darkanimereal1

Okay, before I forget to mention this, I found both of these really funny: Branson ... A new nickname based on a mash up of "Brandon" and "Sanderson?" Hee hee, Also, "I bet she has some tricks up her safepouch!"? Pure gold. Anyway, I don't think Szeth's shardblade is good for Kaladin, if that makes sense. I could get behind the idea that it's a regular KR blade, which I still think is corrupted (I'll discuss this below), but I really think it falls into the third category. This is because Szeth's different from Kaladin. This has probably been hashed and rehashed out a number of times (forgive me for not being up to date here, I'm only just getting the time to come back online and participate in the forums now that I'm done with school and am settled into a job), but Szeth is either of a different order than Kaladin, or of something entirely else. We don't know who, what, or where Szeth's spren is for Surgebinding, or if he even has one. There was no mention of tiny little spren holding things in place when he Surgebinds, like there are with Kaladin. Sanderson also made a comment somewhere (I can dig it up later if someone else doesn't know it off the top of their head) that Kaladin and Szeth are different. This could be as simple as being in different orders, or as big as them using different magic systems. The fact that we never hear about Spren from Szeth coupled with the fact that Kaladin is so much more powerful than Szeth seems to imply to me that there is more difference here than just between orders (although I could be taking this too far. For one, we're still not sure if Jasnah sees the Truthspren that Shallan and Elhokar see). It's almost like Szeth's powers are a shadow of what Kaladin's are. Plus, we know that Kaladin is the first person on the way to becoming a KR. Szeth knows a lot about the magic, but that implies that he isn't becoming a KR. Okay, this is where what I mentioned before comes in. I can definitely get behind the idea that the KR altered the investiture of the Shards when they abandoned them. When Syl sees Gavilar give up his shardblade to Sadeas, Syl tells Kaladin that it isn't good. She was also glad that Kaladin didn't take the shardblade from Amaram. I feel like the actions of the KR twisted the shardblades. Either that, or the people who have wielded them since have changed it, like you said. They're no longer used for protection, but for personal gain. Really, it reminds me of Shadar Logoth from Wheel of Time. It became so twisted that it's now tainted and bad to touch. Honestly, I could believe that Sanderson would kill of Dalinar in book two. It seems waaaay to early for me, but Brandon has repeatedly said that just because a certain character's book comes later doesn't mean they won't die before then. And then the example he gives is that, even though Dalinar's book is book 4, there's no guarantee he'll live that long. ... Which is just an example, except it really makes me think that Dalinar will not make it to book 4. I also agree that Kaladin's greater abilities will help amke up for his lack of experience.

I think this is a great point. If the Parshendi have any interest in it, it would seem Szeth doesn't know. On the other hand, I agree that it sounds like Gavilar is trying to keep the voidsphere from the Ghostbloods. We also know that the Ghostbloods have a keen interest in Jasnah and her soulcaster, and that they also (supposedly) had a soulcaster that they gave to Shallan's father (unless you go by the theory that soulcasting is genetic and her father was using a fake one, just like Jasnah). Either way, they have a keen interest in this, and it seems like Gavilar is trying to keep a major secret from them. I also really like Darnum's idea that the Parshendi wanted "a broken treaty with Alethkar". It's what seems to make the most sense, although there may be more clues to this based on the first Interlude from WoR that Brandon did a reading from (it's been a while since I heard it, so I can't quite recall). Also, on a random note (well, random given what I was just discussing), I think Robot Aztec has a point about the "infinite sides" thing. Mathematically, that's what a sphere is. Per Wikipedia: So, yeah, I think that's a decent point.

Well, either that, or (in the case that Cultivation has also been shattered by Odium) that they all come from the one who has gone, which could then be either Honor or Cultivation.

If you look at my original post, I quoted the part that says End-negative is very rare. The official WoB is: So, basically, it's possible that Szeth's magic is End-negative, however highly unlikely (I'm basing this off of Brandon's use of "oddity" to describe Hemalurgy). So you make a good point. However, it's still possible that Kaladin's surgebinding is End-positive while Szeth's is end-neutral. Sorry, I guess my wording was vague. I wasn't saying that a person loses power, but that power is lost in the transfer, which seems to be the case with Szeth vs. Kaladin--they're both drawing from similar sources, yet Kaladin seems to gain more of the Stormlight than Szeth does in the process, so theoretically Szeth my be losing some Stormlight when he transfers it from the sphere to himself--I don't know, is that more clear?

I think you're on to something with Szeth's magic, though. Sanderson categorizes his magic into three kinds: 1) End-positive (ie Allomancy) - "the practicioner draws in power from an external source.[2] The practicioner gains power from the external source. The Investiture is positive in that it adds - in most cases temporarily--power to the practicioner. Most types of Investiture are end-positive." 2) End-neutral (ie Feruchemy) - "power is neither gained nor lost[2]. The praticioner disposes about his amount of power, making it neutral in that power that is invested into an object, can be withdrawn to reinstall the orginial amount of power." 3) End-negative (ie Hemalurgy) - "some power is lost.[2] It is negative in that it removes some power from someone. End-negative Investiture is very rare" (Source) I would guess that whatever kind of magic Szeth is using, it may be End-negative. It seems that Szeth loses Stormlight very quickly whereas Kaladin is able to hold it for an extended period of time. (Source) It could also be that Szeth is end-neutral whereas Kaladin is end-positive--able to gain more than what he takes.

First: I would consider adding a spoiler to that since we're in the Stormlight Forum and not the Cosmere one. The code is "spoiler" with ['s one either end [like this] before the text and then "/spoiler" at the end. This is an EXCELLENT question. I'm not sure if the material will play as large a role as it did in (btw, it contains a Hero of Ages spoiler in case you haven't gotten that far) But I really think that writing in general will be a big deal. We know that a spren can be made to retain a certain characteristic when they are defined by written words. I'm curious to see if the same rules will apply on Roshar.

Hmm, you think Honorspren weren't until after Honor shattered? I kind of assumed they were around during the desolations, since the KR existed then. This is all assumption, but from what we've seen of Dalinar's visions it would appear that Honor was alive up until at least until the Recreance. I also assumed that Honorspren were of Honor (seems pretty logical). If I'm reading what you said correctly, you think that Honorspren came into existence after Honor was shattered? Maybe the better question to ask is: when do you think Honor was shattered?

That's awesome! I envy your language skills to be able to read a book in English and have such complex discussions about it on a forum like this. I've studied a lot of German literature and had to write detailed papers analyzing it, but never just in an off-the-wall discussion like this Exactly. This is what makes me think it has nothing to do with Odium. The only possibility (and I actually consider it an unlikely but possible situation because Sanderson has been known to create crazy twists like this) is that Vorinism was somehow corrupted by Odium. It could be that during the Hierocracy or some time after that Odium was able to manipulate the teachings to focus on him, so that the people are accidentally worshiping the wrong "god." I view this as highly unlikely, but it's just the kind of thing that Sanderson would whip up to boggle the minds of his readers.

I'm going to sound repetitive, but all three of you make very excellent points. At this point, it's basically just "well, we can make educated guesses, but we can't really draw a conclusion." Basically, I don't have enough evidence or gut feeling to go with one way or the other, but I do want to comment on a few things. OKay, first: I wish I had found this website a long time ago. Part of me is really, really tempted to just read through everything, but I just don't have the time or (quite honestly) the patience to sort through so many threads, even just in the Stormlight Forum. Second, this is a great point. If your conclusion--that the visions are current day--is correct, I could totally buy into the idea that the Everstorm is already here. It makes sense that the "Everstorm" is actually a multitude of increasingly horrific storms until there is nothing left of Roshar. However, I also like this idea. We know that the visions Dalinar was seeing took place all over the timeline. Although I strongly believe that his visions and the visions of the dying are different (in that Dalinar's were meant as a journal/record book while the others are perhaps merely glimpses into the future that Honor saw), I still think there are key correlating factors that would back up your theory. Finally, this also makes a lot of sense to me. We know that the KR were not aware when a desolation would occur, but that they were able to show up in places where the signs were showing (Such as in Dalinar's vision at the farm house). Although Taln is a Herald rather than KR, we know that Kaladin is becoming a KR. My thought is that the KR's would begin to gather just before the True/Last Desolation comes so that they can be prepared. Again, it could be that they come in the midst of the storms building up as part of one ultimate Everstorm. So really, I like all three ideas and I can't decide. But thanks for all the great thoughts! Got me thinking about it even more now...

First: is German your native language? I'm just finishing up a degree in German and your "ur-planet" made me smile It made me stop for a second, not because I didn't understand it, but because it made so much sense to me that I forgot it was in a different language. As for Honor's names, Coppermind claims that he has ten different names. Ten seems to be Honor's "Holy number" the same way that That, along with the fact that Elithanathile is a palindrome, makes me think that it is referring to Honor rather than Odium.

Dalinar and Navani are discussing some serious stuff about the world going downhill, i.e. assassinations, the 'twisted' things people say when they die. It seems they both have heard of highstorms actually growing more powerful. Which...is definitely odd given that ketek. I used to think that perhaps they were growing stronger as the desolation approaches, , but going by the best assumptions of the calendar, the Everstorm had already begun when the conversation happened. So yeah, sorry to confuse it more. But it's definitely a contradictory situation. First, I'm curious why you think that the Everstorm has already begun. I'm guessing this was discussed in a different topic that I never got to see. Second, it could be that because they're dying they are getting stronger and more dangerous, like some kind of disease maybe. Way too early to know for sure, and for all we know the ketek may be unreliable--the scribes seems to question it, at least.

Ha ha, love the Hoid thing. Also, I'm still not sure. Like Elwynn pointed out, WoB is that they're from Aimia, which I had completely forgotten. For all we know larkin are not the same thing as what's on the table. The description was so similar that that was my first connection, though. True, I've stated else where that I don't think that the parshmen or Parshendi are inherently evil. I think they are individuals who make their own choices just as with humans. And I agree, if they are of Cultivation that would be a huge blow for Odium to use them for destructive reasons. Also, agreed that we have no information one way or the other about Honor and Cultivation. I respect that you're purely speculating. So am I, which is why I said that "I assumed." I don't want to sound overbearing, but I do want to point out that I'm not at all disagreeing with what you're saying. I'm just throwing out food for thought/further speculation. I'm sorry if I came across as doing otherwise. Edit for clarification (before it my wording made it sound like I was saying parshmen are human).

OKAY. I'm going to post this here, because this conversation about highstorms is what I kept thinking about, even though it's been a while since anyone has replied. Anyway, I completely forgot that (if the ketek is right) the highstorms are dying. Not only that, but the "dying storms illuminate the silence above." I can't help but wonder if the "silence above" is the lack of Honor (and possibly Cultivation) in the same sense that people think of God as in heaven "above" Earth. This could support the theory either that: A) the storms are of Honor and are dying now that it's been splintered or that the storms are dependent on all three and are dying now that 1 (or 2) out of 3 are splintered. Any thoughts? Edited to take out the Sunglasses smilie.

I think Meg is saying that Jasnah thinks the Parshmen, and possibly also the Parshendi, are not "caretakers" but are actually Voidbringers who cause mass destruction--rather than saying that Jasnah is upset with Honor or Odium, which she doesn't know exist. I agree, but then I also have to wonder who or what that face in the highstorms is. Is it a spren? Is it the spirit of Jez? Is it something else? I have no idea. Also, we're not sure if Cultivation's shardholder is still alive or if Cultivation has been splintered or not. For all we know, Cultivation's not thinking anything about anyone. And considering that Cultivation and Honor came to Roshar at the same time, I kind of assumed they were buddy-buddy. I'm still unsure whether Honor and Cultivation were happy or not when Odium first came to Roshar--part of me wants to believe that they welcomed him with open arms and then were stabbed in the back.

True. Or Adonalsium could have been neutral. And this goes for the "shard" (since technically, Adonalsium as a whole wouldn't be a shard...) or a holder (if there was one). Or even a god if that's what Adonalsium was. This is a good point. I really want to know what's up with Szeth and if Odium has any influence over him. We know that Szeth is NOT getting powers like Kaladin is, which makes me think his magic comes from Odium. Also a great point. I'm on the "shards are not inherently evil" bandwagon here.

Well, that something strange is that they don't have highstorms. I just think it odd that horses are not native to Roshar. Do we know for sure that Ryshadium are actually horses? Like, are they just a different breed, or are they a different animal all together?

Oooh, I never saw that one. Thanks! And are we sure that the gemhearts out of chrysalises and that chasmfiend are infused? I might have missed this information. I'm not sure about the infused. Also, I forgot that it's Gavilar's assumption that the Parshendi worship the chasmfiends. Thanks for pointing all of that out!

Definitely some interesting ideas to note. I'm particularly interested in their infused gems and why they form a chrysalis. Also, both the Parshendi and the Reshi view Greatshells as gods. As for their size, that is made possible by two things: 1) that Roshar's gravity is about .7 of Earth's (which is also what makes Dalinar's huge bridges possible) and 2) the symbiotic relationship with spren (which Brandon explains in the quote Windrunner provided) In an interview Brandon said: Also: I though that the smoke was confirmed to be spren. I'll have to see if I can dig up a quote. I'm fairly certain those are larkin, which are smaller than a person's arm (if I understood correctly). You find out a little bit about them in the interlude for Rysn in WoR that Sanderson posted as videos of him writing on Youtube. Anyway, as a final point, I always assumed that the physical manifestation of Honor was the Stormlight, just how the physical manifestation of Ati is Atium and Leras is Lerasium. Atium was a means of release of Ruin, via the Pits of Hathsin. It seems to be very similar: a way to siphon off some of the power (like an outlet as I mentioned) that gives some sort of magical ability to those who can harness it. Edit: Forgot we were in Cosmere boards and had too many spoiler tags.

Hmm, that may make sense. I need to take a closer look at the Ars Arcanum--it's been too long! Thanks for pointing it out

Actually, Brandon has confirmed that there will be a Taln interlude in WoR. It's possible that it could be a flashback, but I find this doubtful since all of the interludes we've read so far have been taking place real-time. I couldn't find the exact Brandon quote, but there is something here.

I think this is a great catch. It definitely helps tie in the importance of sounds and words on Roshar (that the cities are shaped like vibrations, that the writing is a wavelength, and Kaladin speaking the words). I wonder if there is a difference between what is an Odium-influenced or non-Odium-influenced waveform.

You know, I could see this happening. Also, for the spoiler,

Well, even though Odium isn't currently holding any of the splintered shards, he could have held them after the shardholder was killed. Maybe he killed the holder, picked up the shard and recovered, but then became a sliver and splintered the shard. Or he splintered the shard while holding it. Anyway, I feel like that may have helped him splinter it afterward. From here.

I don't think Jasnah is saying that water is a form of blood. She says the 8 forms of blood are EASIER to make than water, implying it's not one of them. What I find interesting here is that Jasnah appears to say here that but water isn't a pure essence, which is odd.

Another thought on how the magic on Roshar is divided from here: The question is, do both of these two different (?) systems fall under KR/surges, or are they two separate things?