Forged Herald

“Kharbranth,” Odium said. “The city itself, and any humans who have been born into it, along with their spouses. This is whom I will spare. Do you agree to this?” I agree, he saved the city out of love. He realizes that, just as Jasnah, he's another hypocrite. And I agree that the implication is that he would still be the ruler of Karbranth to do withit as he pleased. On the other hand, Taravangian has tried to follow the Contract to the letter instead of the spirit (as Rayze said he would). Can he decide when to follow the Intent of the OAth and when to follow the letter. Isn't that hypocresy just another chink in his Godhood? Also, if you remember any promise I may have missed, please add them.

Hi, Like several of you it's my impression that Honor's mind/Avatar/child will learn that even when being true to your Oaths you can still do great evil and that the most honorable thing isn't always keeping your Oaths (like Kaladin at the end of WoR). However, how can Retribution keep all his promises? Hasn't he already broken some? Of the top of my head: He has promised a small planet to Battah plus whatever Dai-Gonarthis' price is. The deals with Fen, Emul... Something for El? But also he has inherited all of Odiums previous Oaths (the ones with Honor are void, but what about the rest?). He promised to spare Karbranth all people born there and their spouses. He may have reconstructed Karbranth in the Spiritual Realm but, is this enough? What other promises/oaths am I missing? What could come back to bite him in the ass WHILE he is fighting other Shards? Am I missing some servants or promises?

I have absolutely no idea. Nonetheless it is interesting to think about. I believe there is a large number of combinations for any two given Shards (Odium + Honor can be Retribution, but it could also be Justice, Redemption, Conviction, Zeal, Motivation...). I think the main guide for the Intent of the combined Shards isn't the power of the Shards, but the person who ascends and how HE sees the powers would combine. Who wins if two Shards almost equally powerful clash isn't just the one that is marginally greater. If we think of it as a game of Towers it isn't the bigger force that wins, because there are 4 things that can change the outcome: 1. Terrain: There are a great number of CONTEXTS in which two shards are combined, and I don't think the outcome is the same depending on where and how the combine. 2. Leadership: The vessels have a greater say on the shards than one may assume at first, even if they get "corrupted" with the Shards Intent. 3. Chance: Shards aren't all-powerful or all-knowing so adirect confrontation may not lead to the same results each time (Odium trapped Dominion and Devotion 2 on one in Sel and was able to beat another Shard on a straight on Battle) 4. Human Spirit: How does the new Vessel see the combination of both Shards.

I don't see it that way. I believe he saw ways to conquer all (or most of Roshar) because of the wording of the Contract, and find a way to torment Dalinar (as he did with Jasnah) into renouncing his ideals. His plan was to expose Dalinar to a false Dichotomy in which both options were bad for Dalinar and good for his plans. He WANTED to have time to prepare for his invasion, the outcome of the Duel was never that important. Gavinor being offered as a Champion wasn't something he planned (imo), but something that fell in his lap and he could see as having great potential. During the actual duel, he didn't care if Dalinar killed Gavinor and won, because both outcomes were good for him. He just wanted to confront Dalinar with a seemingly impossible choice. Going back to Hoids story: How do you lose an unlosable contest? By not showing up. How do you win an unwinable contest? By refusing to participate. EDIT: Also Odium could never predict anything involving Renarin, Rlain or Mraize, so it'd be impossible for him to know Gavilor would be sucked into the Spiritual Realm.

Hello, not really new, but I forgot my old account (also I like my new name better). I've read WaT over the last 3 days and I'm still letting most of it sink in. I'll have to reread slowly and without skipping the first 25 chapters (which I had already listened to). I loved the Sunmakers Gambit Dalinar makes at the end, but I don't fully agree with T-Odiums assesment that Harmony cannot intervene because of it's conflicting natures. Retribution is a clear force of change and destruction so Preservation would like to stop it and it must be destroyed so it aligns with Ruin. Also it is something new, so I don't think Preservation wants to Preserve something that is newly created. But if you go deeper, it is clearly missaligned with Harmony. Retribution is almost an exact opposite of Harmony: if I keep retributing to past offences, I'll never live in harmony with you. It can be seen in the endless cycle of war between Odium and Honor. An endless escalation of retribution which impedes Singers and Humans living in harmony with each other. As long as Harmony is Harmony (and not Discord) it's Intent should allow him to fight Retribution. It's just some rambles after having powered thorugh such a big book in such a short time, but I'd like to hear your thoughts since I didn't find anything similar in the forum.