darkanimereal1

Dude, which one? xD

I like the question about why Hoid is hanging around the court. He's got to be trying to gain SOMETHING. Even if it's not related to a bead, this is a question I haven't considered enough, so kudos for point it out My two favorite theories are 1) of Odium and 2) from Shadesmar. Either one works for me, although I tend to lean toward the first. Again, agreed. Dude, I wish that it wasn't Hemalurgy, but that would lend new meaning to "keeping it as safe as my own skin." Yeesh.

That makes me wonder what Odium's outlet on Roshar is, however. Well, we've already established that there are only three Shards on Roshar at any point. I've mentioned this probably three times already, but it applies here as well: Part of me keeps wanting to think that originally when Odium came to Roshar it wasn't technically a bad thing. Perhaps that's what the oathpact was--allowing Odium into the mix, but in a decent way. There would be conflict, but maybe conflict was seen as helping the people rather than allowing themselves to become lazy (as Odium is trying to sit back and let them do now). Something about the phrase "the broken one" makes me believe that there is something wrong with Odium that wasn't when he first came to Roshar.

You would think, though, that if people had varying ideas about spren and each saw spren somewhat differently that when they went to talk about them they would compare descriptions and realize that what they saw were different. I know this is a society that takes spren for granted, but young children would see them and ask their parents, and somewhere along the line you would realize that you're seeing two different things. Perhaps, instead of it being completely dependent on one person's perception, it has to do with the over-all perception of something. Just like in TES, where the object has an established idea of what people think about it, the spren and it's physical appearance has to do with how the spren perceives most people think about it. Maybe, but haven't people also speculated that Dalinar will be a Stonewarden? If so, Dalinar should be (theoretically) able to see the cryptics/truthspren that are bothering Elhokar. Or at the very least see them in the mirrors or out of the corner of his eye. Also, Rock describes his ability to see Syl as something special, but not unheard of among the Unkalaki. Unless there's a whole flock of blooming Unkalaki surgebinders up in the mountains, I think this is probably not true. Plus, I feel like Teft would have noticed if Rock were draining stormlight, since he notices Kaladin doing it. At least after Teft figures out Kaladin, I would think he would be paying more attention to those details everywhere he looks.

As per your theory or based off something Brandon has said? I honestly think that the second chart could go either way (meaning Cultivation or Odium). That depends on a lot. First, I'm particularly worried since the one much-quoted line states "Once three of sixteen ruled. Now the broken one rules." The "three of sixteen" implies some kind of state of balance, even if it's just an equilibrium or even something like Ruin/Preservation. The phrase "broken one" implies that there is something wrong with Odium now that he's the only one ruling. I'm not quite sure what to make of that. I bring this up only because the content of the Oathpact could deeply influence your theory here (at least from the chart perspective). I think that the first chart could either be entirely Honor-based or Honor AND Cultivation (particularly if my theory about the masculine/feminine arts has any truth to it). In the first case, the second chart could be completely Cultivation. In the second, it would make sense if the second chart is Odium's. A third option, however, is that the Oathpact was between all three Shards and was actually to protect against the Desolations. For some reason, I keep getting the feeling that maybe Odium wasn't completely whacko-bent from the beginning. If the three of them ruled together, it could have been held by the Oathpact, which makes the origin of the second chart a lot harder to figure out. I think a large part of why I keep going back to this idea (aside from the "three of sixteen rule" quote) is that the masculine arts all seem to do with destroying while the feminine seem to center around creating. And if Honor truly is about protect against the desolations, it has to do with destroying even while it's dealing with "honor" and "binding". Maybe the "masculine" shards worked together to create shardblades which would defend but also destroy, while Cultivation worked to create (I still believe the Dawnshards are of Cultivation and bring things back together--perhaps a contract between Cultivation and Honor which binds together to create rather than destroy). Who knows. I could argue both sides back and forth for hours, but I'll cut myself off here.

lol, who's Phantine? Just saw the reddit question.

My feelings exactly. lol ALSO. I completely forgot to mention while I was talking about stormform/Parshendi/Gavilar: As far as the black stone goes, the theory that makes most sense to me is that the sphere is a physical manifestation of Odium similar to Atium or Lerasium. I know that (as far as we know) no one burns metals on Roshar, but that just makes the most sense to me, particularly if it's the reason that the Parshendi had him killed. Also, like MadRand said, I think it odd that the Parshendi wouldn't tell Szeth to retrieve it. But then again, maybe Gavilar was vague in describing what he had or whatever his idea was. I doubt the Parshendi knew that he had the sphere--they just knew that he knew too much.

Well, we know for certain that the connection to Shadesmar depends on the amount of sentient life/thought that happens in a certain area: That's from here:http://www.reddit.com/r/Stormlight_Archive/comments/1a3fj0/discussion_of_the_week_shadesmar_truthspren/c8vet5f So I feel like there is some kind of connection between the physical realm and Shadesmar.

Interesting new comment from Brandon about an hour ago at the AMA: http://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/1ced7z/iamstilla_novelist_named_brandon_sanderson_ama/c9hpuvd My question was only two comments up from that one, hopefully he'll get to answering all the rest soon (though I know he's traveling right now).

It seemed to me like the larkin come from the greatshells themselves. The spirit of the Isle--the spren?--gave it to Rysn. That implies that they live within the greatshell. That also would explain why Vstim trades with them: they have access to the larkin once they die, since they come from within the isle itself. This is a good point. I never really thought to distinguish the relativity of "West." However, I also think that Urithiru may have been built in the Cognitive Realm, in which case the question of "West" becomes rather interesting... Another good point. If it were in the Cognitive Realm, "centrality" maybe have been less important.

This isn't the whole passage, but bits that I want to talk about. Technically, I feel like we should have a totally different topic for this, since this thread is somewhat bi-polar, but whatever. I think Shallan used the Shardblade to do the killing. Although I've read a lot of people disagreeing and thinking she's just the reason behind it, why would she call herself "A monster who killed, who murdered." It's one thing to say "I'm to blame" for someone's death. It's another to specifically call yourself a murderer. Unless she's as misguided as Simba is by Scar right after his father's death (which is plausible) ... (lol for a Disney reference when discussing a room full of corpses), I really don't think she would call herself a murderer. That's on top of the blood that her father wipes from her face. This is especially because I assume she's about 10-12 at this point. Still old enough to recall things from childhood, but not nearly as old as she is now. I also think that ALL of the corpses were killed by shardblade. Right after reading this excerpt Brandon answers this question: If you ask me, that seems to imply that all of the bodies were killed by shardblade, and whoever was wielding it just continued to hack away afterwards. I'm not sure which mother is dead, although during my first read-through of this I just sort of assumed it was her birth mother. I have to take a closer look at this. Honestly, the idea of Shallan calling herself a "monster" makes me think that she's the one who caused the carnage. The fact that her "mother" is not all cut up kind of implies that it was (maybe) an accident that she hit her mother, so she didn't go insane on her with the blade. I guess my question is this: I know a lot of you don't think it was Shallan who did this, but if it were somehow her then how did she get the shardblade? I had always assumed her father had one and when she killed him she had gotten it, but now I'm unsure. I definitely agree, though, that she didn't know about the soulcaster at this point. OR, as an alternative, someone killed her mother and Shallan went whacko on the killer, killed him, took the shardblade, and continued to create the carnage. But how would a 10 year old kill someone with a shardblade? I dunno...

I really like this idea. I want to point out some key things people have said in this thread, then I'll draw a conclusion at the bottom. I really like this idea. too. Agreed. Agreed. This is an excellent point. We know that Rysn's babsk is was the first non-Shin holder of Szeth's Oathstone. So how did it go from him to the Parshendi? I think it very well could have been the night of. Maybe the work of a 17th shard member or a Herald (I believe there were at least two present that night--Shalash and the drunk man). Yeah, this also really bothered me. The thought only occurred to me recently. I think the idea that they can mate, but not "perfectly" is plausible, but it also kind of reminds me of the (Mistborn) This is the theory I back. 100%. I don't think that the parshmen/Parshendi are COMPLETELY of Odium, but I do think that Odium can force them into some form (which may or may not be stormform) which would force them to become voidbringers. Another Mistborn spoiler: As for Urithiru, I'm on the "Urithiru existed only in Shadesmar" bandwagon, which Brandon said IS possible. That would explain why you can't walk there. But I am still very intrigued what "shattered" the plains. I also feel like there could be a tie between Urithiru's location in Shadesmar and the Shattered Plains. Agreed.

I honestly would have no problem with Jasnah being a lesbian. She's got a very strong and independent nature which I think would lend well to taking an independent stance on sexuality, particularly because she's already considered an outcast. But I also agree here: I highly doubt that Jasnah is, specifically because Brandon said (in regards to a gay character in WoR) "I've tried to be more GLBT aware in recent years, but I want to be careful. Doing it poorly could be more insulting than doing it not at all. Having Ryan, the real world Drehy from Bridge Four, as a friend does at least give me access to someone who can give early feedback and tell me where I might be going wrong. So let's just say maybe." In that light, I doubt that he'd make a main character gay so soon. Maybe he'll wait and Jasnah will come out in later books, once he has a better sense if he can write the situation well enough, but I have a hard time believing that. His answer was here: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/2383-qa-with-brandon-sanderson/?p=42475

Yeah, I could see that. I think it's definitely worth considering at least

I really agree with this. It would make sense, since the Windrunners used to RIDE the Highstorms, which seems to indicate that they were (at least once) of Honor or somehow related. And they come from the Origin, which would indicate they are coming from him. I know people have theorized that his body is in the West, drawing the storms toward him, but something about this theory really doesn't fit in my mind. Wait, wait, wait. I love the idea of the landmass of Roshar rotating, BUT if you remember the quote about Honor being in the West specifically refers to Alethkar being in the East (The Alethi wanted Urithiru built in their country, but it didn't make sense because Honor resides in the West). That was for a long time ago, from the actual WoK, so theoretically Alethkar was in the East back then and still is.

Hmm, good point. I think that if it IS an influence of the corrupted shardblades, that it is susceptible to Odium's influence. I recently stumbled on this: Q: Is there any ramifications to the holder of a shard blade for using a blade in a manner that it wasn't intended? B: Depends on the type of Shardblade. (You have seen three different kinds in TWoK.) For most, no. For some, most certainly.It could be that, now that the blades are used for killing and personal gain rather than honor they are susceptible to Odium. This kind of goes along with another quote I saw from Brandon stating that there is a crucial difference between the old and "new" shardblades, because something is missing. I can find this if you'd like, although it would take some digging. I agree. I really think this is Odium. It really, REALLY reminds me of (Mistborn) A subtle way of influencing thoughts while waiting and twiddling your thumbs until the right moment to strike comes along. I really like this idea, and also goes along with my feeling that Parshendi are influenced by Odium. I'm not saying I think Parshendi are OF Odium, just that something about them allows him to manipulate them when he wants, such as turning them into full-fledged voidbringers or something.

Awww, thanks! I'm so excited about the cookie! It's beautiful

Actually, I find most of this pretty spot on. Your point that he doesn't see Parshmen/Parshendi corpses is a huge thing--I never thought of that. Still, Parshendi are Parshmen who have found a form. I believe that the Parshendi are of Odium the same way that (Mistborn spoiler) I think that the Parshendi are individuals worthy of life and individuality, but something about them binds them to Odium and when Odium wants to take control, he either forces them into a particular form or that by being in a certain form the Parshendi and Parshmen alike are transformed into Voidbringers. With this in mind, it could be that no bodies of Parshmen are seen is because they have been forced into the Voidbringer form and are currently lying on the ground as rocks. If so, I wonder how this ties in with the Shin's reverence of rock. The 1 in 10 of the Desolation is just fricking amazing and I currently love you for pointing this out. I was wondering if we would see anything like Mistborn (also slight Elantris spoiler) The appearance of frost around Kaladin and Szeth reminds me of the mist on the Shardblades. I can't decide if the mist and frost should be taken as the same showing that surgebinding is also related to the Spiritual Realm, or if it should be taken as they are different, and surgebinding instead is related to the Cognitive Realm (and from what I've seen WoB, he has half-confirmed that spren have to do with the Cognitive Realm--basically answering someone saying that the fans were figuring this one out pretty quickly). Although now that I think about it, is it when they do the lashing, or is it when they breath in the Stormlight? Maybe it's not the surgebinding but the Stormlight that is creating the frost. I could also totally buy the Kaladin hearing voices thing. Another great catch that I would have never picked up on, despite everything with Vin and being FURIOUS with myself for not noticing. I feel like the burnt-eyes thing could show us that the eyes are a deep connection to the Spiritual Realm, which has a HUGE implication for the Inquisitors. Or maybe not, since Brandon has already mentioned/responded to questions about The only theory you have that I completely disagree with is the shard-killed people become Parshmen/Parshendi. I just cannot see this happening from a gut reaction. As for Dalinar's Boon, I really like this idea, although I'm torn between this and the fact that Dalinar mentions that he knows exactly what his Boon was--if he knew that his Boon was also the Curse, that would kind of defeat the purpose. I mean, maybe not, but that doesn't necessarily provide relief, which is what he was looking for--of course, not that the Nightwatcher would give him exactly what he wants, and it could be a punishment for his selfishness: knowing that you wanted to forget about your wife's death, so now you can't remember anything and you still feel guilty but you don't know why. That's a bit circular.... As for the corpses, again my theory goes back to them becoming one with stone or something. I dunno. I'm not convinced about the deathspren, although it could be. Hmm, the highstorms puzzle me to no end. I kind of feel like they're a mix of all three shards--they bring life via crem and water, so Cultivation. The windrunners used to ride them as Sons of Tanavast, so Honor. And yet they're very destructive and rip things apart--Odium, perhaps? I feel like Odium being destructive is a bit of a stretch, since Odium has to do with hate, although theoretically hate rips things/people apart, so perhaps...

I really think that the sphere has to do with Odium. It reminds me of Mistborn....

I'm torn. I totally agree with this theory because I had a similar thought. Even further, I couldn't help but wonder if Dalinar blamed himself for her death (or maybe even was the direct cause out of his inability to control his anger? ...) In that way, the Boon and the Curse would be the same. However, (and I don't have the quote) I distinctly remember Dalinar stating that he knew very well what his Boon was, but that he was not willing to discuss it with Adolin and Renarin (so it must have been when it got brought up between the three--perhaps when Navani is with them discussing the visions? I can't remember for sure...) In that case, I don't think that the Curse and Boon being exactly the same would work--if he wanted to forget, then how could he know for certain what the Boon was--he'd just forget every time he tried to think on it. Where is this mentioned? Whenever I read the book, I always got the distinct impression that the loss of memory of his wife was the Curse--he never refers to it as the Boon. I don't remember anything about Renarin's health being in the mix either, although I could have slipped over that part.

Actually, Brandon has stated this SO MANY TIMES, over and over again, that I really feel like he's trying to warn people that it will happen. He tends to use "Just because Dalinar's book is book 5 doesn't mean that he'll live until then." I honestly believe Dalinar will be gone by then. Who knows, maybe not, especially because we already know how that would affect Navani... I've always personally thought that Adolin/Shallan would be a thing. Maybe not permanently, but for a long relationship. Especially because Dalinar thinks that Adolin will need a strong woman to settle down with/kick his butt in gear. Like Cheese Ninja said, Axies does come up, and Sanderson seemed to imply in the video that we'll see more of him in Book 3 (but not in WoR). I think he's going to be rather big, despite being a side-story. Particularly since Brandon has mentioned that spren are a key part to figuring out how his Cosmere theories operate (at least, that's how I read the quote: "If you understand the spren you will understand a lot about the connection between the books.") Anyway, I definitely agree that I love him Edited for a minor spelling error

Ooh, was just looking through my pulled notes and found this from a Q&A with Brandon: "Q: What is the relationship between blood and the Spiritual Realm? (Since Hemalurgy needs blood to graft the sDNA in a spike into someone else's sDNA) B: The blood being in motion is part of it." From here: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/2383-qa-with-brandon-sanderson/?p=42476 This seems to reinforce that the ten heartbeats has a direct relationship to the Spiritual Realm.

Dude, I really like this idea. I guess a good way to find out would be to go back to Dalinar's vision when the two KR fall out of the sky. They have their armor on already, but do they have their shardblades? If they do, then I would say this theory is plausible. If they do not, but summon them, then I would say that would disprove this idea. Still cool Actually, I recently read a theory on Coppermind that shardblades reside in the Spiritual Realm when not in use: "It has been theorized that they are stored in the Spiritual Realm, when not used. Also it seems to produce its effect in the Spiritual Realm, killing the soul of people and not the body." For some reason, I really feel like I read a WoB about this. I can go dig it up if there's uncertainty just to be sure. Anyway, I would bet that the ten heartbeats are needed to focus enough energy to drag the Shardblade from the Spiritual Realm into the Physical one. Not sure what the meaning behind it is, but that would make sense to me.

I guess I'll say "Hi." I'm so excited to have discovered this site, even though I'm currently in my last 3 weeks of college before graduation and this is NOT helping my already senioritis-ridden procrastination. Anyway, this past Monday I stumbled on Coppermind and was astounded by how much information I was completely unaware of. I knew somewhat about the Cosmere stuff, but not much--mainly just that there was an over-arching plot in the making and that Hoid intentionally showed up in several books. Since Monday, I've spent all of my spare time reading through the Coppermind, topics on this forum, Brandon's latest AMA, and whatever else I can get my hands on. My brothers and I have been completely blown away by Brandon's books since we picked them up, and the Cosmere theories basically makes that a thousand times more awesome. We throw around a lot of theories, and I have several that I've already posted (hopefully in correct topics when I could find them). Anyway, looking forward to immense amounts of speculation, particularly once I officially graduate and actually have time that is not supposed to be devoted to homework.

I've had some ideas about the Dawnshards that I've been pushing around my head for a while, although when I first developed them I was unaware of Cultivation, so there are some holes that I cannot quite fill. At one point (while he is digging the latrine with his hammer/shardblade) Dalinar considers why there are no shardblades for the workers. It seems odd to him that there are only weapons for the warriors. Very shortly after that, (when Navani walks up and is upset that he forgot about their planned meeting), Navani comments something like (not actual quote) "Don't you think it interesting that masculine arts have to do with destroying while feminine arts are concerned with creating?" My thought is that Shardblades kill/destroy while Dawnshards are the "feminine, creative" shards (almost the shards for the workers which Dalinar wonders about). They would be matching, but opposite: Shardblades slice through things, but Dawnshards would bind things back together/heal. Originally when I learned about Cultivation, I assumed that she would be the creator of the Dawnshards, or that they would be a splinter of her. However, considering that my theory rides on Dawnshards binding things back together, they would probably be from Honor/Tanavast. However, I recently discovered that there are five male Heralds and five female Heralds (take a look at their images, they match up five and five, and in this chart http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121114044819/stormlightarchive/images/c/c7/Knights_Radiant_and_the_ten_Surges.jpg each of the male Heralds is directly across from a female one). This would imply that the masculine/feminine arts may have stemmed from the Heralds. In this case, the Dawnshards would have been a vital part of the heralds. This could be wrong--we know that there are 9 shardblades in the ground at the prologue. And we know that there are "Honorblades," but what if the honorblades are masculine and the Dawnshards are feminine. ... I'm not sure how that would be helpful during a Desolation, though, which seems to kind of undermine my theory. The only other thing is to go back to the theory that the Dawnshards are of Cultivation. This could still fall into the feminine/masculine dichotomy, too.