue with you: I trust Queen Fen to amke the right decision." But she didn't do that either. She thought seh could argue her point better than an almost all-knowing beeing and that simply outarguing Odium would be enough to convince Fen.

I absolutely agree. But I don't mind Tress and Yumi (I actually enjoyed both very much) and I had no problem with their style (I thinj¡k it suited Yumi a lot). But the inconsistency drives me mad sometimes and completely breaks my immersion. As many have said, I believ it's the editors job and I don't know if it is because of the ack of time or becasue of "fear" of contraticitng Brandon, but the editors are not doing a good job in some aspects. The story is still really enjoyable and it isn't half as bad as some of the worst examples of good story, bad writing (like Dune), but I feel it could be way better with a little more editing and revision.

I disagree, they don't sound like bridgemen either and bridgemen weren't precisely Alethi posh.

I thought about Spanreeds. I agree that they allow instant communication, but only for a small part of the population and only peer to peer. Also people like Kaladin or Adolin can't read, so I don't think language would advance nearly as fast as it does today (and even if it did, it feels like too great of a change anyway).

I agree it isn't medieval, and it never felt medieval (excepting Syl at some points). But it definitively felt classic (maybe more Three Musketeers vibe than something really medieval), like you said somewhere in 18th-19th century. But the last book felt a lot like 21st century YA, and thats what felt really jarring to me. I get language evolves, but the change felt to brusque for just a year or two in a society without internet. I don't think it's justified, even when Brandon tries to explain it in-book.

I didn't write all the examples down, but there were some that stood out: Aladin calling May his "ex" is the one that jarred me the most. From courting to dating to "ex". Obviously the modern swearing (even if it's explained in book) interjections like a f*cking Herald using the word "basically" in the middle of a sentence. I don't care about modern language in characters like Wayne or Hoid, but when characters change the way they speak (like Szeth's unique way of talking) it's a great loss. Also it's not just modern language. I don't remember when, but there was a really obvious latin word that also stood out to me like a sore thumb.

Honor wants to respect it. It doesn't know why but Taravangian doesn't want to antagonize Honor

There are a few key things. The main problem with Jasnah, IMO, is she actually tried arguing with Odium. There is no winning in such a discussion, no amount of arguments is going to make you more convincing than a being that is mostly all-knowing. Jasnah thought she was going to outsmart T-Odium, but that wasn't going to happen and that hybris is what brought her down. She should have said: "I'm not arguing with you, I trust Queen Fen to make the right choice". I know Odium had a backup plan, and Thaylenah would probably have fallen anyway (and Queen Fen would be dead) but it would be the way for Jasnah to win (even if she looses Thaylenah). Also, I loved that Odium didn't argue Philosophy: he just attacked Jasnah personally. Arguments and logic don't really matter when trying to convince someone (the same happened with Kaladin and Nale but Kaladin saw how he couldn't argue logic with Nale). Lastly it is kind of ironic how surrendering to Odium allowed Thaylenah to get commerce but they literally lost sunlight. I don't know how good a deal it was, but it definitely wasn't worth it. She was willing to take that leap of faith. Jasnah, with all her arguing, undermined it. If Jasnah had simply said: "I trust Queen Fen to do the right thing" she would have taken the leap. Odium would probably still have won because of the Deepest ones, but trying to argue was what brought Jasnah down.

The combination of two Shards doesn't have a fixed outcome (Harmony Discord). Also I don't think that the combination of Honor and Cultivation is necessarily life (maybe Civilization?)

I don't remember all that well, because, as I said, I don't really like era 2 as much and haven't reread anything, but I remember distinctly Wayne eating Chouta and at least one Horneater. There where more implications about Rosharan refugees, but I don't remember the details.

My impression (with this book and most of Mistborn era 2) is that editors are not really doing their jobs. I don't know if it's lack of time (because of the insane output) or if they are more afraid to question Brandon, but there definitely are many scenes that would require a work around. Also style is starting to become a little too inconsistent between TWoK and WaT. As you said, everything about Shallan and Kaladin can be tossed out the window and a lot of parts could be made smoother (enhancing the book and, in the process, saving dozens of pages). Story is great, world is astonishing, but editing is subpar.

I don't know in TLM there are A LOT of Roshar fugitives. Could be due to the True Desolation and not because of Retribution and Night of Sorrows

“Autonomy is driven to divide off from the rest of us, go her own way. She pushes her followers to prove themselves, and she rewards those who are bold, who survive against the odds. She respects big plans and big accomplishments. ” —Harmony[1] I was reading the Coppermind on Autonomy to refresh what we know (I don't really like W&W, even though I like Wax and love Wayne) and this first quote stood out.

All 16 Shards are now accounted for. But it is an interesting theory, it would explain how it was able to defeat 2 shards on Sel.

I don't think he'll get a Vorin name. However, they chould do what they did wit ash (Shalash) and mirror the name the other way round. Maybe Lakal or Dakalad or Nidalakaladin. All sound a little clunky to me (maybe swapping some letters for "h" would sound better), but it is an option. Lastly, Ishar isn't symmetrical, so not all names became symmetrical with Vorinism. Edit: Now that I think it through, Ishi is symmetrical

I don't remember TLM all too well, but wasn't Autonomy making Spikes which couldn't be controlled by Harmony? I don't think that Harmony can control Moash just because he is spiked

6 years. I believe it is specified right after the last quote of KoWT.

Yeah, Cold War vibes. It feels kind of reasonable with the speed at which technology can advance with Investiture and a little of Sazed guidind plus whtever they can pry off of Worldhoppers.

People nitpick a lot in the reviews (for many a completely positive review feels incomplete). On the other hand there ARE many aspects of the book that could be improved. But even the most nitpicking people are giving it grades above 4.5/5 so we ALL share your feeling of getting lost (how else would be be done already). Don't hang yourself to much on the reviews and look at the theories (the fun part imo). And Welcome

How would forcing them to forswear their Oaths help? Nale looks for a legal excuse to execute them, forswearing their Oaths doesn't make them innocent of the obscure crime Nale finds to execute them.

My explanation is more Meta: Brandon was playing around with the timeline and it didn't quite fit so he used time dilation to get exactly to the point he wanted to. He may decide later if that means 80 or 120 years. Scadrial has pretty much passed the Industrial Revolution in Era 2 so 80 years time in earth would be somewhere between WW1 and WW2. But it could be more years and with unlocked metalminds advancements could be way faster than here on earth (specially if preparing war against Roshar).