darkanimereal1

I agree that Urithiru is too high for the stormwall to reach. Again, Kaladin flying over the top of the stormwall, Szeth's comments, etc. If that's the case, then Urithiru would actually be the opposite of a stormlight sink--it wouldn't get any stormlight. That may explain the tariffs of people coming into/out of the city. If it's the KR capital, they need stormlight. I've always been on the "one storm" boat. People have mentioned this already, but it's possible the storm is effected by other weather patterns around the globe. Especially if Roshar's planet is tilted and has an elliptical orbit such as Earth does, ocean currents and general temperatures would change depending on the season and could also affect the day-to-day trajectory of the storm. I've been wondering, too, about how the Stormfather managed to send the rushed highstorm. This, I think, is highly related to the question of what happens to the highstorms during the Weeping. We know it's a two year rotation (one year highstorm in the middle, one year no highstorm in the middle) and that the entire thing is a 1,000 cycle (which is interesting--why does this matter? Perhaps it has something to do with Roshar's orbit around its star? Or, even better, this could have something to do with a sort of switch within Roshar's make up, similar to how the Earth's magnetic poles switch back and forth slowly over time). If we can get some fairly solid theories on the Rosharan yearly cycle, we could maybe tackle the original question of how he was able to rush it.

I mean, doesn't Zahel say something along the lines of "There's something I can get much easier here than from where I came from"? He could be talking about using Stormlight as some kind of substitute. It could also be related to the fact that, despite Szeth not having Breaths, he has Nightblood. Well, we know that Syl tells Kaladin later in TWoK that it's a good thing he didn't take Helaran's blade. Again, if I'm remembering correctly, doesn't she say that there's something wrong with it? At the time, she doesn't know what it is (she's still regaining her memory). Most likely it wasn't that he was a Radiant/Radiant in training, but instead that he had been given a "dead" shardblade. There's a possibility that he could have had an honorblade, since Syl also tells Kaladin not to mess with Jez's blade. However, if that were the case, that would mean that Amaram now has an honorblade, and I really haven't seen any evidence to suggest this. Besides, there are only three honorblades currently floating around (as far as Szeth knows as of ten years ago, but still).

First off: Moogle, thank you very much. That was an incredibly in depth answer. I obviously need to go back and re-read the end of the book (it got to the point where I was reading it as quickly as I could to try to finish it that night so that I could go back to actually taking care of my house the following day xD). But that is a huge help. Well, Szeth was definitely made Truthless after Taravangian's Day of Brilliance, since that is the day that Taravangian came up with the idea to make a Truthless with one of the Herald's blades (which he deduced were with the Shin) in order to achieve his ends. With that in mind, I wouldn't be surprised if Taravangian knew that Szeth, the Truthless he created, would be used to assassinate Gavilar. Considering the fact that Taravangian then arranges to obtain Szeth's oathstone and proceeds to use him for similar assassinations, it's not unlikely. Plus, Taravangian does not mention any major failures of the Diagram. If he didn't want Gavilar dead by his own creation's hand, I would have counted that worth mentioning.

Also (speaking of freaking out), I keep hearing this song on the radio. And every time I just keep thinking "this sounds remarkably like Shalladin..." The song is "All of Me" by John Legend (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=518WB1IcjPI) Of course, if you live in the US, you've probably been hit over the head with this song already (the radio stations have a tend to play songs to death). Even so, I thought it was interesting. And, since this is the Shalladin page, I'm not going to feel bad for sharing it "What would I do without your smart mouth? Drawing me in, and you kicking me out You've got my head spinning, no kidding, I can't pin you down What's going on in that beautiful mind?" This has to do with Shallan's quips and their (wonderful) arguments. (Plus the fact that Shallan is always bringing Kaladin down to size.) "You're crazy and I'm out of my mind" Uh, Shallan anyone?: "It helps if you're crazy." "'Cause all of me Loves all of you Love your curves and all your edges All your perfect imperfections" The fact that Kaladin loves Shallan because she's broken but able to smile anyways (<3)--he's the only person in the world who knows her entire story (because at the point of the chasm scene, Shallan wouldn't even admit to herself the truth of her mother's death). Plus the fact that Kaladin is draw to both the good and the bad of Shallan, including her smile (curves--ha ha), her jibes (edges), and her past and how she dealt with it (perfect imperfections). "Give your all to me I'll give my all to you" The fact that they swapped their (almost full) stories with each other, which they'd never told anyone else before. "How many times do I have to tell you Even when you're crying you're beautiful too The world is beating you down, I'm around through every mood" Again, the fact that Kaladin finds beauty in Shallan when she's revealing (what she feels is) the worst part of herself: her past. "You're my downfall, you're my muse My worst distraction, my rhythm and blues I can't stop singing, it's ringing, in my head for you" By the end, I'd say this were the case. Anyway, I know this is a tangent and the two (the book and song) are not in any way actually related to one another. I just think it's interesting how closely the two fit together <3

First off, I think this is a good point, except that Taravangian doesn't ever say that it would be a net negative. His present-day thoughts on the matter still seem to indicate that, from a theoretical purely intellectual standpoint this still would be a net gain. You have to keep in mind, however, that both of his crazy ideas that he discusses have to do with Karbranth specifically: IQ to have children and suicide for those of lesser intelligence. I actually think that he was capable of realizing that people wouldn't want to do either of those things from an emotional/socio stand point. However, he's the king of Karbranth and can pass both of those into law. Therefore, it wasn't really a matter of misunderstanding human emotions, but rather believing that, as a (brilliant) king, this was the best course of action to take for the better good that was within his power at the time. The Diagram, while on a completely other level of super intelligence, spans the entire world. He's not the king of the world (yet). So the Diagram takes into account everyone's emotions/reactions because it's necessary for him to understand in order to manipulate the people involved to make himself the king of the world. Of course, if Taravangian had been a little smarter on his "just high intelligence" days, he may have also realized that people's emotions would have possibly caused riots based on their emotional reaction to his "wonderful" laws--this may be due to an inability to fully read people's emotions/gauge their reactions, even while emotionally detached.

In regards to the first question, I think PudgyNinja has a good point. The other thing is that we may not know enough about Shallan's order yet. We're obviously still learning new things about them all. Despite that fact that Shallan has been able to use Pattern as a shardblade at least since she killed her mother, she only just allowed herself to face that truth. Because of that, we haven't gotten to learn much about how her order works. Kaladin, on the other hand, has been having active discussions with Syl throughout part of TWoK and all of WoR about how the Windrunners work. Because of that, we've gotten to see a lot more about how their Oaths effect them. I'm sure we'll learn more in book three.

A few quick questions: -When were the "Sons of Honor" (and their motives) mentioned? Is this from in the book or somewhere else? (I was reading rather quickly and haven't been able to do a re-read yet). -Similarly, how do we know that them saying something would reveal them to Odium? (Or are you saying that if more people had looked into it then they were risking others bringing the Unmade back?) As a tag on question, they discuss the Unmade as their gods--is Odium the Unmade, or are the Unmade a part of Odium (perhaps as a Sliver/Splinter)? -Finally, we don't know why Gavilar told the listeners about his plan. Was he really bragging about it? Or was there something else? It could be he was asking them about their thoughts and they freaked out--maybe because they were afraid of anyone knowing about their gods, they decided to just kill him and bury the whole issue?

Ditto, actually! Also, I feel the need to freak out over the amount of detail and just pure artistic genius that Sanderson used to craft their relationship. Literally every time I got back to read over a little bit of it, I'm just blown away by how complex and genuine their relationship is. Everything happens so naturally, which is another reason why I'm totally on board. At first I was really worried it would feel forced, but I should have known better--it's Sanderson.

Well, since most people addressed the whole "he's a protector and she hates that" argument (which, I agree 100%--he worked with her as a team, not as something fragile to put in a box and never let out), I'll address this issue. I think that the idea that Shallan doesn't have to wind up with one of the two is a good point. Technically, Shallan doesn't have to wind up with anyone. I really think that Shallan has two very good friends in both of these men, whether she winds up with one of them romantically in the end or not. And I think Shallan's/Kaladin's relationship would still be very powerful as close friends to support each other. That being said, I do agree that there is a substantial amount of evidence (and at the very least hints) that Shalladin will be a thing. So no, just because Shallalin probably won't be a thing does not mean that Shalladin will be. But the text supports it rather firmly, at least so far.

You forget Kaladin's already shaky role in this whole system. Dalinar owes him his life and obviously trusts Kaladin, Even so, Kaladin has a knack for stepping a little too high for his rank. I'm not condoning the lighteye/darkeye discrimination going on here, but it is a huge part of their culture. Dalinar hesitantly overlooks most of Kaladin's minor "transgressions" because Kaladin only tends to speak up when it's something important/useful (or when showing that he truly respects Dalinar, such as calling him only "sir"). This, however, is going a little far. He's accusing both a high officer as well as Dalinar's personal friend. The fact that he even said he'd look into it is a pretty big thing. When Kaladin pushes it, it's going too far. It is NOT Dalinar's responsibility to keep Kaladin informed on this issue. From Dalinar's eyes, the fact that he even listened to Kaladin's accusation in the first place is a major thing. I'm not going to say that Dalinar did or did not look into it fully--maybe he really did write Kaladin off. But it's not a matter of "bad communication." It's a matter of rank and respect. Above all of that, it's very obvious that Kaladin holds a personal grudge against Amaram. So much about the lighteyes and Alethi court in general comes down to bickering and personal grudges already. And don't forget that Dalinar is convinced that he must unite them. I'm sure he doesn't want the captain of his personal guard starting problems with his best friend. As far as Dalinar knows, Kaladin's grudge against Amaram could be much similar to Moash's grudge against the King--rather than the awfulness of what Amaram actually did.

Ooh, Lirin didn't like the Radiants? I didn't remember that. I should have re-read WoK first. Honestly, I'm afraid Kaladin's going to come home to a very broken house, if his parents are even still there. I could see his mother having passed away and his father having turned into a drunk. The whole issue was already running Lirin haggard. Then both of his sons were taken away. THEN he gets a letter from Kal that Tien is dead, it's Kal's fault, and Kal is never coming home again. Things are not going to be good.

I loved all of the scenes between them, but I have to say that this was the line: I mean, of course it's the turning point when Kaladin finally starts to see something beautiful in Shallan. But this was just so beautifully written. I actually wrote down that quote and pinned it to my wall at work today because it's just that awesome. <3

Oh, another good point. I was so focused on the similarities of what they said that I forgot about how the chapter ended. =) I agree 100%. That would have been awesome. EDIT: Oops, meant to add this and then forgot. I'm calling that at some point in the future Shallan is thinking to herself something along the lines of the "That was all right. She liked Adolin as he was. he was kind, noble, and genuine. It didn't matter that he wasn't brilliant or... or whatever else Kaladin was" and Pattern suddenly starts humming in appreciation. Good lie, yes?

Ooh, I didn't notice that. I just went back to re-read it. Kaladin rides a brown mare named Spray who is 15 years old. There isn't much description of Shallan's horse. Kaladin describes it as brown, she describes it as a gelding, and Adolin tells her that her horse has a lot of experience being ridden. I'm not a big horse expert, but Wikipedia is telling me that a gelding is a castrated male horse. So that may not be the case =\ Would have been awesome, though.

I agree. At the end of Part 3, the ONLY thing keeping me reading was Alice Arneson's "Spoiler-free Reactions." In particular, her quote about vindication is what made me finally suck it up and plow on through the rest of it to see what happened.

Okay, I read through this whole thread because I really wanted to hear everyone's thoughts, and plus I wanted to make sure I wouldn't just be repeating things others had already beaten to death. It's probably a good thing that I read through it all (although it took forever ><) Anyway,I think Seloun and Paradox probably both phrased my personal thoughts best. When I first started reading WoR and saw the first hints of Shalladin, I was pretty upset. First of all, it just didn't seem plausible, and I thought that it would be really forced. Second, I really didn't like the idea of the two main characters (so far ... I mean, books one and two are their books, after all) becoming a love interest. And third, their relationship really, REALLY reminded me of Elantris... Anyway, despite the fact that I felt it was very similar and all of my other ill-will toward the ship, I think I'm firmly on the Shalladin boat. Based on what we've seen so far (as everyone has pointed out), I really feel like their relationship is going to be huge. Also, I feel the immense need to point out that, even though I'm fairly certain they will 'date' at some point, I'm perfectly fine if they don't 'wind up' together. I actually can see the two of them becoming very close friends who are there to support each other or, at the bare minimum, understand each other. And I think that would be amazing. That's the kind of friendship you strive to find at least once in a lifetime. So, either way, I'd be fairly happy. However, from a ship standpoint, there were a few more minor things that I wanted to point out that I don't think were addressed quite yet. First and foremost, did anyone pick up on the horse comments? Please, please tell me someone did. Long before Kaladin and Shallan even met Sanderson was implying that they are very similar. There are two or three of these moments right up to when they first meet. At first I thought, "Uh oh. Is he hinting that they'll get together? ... No way. He wouldn't do that." After the second, I thought, "Please be a coincidence." (Note: It's now been almost a week since I read Part 1,and I can't remember the first two off the top of my head. And I am NOT rereading the first 300 pages to find them.) Anyway, and then this happened: Coincidence? I think not. They even use the same description words (snorting, docile) and comparisons of what a better animal should be like: chulls. Second, I know that it's been brought up that Shallan and Kaladin's bickering isn't healthy. I have to say that I disagree. Their bickering at the beginning was unhealthy because they were both aiming to intentionally offend. However, that definitely changed over the course of the book into something much more affectionate. I think this is reinforced by the fact that quips are how Shallan shows her love to those who are most important to her: her brothers, in particular. I actually think that Shallan needs those quips. They're a fundamental part of who she is, even though she often uses them to try to cover up her true feelings (the much quoted scene where she waits for Adolin to throw another comeback and is then disappointed backs this idea up). I think Adolin's "intelligence" is another factor that is important here. I use quotes because I agree with the people who have pointed out that Adolin isn't "dumb." He's very smart, and Shallan knows that (as she points out in the winehouse scene). Even so, it's not the scholarly type of intelligence that is so key to Shallan's relationships with others (think Jasnah, in particular). Someone earlier (I'm not going to go back now to look up who) interpreted the scene on the plateau where Adolin runs off as Adolin already understanding what Shallan was doing. I don't think that's the case. I think he's just not interested in that kind of stuff--scholarship, to be precise. He's very much like Dalinar with Navani--unless it can help him in battle, he doesn't pay it all that much attention (and I'm not going to get into a Dalinar/Navani discussion right now, just using it as an example). Anyway, I don't think that's what Shallan wants. Scholarship is one of the most important things in her life--it's what she wants to do with her life (I can totally relate to that). Do I think she could be happy with Adolin? Yeah, possibly. But I think that Kaladin could make her far happier because he would be genuinely interested in all of her research, not just the helpful battle tips. And then there's this bit: She is openly admitting that he has a type of intelligence that Adolin doesn't have. She's not saying that one is "better" than the other. However, one of the two fits her a little better, I'd say. In addition, (and this isn't the best argument, although it's something I noticed), the way the relationships start out, Shallan and Adolin at first appear to have the most in common: lighteyes, for one, as well as an interest in the war on the listeners and an attraction for one another. Shallan and Kaladin, on the other hand, seem to be opposites (especially in each others' eyes). However, as the book goes on, you realize that Shallan and Adolin actually have very little of substance in common with each other (which I think is a fundamental part of beginning a relationship), whereas Shallan and Kaladin are shown to have a startling number of things in common (even before the two meet each other). Finally: First off, maybe it's just because I was reading this at 2am, but this was one of those dizzying, perfect moments. If your heart didn't melt at this scene, then it's probably as rock hard as a horneater's teeth. (Haha, excuse me for waxing dramatic.) Anyway, this is why I think Shalladin will work and Shadolin will not. Shallan and Adolin start off attracted to each other for their looks, and their relationship (thought it deepens) seems to still be hovering near that physical attraction level. Shallan and Kaladin, on the other hand, are attracted to each other only after seeing a glimmer of the other's "real" self--they're attracted to who that person actually is. ... Sorry this is so long. >> I didn't plan to make it this long, promise. tl;dr: I'm voting Shalladin based on evidence in the book. And did no one else pick up on the storming horses? Please?

I agree with this idea. After all, Rock could drink ale that melts cups. And he eats shells happily. Seems to imply that when he says lowlanders can't swim in the lake, he's being serious.

I hadn't thought of this, but this would be pretty awesome. Frustrating, but awesome. Also, if I may ask, which morse code paragraph? I don't want to get too off topic, but I just want to point out that this is very similar to how some fabrials work. And So really, the idea of tapping/touching a gem to make a connection with a shardblade seems to fit. Well, regular shardblades don't grant surgebinding abilities (although honorblades might). So I see plenty of reason to bond with a spren. Of course, Syl, Jasnah's spren (the name is escaping me currently), and Lift's spren have all made comments about being wary of reaching out to humans.

But think about it. Jasnah said that her spren has mentioned that the humans betrayed the spren in some way. What if that was the betrayal: locking a spren within a shardblade to make it work? We know that Navani traps spren inside of the fabrials she creates. It could be why Syl hates the shardblades so much--they are spren trapped against their will and represent the human betrayal. I love this. He did it without thinking, and I think it's going to be a tough battle for him, but Adolin is definitely starting to mirror Dalinar's actions/reactions from the first book. I just hope that he continues to mirror the good and doesn't instead diverge down a different path.

Brandon tends to write the character's chapters all at once. At least with WoR, he wrote each character's straight through. I think I remember hearing that he did the same thing with WoK. You should be fine

Your phone also did this to your post on the last page: I think that's supposed to be "in line." I thought it was kind of cute, though.

I hear what you're saying. I'm not sure how much I would like to read about a character's past if they're already dead. Let me find Brandon's quote... (From: http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/02/the-title-for-brandon-sandersons-second-stormlight-archive-book-has-been-revealed) Oops, look like I got the book # wrong--book 5. Sorry. Shoot... now that I look at this quote, I know there's another with more info. Well, there's this one: From: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDQQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theoryland.com%2Fintvsresults.php%3Fkwt%3D'dalinar'&ei=TcdhUuTSA4-24APlz4GwAw&usg=AFQjCNFHLBTj6-9Z_xy5A6PdIKDFNnvyHg&sig2=iegZxLOblJQUdHcThK0XLw&bvm=bv.54934254,d.dmg Either way, he always uses Dalinar as an example. Honestly, you could use that as an argument that Dalinar won't die (since he keeps saying it over and over), but really, Dalinar just seems too close to understanding what's going on (between the book and his visions) to survive that long. He also mentioned something once (that I can't find), basically saying that he originally wanted everyone to be alive for their book, but it just wasn't going to work out. Instead of torturing himself, he decided the flashbacks could be done separately. Based on that, SOMEONE is going to die before their book. It's just a matter of who. Edited because the links did something funky

Nice catch, there. Not sure if I can believe the quote was about Kaladin, but it's still a good point. However, I definitely agree with these ideas about Szeth's blade: Shardeblades were made to kill the monsters of the desolations. They're huge because the enemy was huge. Although I can understand the argument about a shorter sword not doing much if they're both shardblades, couldn't it also be a possibility that Szeth's blade isn't made to kill shardbearers, but instead just civilians? He kills a lot of people, and a lot of them have shardblades, but the vast majority of them are just plain people. Then, a shorter sword isn't a disadvantage--it comes down to what you're most familiar with. And especially for a Windrunner, I would think that shorter/swifter would fit better.

Uh, I just wanted to point out that this idea really bothered me. Rock says that his people regard spren highly, but there is also a very particular word for the kind of person he is--someone who can see spren. That implies that not everyone can. I would go so far as to say that there aren't very many who can. So instead of coming down to Rock and his people believing so strongly that spren exist they can just magically see them, it instead seems to be an individual ability. Well, in regards to how this argument originally came up (i. e., is Jasnah acting honorably?), although Syl offering is a loop hole for Kaladin, it does support Jasnah's actions with Lyss as honorable. So far, there is no evidence that Jasnah has ever had anybody killed. Sure, she may have. And it says that she's involved with a number of assassins. However, the way she references them seems to imply that she may be using them the same way--to keep an eye on her family. If that's the case, Jasnah is interacting with assassins in an attempt to protect her family, not endanger them. She is hiring Lyss to watch her sister-in-law, not to kill her. She's afraid Elhokar's wife may pose a threat, so if it comes to that it sounds like Jasnah may be willing to have her killed. However, she's adamant that she does not want her killed yet, just watched. And that's exactly what Syl is doing--just watching. So you can't say that Syl's actions fall within the ok limits without including Jasnah's actions in those same limits. I really love this idea. If Jasnah is right in saying the Voidbringers are parshmen, then the Heralds would have ample reason to call Parshendi "creatures" in such a nasty way. Finally, I just wanted to make sure I'm clear on this little point: This bit could be taken two ways. At first I just assumed that Jasnah means that she wants to hide that she's a woman, since most peopel think "The Weeper" is a man. However, the sentence "It was said the Weeper gouged them out to proclaim indifference whether her victims were lighteyed or dark." made me re-think. If it's what "they" are saying (aka, rumors), then wouldn't it be "whether his victims" if they think the Weeper a man? So I guess what I'm asking is: am I reading this crazy? Is it just she wants to hide she's a girl, or is it that it's really a man posing as a woman? Everything about her screams woman to me, but I want to make sure.

Awesome, thanks for the heads up! Does anyone have a link to the reading? I'd love to check it out