Abba Zaba

I agree with this thought - that the shards are something else entirely from what the original Knights Radiant carried or that they have become corrupted beyond recognition by the influence of Odium. As someone pointed out earlier in the thread, which I didnt even take into account in the original post, Kaladin feels a strong aversion to the weapon and armor. He sees the blood of his friends staining the blade and cant bear the thought of picking it up - risking his honor. Dalinar has begun to find honor and ends up giving his blade up. Do you think he would have proposed such a trade with Sadeas in his youth, before starting to hear from The Way of Kings? I think not. I also like the idea of people having to live by and speak the oaths of the Radiants to be what returns the holy relics - the true shards - to the people of Roshar. Just as Kaladin's father said, someone has to start and lead by example. Dalinar and Kaladin have started this trend and hopefully with their influence others can start living the same way and the Radiants can return.

I dont remember the text saying Szeth was lighteyed when wielding the shard, can you find that? I think that the legends surrounding a darkeyed person winning a shardblade and plate are just that - legends - that it happened so rarely or infrequently (possibly never) that the dark eyes invented it to give themselves some kind of hope that there is a possibility to rise above their current station in Alethkar.

It is Page 244 (Loc 4986) - Kindle Version. The very end of Chapter 15: The Decoy. "In other places it outright said that lighteyes were beneath darkeyes. That contradicted Vorin teachings." Ahh that part I hadnt noticed either, that there is a Vorin theological basis for their right to rule. That could be interpreted a number of ways. Verrry interesting.

Thanks for the welcome KChan! I didnt even think about the Thrill being related to this, but I think you guys might be right about it. You rarely see it mentioned not in relation to a Shardbearer. The other character that you see in battle, Kaladin, doesnt experience lust and joy of battle, only regret and only the need to protect and defend his men. That strikes me as very honorable. When he finds himself cutting down the Parshendi he feels respect for them and regret but does not enjoy it. This makes me think of what you mention, dionysus, as "the Alethi way". What promoted this way of thinking? Of doing whatever it took to gain an advantage over your enemy, even if that meant betraying an alliance and stabbing someone in the back (Sadeas). Of constantly seeking wars over simple border disputes among Highprinces that are supposed to be of the same nation. I think it all comes back to the lighteyes and Odium's corruption. Lighteyes feel the Thrill and constantly seek combat. There are plenty of textual examples of differences in personality and behavior between light and dark eyed people. Off the top of my head I remember a sequence between Kaladin and his father Lirin just after Roshone and his son get mauled by the whitespine. Lirin says regarding lighteyes, "If you cant kill men, you kill beasts. Well this is what you found, Roshone". I dont think its the same with every light eyed person, obviously Dalinar and his camp are good. But the majority of them are not. Maybe Odium found that lighteyes were easily corruptible and used them to sow discord throughout Roshar after Alethela was destroyed in the last desolation. Dalinar mentions the Way of Kings and why some in Alethkar think it is blasphemous - it suggests that dark eyed people are above light eyed in station. I think they are inherently more honorable. It comes back to the WoK and honor. What was Dalinar before he encountered the book? A self-proclaimed tyrant and force of death that wanted to kill his own brother for his wife. Finding honor might be what transforms men. That might be the difference between Surgebinders and Windrunners and what men have to find or be taught so that the Knights Radiant can come again and men stand united for the Final Desolation. Unite them. hahaha. Of course I might be way off base! Is the second book out yet? lol

Hello All, First post. I hope you can suffer any reiterations I make in this post and apologize in advance if any, in fact, do occur. I just finished my third read through of the wonderfully realized Way of Kings and something that Syl said struck me as I finished the book, specifically this sequence: Kaladin: "Dare I trust him?" Syl: "He's a good man. I've watched him. Despite that thing he carried." Kaladin: "That thing?" Syl: "The Shardblade." K: "What do you care about it?" Syl: "I dont know. It just feels wrong to me. I hate it. Im glad he got rid of it. Makes him a better man." This struck me as odd. Syl is an honorspren, presumably bound to the Radiants of old, carried, of all things, Shardblades. I dont assume to know her feelings towards the former blades, but the blade was used against the Voidbringers and as a source for good, there is no reason she should have such a strong negative reaction to the weapon, so what is it? There are numerous other instances throughout the text where the nature of the blades men currently carry is called into question. After Dalinar's vision of the day of recreance, he sees all the Radiants abandon plate and blade, yet there are so many of them and so few blades to account for this day and age. Are those blades simply lost, or something else entirely? In Dalinar's final vision the Almighty says: "Speak again the ancient oaths and return to men the Shards they once bore." Now this quote could mean the Dawnshards, or since this is a quote we connect with the Knights Radiant, could mean the shardblades they once carried. It is possible the noble characteristics in man are what will allow these shards to return. However, I propose this, perhaps the shards currently possessed by men are inherently evil, shards from Odium, meant only to divide and destroy men. Perhaps in the last desolation as the Almighty says, "Your legends say that you won. But the truth is that we lost. And we are losing." Odium won. When we think of the Knights Radiant betraying mankind, it may have been due to Odium's influence and when men picked up the shards left behind by the Radiants (which lost their stormlight), we see they begin slaughtering one another for possession of one. This is exactly what Odium wants and what his influence would inspire. That is why Dalinar, according to Syl, is a better man for having given the blade up. Someone who speaks the oaths, who possesses honor and who is inherently good must bring the true shardblades/plate back to mankind so they can fight back when the true desolation comes. As others have mentioned Szeth cannot lash himself while in plate, while the Radiants of old, who fought for good, clearly could. These are the reasons why I think that the blades/plate of old are different from those currently on Roshar. Anyway, its something to chew on while we await the next installment of this excellent series!